What specialty is the best kept secret in medicine?

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Dawkter

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My nod would go to allergy/immunology. From what I hear, once you make it in this field is cush, pays well, and comes down to running a RAST test on just about every patient. The toughest part is finding a way in...

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My nod would go to allergy/immunology. From what I hear, once you make it in this field is cush, pays well, and comes down to running a RAST test on just about every patient. The toughest part is finding a way in...

I just started a preceptorship (I'm an MS1) with a gastroenterologist. Today he did a bunch of endo procedures and saw six patients in the three hours I was with him. He seemed really happy with his field, although he mentioned one downside was call.

I thought it seemed like a good practice, at least at a cursory glance. I'm really interested in working with my hands no matter where I ended up, but I fear how miserable surgery residents seem. This seemed like a good balance of procedures, clinic time, pay, and 'laidbackedness".
 
I think PMR is the best kept secret because not too many people know how non-competitive the field is but at the same time, it has a great mix of procedures, seeing patients in clinic, taking care of minor acute issues, seeing chronic patients get better, great pay, almost no call (is there any?), and hours are amazing.

If I thought the musculoskeletal system was interesting, I would have definitely considered PMR.
 
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My nod would go to allergy/immunology. From what I hear, once you make it in this field is cush, pays well, and comes down to running a RAST test on just about every patient. The toughest part is finding a way in...

There are no secrets.

Look @ the most competitive fields and/or high paying fields.
 
(1) PM&R. Non-competetive, good salary w/ good hours and minimal call. Wide variety of practice (stroke, rehab, pain management, etc.) Need to love MSK stuff though.

(2) Critical Care: Also relatively non-competitive (but getting more so), good salary and hours + no call. Need to be ok w/ high paced ICU setting and working on many futile cases where you may be hurting as much as helping.

(3) Agree with allergy and immunology. This is very competitive though due to a tiny number of spots.
 
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Cuz no one wants to do GI... :rolleyes:

I just started a preceptorship (I'm an MS1) with a gastroenterologist. Today he did a bunch of endo procedures and saw six patients in the three hours I was with him. He seemed really happy with his field, although he mentioned one downside was call.

I thought it seemed like a good practice, at least at a cursory glance. I'm really interested in working with my hands no matter where I ended up, but I fear how miserable surgery residents seem. This seemed like a good balance of procedures, clinic time, pay, and 'laidbackedness".
 
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PMR seems like it would be the ultimate lifestyle specialty, but its profile is very low. The other day, some PMR residents held an interest group meeting during lunch, and many students had never even heard of that specialty.
 
I just started a preceptorship (I'm an MS1) with a gastroenterologist. Today he did a bunch of endo procedures and saw six patients in the three hours I was with him. He seemed really happy with his field, although he mentioned one downside was call.

I thought it seemed like a good practice, at least at a cursory glance. I'm really interested in working with my hands no matter where I ended up, but I fear how miserable surgery residents seem. This seemed like a good balance of procedures, clinic time, pay, and 'laidbackedness".
GI is no secret. They make truckloads of money and don't even admit patients at my hospital (they all go to surgery or medicine).


I vote PM&R. The main physiatrist at my hospital walks around with an ear-to-ear grin most of the time.
 
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You've got less than 1/3 of those suspected of having your bread-and-butter diagnosis actually diagnosed, with game-changing innovative non-invasive therapies approaching the market, plus a litany of fascinating other ailments to face every day. You can open a dozen labs in 6 different cities and essentially collect a percentage, remote score and make as much as you want to work, or open your own center and make it what you want. Work 9-to-5 or work all day and night. Almost no emergencies to ever attend to.
 
Yeah PM&R. It's not built in many of our curricula. And it's not hot and sexy and on TV. In fact, in that recent high profile rehab of the Senator(?) who got shot. The fact that she would be spending most of her time on the rehab unit and in the years to follow as an outpatient with PM&R doc's was upstaged by the Neurosurgeons who hit it, quit it, and smiled big for the camera and lights.

