what happened to the sydney university posts

[GMC]

i was wondering what happened to all sydney u posts. i find opinions and articles interesting. i find much arogance and secrecy there. like hearing other views.

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[flindophile]

i was wondering what happened to all sydney u posts. i find opinions and articles interesting. i find much arogance and secrecy there. like hearing other views.

I was wondering the same thing.

 

[GMC]

I was wondering the same thing.

i think someone trying to cover something up. there was many negative things but i have seen some bad things there myself. not good reason to censor. most people nice but some international students treated very bad. fail with no explanation and threaten if they tell anybody. one student argue about grade and put in mental ward. international students no right to appeal grade. have to get good lawyer to pass. one student spend ten grand. many asian students have bad things said to them by teachers. told they are stupid. only there for money. americans have many bad stories.

 

[flindophile]

I doubt that it is anything that sinister. My best guess is that USydGrad just decided to delete his posts and threads -- which you can do. I think his comments were overstated; however, I think there was grain of truth to many of them. In any event, students considering Sydney should be able to see his viewpoint. Every school creates some unhappy customers and U of Sydney is no exception.

 

[Winged Scapula]

As flindophile states, nothing sinister. There is no SDN policy or Moderator affiliations which preclude users from posting negative information about certain schools, programs, etc. as long as the information is not considered libelous or slanderous.

Without violating this particular user's privacy, Lee Burnett had deleted the thread because of some inappropriate behavior on that user's part. Threats against other users and/or SDN and its volunteer staff are not tolerated.

 

[flindophile]

As flindophile states, nothing sinister. There is no SDN policy or Moderator affiliations which preclude users from posting negative information about certain schools, programs, etc. as long as the information is not considered libelous or slanderous.

Without violating this particular user's privacy, Lee Burnett had deleted the thread because of some inappropriate behavior on that user's part. Threats against other users and/or SDN and its volunteer staff are not tolerated.

The remedy for the problem seems rather broad. It seems that it would have been more appropriate to ban the user rather than the user along with all the associated information. Just because someone behaves badly does not mean their posts are not worth reading. I would say it would have been more appropriate to remove the offending post, ban the offending user and let the rest of the information remain. The remedy in this case was too broad,

 

[GMC]

As flindophile states, nothing sinister. There is no SDN policy or Moderator affiliations which preclude users from posting negative information about certain schools, programs, etc. as long as the information is not considered libelous or slanderous.

Without violating this particular user's privacy, Lee Burnett had deleted the thread because of some inappropriate behavior on that user's part. Threats against other users and/or SDN and its volunteer staff are not tolerated.

what thread. i read all. i did not see any threat. maybe the the school threaten sdn and they scared.

 

[GMC]

Without violating this particular user's privacy, Lee Burnett had deleted the thread because of some inappropriate behavior on that user's part. Threats against other users and/or SDN and its volunteer staff are not tolerated.

you make braod accustaion against poster. no details. i think this guy paranoid. user make no threat. if anything usydgrad threaten by other user. one user make up stories about usydgrad. usydgrad make post that he think sdn allow fighting and defamation. maybe sdn mad. i hope usydgrad join with new name and tell everything. if you out there listening please tell us. you make good posts. many true things. i see with my own eyes.

 

[Winged Scapula]

what thread. i read all. i did not see any threat. maybe the the school threaten sdn and they scared.

The offending information was sent to Lee Burnett in a PM directed to him. Since this is a private matter between the user in question and Lee, it is not my place to post the specific information or threats made, but I can state that the University of Sydney had not been in contact with SDN nor have they made any threats.

 

[Winged Scapula]

you make braod accustaion against poster. no details. i think this guy paranoid. user make no threat. if anything usydgrad threaten by other user. one user make up stories about usydgrad. usydgrad make post that he think sdn allow fighting and defamation. maybe sdn mad. i hope usydgrad join with new name and tell everything. if you out there listening please tell us. you make good posts. many true things. i see with my own eyes.

