What is your rich life like?

[dchristismi]

My rich life is also right now.
I apprenticed into a subspecialty, did a back-door board (HMDC) and see patients, but am very niche. I negotiated a 0.8 FTE inpatient hospice gig where I only see the sickest of the sick. I have a mini ICU with no monitors. I palliate suffering and even though I stare death in the face every day, I read a healthy amount of Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus and try to, as Marcus would say, "do my job." My EM skills come in handy helping families with all the dynamics I used to see in the ER, magnified 100x, but I rarely have to tell a mother that her child has died because usually she already knows its coming. Are there long, hard days? Sure. But the bad days are nothing like a bad day in the pit. And the good days are short and sweet.

When I "retired" from EM, I had enough of a nest egg to walk away but I still had to grieve who I was. I also have the financial security to travel, and yep, I travel epically. My parents are still healthy enough to travel with me, and my whole family went to Spain and Morocco last year. We are doing a similar big trip this summer (except my sister can't come this time) but mom and dad, myself and my husband are going to start in London and follow the Western Front across Belgium and France, and then for grins, my brother and SIL are joining us for wine festivals in Germany, Oktoberfest and then a pilgrimage to Andechs to scatter more of my late brother's ashes. Because life IS short. And my stepkids are alright, and stepdaughter is expecting baby #2 this summer, and right now, the universe is ok. It might not be ok tomorrow, and if it isn't, we will roll with it then.

There is something to be said for a gratitude practice.
Of course, there is also something to be said for life experience and seeing all the awful things that can happen in an instant.

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[miacomet]

My "rich life" is my life now. Not because my life is perfect. It's not. And not because there are things I want that I don't have. There are. But it's because when I was younger, I longed for the independence and financial security I only now have. And I know that when I'm elderly, I'll crave the health and (relative) youth I still have, while being middle age. I have my health. My family is healthy. My kids have turned out great (so far, knock on wood). And I'm married to someone who's really good for me. Some days I think, "If I died today, I'll die a very happy man. I have everything man could want." So why crave more? Sometimes, it makes sense to be supremely grateful for everything you do have and for things that have gone right, and for things that could have been wrong, that didn't. It's a blessing to even be able to take a breathe in this mysterious, complex, and expansive universe that we find ourselves in. I haven't always felt this way. I won't always feel this way. So, it makes sense to appreciate now, for what it is.

When is your podcast starting?

 

[WilcoWorld]

Sometimes, it makes sense to be supremely grateful for everything you do have and for things that have gone right, and for things that could have been wrong, that didn't. It's a blessing to even be able to take a breathe in this mysterious, complex, and expansive universe that we find ourselves in.

Today, like every day, is a great day to contemplate this.

 

[WilcoWorld]

I stare death in the face every day

It really is a gift, isn't it?

Those of us who are fortunate enough to encounter death in the way you and I (HPM) do benefit doubly - we gain perspective that helps us appreciate the life we're living and we gain perspective that can make death less terrifying.

A rich life indeed.

 

[HemorrhagicShock]

I only work nights and most of my shifts are on the weekends so I can be available administratively during the week (all by my choice, I get to make my own schedule). I've tried working days, I can't do it. The ED is so loud and there is so many people. I can't concentrate in that setting. I'm a nightowl anyways. Now, I realize I don't work the same number of shifts as a full-time non-academic, so maybe working way more nights would kill me. But IDK, I just have never ever been able to tolerate day shifts.

If you don't mind me asking how old are you? Do you feel this is sustainable for a reasonable period of time (say, for another 5 years?)

How about the idea that you're giving up the majority of your weekends? Do you feel like you're missing out on a variety of experiences given that most of the country works on a 9-5 M-F schedule with weekends off?

Lastly, switching that many times during the month must be terrible if you're administratively available (I assume) every week. How has that been and do you find that sustainable?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

If you don't mind me asking how old are you? Do you feel this is sustainable for a reasonable period of time (say, for another 5 years?)

How about the idea that you're giving up the majority of your weekends? Do you feel like you're missing out on a variety of experiences given that most of the country works on a 9-5 M-F schedule with weekends off?

Lastly, switching that many times during the month must be terrible if you're administratively available (I assume) every week. How has that been and do you find that sustainable?

