What the **** is wrong with some of our colleagues?!

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I'm a psychiatrist. I'd echo what others have said, that other MDs don't really know what other specialties do. When did this anesthesiologist last do emergency medicine, 1st year residency for 4 weeks?

I'd wager there are some unconscious parent child dynamics playing out here, with a surgeon father, and an anesthesiologist daughter. She can now finally show the family she's a real doctor, just like her dad, and help out with an acute medical problem. Of course she's grossly ill equipped to do this because her day to day is putting people to sleep and waking them up without killing them....not exactly a useful skill in the realm of urgent care or emergency medicine. Her demands to have the ED doc leave the code, is really her saying "see dad, I'm good enough and I love you."

Or maybe anesthesiologists are just jerks.
I usually don't @#$% on other specialties of medicine. Disclaimer, I'm an anesthesiologist. But you have no idea what you're talking about. The closest specialty to critical care and emergency medicine is anesthesiology. There's bad apples in every specialty, but your comment is just straight up non-sense.

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I usually don't @#$% on other specialties of medicine. Disclaimer, I'm an anesthesiologist. But you have no idea what you're talking about. The closest specialty to critical care and emergency medicine is anesthesiology. There's bad apples in every specialty, but your comment is just straight up non-sense.
Wut. IM is way more close to EM than anesthesia. Hell, even ortho has more in common with much of EM than anesthesia. There is almost no scenario where an anesthesiologist is going to be taking care of an undifferentiated sick patient.
 
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Wut. IM is way more close to EM than anesthesia. Hell, even ortho has more in common with much of EM than anesthesia. There is almost no scenario where an anesthesiologist is going to be taking care of an undifferentiated sick patient.
I think critically ill patients = lots of EM & anesthesia overlap.

Most everything else = Family medicine without an appointment, copay, or follow up.
 
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Wut. IM is way more close to EM than anesthesia. Hell, even ortho has more in common with much of EM than anesthesia. There is almost no scenario where an anesthesiologist is going to be taking care of an undifferentiated sick patient.
I think the disconnect is that anesthesiology and emergency medicine have lots of overlap in terms of resuscitating the hemodynamically unwell, but almost none in terms of rapid diagnosis and treatment of inciting pathology.

So, you're both wrong ;)
 
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I would take an IM in this case over an anesthesiologist any day. Nothing in OPs message screams of Critical care.
 
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OP, I could never do what you do so please take this in the manner it’s meant. You might want to reflect on your choice to delay the physician assessment of Dad for the purpose of flexing your authority on the daughter. He didn’t really deserve to have a triage nurse become his physician because the daughter behaved poorly. You and he are lucky those 20 min didn’t matter. IMO, just go see dad and have security tow the car.
 
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OP, I could never do what you do so please take this in the manner it’s meant. You might want to reflect on your choice to delay the physician assessment of Dad for the purpose of flexing your authority on the daughter. He didn’t really deserve to have a triage nurse become his physician because the daughter behaved poorly. You and he are lucky those 20 min didn’t matter. IMO, just go see dad and have security tow the car.
Triage nurses do these assessments for us hundreds of times a day, she’s not playing doctor, she’s doing her job, there was no luck about this. The daughter was Also the one who reported he was asymptomatic currently. He ain’t getting tPA regardless with an exam so subtle his daughter can’t even tell he has symptoms. A delay of 20 minutes means nothing. Most patients wait much longer for a formal assessment, and I had many other patients still waiting to be seen that matter just as much as he did.
 
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Triage nurses do these assessments for us hundreds of times a day, she’s not playing doctor, she’s doing her job, there was no luck about this. The daughter was Also the one who reported he was asymptomatic currently. He ain’t getting tPA regardless with an exam so subtle his daughter can’t even tell he has symptoms. A delay of 20 minutes means nothing. Most patients wait much longer for a formal assessment, and I had many other patients still waiting to be seen that matter just as much as he did.
I completely agree that the OP had enough information to let the patient wait 20 min, and that @Gastrapathy is incorrect that the op was "lucky". The OP is an EM doc and thus could tell from a seed of a nugget of an H&P whether minutes mattered.

That said, thinking about the "choice to delay the physician assessment of Dad for the purpose of flexing your authority" is good advice.

