What is your side gig?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
I'm paid through a firm for my expert witness services (except state medical board):
  • $400/hour for review of charts and such at home.
  • $500/hour for in-office depositions (2-hour minimum)
    • $500/hour for out-of-office depositions (half-day minimum) - this is almost all depositions since they occur in attorney offices usually
  • $2500/hour for trial testimony for half-day and $5000/hour for full-day (anything past 1 pm is billed as full day)
    • first day of court testimony is always full-day rate regardless if they have me on the stand for 1 hour or 8 hours
  • All travel expenses/lodging reimbursed by the client

I need to do what you're doing. How did you come across these 400/hr chart review gigs?

I hope my travel search engine site in 5 years generates enough revenue to cut down in 5-10 years.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Last edited:
"I’m not sure I follow. If it doesn’t pay much AND you don’t really want to do it...why do it?"

Lol. I get it though. Emergency medicine is just that soul sucking.

It really is. The busy days are so exhausting and stressful.

I wish i had done anesthesia or derm -_- i had the numbers for derm -_-
 
Members don't see this ad :)
They gave away their profession to the crnas long ago.

Anesthesia sucks bro. Their forums eve more doom and gloom than ours.

Interestingly, both EM and anesthesia are growing in numbers of applicants and their average salaries are often north of $325K for 40 hrs/week. Perhaps the opinions on the internet do not seem reflect those of the industry? Or, could it a problem with medicine in general sucking, and anesthesia and EM are the prettiest houses in an ugly neighborhood?
 
Interestingly, both EM and anesthesia are growing in numbers of applicants and their average salaries are often north of $325K for 40 hrs/week. Perhaps the opinions on the internet do not seem reflect those of the industry? Or, could it a problem with medicine in general sucking, and anesthesia and EM are the prettiest houses in an ugly neighborhood?
This may be true. I’ll tell you that em pay is 100% downward pressure. Check pay in denver, Austin and the recent team health communication.
Throw in closures of fseds, and hospitals.
I think on a macro level things are not good for us. I’ll also say people choosing em is a poor indicator of the health of our field. When I applied I expected to earn 180k/yr.

Maybe you are right in that em is changing rapidly. It’s not changing for the better though.
 
This may be true. I’ll tell you that em pay is 100% downward pressure. Check pay in denver, Austin and the recent team health communication.
Throw in closures of fseds, and hospitals.
I think on a macro level things are not good for us. I’ll also say people choosing em is a poor indicator of the health of our field. When I applied I expected to earn 180k/yr.

Maybe you are right in that em is changing rapidly. It’s not changing for the better though.
I wonder if we'll see a trend back toward both SDGs and hospital employment. I know you've posted that you're seeing a slight increase in new SDGs being formed when hospitals kick the CMGs to the curb. I'm not sure if that's generalize-able to the country as a whole but I have to think that the dissatisfaction with CMGs might be.
 
So there was an article in modern healthcare about the team health and United spat. One of the things they mentioned was the need for a subsidy if the balance billing thing passes. I’m not sure how true that is but it is interesting and would make it more likely sdgs could rise up. The issue is there are few people who know how to run a practice. It’s not rocket science but you have to have some skill.
 
So there was an article in modern healthcare about the team health and United spat. One of the things they mentioned was the need for a subsidy if the balance billing thing passes. I’m not sure how true that is but it is interesting and would make it more likely sdgs could rise up. The issue is there are few people who know how to run a practice. It’s not rocket science but you have to have some skill.
And that's why I don't think we'll see a huge number of new SDGs. But hospitals are well placed to take advantage of this since they already have most of the needed staffing already in place - billing, compliance, HR. If the balance billing passes in some form, the lost income could be disastrous for CMGs since they are 100% dependent on billing (or subsidies which I have to think are becoming less common) while a hospital could absorb the loss much better.
 
