What is good? Bad? The Ugly and what really matters?

[Loki666]

I am an aspiring ortho candidate and guess what? I am not the perfect medical student. Although I realize many of these supreme medical student beings do exist out there (240+, top 5%, cure for cancer under review at FDA), I am wondering what happens to everybody else?

The Good: I have a 233 USMLE 1, Research with one paper, two US Patents, honors in all 3rd year clerkship (so far). The Bad...crappy GPA (3.2)...The Ugly...crappy class rank, bottom 1/3.

If you guys were in this position, would you punt and choose gen surg, or try ortho despite the Bad and Ugly?

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[Tired]

I am an aspiring ortho candidate and guess what? I am not the perfect medical student. Although I realize many of these supreme medical student beings do exist out there (240+, top 5%, cure for cancer under review at FDA), I am wondering what happens to everybody else?

The Good: I have a 233 USMLE 1, Research with one paper, two US Patents, honors in all 3rd year clerkship (so far). The Bad...crappy GPA (3.2)...The Ugly...crappy class rank, bottom 1/3.

If you guys were in this position, would you punt and choose gen surg, or try ortho despite the Bad and Ugly?

Personally, I would take a shot at it. You published (and patents, very cool), your Step 1 is basically average for successful Ortho applicants, your clinical grades are good. I would slam out 50+ apps, make sure they all get in very very early, and hope for the best.

As for backups, do you want to do Gen Surg? If you can see yourself doing it, go ahead and apply to those as well, obviously you are very competitive for GS.

Just what I would do . . .

 

[PediBoneDoc]

I am an aspiring ortho candidate and guess what? I am not the perfect medical student. Although I realize many of these supreme medical student beings do exist out there (240+, top 5%, cure for cancer under review at FDA), I am wondering what happens to everybody else?

The Good: I have a 233 USMLE 1, Research with one paper, two US Patents, honors in all 3rd year clerkship (so far). The Bad...crappy GPA (3.2)...The Ugly...crappy class rank, bottom 1/3.

If you guys were in this position, would you punt and choose gen surg, or try ortho despite the Bad and Ugly?

you have a reasonable chance. we tend to look at USMLE, 3rd year clerkships a bit more than the first 2 years and class rank. if you get honors in all of your required clinical rotations, your rank will improve significantly

do what you feel is the best for you. if you want it, go full throttle. do your away rotations at places where you want to be and are competitive. if you impress clinically, those 1st 2 years won't matter so much.

 

[arthrodisiac]

how is ur class rank in bottom third if uve gotten all honors in clinical?

anyway, our school didnt have gpa...how is yours calculated...honros 4.0, hp 3.0, p 2.0?

 

[Loki666]

how is ur class rank in bottom third if uve gotten all honors in clinical?

anyway, our school didnt have gpa...how is yours calculated...honros 4.0, hp 3.0, p 2.0?

Well that is a good question. Basically, to make a long story short, my first two years were not so stellar due to military obligations. I had to complete some engineering programs for the Air Force during year one (the B-1 needed to drop bombs on the Taliban and I was in the unenviable position of being able to make that happen). Also, I had to work full time for the Air Force during year two, and subsequently spent two years in combat in Afghanistan after year two (activated reserve). So, I am now back to my academic self and am trying to dig out of the mess from the first two years, yes my GPA is going up, but it was pretty damn far down. The way I have always viewed this is: "It is not the come-up...it is the come-back that counts." Although it is tough seeing my former classmates as interns, I am quite proud of my work in the war and have no regrets.

In case anyone is trying to figure this out, I was an Electronic Warfare Specialist for the military and no...They did not care if I was in Med School or not...they needed EW specialists more than medical people.

We have a standard 4.0 scale.

 

[dpmd]

I was an Electronic Warfare Specialist for the military and no...They did not care if I was in Med School or not...they needed EW specialists more than medical people.

I feel your pain (the army needed a nurse when I was in third year more than they needed a potential doctor in the future). You should go for it if ortho is what you really want (this is coming from someone shot down for ortho twice, I don't regret trying even though it didn't work out). Whether to do g-surg backup will depend on your ability to handle rejection (you are in a good position to get a g-surg spot), and whether you feel you would be happy in either choice. At the very least, you will have some interesting and unique stuff to discuss in your interviews.

 

[Tired]

Well that is a good question. Basically, to make a long story short, my first two years were not so stellar due to military obligations. I had to complete some engineering programs for the Air Force during year one (the B-1 needed to drop bombs on the Taliban and I was in the unenviable position of being able to make that happen). Also, I had to work full time for the Air Force during year two, and subsequently spent two years in combat in Afghanistan after year two (activated reserve). So, I am now back to my academic self and am trying to dig out of the mess from the first two years, yes my GPA is going up, but it was pretty damn far down. The way I have always viewed this is: "It is not the come-up...it is the come-back that counts." Although it is tough seeing my former classmates as interns, I am quite proud of my work in the war and have no regrets.

I would think a story like that would only make your app stronger. You can list your combat ribbons in the Awards section of ERAS. Your interviews will be really cool.

 

[BlondeCookie]

How did you finish in the bottom 1/3 of your class, but manage to score so highly on the USMLE???

