What really are the T30 schools?

[throwaway2020202112345]

I need some help with suggesting a friend a few schools to apply to this cycle. They are pretty adamant on going to a T30 even though I’ve tried to tell them that those rankings are kinda BS to some extent. But I wanted to help so I sat down and tried to come up with some schools that they could apply to (WARS 84) and realized I don’t even know what T30 means lol

I think most people agree that the USNWR T20 schools shuffle around in rank but they still remain within the T20. What are the other 10 schools that comprise the T30 in your opinion? Are strong schools that just miss the T30 cut as per USNWR standards like BU, Brown, Rochester still considered T30?

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[KnightDoc]

What's wrong with just going on the USNWR website and seeing what #21-30 are, rather than starting yet another thread here on the same boring topic?

After all, isn't that literally what T30 is, rather than what we think it is or consider it to be?

 

[throwaway2020202112345]

What's wrong with just going on the USNWR website and seeing what #21-30 are, rather than starting yet another thread here on the same boring topic?

After all, isn't that literally what T30 is, rather than what we think it is?

That was not the point of this discussion. The question was getting people’s thoughts on what constitutes the T30 and if that is strictly just the USNWR T30 since there are several metrics used to rank schools. 🙂

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

That was not the point of this discussion. The question was getting people’s thoughts on what constitutes the T30 and if that is strictly just the USNWR T30 since there are several metrics used to rank schools. 🙂

no such thing as t30...

 

[Lawpy]

I’d just honestly focus on WARS school recommendations even though I believe WARS is rather outdated and incomplete. You can post on WAMC forums for advice

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Once you get past UVA, Case, Emory tier schools, the prestige advantage falls off dramatically.

There is probably a greater difference between T5 (Harvard, UCSF, Hopkins etc.) and T30 (USC, Brown, Miami) than T30 and T75 in terms of the advantages that it affords one come match time.

However, a lot solid schools that are upper mid tier private and or state flagships (Minnesota, Iowa, OSU, Wisconsin etc.) have good departments with a lot of resources that can set one up for residency in certain areas. Many lower tier schools don’t necessarily have these resources.

 

[deleted1065184]

It's a fool's errand, buddy. Have your friend make a list of the things most valuable to them and then choose schools based on that. If it's prestige of schools according to premeds (and almost only premeds, tbh), have them look at USNRW. If it's about research prowess, have them look at NIH funding and/or US News Global Rankings in their field of interest (this one actually factors in things like publication, citations, and collaborations). If it's about prestige of affiliated residency programs, have them look at Doximity.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is no consensus, and for the vast majority of medical students, it honestly doesn't matter. The smartest choice is usually the cheapest choice and/or closest to support system.

 

[99cutter]

The best medical school is the one that accepts you

 

[GoSpursGo]

All of the Caribbean ones. Tell your friend to apply there.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Seriously, one piece of information which might be helpful is if he has any strong interest in a specific specialty, because in that case the specialty rankings could be helpful. For one example, Cincinnati is generally a "good" school, but it has one of the absolute best peds programs in the country. Even moreso than coming from a good school, coming from a school that is known to be good in your specialty that you're applying to is helpful.

If he has no particular affinity for a specialty, then I'd just name the top 20 schools, and then have him pick another 10 schools from the range of 20-50 based on where he wants to live. I don't think anyone is really going to have anything interesting to say to differentiate, say, the 37th ranked school from the 28th ranked school.

 

[Goro]

I need some help with suggesting a friend a few schools to apply to this cycle. They are pretty adamant on going to a T30 even though I’ve tried to tell them that those rankings are kinda BS to some extent. But I wanted to help so I sat down and tried to come up with some schools that they could apply to (WARS 84) and realized I don’t even know what T30 means lol

I think most people agree that the USNWR T20 schools shuffle around in rank but they still remain within the T20. What are the other 10 schools that comprise the T30 in your opinion? Are strong schools that just miss the T30 cut as per USNWR standards like BU, Brown, Rochester still considered T30?