As a PD, my time is 50/50 clinical admin, so I only work 8 shifts a month. That makes it pretty manageable. But for the 12 years before I was a PD, I only worked nights on a full-time schedule. One of my concerns about becoming a PD was how the admin part of the job was going to allow me to keep working nights but honestly, its been really easy to adapt. I've adopted a split sleeping schedule anyways, and that has done wonders for my energy on shift. I lay down at 6pm, sleep anywhere from 1-3 hours, wake up at 9pm and head into work by 10. When I get home, I sleep as long as I sleep, but it usually is only 3-4 hours because I already preslept. After my last night shift, I just go to bed at a normal time once I get tired, say around 9pm and sleep all night, then I'm right back on a day schedule.

Before adopting split sleeping for nights, I used to try to remain nocturnal at all times. But honestly, I almost always kind of felt terrible from never getting sleep in the evenings.

Split sleeping may not be for everyone depending on evening obligations and your own physiology, but if you have to work some nights, I think everyone should at least try it.

As for the weekend thing, I'm nearly 45. I don't do much on the weekends. To me, everyday is the same. Honestly, my biggest hobby is golf and the course is way more open on a weekday compared to a weekend anyways. I still have some weekends off though, its not every one.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

More of this wholesome content please!

Things can always be "better." The number in the net worth box can always be higher.

There's a reason why the blue zones are in regions that aren't filthy rich financially.

I am rich. I have the freedom to do what I want and pursue my hobbies. I lift, I garden (love me mint!), I travel, I play board and video games (currently obsessed with tears of the kingdom). I have a beautiful child whom i love with everything. I have a supportive and caring partner.

I have all my finances on auto pilot. I used to mess with stock picking and crypto, had mild success. The juice isnt worth the squeeze. All indexes from here on out.

Yeah I gotta work 13 shifts a month in the ED. I don't really like it. There's small wins here and there tho. They call it work for a reason. It allows me to have the freedom that I do and support my family.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Also wanted to add:

I've made a conscious effort to get better at just doing what I need to do at work to get through the shift and get out. This has been a learned skill for me over 5 years as an attending and i still need to get better.

I work at my own pace, largely ignore admin, drown out peripheral static, disregard the "fires" happening that dont directly involve me, don't care about "operations."

They say we are looked to as "leaders" and need to be more "involved" to "drive" the department. Yeah nah. If you want me to be the CEO of the ED, pay me like it, and give me actual authority. Until then, I'll be the silent cog, moving my widgets, getting out of my shift, right on time, with minimal moral injury, and turning my attention to the people and things in my life that actually matter.

 

[WilcoWorld]

If you want me to be the CEO of the ED... give me actual authority.

Convincing them to feel responsible for things they can not impact is the greatest trick Kaiser Soze ever played on ER docs.

 

[gomavs]

The ability to play golf twice a week, be able to have two kids that can go to public college debt free. Take my wife on trips occasionally. That’s all I ask. Is that so much? (Yes)

 

[CajunMedic]

I feel like I'm living it right now...

A little about my background for context. I've worked on towboats on the MS River and intracoastal waterway. I've been effectively homeless, not knowing where my next meal was coming from and dumpster diving for food. Been in the military. Lived paycheck to paycheck for most of my adult life until I became an attending.

I have a W2 CMG job with pretty good insurance. Work anywhere from 10-14 shifts a month, 10 minutes from my house. I've got a great paid EMS medical director gig, with a couple more agencies in the works.

It's been the little things that make me feel rich. Grocery shopping without doing the mental math of how much and what I may have to put back. Filling my car up completely. Not worrying about the prices on the menu at a nice restaurant. Going to my favorite hobby shop and buying whatever I want for my Lionel Train collection if I've got some extra cash. I drive a nice car, her and I each have a weekend toy in the garage

But the biggest one was a couple of weeks ago. My wife's health has had some serious issues since her birthday in January. She kept working to keep things afloat and us in heath insurance after my academic gig went from W2 to IC, SDG to CMG, and then up in flames in a span of 90 days leaving me to scramble to pick up shifts at my PT gig to pay the bills. We figured out we could comfortably afford for her to quit her job to focus on her health and recovering from her upcoming surgeries.

Eventually, We'll be debt-free with a comfortable retirement, second home in a Latitude Margaritaville community, and a Lamborghini Urus in the driveway. But, we're pretty happy the way things are right now.