Almost every time I try and "put someone in their place" it works out less well than I'd like.
 
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Perhaps I missed the comment about other patients in the OP (either that or it was a subsequent edit). I didn’t quote your OP because I thought you might want it to go away. Pretty specific details and all.
Regardless, this is your forum and you do you.
 
Perhaps I missed the comment about other patients in the OP (either that or it was a subsequent edit). I didn’t quote your OP because I thought you might want it to go away. Pretty specific details and all.
Regardless, this is your forum and you do you.
Not sure why you keep throwing out subtle jabs. Insinuating I edited a post to prove you wrong (the bottom of the post tells you exactly when it was edited) and thinking I "might want it to go away" (there's no identifying information, and I don't really care if the anesthesiologist reads this). How about you just state "whoops, missed that part about other patients" and move along? Seems pretty petty, but "you do you".
 
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It was believable until

“What’s aphasia and dysarthria? Like slurred speech?”

Edit: oh so my theory is that she is a crna calling herself anesthesiologist. Now it makes sense. No doctor asks what aphasia and dysarthria are. *Case closed* 😎
 
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It was believable until

“What’s aphasia and dysarthria? Like slurred speech?”

Edit: oh so my theory is that she is a crna calling herself anesthesiologist. Now it makes sense. No doctor asks what aphasia and dysarthria are. *Case closed* 😎
There are a couple of M.D. physicians in my area I would like to introduce you to ....
 
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It was believable until

“What’s aphasia and dysarthria? Like slurred speech?”

Edit: oh so my theory is that she is a crna calling herself anesthesiologist. Now it makes sense. No doctor asks what aphasia and dysarthria are. *Case closed* 😎
OP said she had a physician badge.
 
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OP said she had a physician badge.
Could be a cathopathic physician…

“A colleague recently sent me a link to the American College of Cathopathic Physicians a new organization whose mission “is to protect the professional autonomy and advocate for a full, broad scope of practice for DNPs as a‘cathopathic physician’ completely equal in every way to our MD and DO counterparts”

Yup, cathopathic physician.
 
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Could be a cathopathic physician…

“A colleague recently sent me a link to the American College of Cathopathic Physicians a new organization whose mission “is to protect the professional autonomy and advocate for a full, broad scope of practice for DNPs as a‘cathopathic physician’ completely equal in every way to our MD and DO counterparts”

Yup, cathopathic physician.
I doubt a hospital would give one of those charlatans an MD badge lol
 
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I reread "see you next tuesday" like three or four times before it clicked.

The best part was on the second read through where I had the right idea figured out about 75% of the way, but was missing that last 25% and went "what does sunt mean?"

Any further exploration of my enjoyment of figuring that out would likely violate ToS of the website. Enjoyed the story. Particularly enjoyed that you remembered that "VIPs" should always be treated like "you and me's". Both to put them in their place a bit and to remember that the regular people SHOULD be getting the same quality as some doctor's father.
 
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I reread "see you next tuesday" like three or four times before it clicked.

The best part was on the second read through where I had the right idea figured out about 75% of the way, but was missing that last 25% and went "what does sunt mean?"

Any further exploration of my enjoyment of figuring that out would likely violate ToS of the website. Enjoyed the story. Particularly enjoyed that you remembered that "VIPs" should always be treated like "you and me's". Both to put them in their place a bit and to remember that the regular people SHOULD be getting the same quality as some doctor's father.
Maybe it's post night-shift delirium, but defnitely feeling "sunt" and adding it to my lexicon.
 
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Did you offer her a turkey sammich?

Seriously, sounds like you handled it a lot better than I would have or have done in the past. My last encounter with a physician acting like this resulted in security taking his badge away so he couldn't swipe in and out of different pods in the ER. Then he was asked to be removed from the ER when he cursed at one of the nurses. He nearly lost his privileges over that. In order to maintain his privileges, the VPMA at the time made him come to the ER and apologize to every person he interacted with on multiple days to accommodate their schedules. I must have seen this pompous doc in the ED 10 times to come by and apologize to 1 or 2 nurses each day.
 
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Did you offer her a turkey sammich?

