What stereotypes apply to UCLA?

[R_C_Hutchinson]

so im an undergrad bruin, and i hear plenty of things from east coasters about how they view UCB, stanford etc.
just out of blind curiosity, what does everyone think/have heard about UCLA?
I personally love this school, but i'd like to know the kind of preconceptions people may have about me or my school if i go and interview at an east coast school.
don't worry, i wont get mad; good or bad, i'm dying to hear it

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[28129]

UCLA conjures up images of dumb jocks who never go to class (as with any other big state school), and rich girls who take acting classes in hopes that they'll make it big in Hollywood someday.

 

[Eraserhead]

i got the same impression when i toured and then turned them down for undergrad... but med school is very different i'm sure. LA conjures this image in general though, not really me but it might be good for you.... and it is just a stereotype of course.

 

[TTSD]

Mmmmm... UCLA girls... *drool*

UCLA is a very very large school so of course you have a wide representation of people. And not all of them will be science nerds.

 

[sanoge7]

Originally posted by TTSD
And not all of them will be science nerds. [/B]

but most of them will be.

 

[Brickhouse]

I went to undergrad at UCLA and now I work at the hospital. the hospital is number 3 in the nation. UCLA is extremely competitive now as far as undergrads, and a lot of graduate programs are in the top ten, as well.

That being said, if this whole med school thing doesn't work out, I'm gonna take my blonde self to Hollywood an be an actor.

lol, j/k

 

[Street Philosopher]

UCLA is the finest school in the country and in the world and in history. Its medical admissions committee is one of the worst, however.

 

[dookbloo]

yeah but hes asking about steretypes. all i have to say is OC. if it makes you feel any better, im from tx. yeehaw.

 

[Eraserhead]

what's wrong with the ad comm? you mean they are really slow?

 

[jlee9531]

Berkeley rules!

but for some reason they think of us as flag/bra burning students who have no respect for authority that like to think for our liberal selves...


now where can i dump these ashes....







"If you are bored with Berkeley, then you are bored with life" Clark Kerr.

 

[indiamacbean]

When I interviewed at UCLA med last year, my interviewer (who was the biggest a** I had to deal with all season) made the interesting comment that many of the members of UCLA Med admissions committee are hesitant about admitting their own students because of how competitive the premed atmosphere is. Granted the guy was pretty full of himself and on a power trip but I still thought that it was a sort of disturbing comment. Being from Berkeley, I think that UCLA is a great school but LA isn't where it's at for me.

--PittMed2007--

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

I applied to UCLA for undergrad and got an acceptance..and then turned it down once I got the big packet from Berkeley. The general stereotype about UCLA is that its full of dumb jocks and lots of rich, hot valley girls (the "hot" part really is not true...after staying with friends in Reiber Hall at UCLA for X number of nights throughout freshman year...UCLA girls really aren't as hot as the rumors would like you to believe...if you have an Asian fetish..I suppose you could indulge yourself at UCLA). I think UCLA's reputation in academics is mostly localized to just the west coast...lots of the out-of-staters I've spoken to here (at berkeley) said that they didn't even bother applying to UCLA because they didn't really think it had a good reputation for academics. The US News academic reputation score comfirms this...the reason UCLA is thought of as a "selective" school for undergrad is because it gets the MOST applications for undergraduate admission than any other school in the nation...it's the most "applied to" school in the country. However, this doesn't necessarily correlate to the quality of students there or to the academic quality of the school overall..the SAT average for the freshman pool at UCLA is well below the SAT average for the freshman class at all of the Ivies, Berkeley, Univ. of Chicago, Duke, Northwestern, Emory, and a slew of other schools as well. I do agree that the Geffen School of Medicine is one of the top medical schools in the country...however..I don't think the undergraduate school is "prestigious" at all.

 

[Brickhouse]

Originally posted by BerkeleyPremed
however..I don't think the undergraduate school is "prestigious" at all.

Thanks. Why does everyone on this site love to bash everyone elses stuff and tout their own? Have some respect.

 

[Dr. Xavier]

Why so many haters? I admit there are alot of asians at ucla, but there are alot of hot chicks of all ethnicity at ucla. And when the weather is warm like today the chics wear short shorts and bare mid drifts. Now that my friends makes for quality educations cause it is the driving force to bring my lazy butt to school. I've seen the girls at cal and let me tell you they are ether nerds or butch. There are alot of people here too who also turned down Berkeley, I'm one of them.

 

[ZanMD]

And while we're at it, what's the stereotype for OC(orange county)?