And that's why I don't think we'll see a huge number of new SDGs. But hospitals are well placed to take advantage of this since they already have most of the needed staffing already in place - billing, compliance, HR. If the balance billing passes in some form, the lost income could be disastrous for CMGs since they are 100% dependent on billing (or subsidies which I have to think are becoming less common) while a hospital could absorb the loss much better.
Hospital martins are small. The balance billing thing will be interesting as seen by team healths actions.
Time will tell. I think the sdg thing will be slow but will grow.
 
I don't have any plans to leave my group, but I'm paying attention to any meetings that pop up in which I can learn about running a SDG...
And that's why I don't think we'll see a huge number of new SDGs. But hospitals are well placed to take advantage of this since they already have most of the needed staffing already in place - billing, compliance, HR. If the balance billing passes in some form, the lost income could be disastrous for CMGs since they are 100% dependent on billing (or subsidies which I have to think are becoming less common) while a hospital could absorb the loss much better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I don't have any plans to leave my group, but I'm paying attention to any meetings that pop up in which I can learn about running a SDG...
Nothing like that exists but the ACEP reimbursemen conference has good info.
 
So, I've got one I'm doing some research on and keeping an eye on the industry. Before I ever got into medicine, I was a towboat deckhand on the Intracoastal Waterway and Lower Mississippi River. Even though I've been off the boats for a while, I still keep up with the goings on.

Last year, there was a study performed on making the Red River navigable above Shreveport, LA- All the way to Denison, TX. It was determined feasible. They're looking at the first phase of extending it to Texarkana, AR. If it's approved after the eventual drag through Congress, I'll be looking for a boat, crew, and fleet space for barges. There is currently no major or minor operator remotely close to that area. The closest is in Alexandria, LA.

If it all works out, I might be able to secure contracts for one of the larger companies to pick up their barges somewhere south and take them to the upper reaches of the Red and back, as well as shifting on and off docks.
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
This may be true. I’ll tell you that em pay is 100% downward pressure. Check pay in denver, Austin and the recent team health communication.
Throw in closures of fseds, and hospitals.
I think on a macro level things are not good for us. I’ll also say people choosing em is a poor indicator of the health of our field. When I applied I expected to earn 180k/yr.

Maybe you are right in that em is changing rapidly. It’s not changing for the better though.

I certainly do not think that it’s changing for the better and I agree that there is downward pressure on salaries.

On the other hand, I think that the “health of the field” can appear very different depending on the metric. I see the current crop of applicants to EM have a different set of priorities than my generation. They seem to value time away from the hospital and work-life balance over salary (which seems to be over represented on this forum). Many are choosing to use EM as a stepping stone to other interests with a lot more doing fellowships in admin, CCM, or research than when I graduated.

Despite taking on record educational debt and a declining prospectus on future earnings, EM is still enjoying immense popularity. It’s rather interesting to me as someone who peaced-out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I certainly do not think that it’s changing for the better and I agree that there is downward pressure on salaries.

On the other hand, I think that the “health of the field” can appear very different depending on the metric. I see the current crop of applicants to EM have a different set of priorities than my generation. They seem to value time away from the hospital and work-life balance over salary (which seems to be over represented on this forum). Many are choosing to use EM as a stepping stone to other interests with a lot more doing fellowships in admin, CCM, or research than when I graduated.

Despite taking on record educational debt and a declining prospectus on future earnings, EM is still enjoying immense popularity. It’s rather interesting to me as someone who peaced-out.
Agreed. It’s been competetive for a while. I believe few med students even consider income to debt ratio etc.

Our residents comment on it all the time how they didn’t know stuff. I fear the next group will be disengaged l, disinterested and will burn out when push comes to shove.
I don’t have the answer except the sdg model offers the best of all worlds imo.
 
I get the impression that SDGs will continue to be squeezed. Perhaps not out of existence, but the financial pressures will be (have been) even more immense. Back 20 years ago, the SDGs got hammered by malpractice and other admin costs that caused the innovative among them to pool their resources to manage malpractice costs and billing operations. Interestingly, it was this financial pressure that caused a handful of SDGs to grow and transform into many of today’s large CMGs as a means of applying economies of scale to their administrative costs (coding, billing, malpractice, etc.). For example, EMP started as a SDG in Canton, OH with 8 or so docs and grew into what is today USACS; I believe that SCP has a similar story.

