what kind of board scores are competitive for ortho residencies?

[inflamesdjk02]

I know it varies with the competitiveness of the residency (although I'm assuming most are very competitive), but what kind of Step I score should one aim for in order to get into orthopaedics/orthopaedic surgery?

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[sscooterguy]

I know it varies with the competitiveness of the residency (although I'm assuming most are very competitive), but what kind of Step I score should one aim for in order to get into orthopaedics/orthopaedic surgery?

I've heard 220's for community programs, but don't have any first hand knowledge about that. My buddy called a bunch of programs in the Colorado and surrounding states area as he's headed back, and he said non academic programs said they don't have cuttoffs, but they like to see 220. My residency director (academic program in midwest) has told me that many academic institutions have a CUTOFF of 230. I didn't make the cut off, and I asked if I could make it up on step 2, he said sure, but he'd like to see 235 or higher (and thats with honors in a couple of rotations in 3rd year). Interestingly, I asked him if an improvement would look better than just doing great off the bat on step 1. He said no, he's rather see 230 on step 1 and 230 on step 2 (rather than 217 and 240 was his example) to show that you can bring your A game consistently. In any case, good luck.

sscooterguy

 

[HtSht2BoneDoc]

Scooter guy said it pretty well. In california i know alot from alot of people in high places. Most CA programs have cutoffs for an interview of 235 ( thats also to download your application). If you get an interview then your score doesnt matter as much unless they are deciding between someone just like you then they will take the higher board score. Most people that interview in CA regardless of communbity ( i think 2) or academic ( 5-7) have at least a 240, good amount with 250s and less with 260s. My buddy in NY says the same. Midwest about the same because alot of top programs are over there. Any how good luck. But I would say less than a 230 for Ortho in USA...... GOOD LUCK and work those connections like a 2 dollar hooka.

 

[moquito_17]

I know it varies with the competitiveness of the residency (although I'm assuming most are very competitive), but what kind of Step I score should one aim for in order to get into orthopaedics/orthopaedic surgery?

A very common cutoff number is 230. A few programs have 240 (usually smaller programs). Some do the cutoff at 220, but this is less common.

For the people in my medical school class, those who were sub-230 had far fewer interview invitations than those who were 230-240. They had a 30%-50% invitation rate. Those who were 240+ got invitations from nearly every place to which they applied.

I am unaware of any other cutoff numbers.

Hope this helps,

 

[moquito_17]

Scooter guy said it pretty well. In california i know alot from alot of people in high places. Most CA programs have cutoffs for an interview of 235 ( thats also to download your application). If you get an interview then your score doesnt matter as much unless they are deciding between someone just like you then they will take the higher board score. Most people that interview in CA regardless of communbity ( i think 2) or academic ( 5-7) have at least a 240, good amount with 250s and less with 260s. My buddy in NY says the same. Midwest about the same because alot of top programs are over there. Any how good luck. But I would say less than a 230 for Ortho in USA...... GOOD LUCK and work those connections like a 2 dollar hooka.

I think that this statement is untrue: "If you get an interview then your score doesnt matter."

I know that in the orthopaedics resident-selection literature, USMLE Step 1 is a factor in the final rank process as well as the interview. This is unlike when we applied to medical school where they considered everyone 'on the same playing field' before the interview and sort of 'restarted' from there.

 

[mdegra]

I hear 220 on Step I is a common cutoff in ortho programs. But I had a 217 on Step I and a 250 on Step II, and I matched. I didn't really have any connections, but busted my butt on a rotation. Boards are important, but also how you fit in the program. If you gel with the residents, they often go to bat for you. I do think boards are still considered during the interview/rank process.

 

[RonaldColeman]

I hear 220 on Step I is a common cutoff in ortho programs. But I had a 217 on Step I and a 250 on Step II, and I matched. I didn't really have any connections, but busted my butt on a rotation. Boards are important, but also how you fit in the program. If you gel with the residents, they often go to bat for you. I do think boards are still considered during the interview/rank process.

