Medical What sort of help can a reapplicant expect to get out of using admissions consultants?

[Goro]

Hi,
(I have underlined my two main questions)
I am waiting on my primary to be verified but am considering consultants for secondaries and potentially interviews as well. Consultant companies like Accepted, MedSchoolCoach, Solomon, etc. boast high acceptance rates and most of these seem to involve consultants who were former admissions committee members. What specific help could I expect to get from them that I wouldn't be able to search online?


Due to the rarity of my specific situation, I might seriously need these services.
I'm a 5th time applicant; previous cycles involved interviews from low-tier schools but no acceptance. I believe main reason for my lack of success was repeatedly applying really late (Dec-Jan). I was told by a premed counselor that I'll need to send letters to schools where I've applied 3 or more times to appeal to them to reconsider me. Due to the rarity of my situation, to ensure the appeal letter is convincing, and to make certain that the secondaries are done well, I feel like these services might be a necessity for me. Do you think I would get the necessary help from hiring a consultant?

Background:
I have decent stats: 3.7+ uGPA from top 30 US school; 515+ MCAT. And have well-rounded ECs in research, clinical/nonclinical volunteering, and teaching.
And just to be clear, I have made significant additions since my last app to warrant applying this cycle: finished an accelerated 1-year master's degree (3.9+ GPA), ~300 hrs of clinical and non-clinical ECs, 2 new strong LORs, and new secondaries experiences.

Honestly, you can get great advice here on SDN for free.

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[Goro]

Work on interview skills, for starters, and have DO schools on your list.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Not sure why you would pay to get advice with a source like this.

 

[tantacles]

Just use SDN, man

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I'm sure many of our consultants which help pay the SDN operations bills are good people, know their stuff, and have some really good insights about the admissions process... at the school/s where they served. That said, I don't think a Varsity Blues-like dependence on admissions consultants is really that helpful in medical school admissions. Many of us who are experts in the Confidential Consult section have some pretty clear perspectives about the process in general.

So for some straight-up advice: you've applied five times and if you haven't already understood the importance of rolling admissions and applying early, you don't need to pay someone a few thousand dollars to help you learn. Most medical schools like to use "appeal letters" like scratch paper for recycling or shredding. If you can't even get into a DO school, something is more fundamentally wrong that you need to work on yourself more than your application. You can certainly pay someone a few thousand dollars to try to fix your profile, but this isn't like paying someone to re-format your resume or LinkedIn/social media profiles. The ROI for medical school applications for consulting services is rather limited; to me, interview feedback is probably the more valuable use of consulting, followed maybe by essay writing. But simple recon will help you identify schools to avoid (how many times did you apply? how many MCATs are on your record? how friendly/unfriendly are schools to reinventors?) and should save you hundreds of dollars, of hours stressing over secondaries or interviews, and of books on self-care to overcome any anxiety you have about the application process.

 

[lord999]

My strong guess is that you have some glaring red flag in your interviews. If you continually apply late, the free advice I would give is questioning your priorities and ability to learn from past experience. I would normally say that you would be wasting your money like my colleagues, but my question is why hurt yourself like this given such a clearly and trivially fixable issue.

 

[Goro]

Hi @Mr.Smile12, @Goro, @TheBoneDoctah, @tantacles, and @lord999, thank you very much for your advice on this thread; I apologize if I've appeared in any way dismissive of this forum or your guidance.

I agree I've blundered badly in those previous cycles for applying so late, but I truly believe I've learnt my lesson for this current cycle and plan to send my apps this cycle much earlier. And as Goro recommended, I am applying DO as well this cycle (for the first time) and plan to prepare much harder for any interviews I get. However, I also just really want to make sure I don't leave any stone in my app unturned and to ensure the way I present myself to medical schools is appropriate and convincing, at least secondaries onwards - this specifically is what I wanted to get out of the consultant services I mentioned.

So, then do you think hiring a consultant for interview prep, and potentially secondary editing, might not be a bad idea in my situation? Apologies if I'm misinterpreting what you're saying.

As for the appeal letters, do you think that's not necessary? Should I avoid applying altogether to schools where I've applied 3 or more times and focus on instead on those where I haven't applied so many times? For what it's worth, I received this appeal letter advice from a med-school-based postbac program admissions committee; specifically, they said: "you would need to be able to clearly justify continuing to apply to medical school and seek permission from those medical schools."
On the same note, if I apply this cycle to a school where I have applied 0-1 times previously, do I need to justify on my secondaries why I'm in my 5th app cycle? From my understanding, adcoms can see my previous app cycles even if I didn't apply there.