The problem now for the SDGs that made it this far in the expense jungle now seems to be negative pressure on their revenue streams with bundled reimbursement, bans on balance billing, etc. How is a SDG going to effectively negotiate with insurers and compete with the likes of USACS that can bring millions of patient encounters to the table?

Thus, I foresee the ascendency of the hospital employee model on the horizon. Already, hospital CEOs facing narrow margins are looking at physician billing and scratching their heads. In the past, these CEOs equated physician management to herding cats that was wasn’t worth their time and effort. Now, as hospital margins tighten and CMGs pull embarrassing stunts with balance and out of network billing, the hospital CEOs are warming up to physician employees. Look at large systems like Atrium (Mecklenberg Med Group) , Wake Forest Baptist Health (academic system with ED contracts across the Piedmont, NC), Banner Health (multiple community and academic physicians in AZ), etc. as examples of systems that are increasingly employing their own physician labor pool.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Atrium is an Apollo contract. We do not have the main campus of Carolinas Med.

I think all CMG's started out small. Apollo started with just one hospital (WellStar Cobb Hospital) and has grown since.

A few Atrium sites are by apollo, the majority are USACS, which is why pay is so low in Charlotte.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Atrium is an Apollo contract. We do not have the main campus of Carolinas Med.

I think all CMG's started out small. Apollo started with just one hospital (WellStar Cobb Hospital) and has grown since.

As previously noted, most of the Atrium contracts are USUCS. Last I checked, ApolloMD only has Atrium Union and Waxhaw FSED.

Also, Atrium owns Mecklenberg Medical Group which employees hundreds of adult primary care and specialty physicians. They also employ the majority of primary care pediatricians in their system.

Atrium is currently in talks with Wake Forest Baptist Health and WFU to create a “strategic partnership” (probably eventual ownership of Wake’s health system) that will bring a new Wake Forest School of Medicine to Charlotte and a big change in who runs GME and research for Atrium. It is currently by vetted by the FTC. This has implications for the long-term staffing of the Atrium community EDs...
 
Last edited:
As previously noted, most of the Atrium contracts are USUCS. Last I checked, ApolloMD only has Atrium Union and Waxhaw FSED.

Also, Atrium owns Mecklenberg Medical Group which employees hundreds of adult primary care and specialty physicians. They also employ the majority of primary care pediatricians in their system.

Atrium is currently in talks with Wake Forest Baptist Health and WFU to create a “strategic partnership” (probably eventual ownership of Wake’s health system) that will bring a new Wake Forest School of Medicine to Charlotte and a big change in who runs GME and research for Atrium. It is currently by vetted by the FTC. This has implications for the long-term staffing of the Atrium community EDs...
Yeah but then there's this huge multi-specialty group that left Atrium recently: Tryon Medical Partners
 
Yeah but then there's this huge multi-specialty group that left Atrium recently: Tryon Medical Partners

That is the group of 90 or so doctors who left Mecklenberg Medical Group 2 years ago. Atrium still employs 1900 doctors across of it campuses in the Carolinas and GA. That will increase by another 1500 if the deal with Wake Forest is approved by the FTC.
 
I’m hearing grumblings under the table Atrium is unhappy with USACS and may switch to another CMG VS floating the idea of direct hospital employment

this would be good for all EM physicians in the area, as USACS is dropping the market pay $140/ hr, $130 at a freestanding.... no thanks
 
Atrium recently purchased Navicent Health, Floyd Medical Center, and a few others that are Apollo contracts.

The are about 10 USACS Atrium locations around Charlotte; mixture of hospitals and FSEDs. They have had most of the hospitals since absorbing a SDG called PEMA about 10 years ago. It’s possible that Apollo contracts outnumber the USACS contracts now that Atrium acquired in GA when they “partnered” with Navicent last year.