 

[PrincetonRocks]

UCLA is a fantastic school, but it's a little too big for me. I guess comming from Newport...i'm a little spoiled and I require too much attention, so Princeton does rock! Nonetheless, UCLA is definitely one of my most favorite West Coast schools. In fact, I'm probably going to end up marrying a Bruin someday

 

[R_C_Hutchinson]

Originally posted by BerkeleyPremed
I applied to UCLA for undergrad and got an acceptance..and then turned it down once I got the big packet from Berkeley. The general stereotype about UCLA is that its full of dumb jocks and lots of rich, hot valley girls (the "hot" part really is not true...after staying with friends in Reiber Hall at UCLA for X number of nights throughout freshman year...UCLA girls really aren't as hot as the rumors would like you to believe...if you have an Asian fetish..I suppose you could indulge yourself at UCLA). I think UCLA's reputation in academics is mostly localized to just the west coast...lots of the out-of-staters I've spoken to here (at berkeley) said that they didn't even bother applying to UCLA because they didn't really think it had a good reputation for academics. The US News academic reputation score comfirms this...the reason UCLA is thought of as a "selective" school for undergrad is because it gets the MOST applications for undergraduate admission than any other school in the nation...it's the most "applied to" school in the country. However, this doesn't necessarily correlate to the quality of students there or to the academic quality of the school overall..the SAT average for the freshman pool at UCLA is well below the SAT average for the freshman class at all of the Ivies, Berkeley, Univ. of Chicago, Duke, Northwestern, Emory, and a slew of other schools as well. I do agree that the Geffen School of Medicine is one of the top medical schools in the country...however..I don't think the undergraduate school is "prestigious" at all.

makes me glad i round filed that big fat berzerkely packet (even though they offered me 2000 more than UCLA did a year)

edit: hate to burst your bubble here, but UCLA average entering sat: 1285 UCB: 1300
factor in the vast number of athletes we take compared to UCB (we've won national championships in damn near every sport, unlike our nerdy little brother to the north) and UCB and UCLA are about in a dead heat SAT wise.

 

[Street Philosopher]

I also chose UCLA over Berkeley.
It was more of a lifestyle/atmosphere issue. Academically it doesn't get much better than Berkeley but I didn't want to hang around a lot of crazy people or too many geeks, or crazy geeks. Not that UCLA doesn't have its fair share of geeks either, but I thought it would be less extreme. Plus Berkeley is kind of secluded, whereas UCLA is right in LA... there's more of a chance for a crazy cult movement to develop there.

 

[JonnieQuest]

Let me just begin by saying that I turned down Berkeley, UPenn, Dartmouth and Gtown for UCLA. Why? Because it's undergraduate biology program is one of the most rigorous in the country. While Ivies and other schools may tout high SATs, they can't always claim a unbelievably strong undergraduate science curriculum combined with COUNTLESS opportunities for research and an amazing metropolis.

And OF COURSE staying at Reiber Hall your freshman year with a couple of buddies will not give you an appreciation for the really hot ladies at UCLA. It's not about the preconceived notion of looking for blonde girls in bathing suits...obviously spending a couple of nights in dorm rooms won't let you see the hot Persian chicks (because they live in much better places) or the sexy brunette girls living down the hall from me in the Sunset dorms.

UCLA kicks butt...It's fun, it's warm, it's got hot girls, it's damn challenging...what else can anybody ask for????

 

[fakeplaztiktree]

I'm a recent UCLA grad, and the choice to go there over Berkeley was an easy one. Before I got my acceptance from either school, UCLA had me over there every month for scholarship interviews. All I got from Berkeley was a video tape. In retrospect, I wish I could have given Berkeley more consideration but at the time I had no way to visit the campus. Once I got there everyone was premed, esp in my major Psychobiology. I enjoyed my time at UCLA very much (great concert scene towards which I blew most of my spending cash) but I steered clear of other premeds....too competitive and way too neurotic, just ask all my north campus friends. Some of you out there may have been the cool premed....too bad we didn't meet.

 

[UCLAstudent]

I chose UCLA over Berkeley, as well. Lots of good points were raised... I don't really have anything else to add. Go Bruins!

 

[docmemi]

recently some dr told me i wouldnt get into ucla som cause im not asian, the dr next to him then said, ya they have a weird adm process??? what the heck? any thoughts? anyone think this is true?

 

[Street Philosopher]

maybe being a trojan has something to do with it

the ucla adcom is messed up though.

 

[jbing]

.