Per a few guys in my class who went for ortho, the cut-off to do an away rotation at some of the UCs in Cali was 250. I'm not sure if it was the same for interviews, however. I do know that the derm cutoff at Loma Linda for application download this year was 250. So it would not surprise me if some of the more prestigious ortho programs had a similar cutoff.

 

[EasyRider]

An ortho program director that I talk to frequently has told me that if they just have your application without knowing you first hand a Step 1 cutoff is a 230 for interviews at most solid programs.

Still, if you do an away rotation at the institution you are applying they can assess you first hand and will often grant a complimentary interview.

With that said, if your Step 1 score is less than the National Mean you have an uphill battle (even with an interview) to land a residency spot. The key is to be honest about your academic qualifications and not to be overconfident during the application process.

Plus, it doesn't hurt to be a co-author in a orthopedic research paper with a program director.

 

[GuP]

I hear 220 on Step I is a common cutoff in ortho programs. But I had a 217 on Step I and a 250 on Step II, and I matched. I didn't really have any connections, but busted my butt on a rotation. Boards are important, but also how you fit in the program. If you gel with the residents, they often go to bat for you. I do think boards are still considered during the interview/rank process.

off topic, but how did u rock ur rotations? i begin them soon and would like some advice...

 

[mhines]

I'm looking for some advice because I've gotten myself into a mess. I matched with a program that I thought that I wanted at the time, yet already regret my decision and wish that I would have done ortho. At the time, I didn't want to disappoint my family by not following in my Dad's footsteps. So now, when it's seemingly too late I'm trying to get everything straight for next year and hope to be in ortho. I've heard that it's hard to go back into the match and I'm scared that my scores aren't competetive enough. My scores are very similar to the ones that mdegra posted...I have a 219 on step I and a 250 on step II. How hard is it to match into ortho not only with those scores but after your first intern year? And if it is possible, specifically what programs would I be looking at? Is it very difficult to go from your first intern year into the match again? You have no idea how much I would appreciate any advice that anyone could offer.
Thanks,
Michelle

I hear 220 on Step I is a common cutoff in ortho programs. But I had a 217 on Step I and a 250 on Step II, and I matched. I didn't really have any connections, but busted my butt on a rotation. Boards are important, but also how you fit in the program. If you gel with the residents, they often go to bat for you. I do think boards are still considered during the interview/rank process.

 

[moquito_17]

I'm looking for some advice because I've gotten myself into a mess. I matched with a program that I thought that I wanted at the time, yet already regret my decision and wish that I would have done ortho. At the time, I didn't want to disappoint my family by not following in my Dad's footsteps. So now, when it's seemingly too late I'm trying to get everything straight for next year and hope to be in ortho. I've heard that it's hard to go back into the match and I'm scared that my scores aren't competetive enough. My scores are very similar to the ones that mdegra posted...I have a 219 on step I and a 250 on step II. How hard is it to match into ortho not only with those scores but after your first intern year? And if it is possible, specifically what programs would I be looking at? Is it very difficult to go from your first intern year into the match again? You have no idea how much I would appreciate any advice that anyone could offer.
Thanks,
Michelle

Michelle,

If you can meet the ABOS requirements for an orthopaedic surgery intern, you can apply for PGY-2 spots that begin in July 2007. There are a handful of these available each year due to expansion. Very rarely are they available due to residents’ quitting. If you can’t meet the ABOS requirements, then you would have to look for a PGY-1 position.

As far as the match goes, I have no clue if you can be released from your current commitment or how one would go about re-entering the match.

Hope this helps,

 

[thejesus]

i couldnt resist... this 230, 240 thats required for ortho is just a rumor thats been perpetuated long enough that everyone believes it.

a score above 240 places one near the 90th percentile... meaning there are only about 2000 some people with those scores. there are 615 ortho positions each year. are one-quarter of the best and brightest going into ortho?

similarly, nsurg (also very competitive) has a matched AVERAGE board score of 235... and an average unmatched of 205.

a 230 or 240 will make the cutoff for those programs where they do exist. a 230 or 240 will certainly make you 'competitive'. however, anything less won't stop someone who works hard. and isnt a total d-bag.