Also, where can I find information on whether a school is friendly/unfriendly re-inventors? Would this specifically be mentioned on school websites?

Thank you again for all of your input.

Appeal letters are worthless. I repeat: WORTHLESS

Could you show us your last school list? In which cycle did you get your IIs? What is your state of residence?

The MPH will do nothing for your app.

I can't recommend reapplying to a place that rejected you 3x.

On the same note, if I apply this cycle to a school where I have applied 0-1 times previously, do I need to justify on my secondaries why I'm in my 5th app cycle? From my understanding, adcoms can see my previous app cycles even if I didn't apply there.

No Adcoms can't see where you've applied before, only to their own school.

I get a sense from the post-bac program (did you apply to one? You sure don't need one, you're not a reinventor with a 3.7+ GPA) that they were trying to tell you it's time for Plan B.

 

[Goro]

So you're at least a 2x MCAT taker with stellar scores. You have been on SDN for five years; can you enlighten us as to why you applied late in the cycle for at least three cycles? Didn't learn to apply in the June-Labor Day window for MD????

Oh, and whatever that pre-med counselor told you, ignore everything.

 

[Goro]

Sure thing. I'm a PA resident. Schools from last cycle:
Jefferson, Drexel, UPitt, Albany, Nova Southeastern, Loma Linda, VA Tech, Western Michigan, Quinnipiac, Einstein, Georgetown, Dartmouth, Tufts, Rush, Hofstra, Oakland-Beaumont
Other schools from previous cycles:
Temple, Penn State, Geisinger, NYMC, Albany, Loyola Stritch, Creighton, SLU, Tulane, Boston U, USF Morsani, Loma Linda, VA Tech, Wake Forest, Tufts, Rush
Interviews were at Geisinger SOM and VA Tech Carilion in my first two cycles.

Master's was just a 1-year accelerated MPH. I wrote this in another post, but here is a summary of NEW additions to my app since August 2019 that I'm hoping are significant for this cycle:

• Completed MPH; 3.9+ GPA
• MPH Fieldwork that involved mix of projects in a clinic, shadowing, soup kitchen volunteering (though obviously all cut short due to COVID)
• 2 new strong LORs: one from a physician at the fieldwork clinic who was really impressed by me and one from a former PI
• Also changed my personal statement and have been including in my secondaries newer, fresher anecdotes about the patient families I met (unlike my previous clinical work, I kept a journal with specific experiences) and work I did (GIS mapping, designing educational materials, etc.)
  • I highlight in several ways how my public health studies and experiences have not only broadened my skills but also reinvigorated my passion for medicine.
• More work as MCAT instructor, started crisis counselor volunteering

Postbacs:
I applied a few months ago to the postbacs with either conditional acceptance (Temple ACMS) or conditional interview (Toledo, Loyola). I know these programs are difficult, but my thinking was that if I can really prove myself in their coursework, then it would 1) guarantee at least one interview, and 2) further demonstrate my hunger for the field to schools where I'd be concurrently applying. I didn't get into any of these and Temple and Toledo declined to provide any feedback, but with Loyola MSMP here is the full feedback I had received:
"The committee agreed that they do not think our program can help you academically, as your metrics are fairly high and they are careful to choose candidates that will benefit most out of our program. It is in their experience that some medical schools do not review third-time applicants. Sometimes applicants are given more than two opportunities to apply if there are highly extenuating circumstances and if the application has changed significantly. The committee noted that you’ve applied to medical school five times, and it decreases your chances of acceptance, therefore they think you would need to be able to clearly justify continuing to apply to medical school and seek permission from those medical schools."

Why I applied so late in previous cycles:
No excuses. No extenuating circumstances. Simply didn't take the importance of timing seriously enough; wasn't proactive in seeking advice in improving my apps, essays, etc. from mentors and others around me. I recognize these were important factors under my control and that I repeatedly failed to act upon them. However, I genuinely want to rectify my situation in every way that I can (hence the consultant idea); I don't deserve the opportunities of a first- or second-timer, but I want to put my best foot forward this time and make the most out of the opportunities I do get.