I find it hard to understand how you can confidently state that no threat was made against SDN when this was a private message sent to Lee from another user, unless you have some personal connection to the user in question or are in fact, the user of which I speak. Perhaps we define threat differently. No physical threats were made; rather threats involving SDN and its sponsors with legal action were made.

I gave no details because its no one's business but that of the user and the Administrators of this site. There is an SDN policy which restricts the posting of PMs, even for Administrators. Thus, I would have no business posting the PM without the express permission of all parties involved. Since it is frankly no one else's beeswax, I see no reason to.

There was no "offending post" which was deleted; rather than ban the user because she did not outrightly violate the SDN TOS, another form of Administrative control was used - this unfortunately, also has the effect of removing the user's posts from view. They do still exist however and were not deleted.

We have no problems with the user in question posting his or her own experiences with U of Sydney. As long as the information is offered in a professional manner in which the poster intends to inform rather than slander, it will be welcomed by the Administration of SDN. Since others are obviously interested in the issue of any potential problems at Sydney, we need some verfication or denials from others with experience there. GMC is more than welcome to share his/her experiences as well.

However, users apparently need to be reminded that when others disagree with them and the position posted in their threads, this does not constitute defamation.

And while we have some tolerance for fighting and arguing (if we didn't a lot of useful and/or interesting discussions would be over before they started and we'd be accused of censorship - which we often are anyway), we do not tolerate defamation or direct insults to users when they are brought to our attention. When such matters are brought to our attention and it is the opinion of the Administrative staff that such allegations are either ambiguous or without warrant, the posts and/or PMs in question are sent to an independent counsel/mediator which renders a decision on whether or not the posts/PMs in question constitute legal defamation or libel (which was the claim made). Unfortunately, SDN has to resort to this because of the litiginous society in which we live. Because SDN, its Administrative staff, and servers are located in the US, we must abide by its regulations over such issues. Therefore, the issue of whether or not statements made here would be considered slander or libel in another country (when they would not be considered as such in the US), is moot. We are not required to adhere to the vagaries of such laws in other countries.

Uesrs are also reminded that rejoining SDN under another user name is in violation of the SDN TOS and is not tolerated.

I hope this clarifies things and as such will be my last comment on this matter. SDN Administrative decisions are most often final and made with considerable thought and consideration. While the actions may have seem rash, they are the decision of SDN Administration and will stand. Therefore, thank you in advance for understanding and I hope that we can return to the discussion of the various Aussie schools and U of Sydney in particular, if that's what the users wish to discuss in a professional manner.

 

[f_w]

Look guys, whoever foots the bill for that T1 line every month is free to decide which posts to keep, and which ones to delete. It is the old 'as long as you put your big feet under my table' thing.

 

[sydnophobe]

I find it hard to understand how you can confidently state that no threat was made against SDN when this was a private message sent to Lee from another user, unless you have some personal connection to the user in question or are in fact, the user of which I speak. Perhaps we define threat differently. No physical threats were made; rather threats involving SDN and its sponsors with legal action were made.

I gave no details because its no one's business but that of the user and the Administrators of this site. There is an SDN policy which restricts the posting of PMs, even for Administrators. Thus, I would have no business posting the PM without the express permission of all parties involved. Since it is frankly no one else's beeswax, I see no reason to.

I have seen the correspondence. I will email it to anyone interested. I requested it from the poster and it was forwarded to me. It has now been forwarded to GMC and others. Here is what really happened. UsydGrad complained to Lee Burnett about harassing posts by JBA contained in a thread. Lee Burnett responded that he had received legal advice and did not see any problem with the posts. UsydGrad then courteously informed Lee Burnett that he was forwarding the urls of the questionable thread to potentially interested third parties. Hardly a threat. Apparently, Lee Burnett deleted threads so that any contacted third party could not acess them. Evidently, he must have thought there was a problem with the thread despite brushing off the user's concern. There were no threats. I have seen the messages. This is a lie. As far as I am concerned, SDN is losing credibility.