Neurosurgeons are bad@ss. So no hate. But that's how secrets develop in medicine. They become unsexy. And therefore passed over.

My field of interest--Psych--has many opportunities for lifestyle and money. But not that many people want to take care of the mentally ill. So the downstream benefits of the field stay largely hidden. I think my school sends only a couple in to the psych match each year.
 
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PMr? seriously? I'd rather stab myelf with an icepick than spend my day writing 7 page H&P's documenting the littany of events from a 2 month IP admission preceding transfer to your SNF or wherever you are. You are a middle manager of OT/PT/Speech and your patient's highlight of the day is this or that guy lifted his leg or made it to the toilet on their own or surgery finally came and unplugged this guy's J-tube. You add/subtract meds and triage and get called at night on patients who fall down, get fevers, or go back and forth to dialysis and get hypotensive. Patients' families constantly come in and b&*#@ about the nurse didnt give this guy his favorite flavor of Ensure or they lost his teeth.

Mental health (if you can stand it) has to be golden cow of specialties. The training is short (4 years?) for a 9-5 job that pays OK and there is essentially NOTHING expected of you. You titrate depression/ psychosis/ ADHD meds and no one is expected to really get better. I admitted a trauma patient one evening who was shot in the shower with a shotgun by her roomate who had just been released from the IP psych ward THAT DAY. Accountability? ZERO.

Colorectal surgery if you can get passed the stigma is a great overall career. Its an interventional field so you can do procedures, with measurable benefit in many patients. It pays well, is not unduly competitive to get into and night/ emergencies are less common than other surgical specialties.
 
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I'm going to plug ENT. I think that if a lot of med students who are interested in surgical fields had early exposure to it, there would be an even larger number of applicants despite it's competitiveness. The average med student only thinks of ENT as the ear tubes and tonsillectomy people, but there's so much more to be found if you explore the field a little. Ear surgery is a very cool, there's a good mix of the delicate and big whacks, sinus surgery is very unique, plenty of thyroid/parathyroid, ect. It's a great surgical field if you hate mucking around in the abdomen like me. The call isn't terrible, and if you want to tailor your practice to be low maintenance it's certainly possible. Pay isn't too bad either.
 
PMr? seriously? I'd rather stab myelf with an icepick than spend my day writing 7 page H&P's documenting the littany of events from a 2 month IP admission preceding transfer to your SNF or wherever you are. You are a middle manager of OT/PT/Speech and your patient's highlight of the day is this or that guy lifted his leg or made it to the toilet on their own or surgery finally came and unplugged this guy's J-tube. You add/subtract meds and triage and get called at night on patients who fall down, get fevers, or go back and forth to dialysis and get hypotensive. Patients' families constantly come in and b&*#@ about the nurse didnt give this guy his favorite flavor of Ensure or they lost his teeth.

Mental health (if you can stand it) has to be golden cow of specialties. The training is short (4 years?) for a 9-5 job that pays OK and there is essentially NOTHING expected of you. You titrate depression/ psychosis/ ADHD meds and no one is expected to really get better. I admitted a trauma patient one evening who was shot in the shower with a shotgun by her roomate who had just been released from the IP psych ward THAT DAY. Accountability? ZERO.

Colorectal surgery if you can get passed the stigma is a great overall career. Its an interventional field so you can do procedures, with measurable benefit in many patients. It pays well, is not unduly competitive to get into and night/ emergencies are less common than other surgical specialties.


I think you're misrepresenting Psychiatry--especially the forensic aspect which you equate simply as a matter of accountability as if we can commit people against their will indefinitely above and beyond the law. But to stay on point of thread. With any of these it's worth it to check them out. But the benefits won't manifest if you don't have an interest. Which is why i agree about PMR--it's all about your own subjective point of view--and mine is that PMR would be very boring.

A boring secret is not such an intriguing thing.

PS. If the Psychiatry service committed any error in not predicting the precise future behavior of another human being. Or failing to ward against the probable. The courts and victims family will address it.
 
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for a 9-5 job that pays OK and there is essentially NOTHING expected of you.