Ask ten people, you'll get 11 answers.

And there are probably 40 schools in the "T30".

 

[Bwesternn]

That was not the point of this discussion. The question was getting people’s thoughts on what constitutes the T30 and if that is strictly just the USNWR T30 since there are several metrics used to rank schools. 🙂

No two people will have the same list, nor will they have the exact same priorities when it comes to choosing a school. Refer your friend to google or the MSAR.

 

[alwaysrunning]

SInce you mentioned WARS, I'd suggest using the first two tiers as a rough guide

Category 1 (TOP): Harvard, Stanford, Hopkins, UCSF, Penn, WashU, Yale, Columbia, Duke, Chicago

Category 2 (HIGH): Michigan, UCLA*, NYU, Vanderbilt, Pitt, UCSD*, Cornell, Northwestern, Mt Sinai, Baylor*, Mayo, Case Western, Emory

I'd also add your instate med schools because they are often very good plus affordable.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

SInce you mentioned WARS, I'd suggest using the first two tiers as a rough guide

I'd also add your instate med schools because they are often very good plus affordable.

Switch Michigan and Chicago and it seems like a pretty legit tier list

But all of them can get you anywhere you want for the most part

 

[MDMechEngr]

Just my humble opinion. LOL. The T30 schools are the ones with multiple teaching hospitals and home residency programs in every specialities, and research oportunities with just a phone call or an email away. The schools that set you up with this and LOR accorss the spectrum of any specialty, and matches the home team to their program without having to do the hustle. The ones with residency programs that lots of people on this board would want to match to. Also, where the PD of the specialty that you're interested in is also your mentor and advisor. If you are at a school like this, I would say you are at a T30 school.

 

[wook]

It's a fool's errand, buddy. Have your friend make a list of the things most valuable to them and then choose schools based on that. If it's prestige of schools according to premeds (and almost only premeds, tbh), have them look at USNRW. If it's about research prowess, have them look at NIH funding and/or US News Global Rankings in their field of interest (this one actually factors in things like publication, citations, and collaborations). If it's about prestige of affiliated residency programs, have them look at Doximity.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is no consensus, and for the vast majority of medical students, it honestly doesn't matter. The smartest choice is usually the cheapest choice and/or closest to support system.

OP:

I would have to agree with the other posters and the advice you gave your friend that the T30 is dependent on the metric they are interested. If it's research they should consider focusing on research institutions that have substantial funding. If its passing the boards, look at the school's pass rate (be careful with this one as well, as the pass rates also depend on student motivation and need to excel for residency purposes). If its simulation, consider institutions with a strong simulation slant. If its to get into residency at a certain institution, it may be of benefit to attend that institution's medical school.

As several other folks have mentioned, don't forget the important other school factors. Is the geographic location in an area near enough to family (I had to make multiple trips for sick family members during medical school and being near them (3 hour drive) made my life easier). Do you have a significant other, if so, will they be able to visit? Will they like the area? If they are living with you, will they be able to find a job?

What about cost of the school? Consider minimizing your debt coming out of school. This is more important if thinking of doing a long residency (e.g. neurosurgery) or a fellowship. Consider not falling into the trap of being loan heavy (including house and student loans), and having little liquidity. They will be surprised at the various things life will throw their way that will need to be paid.

At the the end of the day, the most important factor in the equation, is the student. If they apply themself and keep their eye on the ball, they will learn and excel, increasing the likelihood of them to get into the residency of their choice. Using a measuring tool is of very limited value, as you mentioned to them.


Thanks.


Wook

 

[fogo]

Switch Michigan and Chicago and it seems like a pretty legit tier list

But all of them can get you anywhere you want for the most part

Disagree, Chicago and Michigan are where they belong.

Case in point, arguing about tiers is pointless and all are equally excellent schools.

 

[JStarMD]

In ten years when you are applying for hospital privileges no one will care where you attended medical school. They will “care” if you will accept Medicare and insurance payments that are 70-90% below market. ?? Sure ya wanna do this??