Seriously, sounds like you handled it a lot better than I would have or have done in the past. My last encounter with a physician acting like this resulted in security taking his badge away so he couldn't swipe in and out of different pods in the ER. Then he was asked to be removed from the ER when he cursed at one of the nurses. He nearly lost his privileges over that. In order to maintain his privileges, the VPMA at the time made him come to the ER and apologize to every person he interacted with on multiple days to accommodate their schedules. I must have seen this pompous doc in the ED 10 times to come by and apologize to 1 or 2 nurses each day.


So you mean sometimes admins actually get it right?
 
I'm sorry, are you sure she's not a CRNA playing "Anesthesiologist"? Cause the other day I had a Doctorate CRNA introduced themselves as Nurse Anesthesiologist...
 
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This particular person was an "Instagram influencer" too so it's all over their page...Nurse Anesthesiologist...and does Tik Tok shoots in the hospital.
 
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This particular person was an "Instagram influencer" too so it's all over their page...Nurse Anesthesiologist...and does Tik Tok shoots in the hospital.
The hospital probably doesn't want them to do that.
 
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The entire concept of PLPs passing themselves off as physicians is a blight on the integrity of medicine.
True. I only involved myself in one PLP case today. It took me 30 seconds to override their plan and save a knee. Oh well. Why am I not expert witnessing against these charlatans?
 
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The entire concept of PLPs passing themselves off as physicians is a blight on the integrity of medicine.
Thought I’d heard all the acronyms but PLP is a new one. Without googling, is it:

Practice level providers, provider level practitioners, practitioner level providers, physician level practitioners, physician level providers..?

you’d really think between APP/APC/MLP(shudder)/PA/NP/APN/MSN etc they’d have it figured out lol.
 
Thought I’d heard all the acronyms but PLP is a new one. Without googling, is it:

Practice level providers, provider level practitioners, practitioner level providers, physician level practitioners, physician level providers..?

you’d really think between APP/APC/MLP(shudder)/PA/NP/APN/MSN etc they’d have it figured out lol.
Pretend level providers
 
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True. I only involved myself in one PLP case today. It took me 30 seconds to override their plan and save a knee. Oh well. Why am I not expert witnessing against these charlatans?
I had one miss an open fracture a couple of shifts ago. Then when I had her call ortho, she neglected to tell them that it was open.
 
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So below is a bizarre interaction I had with an anesthesiologist who is the daughter of a pt of mine.

So working a relatively normal shift, when I get word from my charge nurse that a doctor has parked in the ambulance bay reserved for priority 1 EMS and has wheeled in their father through this entrance demanding he be seen immediately by our “stroke team”. I ask the nurse if he has any deficits, which she replies “lol, no, the report she gave was that he was confused and now he is back to normal.”

They put him in one of our back rooms rather than putting him in one of our resus bays, which I am told infuriates her more.

So I purposely wait 20 minutes to see them because I want to establish that she will be seen on my time, not hers, also I had other pts to evaluate, as well.

I finally walk into the room to see this incredibly pleasant 80yo who is smiling at me as I walk in, and his 40 yo Karen of a daughter with her MD badge on that is pacing back and forth in the room.

I introduce myself to both of them and I quickly and thoroughly perform a full neuro exam that my med school neurologists would be proud of, sans tuning fork. Of course it is all normal.

The story is 40 minutes prior to arrival he began to have some word finding issues (while pt interjects “I was looking for my damn computer, but I briefly couldn’t remember what the name for computer was”.) He also apparently forgot the name of one of his grandsons (“I always forget his name” he interjects again). Because of this, his wife called their daughter who told them to rush him to the ER 30 minutes away from them (bypassing numerous ERs on the way), so that she has access to the hospital he goes to. This confusion episode lasts all of 10 minutes. He does have a hx CAD and HTN, so a CVA/TIA workup isn’t completely unreasonable, given I was not there when he was reportedly symptomatic.

I then state “I understand you are concerned for a CVA, you can rest assured that it is very unlikely he had a stroke based on the reported symptoms, the length of symptoms, and his current exam. Certainly TIA is possible, however, nothing that has been reported seems to be focal. I think it also could be delirium from something like medications or infectio…”

“ITS NOT DELIRIUM!!!”