This is a gross mischaracterization of the field. Nothing is expected of you? Ever deal with a patient that you've already given Haldol 100, Ativan 4 mg, Zyprexa 30 mg, and they're still running into a wall headfirst at every available opportunity?

Psychiatry certainly is not as stressful in some ways that most doctors encounter. E.g. you're hardly ever going to be dealing with a patient that is medically coding, but you can be in situations that are still very stressful such as violent patients due to psychosis or mania, being pressured to discharge a patient that you believe could be suicidal but you're not certain (they could be denying suicidal ideation simply so they could be discharged and complete the act in an unstructred setting where they could otherwise be stopped), or dealing with treatment-resistant patients who now need dosages of medications that aren't medically safe without careful monitoring (e.g. large amounts of Clozaril, Lithium might be the only medication that prevents the person from attacking others but the person has chronic kidney disease, etc.).

You also got to deal with a lot of needy people that are willing to back their demands with threats. When I was a resident I'd would've rather been doing surgery on a patient that couldn't talk back to me than a guy telling me that unless I give him Ativan he's going to cut his throat with a razor the second he's discharged.

Accountability? ZERO.

You admit a patient against their will without due cause, you're opening yourself to a possible malpractice suit. Accountability zero? Yeah, in your dreams. If you request an involuntary hospitalization for a patient in most states, you could be subpeonaed to explain your actions. In the overwhelming majority of cases with involuntary hosptilization, at least one mental health professional will be. ER docs usually don't have to worry about this because the psychiatrist who takes the case after the request is made usually takes this up. In many cases, you got a grey area situation where you're not certain if the patient is dangerous and this is stressful because you could be potentially letting someone dangerous into the community.

If you discharge a patient that does something dangerous within about a month you could be targetted in a malpractice suit for not detecting the potential for danger when you had them. If found guilty, you could be held liable for any damage done by the patient. Even if you are not sued, the hospital you're in would likely do some type of internal investigation and M&M concerning this matter.

titrate depression/ psychosis/ ADHD meds and no one is expected to really get better.

Nope. Tell me the source of your data doctor that FDA approved meds for these disorders don't get these people any better? Most insurance companies expect you to get them better within 4 days of hospitalization evidenced by them often demanding you discharge the patient even when that patient is dangerous. Scientific data shows that antidepressants do work, not well, but do on an order around 60-70% at high dosages and take a few weeks to work. Antipsychotics can work within the same day. Treatment resistant patients can be given ECT or other more invasive treatments such as Clozaril and most of those patients do get better but we psychiatrists try to avoid the more invasive options.

And if patients dont' get better and they're in the hospital insurance companies, mental health boards, consumer advocate groups, the patient's friends and family among several others will rightfully question your treatment decisions.

There are advantages in psychiatry that could make it potentially less stressful vs. other areas of medicine. E.g. less need for call, you could limit your hours more, but the situations you bring up aren't true. As for call, most places still need psychiatrists on call, just that the need isn't on the order as other fields, so you got a better chance of getting a job not requiring it.

As for psychiatry as a field in general, most medical doctors I know had no background in the behavioral sciences prior to medical school and didn't understand much about human nature in general. Most residents I knew in other fields of medicine told me they didn't understand the field and didn't think they had the knack for it. I personally find the field interesting but I was a psychology major before medical school, not the typical biochem, biology, chemistry, or engineering major you'd typically see.

To get back to the original question, the best field of medicine you want is the one that you're most passionate about balanced with the lifestyle it can offer you. I personally loved surgery, but I didn't want to be frequently woken up in the middle of the night.
 
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Rad-Onc. Most first year medical students have never even heard of it, and if they have, they have no idea what Rad-Onc does.

Interventional Radiology. People have heard of Radiology, but interventional is relatively unknown. If they have heard of it, they do not really know much about it. I am willing to bet most don't know what the following procedures are: EVAR, venous sclerotherapy, percutaneous nephrostomy, billiary stents, uterine fibroid embolizaiton, vertebroplasty, interventional oncology (eg. transarterial chemoembolization, radioembolization, drug eluting bead embos, radiofrequency ablation, cryoablation). Many IR procedures are replacing traditional medical and surgical treatments, or providing options for people when no option existed before. First and second year med students should look up TACE (transarterial chemoembolization) and tell me that doesn't sound badass.