Everyone needs a partner it seems...
 
I’m hearing grumblings under the table Atrium is unhappy with USACS and may switch to another CMG VS floating the idea of direct hospital employment

this would be good for all EM physicians in the area, as USACS is dropping the market pay $140/ hr, $130 at a freestanding.... no thanks

That grumbling is what I’m referring to when I say that the Wake Forest merger has implications for Atrium’s community EDs - at least around Charlotte...at first...
 
I get the impression that SDGs will continue to be squeezed. Perhaps not out of existence, but the financial pressures will be (have been) even more immense. Back 20 years ago, the SDGs got hammered by malpractice and other admin costs that caused the innovative among them to pool their resources to manage malpractice costs and billing operations. Interestingly, it was this financial pressure that caused a handful of SDGs to grow and transform into many of today’s large CMGs as a means of applying economies of scale to their administrative costs (coding, billing, malpractice, etc.). For example, EMP started as a SDG in Canton, OH with 8 or so docs and grew into what is today USACS; I believe that SCP has a similar story.

The problem now for the SDGs that made it this far in the expense jungle now seems to be negative pressure on their revenue streams with bundled reimbursement, bans on balance billing, etc. How is a SDG going to effectively negotiate with insurers and compete with the likes of USACS that can bring millions of patient encounters to the table?

Thus, I foresee the ascendency of the hospital employee model on the horizon. Already, hospital CEOs facing narrow margins are looking at physician billing and scratching their heads. In the past, these CEOs equated physician management to herding cats that was wasn’t worth their time and effort. Now, as hospital margins tighten and CMGs pull embarrassing stunts with balance and out of network billing, the hospital CEOs are warming up to physician employees. Look at large systems like Atrium (Mecklenberg Med Group) , Wake Forest Baptist Health (academic system with ED contracts across the Piedmont, NC), Banner Health (multiple community and academic physicians in AZ), etc. as examples of systems that are increasingly employing their own physician labor pool.
I think this is the wrong view. I have only 1 perspective though. The SDGs can weather much of this much easier than a CMG. I know a decent bit about how EMP started and if you now much about it is was only an SDG maybe in name even from the get go. Dom who started it immediately tried to take over contracts and get docs to work for him. It was small but the reality is that he didn’t want equal partners.

All of EM is having pressure. See the team health email. I dont now what “bundled reimbursements” you refer to. I dont know of any non academic group that is anything but FFS. I also think smaller companies can more easily negotiate with the insurers. The BB thing will harm the CMGs much worse. Even if we go the way of the Lamar Alexander legistlation it would benefit SDGs who can just remain out of network and ride the coattails of the CMGs.

Hospital employment is illegal in some states. I dont now of all those systems but Banner I know quite well. They have 1 SDG, APP, Envision and TeamHealth staffing their phoenix locations. They employ the academic guys but thats complicated and there is a lot of unhappiness.

Hospitals will feel the pinch of all this too. one of the most interesting things i read in regards to BB was a line from moodys saying that this would cause physician groups (CMGs and SDGs) to go back and get more subsidy. What will happen? Maybe it is employment. It is expensive and difficult but with the glut of EM docs maybe it wont be an issue.
 
Just a point of clarification, when I refer to Atrium and Banner I mean their systems as a whole and not just their EDs. Banner employs over 1K doctors. While most of this expansion in hospital employee workforce is from large health systems gobbling up primarily care practices, I think that EM could be next.

Or, I could be dead wrong and we will see a rebirth of SDGs over the next year.

Also, bundled reimbursements is another name for value-based reimbursements. Larger organizations are increasingly making the transition to P4P. I curious to see how small groups do this.
 
Last edited:
Just a point of clarification, when I refer to Atrium and Banner I mean their systems as a whole and not just their EDs. Banner employs over 1K doctors. While most of this expansion in hospital employee workforce is from large health systems gobbling up primarily care practices, I think that EM could be next.