 

[RoyBasch]

Also wanted to add:

I've made a conscious effort to get better at just doing what I need to do at work to get through the shift and get out. This has been a learned skill for me over 5 years as an attending and i still need to get better.

I work at my own pace, largely ignore admin, drown out peripheral static, disregard the "fires" happening that dont directly involve me, don't care about "operations."

They say we are looked to as "leaders" and need to be more "involved" to "drive" the department. Yeah nah. If you want me to be the CEO of the ED, pay me like it, and give me actual authority. Until then, I'll be the silent cog, moving my widgets, getting out of my shift, right on time, with minimal moral injury, and turning my attention to the people and things in my life that actually matter.

I’m trying to do this too, it’s hard. This concept didn’t really occur to me until I was about 5 years post residency, still been working on it the last few years.

 

[HemorrhagicShock]

I’m trying to do this too, it’s hard. This concept didn’t really occur to me until I was about 5 years post residency, still been working on it the last few years.

My experience is in line with yours. Despite understanding that this is the "One True Philosophy" to survive in community EM it's so hard to break old habits that were conditioned through medical school, residency, and early attending practice.

The hardest part is understanding that moral injury comes down to a system that flies in the face of our moral compass that led us to become physicians in the first place. Ultimately the docs who can overcome this are the ones who can compartmentalize their role in the system, and employ empathy tactically, rather than truly and deeply.

It's realizing that the pendulum must necessarily shift from "a calling" to "a job." I know this is debated hotly in EM, but I think medicine USED to be a calling when society and payors held it up as such. Going the extra mile for patients and your team was a noble endeavor, and you were rewarded handsomely for it.

None of those rewards really exist anymore beyond a solid paycheck, but the 20+ year trend has suggested even our pay hasn't budged compared to inflation and the costs of running a practice.

The only rational conclusion is to take the PandaBear Zen on-shift approach and realize that the most important goal is to leave on time.

 

[WilcoWorld]

My experience is in line with yours. Despite understanding that this is the "One True Philosophy" to survive in community EM it's so hard to break old habits that were conditioned through medical school, residency, and early attending practice.

The hardest part is understanding that moral injury comes down to a system that flies in the face of our moral compass that led us to become physicians in the first place. Ultimately the docs who can overcome this are the ones who can compartmentalize their role in the system, and employ empathy tactically, rather than truly and deeply.

It's realizing that the pendulum must necessarily shift from "a calling" to "a job." I know this is debated hotly in EM, but I think medicine USED to be a calling when society and payors held it up as such. Going the extra mile for patients and your team was a noble endeavor, and you were rewarded handsomely for it.

None of those rewards really exist anymore beyond a solid paycheck, but the 20+ year trend has suggested even our pay hasn't budged compared to inflation and the costs of running a practice.

The only rational conclusion is to take the PandaBear Zen on-shift approach and realize that the most important goal is to leave on time.

I don't mean to tell you how to be well, only you can determine that for yourself, but this approach didn't work for me. Trying to keep the emotions from affecting me caused me to burn out. Now I allow the job to impact me, and I actually feel better. What I had to learn was to recognize the distinction between what I can and what I can not change - essentially the serenity prayer.

So, yeah, I do allow the sad story of the 45 yo father of 4 who comes in in full arrest affect me. But I also am able to allow the criticisms from a person with a personality disorder to roll off my back. The only fake emotions I display now are feigned concern when the House Supervisor comes down to the ED & wants to "huddle" so we can address the metrics. I make a serious face and nod for a minute, then I excuse myself "to attend to an urgent patient care need" and thank them for their input. Then I go back to working as I see fit.

 

[emergentmd]

Investing like almost everything in life is a spectrum. With investing there is the zero risk all the way to the highest risk being Burying cash to putting everything picking lottery numbers. All other investments are in between and everyone's definition of risk is different.

Everyone bagging on @cyanide is missing the point. Of course his plan of 30% YOY is not super low risk but to him it is low risk when weighing against his perceived higher returns. That is his point. Its a relatively low risk for the higher rewards. This is all about risk tolerance and everyone's is different. My risk tolerance is HIGH and I am willing to lose it all to hit homers when I see the risk is worth it.