PMR. Nobody knows what they do or even what PMR stands for.
 
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I admitted a trauma patient one evening who was shot in the shower with a shotgun by her roomate who had just been released from the IP psych ward THAT DAY. Accountability? ZERO.

Hmm, explain your reasoning that the accountability is zero. How do you know this to be true?
 
You are a middle manager of OT/PT/Speech and your patient's highlight of the day is this or that guy lifted his leg or made it to the toilet on their own or surgery finally came and unplugged this guy's J-tube.


Man, if you can't be excited that a patient that was paralyzed is able to regain some movement and thus some independence and quality of life, you're just a callous human being.
 
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PMR. Nobody knows what they do or even what PMR stands for.
Plenty of Money and Relaxation, just like ENT is Early Nights and Tennis, right? ;) More specialties need joke acronyms like this.

Pathology is supposed to be a pretty sweet gig, too, isn't it? Only too many people got wise and now it's getting harder to find a position after residency or something? That's just what I've gathered on SDN, so take it FWIW.
 
Primary Care. Seriously, a lot of primary care docs have pretty nice schedules and make great livings. Urgent care offers a pretty regular schedule, no pager and pay around 200K. Many hospitalist jobs are 7 days on and 7 off with salaries over 200K. For some reason people assume that all primary care physicians have terrible hours and terrible pay.
 
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Primary Care. Seriously, a lot of primary care docs have pretty nice schedules and make great livings. Urgent care offers a pretty regular schedule, no pager and pay around 200K. Many hospitalist jobs are 7 days on and 7 off with salaries over 200K. For some reason people assume that all primary care physicians have terrible hours and terrible pay.

lol, did you just say PC is the best kept secret in medicine?

doubletake.gif
 
REI might be nice. Urogyn and pelvic reconstruction probably have nice hours too.
 
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Primary Care. Seriously, a lot of primary care docs have pretty nice schedules and make great livings. Urgent care offers a pretty regular schedule, no pager and pay around 200K. Many hospitalist jobs are 7 days on and 7 off with salaries over 200K. For some reason people assume that all primary care physicians have terrible hours and terrible pay.

The FM that I worked with has 3 different full time practices. He works a regular 10-5 or 10-6 and appears to be doing very well for himself.
 
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Radiation Oncology

Reproductive Endocrinology

Hospice

Fight doctor?
 
Pathology is supposed to be a pretty sweet gig, too, isn't it? Only too many people got wise and now it's getting harder to find a position after residency or something? That's just what I've gathered on SDN, so take it FWIW.

This is what it seems like on SDN, but from what I've heard from attendings here, as long as you're somewhat flexible with location, not an FMG, and a generally likeable person, you shouldn't have any issues. :xf:
 
Rad-Onc. Most first year medical students have never even heard of it, and if they have, they have no idea what Rad-Onc does.

Interventional Radiology. People have heard of Radiology, but interventional is relatively unknown. If they have heard of it, they do not really know much about it. I am willing to bet most don't know what the following procedures are: EVAR, venous sclerotherapy, percutaneous nephrostomy, billiary stents, interventional oncology (eg. transarterial chemoembolization, radioembolization, drug eluting bead embos, uterine fibroid embolization, radiofrequency ablation, cryoablation). Many IR procedures are replacing traditional medical and surgical treatments, or providing options for people when no option existed before. First and second year med students should look up TACE (transarterial chemoembolization) and tell me that doesn't sound badass.

PMR. Nobody knows what they do or even what PMR stands for.

That doesn't sound badass.... It sounds BADASS.
 
Interventional Radiology.

agreed. But it's only a good secret if it remains that way... Also not too many people are keen on the hours involved as it usually isn't a 9-5 job in IR and from my experience those guys are all super busy. Maybe if you get into a cush private practice where you embolize fibroids most of your day. Def not cush in the hospital.