 

[Street Philosopher]

Originally posted by jbing
there is a serious lack of intellectual curiosity among the student body. they have no concept of current events or world issues.

just not in the most intellectually stimulating environment.

I definitely agree with this!

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

Originally posted by R_C_Hutchinson
makes me glad i round filed that big fat berzerkely packet (even though they offered me 2000 more than UCLA did a year)

edit: hate to burst your bubble here, but UCLA average entering sat: 1285 UCB: 1300
factor in the vast number of athletes we take compared to UCB (we've won national championships in damn near every sport, unlike our nerdy little brother to the north) and UCB and UCLA are about in a dead heat SAT wise.

Umm...no...sorry...UCLA and Berkeley are not "in a dead heat SAT wise"...there is a large difference (statistically speaking..we're talking about an average score among thousands of students) in the SAT averages of UCLA's freshman class and Berkeley's freshman class.
UCLA's average SAT score=1264
Berkeley's average SAT score=1300 (you got that part right)
The next time you try to post stats..you might also want to research them to make sure they're valid. My evidence is posted
below..you can check the link to confirm how low UCLA's average SAT is. And no, you can't just explain away the huge difference in the average SAT scores by saying that UCLA recruits more rock dumb jocks...because Berkeley still uses affirmative action (even though its been banned in CA) and I already have links that prove that Berkeley has been accepting URMs with SATs <1000 (I think I could just fill in 'A' for all the bubbles and get higher than a 1000). If you want to see this link, just ask and its yours.

I just think there is a reason that Berkeley consistently gets ranked higher than UCLA for undergrad as well as for practically ALL graduate programs. I included a link to the National Research Council rankings of graduate programs below which are based on research output, # of citations of professors, and # of members of faculty in the National Academy of the Sciences (this is adjusted based on the size of the school).

As the people in this thread have confirmed, it's just Californians who perceive UCLA as "prestigious." No one outside of California would call UCLA a "rigorous" school. I do respect a few of UCLAs graduate programs and I think their medical school is awesome, but the undergraduate school is just not that impressive.

Average SAT for UCLA: http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/generalinfo.asp?listing=1023373&LTID=1

Average SAT for Berkeley: http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/generalinfo.asp?listing=1023370&LTID=1

To see the National Research Council rankings: http://stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/nrc41indiv.html

Thank you for using BerkeleyPremed's college guidance office...please come back and see us again soon.

 

[bakedlay]

bahhh who cares?? as far as i'm concerned, both berkeley and ucla are awesome public schools...no use comparing trivial SAT scores...c'mon

 

[Street Philosopher]

lol someone's got a chip on his shoulder

all hail berkeley the bestest public university in whole wide world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111oneoneone

happy now?

 

[pinfeathers6]

Berkeleypremed, you're funny.

I dont see what the big deal is: a 36 pt difference in SAT averages = Berkeley is a more prestigious school? I think that both Berk and UCLA are great schools, and like with any school, different programs vary in their quality at both institutions.

I also dont think the UCLA is only regionally recognized as being a good school. I'm from CT, and my mom used to teach at Columbia and she told me to go to UCLA over Berk. She told me both were recognized on the east coast as the best schools in the west (aside from Stanford) but Berk had that "Berzerkeley" reputation whereas UCLA was seen as the more conservative choice.

I had a few friends at Berk who were premeds and they complained all the time about how UCLA has more research and general premed-oriented opportunities than Berk did (with not having a Med School). For liberal arts folks, Berk may be a great school. But for premeds, I've heard otherwise.

 

[indigoblue]

ucla is awesome....

(please give me a secondary)

 

[R_C_Hutchinson]

Originally posted by BerkeleyPremed
Umm...no...sorry...UCLA and Berkeley are not "in a dead heat SAT wise"...there is a large difference (statistically speaking..we're talking about an average score among thousands of students) in the SAT averages of UCLA's freshman class and Berkeley's freshman class.
UCLA's average SAT score=1264
Berkeley's average SAT score=1300 (you got that part right)
The next time you try to post stats..you might also want to research them to make sure they're valid. My evidence is posted
below..you can check the link to confirm how low UCLA's average SAT is. And no, you can't just explain away the huge difference in the average SAT scores by saying that UCLA recruits more rock dumb jocks...because Berkeley still uses affirmative action (even though its been banned in CA) and I already have links that prove that Berkeley has been accepting URMs with SATs <1000 (I think I could just fill in 'A' for all the bubbles and get higher than a 1000). If you want to see this link, just ask and its yours.