I know what he is doing and his risk is higher than just putting it in index funds. Absolutely it is. BUT his upside reward is higher than the increase risk. Think of it as One being average. If his rewards is 3x and his risk is 1.1X then now his one average is 2.7x which for him is well worth it. Someone else looking at the same may not agree but he is inherently not wrong. He is only explaining what he would do that works for him.

 

[emergentmd]

I’m trying to do this too, it’s hard. This concept didn’t really occur to me until I was about 5 years post residency, still been working on it the last few years

Let me give you an advice I tell my kids all the time. This has served me well in everything in life especially work. Once you get it, your life will be much less stressful. I tell them everything in life is a cheat code and you just need to find the cheat codes in everything you do.

1. If you can fix the problem, then FIX it so nothing to worry about.
2. If you can not fix the problem, then Don't worry about it. Worrying does not make the problem any better.

When I was director of my ER, issues arose all the time. If I could fix it, I just fix it then move on. If I could not, I don't worry about it. Never took work home, never lost sleep over it. I'm Engineer trained and this is probably where this comes from as it is very binary.

Now that I manage our FSER, it is the same. When problems arise, then I fix it. If its not fixable, then this is just the new normal.

 

[miacomet]

Let me give you an advice I tell my kids all the time. This has served me well in everything in life especially work. Once you get it, your life will be much less stressful. I tell them everything in life is a cheat code and you just need to find the cheat codes in everything you do.

1. If you can fix the problem, then FIX it so nothing to worry about.
2. If you can not fix the problem, then Don't worry about it. Worrying does not make the problem any better.

When I was director of my ER, issues arose all the time. If I could fix it, I just fix it then move on. If I could not, I don't worry about it. Never took work home, never lost sleep over it. I'm Engineer trained and this is probably where this comes from as it is very binary.

Now that I manage our FSER, it is the same. When problems arise, then I fix it. If its not fixable, then this is just the new normal.

This is an amazing skill, like being able to sleep anywhere. A superpower.

 

[emergentmd]

This is an amazing skill, like being able to sleep anywhere. A superpower.

Funny you bring this up. I can sleep anywhere and almost any time because my mind is not always thinking about a problem. I take 1-2 hr naps almost every day when I am not working or have a busy family schedule.

My wife was extremely irritated when we first got married. When we had an argument, she was madly frustrated that I could argue then sleep right after when the argument wasn't resolved. Or I would fall asleep right in the middle of an argument.

My mind just can not wrap itself around losing sleep over issues that are either small or not fixable.

Now we rarely fight or lose sleep. I think I have either trained her to think my way or just accept this is how I solve issues. I am OK with having things in my life that I can not fix and just accept it as being the new normal.

I remember when I was med director and metrics came up. Some docs had lofty goals of being the best/having the best numbers, or pissed that they had to deal with metrics. I knew it was something we had to do. So this was the new normal and I just had to be better than the bottom group or best group. I always say being in the middle is not always bad.

 

[3rdJob]

This is an amazing skill, like being able to sleep anywhere. A superpower.

This is DEFINITELY a superpower. Now someone needs to come up with a cool logo and cape....

 

[miacomet]

Funny you bring this up. I can sleep anywhere and almost any time because my mind is not always thinking about a problem. I take 1-2 hr naps almost every day when I am not working or have a busy family schedule.

My wife was extremely irritated when we first got married. When we had an argument, she was madly frustrated that I could argue then sleep right after when the argument wasn't resolved. Or I would fall asleep right in the middle of an argument.

My mind just can not wrap itself around losing sleep over issues that are either small or not fixable.

Now we rarely fight or lose sleep. I think I have either trained her to think my way or just accept this is how I solve issues. I am OK with having things in my life that I can not fix and just accept it as being the new normal.

I remember when I was med director and metrics came up. Some docs had lofty goals of being the best/having the best numbers, or pissed that they had to deal with metrics. I knew it was something we had to do. So this was the new normal and I just had to be better than the bottom group or best group. I always say being in the middle is not always bad.

Not to denigrate your hard work, but honestly I think the secret to your success is the control you have over your own mind with the sleeping and not worrying.

Were you born this way? Zen master? Years of yoga or martial arts?

 

[Birdstrike]

I tell them everything in life is a cheat code and you just need to find the cheat codes in everything you do.