“I’m not saying this is my definitive diagnosis, I’m just giving you my differential, and mild delirium can frequently presen…”

“I’M A DOCTOR, I KNOW WHAT DELIRIUM IS, THIS IS NOT DELIRIUM!! HE’S NOT SUNDOWNING, HE DOESNT HAVE DEMENTIA, HOW IS THIS CONSISTENT WITH DELIRIUM? His symptoms were ACUTE!”

“Ma’am, delirium typically presents acutely, I think you are confusing dementia with delirium.

“I ALREADY TOLD YOU IM A DOCTOR, I KNOW WHAT DELIRIUM IS! WHERE IS THE STROKE TEAM!?”

“You’re looking at it, and like I have already stated, he is not currently having a stroke. I think we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves, however, regarding diagnoses. I plan to get some cerebral imaging and some labs and we will reassess things in a bit. Now tell me, did he have any additional neuro findings at home like dysarthria, receptive aphasia, ataxia, facial droop, etc.?

“What’s aphasia and dysarthria? Like slurred speech?”

“Well dysarthria is slurred speech, yes. Aphasia is difficulty with communicating that comes in a receptive and expressive variety.”

“Well I wasn’t home with him, my mother was, she’s the one that drove him here, I just met them in the ambulance bay.”

“Okay, well how about we have you switch out with your mother, so I can get the story from her.”

“No, as a physician, I have more understanding of medicine and should be here with him instead of my mother. You can talk to her over the phone though.”

“What kind of doc are you again?”

“Anesthesiologist”

I proceed to give a not so subtle nod and a long and telling glance over to the pt’s nurse who knows me well and knows I am seconds away from breaking my currently civil demeanor.

I then speak with the pt’s wife (also very pleasant like the pt) over the phone who describes a very minimally concerning story, that doesn’t really sound anything like a TIA or CVA, but occasionally they present abnormally, so I’m not going to protest doing a TIA workup.

About 30 minutes later, a cardiac arrest comes in. The pt’s nurse finds me as I’m walking over to the cardiac arrest pt to tell me that the daughter is demanding to know what the pt’s ECG demonstrated (she says while rolling her eyes and says she’ll make sure the daughter knows I’m in a code).

I get ROSC back after about 15 minutes but still trying to get the pt stabilized. The nurse comes back to just give me a heads up that the daughter would like me to step out of the code to talk to her, which the nurse already informed the daughter I would not do (nurse mainly just telling me to vent).

Another 20 minutes go by as I’m placing lines. And getting the pt stable enough for scans, the pt’s nurse comes back to inform me the daughter is now demanding I step out to give her an update. The nurse then told the daughter that unless her dad is coding, he is not currently my first priority. I told the nurse that if she demands one more time for me to step out of a dying pt’s room, to have security escort her out of the ER.

I finally get this pt stable enough where I feel comfortable leaving his bedside. I decide rather than immediately going to see the daughter, I’m going to make her wait. So I make her wait another 30 minutes when all the work up is finally back, so I can go in there one more time and never step back in that room again.

I did not apologize for the delay. I let her know that he will be admitted to complete his TIA workup (mainly because I didn’t want to deal with the fight of discharging him) and that everything is normal so far. She asked that I make sure I get his MRI immediately which I told her would not happen. She then asked that a neurologist come and see him right now (at 11pm) which I told her also would not happen. She then left in a huff and switched out with her mother, who was an amazingly sweet lady. I don’t know how such wonderful people have such a “see you next Tuesday” of an offspring.

This is certainly not the first time I’ve dealt with ridiculous physician colleagues as a family member of a patient, but this was probably the most absurd. I never would have expected a ****ing doctor to be the one to demand I step out of a ****ing code to update them on their asymptomatic family member.

Sorry for the long post, I just needed an outlet to vent.
Doctors make for terrible patients/interlopers and patients make for terrible doctors.
 
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I'm a psychiatrist. I'd echo what others have said, that other MDs don't really know what other specialties do. When did this anesthesiologist last do emergency medicine, 1st year residency for 4 weeks?

I'd wager there are some unconscious parent child dynamics playing out here, with a surgeon father, and an anesthesiologist daughter. She can now finally show the family she's a real doctor, just like her dad, and help out with an acute medical problem. Of course she's grossly ill equipped to do this because her day to day is putting people to sleep and waking them up without killing them....not exactly a useful skill in the realm of urgent care or emergency medicine. Her demands to have the ED doc leave the code, is really her saying "see dad, I'm good enough and I love you."