I just think there is a reason that Berkeley consistently gets ranked higher than UCLA for undergrad as well as for practically ALL graduate programs. I included a link to the National Research Council rankings of graduate programs below which are based on research output, # of citations of professors, and # of members of faculty in the National Academy of the Sciences (this is adjusted based on the size of the school).

As the people in this thread have confirmed, it's just Californians who perceive UCLA as "prestigious." No one outside of California would call UCLA a "rigorous" school. I do respect a few of UCLAs graduate programs and I think their medical school is awesome, but the undergraduate school is just not that impressive.

Average SAT for UCLA: http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/generalinfo.asp?listing=1023373&LTID=1

Average SAT for Berkeley: http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/generalinfo.asp?listing=1023370&LTID=1

To see the National Research Council rankings: http://stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/nrc41indiv.html

Thank you for using BerkeleyPremed's college guidance office...please come back and see us again soon.

wow, so i said i wouldnt get fired up over this thread, but hell, call me a hypocrite

my advice to you, with a little pat on the head to show i care:

1. if you're going to go on a diatribe, dont be wrong. those same "but minoritys are dragging down my SAT rank" arguments apply to all UC's and indeed all competitive schools. the only reason you're crying AA is that a report was done on berkeley specifically about that topic. that doesnt mean it's unique to berkely (you guys do have a whole helluva lot more asians, who typically are hurt most by AA, guess that means I should cry that we lose more SAT average to AA?) berkeley also is no where near the scale of UCLA in most non-academic, selective majors. our gigantic, prestigeous film and theater school admits based on a performace/interview format, with nearly no weight given to SAT. given that and our much larger athlete population, i think its safe to say that UCLA's average SAT (in which you place so much value) has certain mitigating factors that berkeley's does not. I digress, however; my point is more universal. I dont want to crap on berkeley, i just dont see someone from a school so nearly identical as having a leg to stand when ripping on UCLA. I mean sheesh, why not just be a cardinal if you worship SAT scores so much? (unless someone got a little letter from the big S...)


2. don't rip on something bigger than you. im surprised you didnt learn that principle in elementary school. I love UCLA because we collectively would ostracize someone obsessed with SAT details. at UCLA you can do anything. Go party with kappa or theta and swim in 70 gorgeous women who love to have a good time all night long. Go hit the lab with wudl and maybe end up a multi-millionaire. Go volunteer in an amazing hospital. Go to a national championship game of any sport imaginable. Go be a runway model for fun or extra cash. Go waste the MCAT and throw a blowout to celebrate. Go be on TV (i've done every last one of these things). At UCLA you can do it all, and our grads are great human beings for having all these options.


here's why people still (subjectively) rank berkeley higher: historically they've been the nerdy half and we've been the party half of "Cal" (you do know that UCLA was started as the southern half of cal, dont you?) but that's changing. Prospective students now have the choice to select a great, cheap public with crappy weather and an antisocial and arguably unidimensional atmosphere or a great cheap public with fun people, great programs and a plethora of options. name recognition can only float a school so long...while we've maintained our love for life, we've also started muscling in on the serious academics game you guys are so proud of. at this point, i do think, especially in the sciences, that UCLA and Berkeley are in a dead heat, and what's more, I look at the writing on the wall see that we're on the upswing...

 

[Brickhouse]

Originally posted by BerkeleyPremed
in the SAT averages of UCLA's freshman class and Berkeley's freshman class.
UCLA's average SAT score=1264
Berkeley's average SAT score=1300 (you got that part right)
The next time you try to post stats..you might also want to research them to make sure.....

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............

 

[*hopefully*]

I choose UCLA over Berkeley as well, and if given the same choice I wouldn't have done anything differently.

The school is challenging, fun, and beautiful. But, everyone is right, the med adcoms do suck.....(just kidding, pleeease give me a secondary)

AND, being a heterosexual (some say not too fugly) asian female, I have to say, there are some very hot girls at UCLA.