1. If you can fix the problem, then FIX it so nothing to worry about.
2. If you can not fix the problem, then Don't worry about it. Worrying does not make the problem any better.

This is something my father pounded into my head, growing up. It's a very hard thing to internalize, but once you do, it is a superpower. It's also worth noting that even the act of formulating a plan for fixing a problem, often leads to a large reduction in anxiety about the problem, even before it's fixed. Then, once the problem is confronted, more often than not the anticipatory fear, turns out to have been much greater than the problem itself.

I also agree, that naked anxiety without a plan to confront what is causing the anxiety, is one of the most unproductive emotions, humans have. And it is pervasive in today's world. That's not to say that I don't ever have anxiety. I do. But I've learned to have much less by learning to let go of it, in relation to things I can't control, or in relation to things that aren't a threat to the food, clothes, shelter or health of myself and those closest to me. Everything else is what you'll look back at and wonder why you were ever anxious about it.

 

[emergentmd]

I remember when I took the MCAT, scores came and back in the day was mailed. Scores came in mail, Left it on the counter, went on vacation with the family. Scores never even entered my mind. My friends thought I was crazy not to open it up and it didn't even bother me when people bought it up. Even when schools were calling Med school acceptance, my parents told me I had a message. Check the message that I was accepted that was about a week old.

To me, knowing the score changed nothing that could not wait a week. I always thought it was strange when some had to know any of their tests scores once it was posted. Back in the day, tests scores was posted in glass board with the last 4 of your SS#. Once it was posted, everyone swarmed the board. I went and checked it the next time I went to class and sometimes didn't even think about it until weeks after.

 

[emergentmd]

This is something my father pounded into my head, growing up. It's a very hard thing to internalize, but once you do, it is a superpower. It's also worth noting that even the act of formulating a plan for fixing a problem, often leads to a large reduction in anxiety about the problem, even before it's fixed. Then, once the problem is confronted, more often than not the anticipatory fear, turns out to have been much greater than the problem itself.

I do this with my kids all the time. They get stressed out about grades or something really silly, and I tell them; does worrying about it help or fix the problem, answer typically no. Then I say, if you can't fix it and worrying doesn't make the problem better, then just move on. Learn from your mistake is all you can do. I don't like to join pity parties when nothing can be done.

 

[gutonc]

I remember when I took the MCAT, scores came and back in the day was mailed. Scores came in mail, Left it on the counter, went on vacation with the family. Scores never even entered my mind. My friends thought I was crazy not to open it up and it didn't even bother me when people bought it up. Even when schools were calling Med school acceptance, my parents told me I had a message. Check the message that I was accepted that was about a week old.

To me, knowing the score changed nothing that could not wait a week. I always thought it was strange when some had to know any of their tests scores once it was posted. Back in the day, tests scores was posted in glass board with the last 4 of your SS#. Once it was posted, everyone swarmed the board. I went and checked it the next time I went to class and sometimes didn't even think about it until weeks after.

This drove my pre-med college roommates insane. We’d all take the same test, they’d hang out by the professor’s office until grades were posted like they were camping out waiting for Rolling Stones tickets and then race back to our place to ask how I did on the whatever exam.

Me: “I have no idea, I’ll check it next time I’m on that side of campus.”

What’s done is done. I clearly did the best I could and nothing I can do now will change that. It’s why I love the fact that all of our exams in medicine have delayed results. My partner is a nurse and all of her tests give immediate feedback. If that were true for board exams I’d click done on the test and walk away as fast as possible.

 

[namethatsmell]

I admit that my definition of a "rich life" continues to be a moving goal post.

I am blessed. I have an amazing family and I love them deeply. My kids are under 3yo so they're require a lot of time and energy. Juggling irreplaceable family time, work, and all the necessary life/house stuff is pretty exhausting. Spouse and I both work FT, so free time is scarce and precious. Depending on ROI, we're on track to reach a comfortable FI number in 7 +/- 2 years. So a "rich life" is somehow finding a way to keep everything in balance...nothing more, nothing less.

 

[miacomet]

I admit that my definition of a "rich life" continues to be a moving goal post.