Or, I could be dead wrong and we will see a rebirth of SDGs over the next year.

Also, bundled reimbursements is another name for value-based reimbursements.
No one is doing that in em. Just sayin
 
No one is doing that in em. Just sayin

Actually, I believe that they are. While I don’t have the data in front of me, I recall a general upward trend in hospital system employment of EPs over the past decade. CMGs were exploding and SDNs were collapsing.

In my region, Wake Forest Baptist Health significantly expanded its community EP presence.
 
I thought PEMA was part of TeamHealth? Is TeamHealth now USACS or is EmCare now USACS? When my daughter was treated by PEMA, we received a bill from TeamHealth.

PEMA turned to EMP, then USACS
 
I thought PEMA was part of TeamHealth? Is TeamHealth now USACS or is EmCare now USACS? When my daughter was treated by PEMA, we received a bill from TeamHealth.

I think that TeamHealth staffs Piedmont Medical Center in Rock Hill, SC (about 20 miles South of CLT) which is owned by Tenet. I’m not aware of any other TH contracts in CLT.

PEMA was the private group that staffed CHS/Atrium sites around CLT and a couple of other hospitals in the region until roughly 2009ish. EMP had been staffing Caromont Gaston Memorial just West of CLT since 2005, and used that experience as a selling point to CHS/Atrium and the cash-starved PEMA. EMP took over PEMA but kept a lot of their leadership. Interestingly, EMP lost the Caromont/Gaston Memorial contract to ApolloMD in 2013ish.

This left MEMA staffing the Presby/Novant hospitals as the only small group in the Charlotte Region (unless you consider Shelby and Kings Mtn to be CLT). I had a couple of residents take jobs at MEMA but never heard much about their finances except for the fact that they had a sizable buy-in to become partner.

I left CLT back in 2013 but largely stayed in NC until recently peacing out for fellowship. Personally, neither Piedmont nor Gaston Memorial would be places that I’d want to work at or have my daughter seen as a patient. Both are rough...like, people getting shot and raped in the ED kinda rough (Gaston). I’m an old man now and those are a young man’s game.
 
Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong PEMA. The PEMA I'm talking about staffs many childrens hospitals (Scottish Rite in Atlanta, TC Thompson in Chattanooga, etc.).

The full name was Piedmont Emergency Medicine Associates and they were only active around CLT.

TeamHealth is still TeamHealth. EMP became USACS about 6 years ago. EMCare was bought by Envision. Real stable industry, eh?
 
The full name was Piedmont Emergency Medicine Associates and they were only active around CLT.

TeamHealth is still TeamHealth. EMP became USACS about 6 years ago. EMCare was bought by Envision. Real stable industry, eh?
Emcare wasnt bought by envision.. they only changes their name as they had gotten into the ambulance business. Emcare / envision was bought by KKR. TH bought by Blackstone. USACS/EMP was just a name thing as USACS bought up a bunch of SDGs.

Re value based payment literally I dont know a group that has any significant money at risk in this type of arrangement. Some may be participating in upside only ones. Maybe you are referring to ACOs.

I’m literally sitting here at the ACEP reimbursement conference. Ive been coming 5+ years. The talk has long been there. The reality that few if any participate. No one is participating in one with any downside. At that point is that even real? penetration has been essentially zero.
 
Emcare wasnt bought by envision.. they only changes their name as they had gotten into the ambulance business. Emcare / envision was bought by KKR. TH bought by Blackstone. USACS/EMP was just a name thing as USACS bought up a bunch of SDGs.

Re value based payment literally I dont know a group that has any significant money at risk in this type of arrangement. Some may be participating in upside only ones. Maybe you are referring to ACOs.

I’m literally sitting here at the ACEP reimbursement conference. Ive been coming 5+ years. The talk has long been there. The reality that few if any participate. No one is participating in one with any downside. At that point is that even real? penetration has been essentially zero.

Thanks. I was going to say that EMCare Division bought Phoenix Physicians right after becoming Envision, but never proofed my edit. I was more making a tongue and cheek joke about all of the industry movement over the past year, but I appreciate you keeping me accurate.