 

[WuzUpDoc]

i usually try to stay out of these... but i just have to say something...

i choose berkeley over UCLA for undergrad, but it was seriously one of the hardest decisions i have ever had to make. both schools are very prestigious, regardless of what the earlier post said. for me, it came down to the fact that berkeley was closer to my family.

ucla is very selective, and one of the reasons why it's SAT may be slightly lower(and trust me, 15 pnts or 35pnts or whatever is very very slight) is that ucla has such a huge applicant pool that it can take that liberty (berkeley i think has to maintain it's reputation, so while they also like diversity, numbers are important too). also, ucla has moved up in the "ranks" in recent years with even more room to grow while berkeley has been riding on its reputation (albeit well-earned) for some time. i wouldn't be surprised if ucla surpassed berkeley in the ranks in the next 10-20 years.

also, i met many people at berkeley who were rejected by ucla and vice-versa. so it's not like one is "easier" than the other. both are selective and competitive.

personally, i think that if you are sure you are pre-med, ucla may be a better choice. the fact that the med school is right there immediately opens up so many ec opportunities in addition to a first-hand view of med school life and life in medicine. i mean, it's right there on campus with you. if, on the other hand, you are interested in public health or public policy or research for that matter, you definitely should go to berkeley. the research opps are top notch and our public health school is one of the best. in order to get clinical exposure to actual medicine, however, you have to work a bit harder to get your foot in the door.

finally, i can't exactly vouch for how it is at ucla, but at berkeley i felt like there was very little support for pre-meds. i would imagine that there would be a better support system at ucla since you have the med school faculty, advising, and the students as a resource.

if all these things are still a toss up. i think it comes down to personality fit. if you are into glitz and glamour, then ucla is great for you. if you enjoy a more earthy environment then you are a cal bear. of course neither of these statements are 100% true for everyone. so stereotypes exist for both schools, but it doesn't mean that they are all true for everyone. college is really what you make of it, and the best thing about both ucla and cal is that there is a little something of everything at both. bottom line--BOTH are GREAT places. i am glad i went to berkeley, but i still respect UCLA. you really can't go wrong with either one.

with that said... GO BEARS!

 

[jlee9531]

I only applied to 3 schools for undergrad. SD, LA, and Cal.

Got in to all 3 but it was Cal all the way. SD and LA were far too big for my taste and a bit too conservative. They are beautiful campuses with lots of great things about each school but when I went to visit each of them, I never felt the absolute excitement about being in a place than I did at Berkeley.

Sure SD and LA have the weather, but I'm not much of a fan of the sun for 90% of the year. I do enjoy the semi-seasonal changes up at Cal with the rain, fog, and sun all making their presence felt.

The girls at LA and SD are highly touted, but that doesn't mean Cal doesn't have some gems of their own .

The environment I got at Cal was a bit more independent and freeing. Not everyone loves Berkeley, more of a love it or leave it type of place. I know a good number of people who come just for the reputation and end up hating it because it did not fit their lifestyle. We're odd, loud and fight for what we believe in. Not to say others don't but the history of all this is just there at Cal.

Sure the classes are pretty damn tough and I didn't get the best of grades. Some of my friends opted not to go there just because they felt they can get better grades elsewhere, but I won't mention any names.

But even with academic difficulties, I love every aspect of this place. I love watching the fog roll in and seeing the bay from VLSB. Strawberry Creek may be toxic, but its still pretty and the sounds are very calming. I love all the action of the city, all the things that went on around you even though I should have been at home studying. And the famous Berkeley coffee spots. Strada, Milano etc...Excellent places to just chill and watch people. SF is only a moment away and it has to be one of the best cities in the US to chill, enjoy and have fun.

This might be a negative to some people but like a previous alum said...."I loved the anonymity of the place. I love being left alone, loved the absolute absense of the kind of enforced community that I so disliked, found false and sentimental and at base authoritarian, in other instituions I knew about....the freedom to fail was also the freedom to be, to make one's own way......."

My time at Cal was very special to me because the essense of the school has taught me much about my own life and the choices I have made. Not doggin UCLA or anything, its a great school...I just wouldn't have felt what I felt at Cal down here in LA.

Oh PS...our sports arent that bad. We are up and coming program. Our basketball team has reached the "Dance" for the last 2 years and of course this is nothing compared to the history UCLA has but...in that respect UCLA hasn't done much these past two years anyway. Hopefully Coach Howlin can get those showboats to actually play basketball and not NBA Jam.
Cal had the most improved team last year with a 7 win differential. This year we lost our big guns so we don't expect too much. Just a .500 season guys. But we beat USC and will beat StanfUrd and thats all that really matters.

Girls softball is getting better, rubgy is sweet etc...

so yeah. enough cal lovin for now. be back soon.