I am blessed. I have an amazing family and I love them deeply. My kids are under 3yo so they're require a lot of time and energy. Juggling irreplaceable family time, work, and all the necessary life/house stuff is pretty exhausting. Spouse and I both work FT, so free time is scarce and precious. Depending on ROI, we're on track to reach a comfortable FI number in 7 +/- 2 years. So a "rich life" is somehow finding a way to keep everything in balance...nothing more, nothing less.

What happens at FI? Quit? Cut down? Have options?

Strong work, btw

 

[RoyBasch]

I display now are feigned concern when the House Supervisor comes down to the ED & wants to "huddle" so we can address the metrics. I make a serious face and nod for a minute, then I excuse myself "to attend to an urgent patient care need" and thank them for their input. Then I go back to working as I see fit.

Too real

 

[lp430]

Ironically, my life has become more "rich" the less I worry about money. I am happier now than when I was earning almost twice as much. I live in a beautiful place and am able to enjoy many things outside of work. I am still trying to find my sweet spot with work, but for now, am grateful to have a flexible schedule and plenty of time off.
Another big key for me was addressing my mental health. Overcoming the stigma and actually seeking help did wonders for my life.

 

[miacomet]

My rich life would be finding a clinical career that's not EM. I thought it would be possible, but it's hard. NPs we are not, they want us in the ER or not working.

 

[RoyBasch]

Ironically, my life has become more "rich" the less I worry about money. I am happier now than when I was earning almost twice as much. I live in a beautiful place and am able to enjoy many things outside of work. I am still trying to find my sweet spot with work, but for now, am grateful to have a flexible schedule and plenty of time off.
Another big key for me was addressing my mental health. Overcoming the stigma and actually seeking help did wonders for my life.

Are you working part time in EM or something else?

 

[lp430]

Are you working part time in EM or something else?

I have 2 part time jobs, working around full-time hours. I used to travel, but got tired of it. Plus, the politics aren't great these days in a lot of the places I get offers to work.
Instead of trying to figure everything out at once, I have started to ask myself "what is the next best step?" I feel like I made this decision to become a doctor when I was 19 and spent a decade plus chasing it. I'm taking smaller, more intentional steps these days, which I think will lead me more and more out of the pit. Where? Not entirely sure, but I have some ideas.

 

[Splenda88]

Funny you bring this up. I can sleep anywhere and almost any time because my mind is not always thinking about a problem. I take 1-2 hr naps almost every day when I am not working or have a busy family schedule.

My wife was extremely irritated when we first got married. When we had an argument, she was madly frustrated that I could argue then sleep right after when the argument wasn't resolved. Or I would fall asleep right in the middle of an argument.

My mind just can not wrap itself around losing sleep over issues that are either small or not fixable.

Now we rarely fight or lose sleep. I think I have either trained her to think my way or just accept this is how I solve issues. I am OK with having things in my life that I can not fix and just accept it as being the new normal.

I remember when I was med director and metrics came up. Some docs had lofty goals of being the best/having the best numbers, or pissed that they had to deal with metrics. I knew it was something we had to do. So this was the new normal and I just had to be better than the bottom group or best group. I always say being in the middle is not always bad.

You are a champ man.

I have realized people who think medicine is (or should be) a calling are the one who b*** all the time...

I happen to like medicine more than thought I would (strange), but it is still a job.

 

[miacomet]

I have 2 part time jobs, working around full-time hours. I used to travel, but got tired of it. Plus, the politics aren't great these days in a lot of the places I get offers to work.
Instead of trying to figure everything out at once, I have started to ask myself "what is the next best step?" I feel like I made this decision to become a doctor when I was 19 and spent a decade plus chasing it. I'm taking smaller, more intentional steps these days, which I think will lead me more and more out of the pit. Where? Not entirely sure, but I have some ideas.

How did you stop worrying about money? Everything in America costs- health care, education, new cars. Just so many high expenses. How are you managing that?

 

[cyanide12345678]

How did you stop worrying about money? Everything in America costs- health care, education, new cars. Just so many high expenses. How are you managing that?

I used to worry a lot about money. Once i hit 7 figure net worth, i just felt relief and my money worries are slowly going away.

Over the last 15 years, I’ve moved cities every 3-5 years. So in my mind, if i lost my job, and my wife lost her job, and we pretty much had 0 income, we still have the option of moving to a cheaper country and never worrying about money. It’s a good feeling of knowing we will regardless be okay. So worst case scenario, we pack our bags one more time and move.