 

[driedcaribou]

I have seen the correspondence. I will email it to anyone interested.

GMC/sydnophobe/USydGrad/whatever name you choose.

Don't you have anything better to do?
You must think everyone is really stupid.

 

[pitman]

GMC/sydnophobe/USydGrad/whatever name you choose.

Don't you have anything better to do?
You must think everyone is really stupid.

Funny how even the username, "sydnophobe", has an identical tone...she just can't help herself! And you gotta love that transparent & affected broken English of the other!

There wasn't a darned comment JBA wrote that could be construed as harrassment, let alone as noxious as USydGrad. ANY regulars here know this.

 

[Skills]

Yes, I guess speaking in "faux englese" despite the fact that south east asians may SPEAK that way not write that way does slightly give the impression of a bogus author
your slanted and slightly racist stereotypical impersonation of a South East Asian student who has just written his first sentences of english was interesting to read for various reasons

 

[pitman]

Also interesting how GMC claims to have "seen" many of the same (claimed) problems at USyd...implying that someone with virtually no command of English could possibly be studying (PBL-based or other) med there. Meanwhile students are locked up in "mental wards" when they complain about their grades. Uh huh.

-pitman

 

[GMC]

There was no "offending post" which was deleted; rather than ban the user because she did not outrightly violate the SDN TOS, another form of Administrative control was used - this unfortunately, also has the effect of removing the user's posts from view. They do still exist however and were not deleted.

please tell more about adminsitrative control. what is the purpose of posts exist but cant view? many users posts gone. if no violation what is the problem. please tell how you know gender of user. i think user is male

 

[GMC]

I find it hard to understand how you can confidently state that no threat was made against SDN when this was a private message sent to Lee from another user, unless you have some personal connection to the user in question or are in fact, the user of which I speak. Perhaps we define threat differently. No physical threats were made; rather threats involving SDN and its sponsors with legal action were made.

more question. who is lee burnett?? i went to coastal website and no info. i cant figure out what it does. is he real. is it hoax. i seen message. no threat for legal action. maybe you mean sdn make threat against poster. still dont understand.

 

[AusMeds]

I totally support SDN.

If UsydGrad truly had negative experiences at USyd then he/she is certainly entitled to post them here uncensored. However, IMHO, where UsydGrad crossed the line is by extrapolating his/her "experiences" at USyd to all Australian medical schools without any factual basis whatsoever. With his slanderous statements about Australian medical education, UsydGrad indirectly condemned so many great people who dedicate their lives to training good doctors and slandered the reputations of all of Australia's medical schools. Nobody is entitled to do that and SDN certainly does not have to tolerate being a stage for such behaviour.

I have no idea if the "experiences" that UsydGrad posted on SDN were accurate or not; however, the more inflammatory posts that UsydGrad submitted, the more I personally questioned his/her integrity and motivation. It takes two to tango and we were certainly only getting one side of a "story".

People use this forum to make some of the most important decisions of their lives. The posts here can either be supportive of a school or critical; however, they should be accurate and based on factual information. Anything less does a disservice to anyone that is thinking about pursuing a career in medicine and thinking about an education in Australia. UsydGrad did not attend Flinders, UQ, Melbourne, or ... and had absolutely no authority to make critical statements that included these schools and others in their scope.

To censor someone like has happened to UsydGrad should absolutely be a rare step and the behavioural threshold that someone must surpass to be "deleted" should be tolerant of diverse and critical views; however, when someone crosses the line as UsydGrad did, then I salute SDN for having the courage to take action so that SDN can continue to be a valuable and trustworthy forum for many years to come.