The future of the field is also in flux with great new therapies coming out but turf wars will be abound for sure. Turf is already an issue. Some docs just want IR for vascular access and think that's pretty much all they should do.

And unfortunately it isn't badass in the lay public because most have no idea what they do. In medicine it kinda is but the problem with it is that lots of docs I have talked to don't like IR because they don't follow patients or manage complications (I think/hope this is changing, though slowly). I have also interacted with some who are not even aware of any of the procedures you mentioned, which is a problem.



best cush job in my opinion is rad onc. Easy hours in residency, no call, high pay, etc. The field is research heavy however. Not sure how much of a secret this is though.
 
REI might be nice. Urogyn and pelvic reconstruction probably have nice hours too.

It's supposed to be very nice, though the fellowship itself is supposed to be pretty competitive. It's my top thought for a specialty but I'll be 30 when I graduate school and I'm not sure how keen I am on the notion of not being an attending until I'm nearly 38. :\
 
actually I'll add another: Reproductive medicine. Pure cush job. easy hours, get to do procedures, deal with nice people and patients wanting help, and best of all... all the pay is completely out of pocket and IVF costs about $15,000. Easiest job I've have seen yet. Sooo much money to be made.

only downside is that you have to do an obgyn residency.
 
This is what it seems like on SDN, but from what I've heard from attendings here, as long as you're somewhat flexible with location, not an FMG, and a generally likeable person, you shouldn't have any issues. :xf:

I've also been told this by both academic and PP pathologists. Although some of the path residents paint a very negative picture, in general, posters on SDN are not representative of most pre-meds/med students/residents/attendings. Most anesthesiologist I have met do not have the same visceral hatred for CRNAs and are not nearly as conservative as the posters in the gas forum
 
Best kept secret? Rads (interventional or otherwise), rad onc, and ENT are hardly a secret. Path, PM&R, REI, yeah ok.
 
PMR seems like it would be the ultimate lifestyle specialty, but its profile is very low. The other day, some PMR residents held an interest group meeting during lunch, and many students had never even heard of that specialty.

What is PM&R?
 
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PMr? seriously? I'd rather stab myelf with an icepick than spend my day writing 7 page H&P's documenting the littany of events from a 2 month IP admission preceding transfer to your SNF or wherever you are. You are a middle manager of OT/PT/Speech and your patient's highlight of the day is this or that guy lifted his leg or made it to the toilet on their own or surgery finally came and unplugged this guy's J-tube. You add/subtract meds and triage and get called at night on patients who fall down, get fevers, or go back and forth to dialysis and get hypotensive. Patients' families constantly come in and b&*#@ about the nurse didnt give this guy his favorite flavor of Ensure or they lost his teeth.

:laugh:

Your description is right on with what I have observed. So my question is why do PMR docs do so well? Everyone I know that is going into this field brags about how much they will make, but I must be missing something. What procedures do they do? I didn't think that managing PT/OT/speech could pay so well, but apparently it does. Definitely not my cup of tea, but I keep hearing good things about it.
 
Interventional Pain.

Hands down:

Bankers hours.
Good money.
Lots of procedures (spinal cord stimulators, epidurals, nerve blocks, nerve ablations, joint injections).
Virtually no call, nights, weekends or holidays.
Low stress.
Can be entered by multiple pathways (Anesthesia, PM&R, Neuro, almost any specialty)


By far, the best kept secret in Medicine, a real sleeper specialty, as opposed to Derm which is all too well know to be a great field (and therefore the worst kept secret in medicine).
 
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Interventional Pain.

Hands down:

Bankers hours.
Good money.
Lots of procedures (spinal cord stimulators, epidurals, nerve blocks, nerve ablations, joint injections).
Virtually no call, nights, weekends or holidays.
Low stress.
Can be entered by multiple pathways (Anesthesia, PM&R, Neuro, almost any specialty)


By far, the best kept secret in Medicine, a real sleeper specialty, as opposed to Derm which is all too well know to be a great field (and therefore the worst kept secret in medicine).