Or maybe anesthesiologists are just jerks.
It all comes out in the ER…even the “you told me you weren’t stripping anymore!” In front of the whole family
 
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Wow! After perusing this thread i think i would wear a mini recorder/wire if i were an er doc just to protect myself when Karen bitches to admin. Delete all PMI from recording and just keep the inappropriate ranting.
 
Wow! After perusing this thread i think i would wear a mini recorder/wire if i were an er doc just to protect myself when Karen bitches to admin. Delete all PMI from recording and just keep the inappropriate ranting.
Illegal in 11 states from a wiretapping statute alone. Additional laws may apply given the inherently "privileged" nature of the conversation between patient and lawyer, though IDK, I'm not a lawyer.

That said, I've certainly given thought to it for the reasons you've stipulated above.
 
Illegal in 11 states from a wiretapping statute alone. Additional laws may apply given the inherently "privileged" nature of the conversation between patient and lawyer, though IDK, I'm not a lawyer.

That said, I've certainly given thought to it for the reasons you've stipulated above.
Why hide it? Whenever a patient asks to record our visit, I reply "as long as you don't mind me recording it as well". Never had anyone say no.

You can just walk into the room and lead with "this interaction will be recorded for training and quality assurance purposes". If insurance companies can get away with it on P2P calls, no reason to think it doesn't meet HIPAA muster. Your employer might fire you for it, but, whatever.
 
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Illegal in 11 states from a wiretapping statute alone. Additional laws may apply given the inherently "privileged" nature of the conversation between patient and lawyer, though IDK, I'm not a lawyer.

That said, I've certainly given thought to it for the reasons you've stipulated above.

Well, that is a big part of why I did pathology( retired 2013).
After ~ 3 years of post med school exposure/practice of clinical medicine I just could not tolerate many, many patients actions, for lack of a better word.
 
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Well, that is a big part of why I did pathology( retired 2013).
After ~ 3 years of post med school exposure/practice of clinical medicine I just could not tolerate many, many patients actions, for lack of a better word.

The number one cause of burnout is...
 
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Why I prefer nights with ventilated pt. Minimal family discussions, patients are unconconscious, minimal admin people around. Do my thing, hide in the office, avoid drama.

Sounds kinda like being a pathologist except that is the daytime environment.
 
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So below is a bizarre interaction I had with an anesthesiologist who is the daughter of a pt of mine.

So working a relatively normal shift, when I get word from my charge nurse that a doctor has parked in the ambulance bay reserved for priority 1 EMS and has wheeled in their father through this entrance demanding he be seen immediately by our “stroke team”. I ask the nurse if he has any deficits, which she replies “lol, no, the report she gave was that he was confused and now he is back to normal.”

They put him in one of our back rooms rather than putting him in one of our resus bays, which I am told infuriates her more.

So I purposely wait 20 minutes to see them because I want to establish that she will be seen on my time, not hers, also I had other pts to evaluate, as well.

I finally walk into the room to see this incredibly pleasant 80yo who is smiling at me as I walk in, and his 40 yo Karen of a daughter with her MD badge on that is pacing back and forth in the room.

I introduce myself to both of them and I quickly and thoroughly perform a full neuro exam that my med school neurologists would be proud of, sans tuning fork. Of course it is all normal.

The story is 40 minutes prior to arrival he began to have some word finding issues (while pt interjects “I was looking for my damn computer, but I briefly couldn’t remember what the name for computer was”.) He also apparently forgot the name of one of his grandsons (“I always forget his name” he interjects again). Because of this, his wife called their daughter who told them to rush him to the ER 30 minutes away from them (bypassing numerous ERs on the way), so that she has access to the hospital he goes to. This confusion episode lasts all of 10 minutes. He does have a hx CAD and HTN, so a CVA/TIA workup isn’t completely unreasonable, given I was not there when he was reportedly symptomatic.