 

[DrWuStar]

Originally posted by jbing
berkeley seems to be deseprately clinging on to its old reputation of being that liberal, free-thinking school. to a very small extent it is - but don't be fooled. this isn't your hippie parents' berkeley anymore.

true true.

i did not go to either of these schools, but i lived in berkeley for two years after college, and i have to say cal students do not live up the their reputation as free thinkers, hippies, etc. the town berkeley is still pretty hip in that way, but i find the college students pretty conservative.

you can always spot them in town cause they are always dressed the same: warm up pants, flip flops whatever the season, baseball caps, cell phone attached to ear. they are not very friendly - they do not smile at anyone on the street. they choose to shop at chain stores such as safeway and the gap even though berkeley (the town) is home to many fine independently owned stores.

i don't mean to talk ****. i'm just saying that at this point, the reputation comes from the town, not the college.

 

[finnpipette]

I guess everyone's experience is different. Berkeley offered me a full ride, another UC offered me my own parking spot, in addition I got full need-based rides from all of the ivys that I applied to. UCLA offered me virtually no financial aid. If this is how UCLA treats all of their students, it's no wonder to me that UCLA does not attract many of the more competitive undergraduate applicants.

 

[JonnieQuest]

Originally posted by finnpipette
I guess everyone's experience is different. Berkeley offered me a full ride, another UC offered me my own parking spot, in addition I got full need-based rides from all of the ivys that I applied to. UCLA offered me virtually no financial aid. If this is how UCLA treats all of their students, it's no wonder to me that UCLA does not attract many of the more competitive undergraduate applicants.

Really? Hmm, I think it's interesting how some people feel that because ivies or other UCs offered them "fringe benefits" that OF COURSE UCLA should.
UCLA does indeed treat "competitive" undergraduates well. I not only got a full ride (and no, i'm not an athlete or a URM), but I also got a parking spot, computer money, AND awesome dorm rooms when I wanted them. In addition, when i wanted to stay a fifth year to pick up a double major, they completely covered that too. The thing that made me select UCLA over ivies was their science program and how they treated students they definitely wanted. It was hard to say no to its great research...people knock down UCLA but just because it's public doesn't mean that it HAS TO woo prospective students.

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

Originally posted by R_C_Hutchinson
wow, so i said i wouldnt get fired up over this thread, but hell, call me a hypocrite

my advice to you, with a little pat on the head to show i care:

1. if you're going to go on a diatribe, dont be wrong. those same "but minoritys are dragging down my SAT rank" arguments apply to all UC's and indeed all competitive schools. the only reason you're crying AA is that a report was done on berkeley specifically about that topic. that doesnt mean it's unique to berkely (you guys do have a whole helluva lot more asians, who typically are hurt most by AA, guess that means I should cry that we lose more SAT average to AA?) berkeley also is no where near the scale of UCLA in most non-academic, selective majors. our gigantic, prestigeous film and theater school admits based on a performace/interview format, with nearly no weight given to SAT. given that and our much larger athlete population, i think its safe to say that UCLA's average SAT (in which you place so much value) has certain mitigating factors that berkeley's does not. I digress, however; my point is more universal. I dont want to crap on berkeley, i just dont see someone from a school so nearly identical as having a leg to stand when ripping on UCLA. I mean sheesh, why not just be a cardinal if you worship SAT scores so much? (unless someone got a little letter from the big S...)


2. don't rip on something bigger than you. im surprised you didnt learn that principle in elementary school. I love UCLA because we collectively would ostracize someone obsessed with SAT details. at UCLA you can do anything. Go party with kappa or theta and swim in 70 gorgeous women who love to have a good time all night long. Go hit the lab with wudl and maybe end up a multi-millionaire. Go volunteer in an amazing hospital. Go to a national championship game of any sport imaginable. Go be a runway model for fun or extra cash. Go waste the MCAT and throw a blowout to celebrate. Go be on TV (i've done every last one of these things). At UCLA you can do it all, and our grads are great human beings for having all these options.


here's why people still (subjectively) rank berkeley higher: historically they've been the nerdy half and we've been the party half of "Cal" (you do know that UCLA was started as the southern half of cal, dont you?) but that's changing. Prospective students now have the choice to select a great, cheap public with crappy weather and an antisocial and arguably unidimensional atmosphere or a great cheap public with fun people, great programs and a plethora of options. name recognition can only float a school so long...while we've maintained our love for life, we've also started muscling in on the serious academics game you guys are so proud of. at this point, i do think, especially in the sciences, that UCLA and Berkeley are in a dead heat, and what's more, I look at the writing on the wall see that we're on the upswing...