 

[Loki666]

How did you finish in the bottom 1/3 of your class, but manage to score so highly on the USMLE???

Well...hmmm...I was basically working fulltime and attending classes full time during the first two years. It all goes back to 09-11 and the towers. I was in a position of need for the Air Force and I could not turn my back on my Country in a time of need. So, I cowboyed up and designed weapons and software while going to med school.

When I returned from the war (I was activated and sent to Afghanistan after Year Two), I had about six weeks to study and take Step one. I had a two year break and it was damn difficult to remember all that data. The key, however, Step one was all I worried about. If I could have only focused on med school during years one and two, no doubt I would be sitting a little higher in the rank. Now that I have done my duty, I am getting honors in the core clerships and have a fairly good USMLE.

Yes it has been a complex winding road. But my miltary duty is behind me and I have no regrets about my work in the War and look forward to switching service to patients rather than the country.

 

[BlondeCookie]

Well...hmmm...I was basically working fulltime and attending classes full time during the first two years. It all goes back to 09-11 and the towers. I was in a position of need for the Air Force and I could not turn my back on my Country in a time of need. So, I cowboyed up and designed weapons and software while going to med school.

When I returned from the war (I was activated and sent to Afghanistan after Year Two), I had about six weeks to study and take Step one. I had a two year break and it was damn difficult to remember all that data. The key, however, Step one was all I worried about. If I could have only focused on med school during years one and two, no doubt I would be sitting a little higher in the rank. Now that I have done my duty, I am getting honors in the core clerships and have a fairly good USMLE.

Yes it has been a complex winding road. But my miltary duty is behind me and I have no regrets about my work in the War and look forward to switching service to patients rather than the country.

That's quite an impressive story. To have to go through all that and still pull a top score is remarkable indeed.

 

[Loki666]

That's quite an impressive story. To have to go through all that and still pull a top score is remarkable indeed.

I guess what I have learned from all of this is:

Sometimes you get caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.

Anybody that has been around for a while understands life's dilemmas...I do feel an imbalance in my karma equation and it is going to be good to contribute to the health of others rather than contributing to the mayhem of war.

 

[superab2003]

Hi, so basically I've heard that without honoring your surgery rotation, kiss ortho goodbye. I just was wondering what the general consensus was out there...is it even worth applying for ortho without honoring the surgery rotation? If so, what other fields are also considered definitely 'no chance' if you don't honor surgery. Also, is high pass still unacceptable and therefore only honors will get the job done? Or is anything above pass possibly ok.

Thanks for your input

 

[arthrodisiac]

thats bull. you dont have to honor surgery. just use her f'in head...the better you do the better your chances are, thats how it works. u can still get in with pass, just doesnt look as good. but these absolute statements of "you do this or you're out" is stupid. all of these statements are designed to scare medical students, and you have to learn to buffer them out. if you are very worried...take all of your grades, cv, scores and go to someone in the ortho department and say...here, what do you think of what ive done, and what do you think i can do in the future to improve my chances.

 

[PediBoneDoc]

honors in surgery not a must. i think it helps, but then again everything helps to some degree. honors in ortho is a must. if you don't honor ortho and you are going into it, that's trouble. when reviewing applications most do realize that the surgery rotations can be hit or miss and the gen surgeons can be a$$h@les. if you do poorly on you ortho rotation though, that can sink your ship.

 

[pedisurg]

Hi, so basically I've heard that without honoring your surgery rotation, kiss ortho goodbye. I just was wondering what the general consensus was out there...is it even worth applying for ortho without honoring the surgery rotation? If so, what other fields are also considered definitely 'no chance' if you don't honor surgery. Also, is high pass still unacceptable and therefore only honors will get the job done? Or is anything above pass possibly ok.

Thanks for your input

Thats a bunch of junk..."Honors" does not always equal great candidate, it may mean great ass kisser in some places!! Really.

If someone has a strong application, is a good guy/girl to be around, works hard on his aways, and is not annoying, an ortho spot should be in the works.

Loki- forget all the SUPER ORTHO CANDIDATE stuff you hear, and go for it. If you want to do ortho, your board scores, publications, etc. stand for themselves. Your life story and explaination of class rank jives as well...

Everything you read about scores/publications/research/class rank/how impossible ortho is, take with a grain of salt. Every person is different, and the total package is what most places are after.

 

[GoodMonkey]

seriously - forget all that superfantasticallorthoresidentsaretop3% BS. that's what it is - BS. there are super smart people in all specialties. and you'll be surprised how far a good life story and interesting personality along with being a hard worker with a sincere desire to be an orthopod (and the capability of expressing this well and explaining things in interviews) takes you.

if it's what you want to do, go for it.

- she of the 218 step 1, middle of the class, only honored M3 peds and psych with only an esoteric publication from years ago but who worked full time her first two years of med school at the biotech company she'd been with for 2 prior years and got into ortho midway/late in her M3 year thanks to an ultimate frisbee teammate who was an ortho resident ... and still managed to match in at her #3 spot. in the majority of my interviews (and i was offered 21) i talked about mountain biking, trail running, algae and ecology (my area of study in grad school - from which i dropped out) ultimate frisbee and my job in biotech.