I then state “I understand you are concerned for a CVA, you can rest assured that it is very unlikely he had a stroke based on the reported symptoms, the length of symptoms, and his current exam. Certainly TIA is possible, however, nothing that has been reported seems to be focal. I think it also could be delirium from something like medications or infectio…”

“ITS NOT DELIRIUM!!!”

“I’m not saying this is my definitive diagnosis, I’m just giving you my differential, and mild delirium can frequently presen…”

“I’M A DOCTOR, I KNOW WHAT DELIRIUM IS, THIS IS NOT DELIRIUM!! HE’S NOT SUNDOWNING, HE DOESNT HAVE DEMENTIA, HOW IS THIS CONSISTENT WITH DELIRIUM? His symptoms were ACUTE!”

“Ma’am, delirium typically presents acutely, I think you are confusing dementia with delirium.

“I ALREADY TOLD YOU IM A DOCTOR, I KNOW WHAT DELIRIUM IS! WHERE IS THE STROKE TEAM!?”

“You’re looking at it, and like I have already stated, he is not currently having a stroke. I think we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves, however, regarding diagnoses. I plan to get some cerebral imaging and some labs and we will reassess things in a bit. Now tell me, did he have any additional neuro findings at home like dysarthria, receptive aphasia, ataxia, facial droop, etc.?

“What’s aphasia and dysarthria? Like slurred speech?”

“Well dysarthria is slurred speech, yes. Aphasia is difficulty with communicating that comes in a receptive and expressive variety.”

“Well I wasn’t home with him, my mother was, she’s the one that drove him here, I just met them in the ambulance bay.”

“Okay, well how about we have you switch out with your mother, so I can get the story from her.”

“No, as a physician, I have more understanding of medicine and should be here with him instead of my mother. You can talk to her over the phone though.”

“What kind of doc are you again?”

“Anesthesiologist”

I proceed to give a not so subtle nod and a long and telling glance over to the pt’s nurse who knows me well and knows I am seconds away from breaking my currently civil demeanor.

I then speak with the pt’s wife (also very pleasant like the pt) over the phone who describes a very minimally concerning story, that doesn’t really sound anything like a TIA or CVA, but occasionally they present abnormally, so I’m not going to protest doing a TIA workup.

About 30 minutes later, a cardiac arrest comes in. The pt’s nurse finds me as I’m walking over to the cardiac arrest pt to tell me that the daughter is demanding to know what the pt’s ECG demonstrated (she says while rolling her eyes and says she’ll make sure the daughter knows I’m in a code).

I get ROSC back after about 15 minutes but still trying to get the pt stabilized. The nurse comes back to just give me a heads up that the daughter would like me to step out of the code to talk to her, which the nurse already informed the daughter I would not do (nurse mainly just telling me to vent).

Another 20 minutes go by as I’m placing lines. And getting the pt stable enough for scans, the pt’s nurse comes back to inform me the daughter is now demanding I step out to give her an update. The nurse then told the daughter that unless her dad is coding, he is not currently my first priority. I told the nurse that if she demands one more time for me to step out of a dying pt’s room, to have security escort her out of the ER.

I finally get this pt stable enough where I feel comfortable leaving his bedside. I decide rather than immediately going to see the daughter, I’m going to make her wait. So I make her wait another 30 minutes when all the work up is finally back, so I can go in there one more time and never step back in that room again.

I did not apologize for the delay. I let her know that he will be admitted to complete his TIA workup (mainly because I didn’t want to deal with the fight of discharging him) and that everything is normal so far. She asked that I make sure I get his MRI immediately which I told her would not happen. She then asked that a neurologist come and see him right now (at 11pm) which I told her also would not happen. She then left in a huff and switched out with her mother, who was an amazingly sweet lady. I don’t know how such wonderful people have such a “see you next Tuesday” of an offspring.

This is certainly not the first time I’ve dealt with ridiculous physician colleagues as a family member of a patient, but this was probably the most absurd. I never would have expected a ****ing doctor to be the one to demand I step out of a ****ing code to update them on their asymptomatic family member.

Sorry for the long post, I just needed an outlet to vent.
Very devoted daughter, very lousy peer.
 
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Why I prefer nights with ventilated pt. Minimal family discussions, patients are unconconscious, minimal admin people around. Do my thing, hide in the office, avoid drama.

I prefer nights but my circadian rhythm doesn’t :/
 
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