Definitely not the best kept secret among us gas passers as it's the most competitive fellowship.;)

Definitely a great field, but a very successful pain doc I work with says that pain has been "ridden hard and hung up wet." He says some drastic changes are coming down the pipeline, particularly with reimbursement. He says he can't accept medicare pt's without losing money now days. He also says the field has been tarnished by various non-boarded docs from multiple fields who have tried to dabble with pain. Try convincing a pt that a facet block will ease her pain after she was traumatized by an overzealous IM doc that recklessly jabbed needles in her back during an unsuccessful attempt at a facet block (without flouro). True story I witnessed as an MS3.
 
Definitely a great field, but a very successful pain doc I work with says that pain has been "ridden hard and hung up wet." He says some drastic changes are coming down the pipeline, particularly with reimbursement. He says he can't accept medicare pt's without losing money now days.

Is there any field where this ISN'T happening?
 
Sleep

You've got less than 1/3 of those suspected of having your bread-and-butter diagnosis actually diagnosed, with game-changing innovative non-invasive therapies approaching the market, plus a litany of fascinating other ailments to face every day. You can open a dozen labs in 6 different cities and essentially collect a percentage, remote score and make as much as you want to work, or open your own center and make it what you want. Work 9-to-5 or work all day and night. Almost no emergencies to ever attend to.

It's not that easy to open up a sleep lab. By the way, "scoring" is what a technician does. Sleep docs "read" or "interpret" sleep studies
 
Radiation Oncology

Reproductive Endocrinology

Hospice

Fight doctor?


I'm assuming you mean Palliative, not Hospice.

Probably not the best pay, but I hear they overall have pretty high career satisfaction. I think you have to be a certain personality type to gain that satisfaction though.
 
agreed. But it's only a good secret if it remains that way... Also not too many people are keen on the hours involved as it usually isn't a 9-5 job in IR and from my experience those guys are all super busy. .

Definitely more busy than the diagnostics, but it is an awesome field because of all the novel procedures. The other day I saw int jugular vein stenting to relieve venous congestion which is thought to play a role in MS flair ups. Also look at repair of AAA... gold standard use to be open repair, now it is EVAR, an IR procedure Check out stroke therapy in neuro-IR, it is exploding. Interventional oncology is exploding.
 
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Definitely more busy than the diagnostics, but it is an awesome field because of all the novel procedures. The other day I saw int jugular vein stenting to relieve venous congestion which is thought to play a role in MS flair ups. Also look at repair of AAA... gold standard use to be open repair, now it is EVAR, an IR procedure Check out stroke therapy in neuro-IR, it is exploding. Interventional oncology is exploding.

oh I agree 100%. Coolest field in medicine as far as I am concerned. Definitely highly considering in the future. One of my main reasons for going to radiology. The only downside I see in the field is the turf war and IR's ability to maintain its hold on these procedures. It can be done but they just cannot go and train any old doc who wants to start doing this stuff. I've seen you say that in your area IR is doing a lot of interventional cards stuff. That's awesome. Sadly that's not really the case where I am and hopefully cards doesn't start taking more and more of the peripheral stuff as well. It's hard enough as it is with vascular surgery.

not sure if this is possible but if a diagnostic radiologist sees certain things on scans I wonder if they can start referring to IR. They can at least tell the primary doc about it and start getting more patients that way. They already recommend MRI for more information after pretty much every read lol.
 
Definitely more busy than the diagnostics, but it is an awesome field because of all the novel procedures. The other day I saw int jugular vein stenting to relieve venous congestion which is thought to play a role in MS flair ups. Also look at repair of AAA... gold standard use to be open repair, now it is EVAR, an IR procedure Check out stroke therapy in neuro-IR, it is exploding. Interventional oncology is exploding.

The liberation procedure has been pretty much debunked as BS...

MCW is also pretty much the only place IR does everything. At almost every other center vascular does endovascular AAA and neurosurg is starting to do DSA/stenting/embo.
 
RadOnc. You need the board scores to get in but research can go a long way in helping if you're deficient there.
 
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