I never said that all the competitive schools didn't continue to use de facto AA (and i'm sure the other UCs use it too..to a smaller extent). The difference here is an issue of DEGREE..not whether they actually use it or not. We agree that basically all top tier undergrads use AA (whether it's allowed by their state laws or not..they still do)...however...Berkeley is shameless about it. The Ivies desperately try to recruit URMs with at least DECENT SAT scores (they won't accept a URM applicant with SAT scores <900...Berkeley accepted HUNDREDS of URM applicants with SAT scores between 600 **cringe** and 1000). If you want the link for this, as always...BerkeleyPremed's College Guidance Office would be more than happy to fork it over.

LoL...no...the reason that Berkeley is ranked higher than UCLA in **insert practically ANY graduate program here** (I'm excluding the professional schools..cuz Berkeley doesn't even have a med school) is not because "historically...Berkeley was always seen as the nerdy half of Cal...and UCLA was the party half." The rankings are based on objective statistics...if the rankings were just based on someone's meaningless opinion...no one would even care about them. The US News undergraduate rankings are based on 25th-75th SAT percentiles, % of incoming freshman from top 10% of high school class, student-faculty ratio, alumni giving, academic reputation score, and a few other factors. The National Research Council rankings of graduate programs are based on objective criteria as well..such as # of citations of professors in academic journals, research output, national awards won by faculty, # of members in the National Academy of the Sciences, etc. Sorry...the rankings aren't "subjective" at all...they're VERY objective.

My favorite part about the US News rankings is their "Academic reputation score"...basically...they use something called a "Peer Assessment Survey" which is sent out to deans, academics, and researchers across the country. The survey asks them to rank all the top tier schools based on their own perception of the rigor of the school, the quality of academics there, the quality of faculty, etc (scale..1=poor...5=excellent)...this is the ONLY "subjective" factor in the rankings...and the staticians made this quantifiable by taking the averages of all the scores and reporting a score for each school called the "academic reputation score." Why does Berkeley have an academic reputation score of 4.7 while UCLA's score is..well..lower (by a pretty significant margin)? Why does UCLA consistently get ranked lower (again..by a significant margin) in practically all of their graduate programs ranked by NRC? When you find an explanation for all of this...you can talk about how the two schools are "identical" and are in a "dead heat" in the sciences, SAT scores, etc.

Thank you for using BerkeleyPremeds College Guidance office...please come back and see us again soon. (for the evidence..scroll up to where I posted the rankings)

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

Originally posted by pinfeathers6
Berkeleypremed, you're funny.

I dont see what the big deal is: a 36 pt difference in SAT averages = Berkeley is a more prestigious school? I think that both Berk and UCLA are great schools, and like with any school, different programs vary in their quality at both institutions.

I also dont think the UCLA is only regionally recognized as being a good school. I'm from CT, and my mom used to teach at Columbia and she told me to go to UCLA over Berk. She told me both were recognized on the east coast as the best schools in the west (aside from Stanford) but Berk had that "Berzerkeley" reputation whereas UCLA was seen as the more conservative choice.

I had a few friends at Berk who were premeds and they complained all the time about how UCLA has more research and general premed-oriented opportunities than Berk did (with not having a Med School). For liberal arts folks, Berk may be a great school. But for premeds, I've heard otherwise.

Umm.. That 36 point difference in the SAT averages between the freshman classes at both schools is actually significant. The difference in averages between two large sample sizes will be much more significant than the difference in averages between two tiny sample sizes. Let me break this down into smaller chunks for you so it might be easier to understand. Example 1: Student A scored 1300 on the SAT 1..Student B scored 1330..does that 30 point difference actually mean that Student B is more qualified for college admission/any more intelligent than Student A? Nope..not at all...now...Example 2: SAT scores will be averaged from a sample population of roughly 3,500 freshman students from University X and University Z...the average SAT 1 score for the students at University X is 1264. The average SAT 1 score for students at University Z is 1300. Is that 36 point difference significant because we're averaging scores for over 3,500 individuals at each university? YES.

As for your "friends at Berk" who were premed...um...I don't see how they could even make a comparison between the research opportunities at Berkeley against the research opportunities at UCLA unless they actually attended both schools. Did they take classes at both schools? I can't speak for UCLA...but I know that Berkeley has tons of undergraduate research opportunities available ..this applies to the social sciences and humanities too (not just the physical and life sciences). Just looking at the stats (academic qualifications of the freshman class, graduate program rankings, undergraduate rankings, etc...it's pretty clear which school has the edge).

 

[md_hopeful21]

some of you guys need to chill and realize that what matters the most in the end is what your application looks like infront of the adcoms not what your school looks like infront of them. some of you guys need to chill more and realize that prestige and who goes to the better school isn't the most important thing in the world, cause no matter where u go or what your stats are you'd always be wishing for more and wanting to be better.