As to value-based purchasing, I’m aware that it’s something looming on the horizon for EM. My point being that other specialities seem to be increasingly embracing it, and I think the expectation is that EM will be eventually be brought to the table. I just don’t personally see how SDGs will navigate those waters better than hospital employees or CMGs 5 or 10 years from now.

So, my money is that CMGs will continue to be squeezed. This is mainly because they add an layer of cost with minimal return on efficiency and quality. What I see filling that void is more healthcare system employment of EPs, not the rebirth of SDGs. This is a process that may take a decade or more but it seems to be playing out in front of me. Large, academic health systems are using their EM groups (who are health system employees) as “recon elements” to staff the EDs of smaller community hospitals that are struggling before absorbing them into into the system. They are literally competing against CMGs and SDGs for these contracts. One academic system in NC has nabbed 8 or 9 community contracts over the past 8 years and about half of these hospitals eventually joined the system. Now that system is looking to join an even larger system that will make it one of the nation’s top 10 in dollars (~$14 Billion)

Granted, this may be a local or temporary phenomenon, so I’m open to the possibility that my prediction will be dead wrong.
 
Last edited:
Thanks. I was going to say that EMCare Division bought Phoenix Physicians right after becoming Envision, but never proofed my edit. I was more making a tongue and cheek joke about all of the industry movement over the past year, but I appreciate you keeping me accurate.

As to value-based purchasing, I’m aware that it’s something looming on the horizon for EM. My point being that other specialities seem to be increasingly embracing it, and I think the expectation is that EM will be eventually be brought to the table. I just don’t personally see how SDGs will navigate those waters better than hospital employees or CMGs 5 or 10 years from now.

So, my money is that CMGs will continue to be squeezed. This is mainly because they add an layer of cost with minimal return on efficiency and quality. What I see filling that void is more healthcare system employment of EPs, not the rebirth of SDGs. This is a process that may take a decade or more but it seems to be playing out in front of me. Large, academic health systems are using their EM groups (who are health system employees) as “recon elements” to staff the EDs of smaller community hospitals that are struggling before absorbing them into into the system. They are literally competing against CMGs and SDGs for these contracts. One academic system in NC has nabbed 8 or 9 community contracts over the past 8 years and about half of this hospitals eventually joined the system.

Granted, this may be a local or temporary phenomenon, so I’m open to the possibility that my prediction will be dead wrong.
Agreed. Many hospital systems are trying to hire their own docs. It’s not legal in some states btw.
The issue is from knowing a lot of folks who are hospital employees they hospitals do a bad job at billing for em services.
I do think if they try to do more care coordination they will try to hire ed docs. The issue they may run into is having the hospital practicing medicine and the fat lawsuits that come with that and stark laws.
Only time will tell if we end up with a fat pay cut we will all suffer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Thanks. I was going to say that EMCare Division bought Phoenix Physicians right after becoming Envision, but never proofed my edit. I was more making a tongue and cheek joke about all of the industry movement over the past year, but I appreciate you keeping me accurate.

As to value-based purchasing, I’m aware that it’s something looming on the horizon for EM. My point being that other specialities seem to be increasingly embracing it, and I think the expectation is that EM will be eventually be brought to the table. I just don’t personally see how SDGs will navigate those waters better than hospital employees or CMGs 5 or 10 years from now.

So, my money is that CMGs will continue to be squeezed. This is mainly because they add an layer of cost with minimal return on efficiency and quality. What I see filling that void is more healthcare system employment of EPs, not the rebirth of SDGs. This is a process that may take a decade or more but it seems to be playing out in front of me. Large, academic health systems are using their EM groups (who are health system employees) as “recon elements” to staff the EDs of smaller community hospitals that are struggling before absorbing them into into the system. They are literally competing against CMGs and SDGs for these contracts. One academic system in NC has nabbed 8 or 9 community contracts over the past 8 years and about half of these hospitals eventually joined the system. Now that system is looking to join an even larger system that will make it one of the nation’s top 10 in dollars (~$14 Billion)

Granted, this may be a local or temporary phenomenon, so I’m open to the possibility that my prediction will be dead wrong.