 

[DocEspana]

Rather than share my rich life.... which would be so wordy and not fun to read:

After watching that Ramit Sethi show, my wife and I decided to actually be more vocal about our finances. Talk about them. Track them. Quantify them. Im one of the lucky ones with enough shifts to keep me busy half the month and enough pay per hour to make that very lucrative. We don't have money 'issues' beyond simply having so much that it seems silly to not spend it on frugalities since the important stuff is all fully invested into and paid off already. But we still never talked about it. Never understood it. I could be making 200k or 2 million and my wife would never know because I would bitch about anything she spent, but then happily plan top end vacations a few times a year which contradicted my bitching about a dress or shoes.

That show made us talk. made us be honest. made us be open. It also did amazing things for our marriage. She respects so much more what I do and how much work it takes to get there. She knew I gave her parents (who are older immigrants) money but never realized how much. She stopped spending money frivolously and I stopped trying to impress her with expensive shows of things when she admitted shes just as happy with a more middle class life. Its made US much happier. Made US much closer. And changed so many of our habits for the better, to the point where we realized we would never want for money but would also never have *excess* to buy new investments unless we could save more monthly. We decided to actually massively cutback on discretionary spending, move to a smaller rented place, and rent our highly desirable-location house because it rents for $$$ and we only need $ to live somewhere else. We are taking all that extra money and getting ready to start buying more property and diversify our income into real estate so that my exit plan from medicine in 20ish years is clear.

Its too ingrained in me, and I'm sure most people, to be secretive and guarded with finances even with those you should be closest with. I'm glad that helped change that in me and us. Its been a blessing.

 

[emergentmd]

Rather than share my rich life.... which would be so wordy and not fun to read:

After watching that Ramit Sethi show, my wife and I decided to actually be more vocal about our finances. Talk about them. Track them. Quantify them. Im one of the lucky ones with enough shifts to keep me busy half the month and enough pay per hour to make that very lucrative. We don't have money 'issues' beyond simply having so much that it seems silly to not spend it on frugalities since the important stuff is all fully invested into and paid off already. But we still never talked about it. Never understood it. I could be making 200k or 2 million and my wife would never know because I would bitch about anything she spent, but then happily plan top end vacations a few times a year which contradicted my bitching about a dress or shoes.

That show made us talk. made us be honest. made us be open. It also did amazing things for our marriage. She respects so much more what I do and how much work it takes to get there. She knew I gave her parents (who are older immigrants) money but never realized how much. She stopped spending money frivolously and I stopped trying to impress her with expensive shows of things when she admitted shes just as happy with a more middle class life. Its made US much happier. Made US much closer. And changed so many of our habits for the better, to the point where we realized we would never want for money but would also never have *excess* to buy new investments unless we could save more monthly. We decided to actually massively cutback on discretionary spending, move to a smaller rented place, and rent our highly desirable-location house because it rents for $$$ and we only need $ to live somewhere else. We are taking all that extra money and getting ready to start buying more property and diversify our income into real estate so that my exit plan from medicine in 20ish years is clear.

Its too ingrained in me, and I'm sure most people, to be secretive and guarded with finances even with those you should be closest with. I'm glad that helped change that in me and us. Its been a blessing.

We have similar issues and sometimes a step back helps with perspective. I used to be aggravated by perceived waste esp from my wife's spending/giving. But looking at the situation at from a 3rd person view helps. Its hard to get aggravated when she is throwing about $100 here and there when we can go on 20K vacations or buying 70K boat which doesn't bother me.

I have accepted that we can't save everything, waste is OK, and best to work alittle extra to pay for things I would not spend on.

 

[Splenda88]

I will stop worrying about money when my net worth is 2+ mil with a paid off home. As of now, I will keep watching my spouse spending like a hawk.

 

[miacomet]

I will stop worrying about money when my net worth is 2+ mil with a paid off home. As of now, I will keep watching my spouse spending like a hawk.

I really think it's 5mm plus....

 

[miacomet]

We have similar issues and sometimes a step back helps with perspective. I used to be aggravated by perceived waste esp from my wife's spending/giving. But looking at the situation at from a 3rd person view helps. Its hard to get aggravated when she is throwing about $100 here and there when we can go on 20K vacations or buying 70K boat which doesn't bother me.