 

[JonnieQuest]

I know I'm going to get flamed for this but BerkeleyPremed, chill out...it's undergrad. and it's not like we are comparing Harvard to Random Community College. Both schools are in the UCs, have research opportunities, are accredited, have students, etc. i think a more valid question is why you have kept up with undergraduate rankings since you last applied to schools and know so much about SAT scores? Creeps me out a little bit...

 

[Joe Joe on da Radio]

2004 US News Rankings...

Berkeley at #21
UCLA at #26

if 5 spots is the difference between "prestige" in your world, then i'd like to know what kind of crack your smoking...

 

[Dr. Xavier]

Originally posted by JonnieQuest
BerkeleyPremed, chill out...it's undergrad. why you have kept up with undergraduate rankings since you last applied to schools and know so much about SAT scores? Creeps me out a little bit...

It's because he/she doesn't get laid enough. Berkeley premed you need to get laid more often to relax your gunner a$$. You probably carry your sat, mcat scores and a copy of the u.s. news rankings w/you everywhere you go to compensate for the fact that you don't get none.

 

[JonnieQuest]

Originally posted by Dr. Xavier
It's because he/she doesn't get laid enough. Berkeley premed you need to get laid more often to relax your gunner a$$. You probably carry your sat, mcat scores and a copy of the u.s. news rankings w/you everywhere you go to compensate for the fact that you don't get none.

Dr. Xavier,
It's uncanny but we're always on "the same page." thanks for having my back, man. and the fact that he doesn't get laid enough did cross my mind but i decided that i shouldn't verbalize it, but thanks for doing everyone a favor by just having it out.

gee, now if i could only get an interview at ucla med...

 

[pinfeathers6]

BerkeleyPremed: All I can say is I hope this is all an act. Regardless of if it is or not, you are VERY condescending. I'm just not charged up enough about the undergraduate portion of the UC system in general to say that either UCLA or Berk is a "more prestigious" school (if that really matters anyway, b/c in the end YOU are the biggest factor in the quality of your education), but I think it is interesting and important to see the kind of people each school churns out. I hope you arent representative of the premedical student body at Berk, because if so, I think your very attitude bodes poorly for the reputation of your alma mater.

 

[md_hopeful21]

Originally posted by pinfeathers6
BerkeleyPremed: All I can say is I hope this is all an act. Regardless of if it is or not, you are VERY condescending. I'm just not charged up enough about the undergraduate portion of the UC system in general to say that either UCLA or Berk is a "more prestigious" school (if that really matters anyway, b/c in the end YOU are the biggest factor in the quality of your education), but I think it is interesting and important to see the kind of people each school churns out. I hope you arent representative of the premedical student body at Berk, because if so, I think your very attitude bodes poorly for the reputation of your alma mater.

If berkeley has taught me one thing it's that you shouldn't judge a group beacuse of an individual's action. And for all those bashing berkeleypremed for carrying this conversation about which is more prestigous remember that it takes 2 to carry an argument.

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by Joe Joe on da Radio
2004 US News Rankings...

Berkeley at #21
UCLA at #26

if 5 spots is the difference between "prestige" in your world, then i'd like to know what kind of crack your smoking...

Good point.

Also, to add fuel to the fire, UCSD is really good as well.

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

Originally posted by Dr. Xavier
It's because he/she doesn't get laid enough. Berkeley premed you need to get laid more often to relax your gunner a$$. You probably carry your sat, mcat scores and a copy of the u.s. news rankings w/you everywhere you go to compensate for the fact that you don't get none.

Throughout this whole thread...all I've been saying is that UCLA isn't as good as its neighbor up north..in terms of research, faculty quality...and most importantly..quality of STUDENTS...Ladies and Gentleman..I give you Exhibit A (Dr. Xavier)..need I go on?

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by BerkeleyPremed
Throughout this whole thread...all I've been saying is that UCLA isn't as good as its neighbor up north..in terms of research, faculty quality...and most importantly..quality of STUDENTS...Ladies and Gentleman..I give you Exhibit A (Dr. Xavier)..need I go on?

Actually, if we are to judge an entire school's student body based on the posts of an anonymous individual on a premed board, not only do we have serious problems, but also I think your reputation on SDN is horrible BerkeleyPremed.

I really hope this is an act, because if you really are like this in real life, you are really missing out on college. Especially considering your sig is "Get in touch with your inner gunner...because he's dying to get in touch with you."