This would be great for docs living there
 
Agreed. Many hospital systems are trying to hire their own docs. It’s not legal in some states btw.
The issue is from knowing a lot of folks who are hospital employees they hospitals do a bad job at billing for em services.
I do think if they try to do more care coordination they will try to hire ed docs. The issue they may run into is having the hospital practicing medicine and the fat lawsuits that come with that and stark laws.
Only time will tell if we end up with a fat pay cut we will all suffer.

Becoming a hospital employee isn't great either. I like having the CMG/buffer there to run interference with the hospital. When you are directly hospital employed, you are really beholden to any arbitrary metrics that hospital admin comes up with. I've also found that they determine staffing, and the midlevels no long become accountable, as they are employed by the hospital and not the doctors.
 
My personal experience has been that the ability, temperament, and status within the hospital of one’s Chair or Director is far more predictive of doctor happiness than employment type be it employee, contractor, SDG, or CMG. Capable ED Chairs/Directors who are respected throughout the hospital make life easy; pushovers who fold like a cheap lawn chair are a nightmare. YMMV.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
My personal experience has been that the ability, temperament, and status within the hospital of one’s Chair or Director is far more predictive of doctor happiness than employment type be it employee, contractor, SDG, or CMG. Capable ED Chairs/Directors who are respected throughout the hospital make life easy; pushovers who fold like a cheap lawn chair are a nightmare. YMMV.

Agreed. I often advise residents on job interviews to ask about hospital leadership positions held by the ED group. Obviously not a perfect indicator, but if you hear that the Hospital’s Chief of Staff is part of the ED group, there is at least some base level of respect and political capital built up by the group. I also think hospital involvement shows more contract stability (though that can always change).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Important thread. It certainly looks like the job market has been cornered, and hourly rates may be at a decline. This in itself does not have to be a deal breaker if you can figure out a side gig that replaces the lost income. Keep socking away until you hit FI, then hard exit. At least that's what I'd like to do, question is what side gig and how.

Had a expert witness gig fall into my lap by dumb luck, and got paid decently for it. For those that do this sort of thing on a regular basis, do you only get a few cases per year followed by dry spells, or all the cases you could possibly handle? Can an EP who doesn't have mad credentials like being on academic faculty, or being double boarded etc be able to have a go at it successfully?
 
Pretty random in my experience but I do zero promotion of my expert work. Most of my cases come from a large defense firm in an adjoining state. Just get random emails asking me to do reviews. A firm here in town emailed my ED director and he connected me with them. That firm wanted to pay less than my usual rate but since I didn’t have to travel for anything I said sure. I have 3 active cases now, the most I’ve ever had. I think in general firms don’t like it if you do a ton and are a professional expert.


Important thread. It certainly looks like the job market has been cornered, and hourly rates may be at a decline. This in itself does not have to be a deal breaker if you can figure out a side gig that replaces the lost income. Keep socking away until you hit FI, then hard exit. At least that's what I'd like to do, question is what side gig and how.

Had a expert witness gig fall into my lap by dumb luck, and got paid decently for it. For those that do this sort of thing on a regular basis, do you only get a few cases per year followed by dry spells, or all the cases you could possibly handle? Can an EP who doesn't have mad credentials like being on academic faculty, or being double boarded etc be able to have a go at it successfully?
 
Last edited:
Pretty random in my experience but I do zero promotion of my expert work. Most of my cases come from a large defense firm in an adjoining state. Just get random emails asking me to do reviews. A firm here in town emailed my ED director and he connected me with them. That firm wanted to pay less than my usual rate but since I didn’t have to travel for anything I said sure. I have 3 active cases now, the most I’ve ever had. I think In general firms don’t like it you do a ton and are a professional expert.