I have accepted that we can't save everything, waste is OK, and best to work alittle extra to pay for things I would not spend on.

Yeah, I mean, to me a 70k boat is waste, and giving is rarely waste. Everyone has different money values.

Also, this is a notable and common gender divide. Men often consider things like boats justifiable, but claim their wives are the big spenders because they buy clothes, beauty stuff etc. Often it's the men who are actually the big spenders, yet they blame $100 purchases from their wives.

 

[WilcoWorld]

Yeah, I mean, to me a 70k boat is waste, and giving is rarely waste. Everyone has different money values.

A friend of mine (who has more wealth than I do) gave me some good advice on purchasing means of locomotion (context - I was telling him that my daughter is getting into horseback riding):

If it floats, flies or f*cks...rent it.

 

[Splenda88]

I really think it's 5mm plus....

2+ mil is ok for me since I will keep working. I dont have expensive taste but my spouse does to a certain extent.

Will definitely retire with 5mil plus.

 

[miacomet]

2+ mil is ok for me since I will keep working. I dont have expensive taste but my spouse does to a certain extent.

Will definitely retire with 5mil plus.

Ahh, hard to do, but if you have a tolerable gig, that's great

 

[Mount Asclepius]

Spending problem, not an earnings problem.

 

[xaelia]

I will stop worrying about money when my net worth is 2+ mil with a paid off home. As of now, I will keep watching my spouse spending like a hawk.

My wife makes more money than I do.

Cool, cool.

 

[Splenda88]

Ahh, hard to do, but if you have a tolerable gig, that's great

I am a hospitalist. My gig is ok. I actually like my job (and hospital medicine) more than I thought I would.

 

[lp430]

How did you stop worrying about money? Everything in America costs- health care, education, new cars. Just so many high expenses. How are you managing that?

I still have some occasional stress from healthcare expenses, which has been my biggest expense since finishing residency (thanks US healthcare... don't get me started). I paid off most of my med school loans while I was doing locums and didn't have any undergrad debt, thanks to the military.

Otherwise, I moved to a location where I used to vacation regularly. Now, I don't feel the need for lavish vacations, I'll just drive out to the mountains on my days off. I also don't have a lot of expensive hobbies (except tattoos lol). My car is 10+ years old. I thrift a lot for clothes. My partner and I cook most of our own meals. I think living within my means is the biggest thing for me right now.

I don't have any kids and I know that changes a lot. For now, I am leveraging EM to give me the most flexible schedule possible. My jobs don't pay super well so I did a favor to myself and didn't sign a contract that locks me in to a set number of hours (I know there are downsides to this too). After paying the bills, my time is one of the most important things to me.

 

[sloh]

Ramit Sethi lmao

 

[Mount Asclepius]

Living within your means is important. Perhaps more important though is living below your means.

“Live simply so others can simply live.”

Accumulating net worth and building habits of living simply allows for control of your life so that you can ‘live wealthy, not rich.’ Time is money. Try to eventually free up more time stuck in the pit.

Even with a family on an EPs income you can splurge and have some pretty nice things/experiences. You work harder and you can have a little more. You can’t have everything though on an average or even above average EP’s income. Life gets easier the higher you can build up your net worth. It won’t guarantee happiness though if you think a higher net worth is all it will take to be happy.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Ramit Sethi lmaoView attachment 372766

When you've run out of actual useful tips to talk about.

Today's podcast, I go over the hidden dangers of water. We all need water to survive, but paradoxically it could also be your undoing! That's why I call water "the double edged sword." Tune in this week for more.

 

[WilcoWorld]

Living within your means is important. Perhaps more important though is living below your means.

“Live simply so others can simply live.”

Accumulating net worth and building habits of living simply allows for control of your life so that you can ‘live wealthy, not rich.’ Time is money. Try to eventually free up more time stuck in the pit.

Even with a family on an EPs income you can splurge and have some pretty nice things/experiences. You work harder and you can have a little more. You can’t have everything though on an average or even above average EP’s income. Life gets easier the higher you can build up your net worth. It won’t guarantee happiness though if you think a higher net worth is all it will take to be happy.

Through my palliative care practice I have spent hundreds of hours with people on their death beds. I'll give you one guess how many of them said "I wish that I'd worked more".