what it takes to be accepted in Cards Fellowship?

[DoctorDr]

hi guys/gals what are the things i need to do to be a competitive Cards fellowship applicant?

Thanks a lot in advance..

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[roxid]

hi guys/gals what are the things i need to do to be a competitive Cards fellowship applicant?

Thanks a lot in advance..

Godfather
Good residency program
research
how well you did in residency
In that order

 

[dragonfly99]

-connections/kissing up to cards attendings and your PD
-going to a well known university medical center residency program
research
-familiarity of your residency program to the fellowship programs to which you apply

less important but still a factor @least sometimes: USMLE scores, where you went to med school and/or how well you did in med school, your actual performance in residency

 

[DoctorDr]

-connections/kissing up to cards attendings and your PD
-going to a well known university medical center residency program
research
-familiarity of your residency program to the fellowship programs to which you apply

less important but still a factor @least sometimes: USMLE scores, where you went to med school and/or how well you did in med school, your actual performance in residency

i think the most impt is the CONNECTIONS/kissing UP..AS I WAS TOLD BY MY SENIOR RESIDENTS...ITS WHOM YOU KNOW AFTER RESIDENCY FOR FELLOWSHIP

 

[OptimusPrime]

very true, kissing up to your fellowship program directors and prominent cardiology faculty automatically boost you from an average applicant to a competitive applicant, its a very powerful part of playing this whole getting into cardiology fellowship game. good luck.

OP

 

[EPADHA]

very true, kissing up to your fellowship program directors and prominent cardiology faculty automatically boost you from an average applicant to a competitive applicant, its a very powerful part of playing this whole getting into cardiology fellowship game. good luck.

OP

this is unfortunate, but completely true.

 

[Myostatin]

I would disagree re kissing up being the most important factor.... this may help you at your home program, but its not going to help you all that much when applying elsewhere, unless you're talking about kissing up to your IM program director so he writes you a good letter. The quality/quantity of research you've done is the most important factor from what I've seen, at least if you're talking about the well known academic programs. #2 - Reputation of your residency program, #3 - how you did in your residency program (i.e. program director's letter) #4 letters of recommendation (weighted more heavily if they're from nationally known faculty), and then USMLE scores, where you did med school & undergrad, in no particular order.

 

[OptimusPrime]

I have to respectfully disagree. More often than not those kissing up lead to great letters from well known faculty which ends up being one of your main if not the main selling point.

Surprising number of times I was told during interview, I know so and so (a letter writer), "how is the old dog doing these days" while the interviewer was still trying to read up on my research during the interview. It is a big boys club, they all know each other, a letter or phone call goes a long way. Weighted much more heavily than it should in my honest opinion.

trust me, i want it to be about research. i have published more and have remained more productive than the other eleven individuals applying from my institution but the number of interviews i received did not reflect that.

no one is arguing that all the things you mentioned above don't count, what most people need to realize is that your life and the application process is made much easier if you got the powerful faculty on your back. its the whole "politics" of the application process. way more strong applicants than spots, hence it gets all shady and the letters and phone calls start taking precedents over solid research, academic excellence and residency performance.

Best of luck with the upcoming match everyone.

OP

 

[tibor75]

I applied to program A. I was in the No-interview pile. A doctor who trained at program A that I knew made a phone call. The PD he talked to said he wasn't sure why I was in the no interview pile - I seemed like a good candidate. I was now in the interview pile. I matched there.

 

[dragonfly99]

its the whole "politics" of the application process. way more strong applicants than spots, hence it gets all shady and the letters and phone calls start taking precedence


OP

I agree with this.

However, there is some truth in the comment above that one, where the person said that research can matter most @the top research institutions. I think that once you get in the "possible interview" pile, then having a particular research interest(s) that matches one of the faculty there can be super important. Also, if you are able to sell yourself during the interview as someone who is going to gel well w/their ongoing research projects, that can be a major selection factor.

Cardiology and GI are so competitive that EVERYTHING can matter...the particular weight given to different facets of the application really does vary across institutions, which is why it is good to apply broadly, particularly if you aren't sure how competitive you will be.