 

[M. Platini]

i couldnt resist... this 230, 240 thats required for ortho is just a rumor thats been perpetuated long enough that everyone believes it.

a score above 240 places one near the 90th percentile... meaning there are only about 2000 some people with those scores. there are 615 ortho positions each year. are one-quarter of the best and brightest going into ortho?

similarly, nsurg (also very competitive) has a matched AVERAGE board score of 235... and an average unmatched of 205.

a 230 or 240 will make the cutoff for those programs were they do exist. a 230 or 240 will certainly make you 'competitive'. however, anything less isn't won't stop someone who works hard. and isnt a total d-bag.

I haven't taken step 1 yet, but the words that I read about ortho's cut-offs have bothered me as well. Does anyone have an idea of, out of the programs, what proportion are the "non academic", "community", programs that will match a score of around 220?

I don't know how you guys feel, but advice that you need connections to make it get to me as well. I plan on scoring well and doing well on rotations, but I'm counting on not also needing personal/family friends because I just don't have them in this field at this point.

 

[moquito_17]

I haven't taken step 1 yet, but the words that I read about ortho's cut-offs have bothered me as well. Does anyone have an idea of, out of the programs, what proportion are the "non academic", "community", programs that will match a score of around 220?

I don't know how you guys feel, but advice that you need connections to make it get to me as well. I plan on scoring well and doing well on rotations, but I'm counting on not also needing personal/family friends because I just don't have them in this field at this point.

"Connections" aren't personal and family friends. They're orthopaedics faculty that worked with you and like you and write letters on your behalf that are read by people that THEY know. That is the 'connection'.

Don't stress yourself too much...

 

[MSSM2008]

Is is necessary to take a full year off doing research to get in to a top program?

Assuming everything else is fine.

 

[thejesus]

Is is necessary to take a full year off doing research to get in to a top program?

Assuming everything else is fine.

i am currently rotating at a "top notch" program that includes over 30 residents. not a single one took a year off for research. though, strong academic, research oriented departments with abundant funding may seek out such applicants. these programs are often thought to be soft clinically. some programs may even look at a year off as a negative thing.

as is often said, research is mostly something to have to talk about during interviews. it offers little to getting an interview or rank lists. that said, it is a good way to meet some people and maybe get a LOR.

lastly, not sure what to call it, but doing research to get into residency (with no real interest or plans on continuing to do research once in residency or go into academics) is disingenuous. you may have to outright lie in your interview if you are asked if you plan to continue your research (cause after all, you can't say, 'no, i did it b/c i thought it would help me get into a program).

my advice... if everything on your app is 'fine' and you dont have a sincere interest in research, dont do it.

 

[sscooterguy]

i am currently rotating at a "top notch" program that includes over 30 residents. not a single one took a year off for research. though, strong academic, research oriented departments with abundant funding may seek out such applicants. these programs are often thought to be soft clinically. some programs may even look at a year off as a negative thing.

as is often said, research is mostly something to have to talk about during interviews. it offers little to getting an interview or rank lists. that said, it is a good way to meet some people and maybe get a LOR.

lastly, not sure what to call it, but doing research to get into residency (with no real interest or plans on continuing to do research once in residency or go into academics) is disingenuous. you may have to outright lie in your interview if you are asked if you plan to continue your research (cause after all, you can't say, 'no, i did it b/c i thought it would help me get into a program).

my advice... if everything on your app is 'fine' and you dont have a sincere interest in research, dont do it.

I personally don't think its disingenuous to do research to get into residency. I don't like histology, but I study histology any ways to do well on exams basically to get into residency. I did research basically to help me get into residency. When asked about continuing research during residency, I will honestly say yes. Is it because I like research? Not particularly, but I will continue research as every single one of the residencies and especially fellowships that that I know require research and publication.

However, I do agree with you in that if you don't have an interest in research, you don't have to do it as a medical student. You will have to do it as a resident though.

sscooterguy

 

[sallazar]

So what about someone who just missed the cutoff (228), will they not even have a chance of being interviewed at the competitive programs?