Are you doing defense or plaintiff reviews as an expert witness? Seems defense would be harder to come buy, plaintiff are a dime a dozen?
 
Has anyone had any experience consulting for medical device companies?

I know lots of docs in fields like GI and Ortho consult with companies that make various devices like scopes or implants.
 
No experience whatsoever, but that sounds like a good idea, particularly with regards to airway equipment...
 
Also, has anyone tried SEAK? Any success with landing a side gig? For anyone curious, SEAK, INC.
 
Has anyone had any experience consulting for medical device companies?

I know lots of docs in fields like GI and Ortho consult with companies that make various devices like scopes or implants.

I've done the tiniest bit for a small company that I think has since ceased to exist. It came to me through a personal contact. While it was fun, I could definitely see them trying to use you as a shill if you chose to go too far down the rabbit hole.

I know of two EM docs who do this more regularly. One is a .75 FTE researcher who is extremely well published in a very focused area, the other is somebody who had a personal connection and ended up getting equity in a company in exchange for consulting (a lot). Without personal connections or a significant research or other national presence it seems tougher to get into this from EM. After all, we don't have expensive single-use toys we as a field exclusively use. We also don't really make purchasing decisions on things for the most part.

On the other hand an average orthopod will implant lots of hardware that they may actually have some choice in selecting. IE they have several choices of what company's hardware they'll use in a fusion. And the orthopod may "consult" on a screw design for a given company and get paid 100k...and you can bet that orthopod will then use those screws more (ie think there have been articles on this). So while sometimes device consulting is legit, other times it's not and basically a way for a device company to acquire some market share.
 
Side gig update:

I recently started an affiliate travel website that is a meta search engine that is now starting to gain traction. It's basically like trivago/kayak etc and searches and compares 100s of travel sites simultaneously and essentially finds users the best prices for hotels and flights. Just like trivago, if you search a hotel, my website will compare the price of it from all the big sites (expedia, booking.com, hotels.com, zenhotels, priceline, agoda etc). It does the same with flights. The user essentially picks which website they want to go to and the website gets a referral percentage if the user ends up doing a purchase at the destination site. If you're curious, roughly 6% for hotels, 2 percent for flights, 6-8 percent for car rentals.

Losing money right now to build the brand, have a guy working 20 hr/wk doing SEO work at ~4/hr on the other side of the world and a girl writing weekly blog posts for $5/post that i just edit and post. I can personally do those things, but it's not worth my time. My two shifts salary is roughly more than the cost i will incur for the two employees working all year round. SEO has been going on for 1 month now and beginning to see organic traffic ~ 100-150 visitors a day. Which is almost nothing in the grand scheme, but the site is barely 1 month old now.

I'm doing social media marketing myself on my days off - and roughly have 22k followers on Facebook, 5k Twitter and minimal insta and other places. Starting to get to a point where any Facebook post generates 10-15 website visits and leads. I roughly post 4-5 times a week.

Grand plan: SEO over 5 years. I'm willing to give this project 5k annually (cost of writer and SEO guy annually). From my understanding organic traffic picks up significantly after a year. If after 5 years im getting 50k monthly visits, I'll probably be generating a few grand a month extra. Which isn't much, but it will be fairly passive income as i personally don't consider posting on Twitter or Facebook from home as work. And a few grand a month extra basically is sufficient for me to retire at any time in my home country and live luxuriously. Plus, i have an aggressive savings rate of 40-50 percent from my family income of ~500k, all of which was originally going towards debt but will now start going towards savings starting next month (student loans are officially paid off fully today after 6 attending paychecks - total debt paid ~195k or so - more on that in a separate post).

Im not posting the name of the site as I'm not going to promote it openly like that, and it's probably against forum rules, but if anyone wants to know they can PM me.

Get out while you can, find the entrepreneur in you, make opportunities, take some risks and explore. Our jobs are hard and burn out is real. You're smart enough to be a doctor, then you're probably smart enough to do other things as well.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
Cyanide, are you renting a place to live or buying?
 
Top