 

[Studebug]

I agree with this.

However, there is some truth in the comment above that one, where the person said that research can matter most @the top research institutions. I think that once you get in the "possible interview" pile, then having a particular research interest(s) that matches one of the faculty there can be super important. Also, if you are able to sell yourself during the interview as someone who is going to gel well w/their ongoing research projects, that can be a major selection factor.

Cardiology and GI are so competitive that EVERYTHING can matter...the particular weight given to different facets of the application really does vary across institutions, which is why it is good to apply broadly, particularly if you aren't sure how competitive you will be.

When do you try to start the Cards research if you are hoping to apply in PGY2? Is it in undergrad or PGY1?

 

[Ashrouf]

Although kissing up increases your chances sounds true, I disagree a little bit with the wording. It is more of an art of convincing that attending to make a phone call for you on the premise that you have showed strong skills. At the end of it, it is a working interview. That's where the factor of where did you do your internal medicine residency comes in. A program director want people that are a sure thing to start up their fellowship and have a good level of competency. They'd rather hire people they know.

 

[OptimusPrime]

it is an art indeed. some more expert at this particular art than others. a sad aspect of this whole process since it can at times result in good applicants missing out on their top choices to less competitive applicants simply for not having this particular art down.

not a new concept but i feel it is more of a factor when it comes to fellowship selection process then it did for college/med school or residency selection. although particular experiences and programs may differ on this.

OP

 

[Ashrouf]

it is an art indeed. some more expert at this particular art than others. a sad aspect of this whole process since it can at times result in good applicants missing out on their top choices to less competitive applicants simply for not having this particular art down.

not a new concept but i feel it is more of a factor when it comes to fellowship selection process then it did for college/med school or residency selection. although particular experiences and programs may differ on this.

OP

Are we agreeing here on something? A first I guess.

 

[radslooking]

I applied to program A. I was in the No-interview pile. A doctor who trained at program A that I knew made a phone call. The PD he talked to said he wasn't sure why I was in the no interview pile - I seemed like a good candidate. I was now in the interview pile. I matched there.

I like your style Tibor, you don't mince words. Straight to the point and accurate.

 

[radslooking]

Although kissing up increases your chances sounds true, I disagree a little bit with the wording. It is more of an art of convincing that attending to make a phone call for you on the premise that you have showed strong skills. At the end of it, it is a working interview. That's where the factor of where did you do your internal medicine residency comes in. A program director want people that are a sure thing to start up their fellowship and have a good level of competency. They'd rather hire people they know.

This is true, people like known quantities. That's a nice way of saying it's who you know. (combined with ability of course....but there's lots of people with ability)

 

[drdavemd]

I think people are using the phrase "kissing up" when you mean to say "networking". In my mind, kissing up is issuing meaningless compliments and/or trying to force your way into being my best buddy. Networking on the other hand is being introduced to people and finding ways to work with them. (eg: figure our who the prominent faculty are and offer to help them with their research projects. Then you get to know them, they know you, and frequently they have research projects ready and lined up waiting for people to volunteer.)

I agree with Ashrouf and OptimusPrime that this can be a delicate balancing act. Being a strong resident will help that a lot, but also pay attention to the attendings that you get along with and build those relationships. You are not going to be close colleagues with all your faculty.

Networking is part of life, not just getting a fellowship. It is how you will find out about and get jobs afterwards as well. Tibor75's anecdote is absolutely how things happen in the real world, but this is just networking and using your connections to your advantage.

I still think that this boils down to the fact that you must work hard and use the resources at your disposal to maximize your chance at the fellowship that you want. Granted those resources (research opportunities, emeritus faculty, etc.) are going to differ from program to program, but that is a big part of why people have also mentioned that "which program you are coming from" matters a great deal as well.

Good luck!

P.S. RESEARCH: Start as early as you can, and try to have multiple projects going at once so when one goes dormant (waiting for funding, IRB approval, etc.) you can work on others.