Thank you all again for your input.

I can't sugar coat this, for someone who has on SDN for five years, you either have learned nothing, ignored it, or forgot it. It's almost like you're self sabotaging. Do you have Tiger Parents forcing down the med school pathway? I have to ask because I see a lot of concerning behavior and thought processes that are that are contrary to your self-interest.

I applied a few months ago to the postbacs with either conditional acceptance (Temple ACMS) or conditional interview (Toledo, Loyola). I know these programs are difficult, but my thinking was that if I can really prove myself in their coursework, then it would 1) guarantee at least one interview, and 2) further demonstrate my hunger for the field to schools where I'd be concurrently applying.

OK, look at the bolded text and full stop. 1) You already have a good GPA. Therefore, the first bolded section is redundant. 2) You demonstrate your hunger for the filed by doing the required ECs and applying to med school. End of story.

I've had to stop and scratch my head a few times on our SMP admissions committee when I see an app from people who have high stats and one weak MCAT score, and all they have to do just retake the MCAT and do well. This is the same sensation I'm getting when I read about your applying to post-bacs.

So, let me reiterate: THERE IS NO NEED FOR A POST-BAC OR SMP.

Your school list was OK, but you were aiming a bit too low. You may have been resource protected out by schools figuring, "oh s/he just go to Case, Pitt, or Mayo." Loma Linda is only for SDA or extremely devout Christians, so that was a donation.

You have already lost five years of a clinician's salary by bad choices. You say that you want to be a doctor, but your application behavior proves otherwise. You had two interviews, no mean feat, but couldn't seal the deal, so maybe they saw the same thing that I'm picking up on. Two interviews also tells me that you don't have any bad LORs, at least.

IF you're indeed serious, you should applying NOW.

Can you give me your year by year GPAs and I'll give a school list. From that list, delete all schools where you've applied 2x or more.

Also keep in mind this warning: people get kicked out of residency for being unteachable.

 

[Goro]

@Goro thank you very much for the honest feedback. I absolutely agree with everything you said. My indifference in those past cycles is definitely concerning, and "self-sabotage" is exactly the term I would use in hindsight; it might sound weird but I enjoyed the science-y parts like coursework, studying for and now teaching the MCAT, doing research, etc. but equally disliked the admissions process and ended up making poor decisions during those app cycles. I understand now that I need to be up to the mark in ALL aspects to be a competent physician and want to do everything I can to meet these standards.
As for your Tiger Parents question, I want to reiterate that I am intrinsically motivated to pursue this field; if anything, my family has been really supportive, and I've blown my chances despite having everything a student would need to succeed in medicine. However, I am 100% serious now and want to grab any opportunity by both hands. My primary is still under verification but I believe I'm on track to be complete by the end of the month.
Also, fair point with what you said about postbacs. I applied kind of out of desperation for wanting some degree of certainty for this cycle.

My previous LORs were from trusted profs at least two of whom I knew fairly well. However, I'm hoping my 2 new LORs from people who have high opinions of me will hopefully add something significant in this regard. I have a total of 5 trusted LORs: 2 science profs, 1 humanities prof, 1 physician, and 1 PI.

Here are my undergrad semester GPAs for each year:
Freshman: 3.510, 3.647
Sophomore: 3.845, 3.784
Junior: 3.807, 3.736
Senior: 3.705*, 3.765
*Senior fall term I had the lowest courseload (16 credits); most of the remaining semesters were about 18-23.
Thank you very much for suggesting a school list; that would be invaluable.

I suggest these. Omit those to who you applied > 1x.

NYU
Columbia
WashU
Vanderbilt
Yale
JHU
U Chicago
U Penn
Northwestern
Harvard
Mayo
Cornell
Stanford
Case
Duke
Sinai
U VA
BU
Baylor
UCSF
Pitt
USC/Keck
UCSD
UCLA
U MI
Rochester
Hofstra
Ohio State
U Cincy
Dartmouth
Western MI
USF Morsani
U MA
U IA
Albert Einstein
Emory
Tufts
NYU-LI
Jefferson
Miami
U CO
SLU
U VM
U WI
Any DO school. I can't recommend Nova, Wm Carey, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. CUHS is too new and appears to be too limited in rotations sites. UIW refuses to post their Boards scores, which is fishy.