 

[Winged Scapula]

more question. who is lee burnett?? i went to coastal website and no info. i cant figure out what it does. is he real. is it hoax. i seen message. no threat for legal action. maybe you mean sdn make threat against poster. still dont understand.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/member.php?userid=1

http://www.osofamily.com/burnett.html

 

[Winged Scapula]

please tell more about adminsitrative control. what is the purpose of posts exist but cant view? many users posts gone. if no violation what is the problem. please tell how you know gender of user. i think user is male

I hope this clarifies things and as such will be my last comment on this matter. SDN Administrative decisions are most often final and made with considerable thought and consideration. While the actions may have seem rash, they are the decision of SDN Administration and will stand.

 

[driedcaribou]

I totally agree with all comments about the poor quality of many of the Ozzie programs, particularly Sydney. I spoke with a few US residency program directors when considering these programs. I have spoken with students and graduates of a number of Ozzie programs. Most were dissatisfied overall.

False information. There are multiple students who have graduated from the University of Syndey and have placed in residencies like Ortho, IM, General Surg.....

It isn't easy to go to the US when you graduate from an Australian Medical School but it is far from impossible.
The number of graduates from Australian medical schools who do head to the US are too small to influence the attitudes of US residency directors.

Why do you think all these losers (ie. Ausmeds, pitman) are so defensive? They know their overall chances. They know they are ****ed in the long run. They got sucked in with false promises. Thanks to this site, you wont find me in Oz. They are the ones who most influenced my decision. I found those who honestly pointed out flaws when it is certainly not in their best interest to be most credible.

Irrelevant now as I just got a place in a real medical school after being wait-listed. Eat your heart out.

You are so bitter it's hilarious. You make this forum entertaining to come to.
You come here repeatedly making several different accounts to round up support for yourself and your own opinions.

Why don't you tell us the real truth about what happened when you were Australia?

Something really significant must have happened to you to give you motivation to come to this forum repeatedly to slander Australian Medical Schools.

That, or you have nothing better to do with your time. It's quite an odd hobby.

Most people come here to get more information about their future decisions or to help others. I suppose you see it as your duty to 'help others' by insulting others and telling them not to go to Australia for Medical School.

Good job!

 

[sydnophobe]

Why don't you tell us the real truth about what happened when you were Australia?

I considered Australian schools at one point. I did come to SDN for information and that is why I was very hestitant about Ozzie schools. I just got in elsewhere. I hung on and fought. In the end, my efforts paid off. Definitely not bitter. Probably would be bitter if I were stuck at an Australian school -- seems like everybody there is so bitter and defensive. Y'all "slander" yourselves and negatively impact on your programs which really just diminshes your future chances.

 

[driedcaribou]

I considered Australian schools at one point. I did come here for information and that is why I was very hestitant about Ozzie schools.

Why do you keep lying?

Look at when your account was made.

In fact, look at when all your accounts were made.

Considering the amount of detail re: the whole debate you put in your posts and the 'voice' used in all the posts, you are the same person.

If you are in fact training right now, don't you have something better to do like check some lab values for some patient? Or did you lack all personal ambition to actually succeed in acquiring a residency?

 

[sydnophobe]

I am excited about getting into med school. I hope I don't end up all bitter like you. But I'll have a lot more certainty to look forward too. That helps keep one's spirits up when things get tough. One thing I do know is that my chances will be better than if I settled for Australia. Wherever you are studying (applying), best of luck for future success. Like you say, nothing is impossible.

 

[banana k]

this is just stating the bleeding obvious but:

syd, i don't think med students here are so much bitter as offended by certain postings... which anyone would be if someone kept saying that up to four years of our lives & X amount of money spent were worthless (four years which, i might add, that they'd worked hard and learned something).

i have to say that between the chatter here and the american pre-allo/allo forums, i'm wondering if i want to be a doctor at all. shouldn't medicine be about doing something good, and not about worrying whether the other guy did it better/had more opportunities/makes more money? if the real point of medical school is to be the best, match to a top residency in radiology at Brigham & Women's or BU, move to the US, start earning in $USD, and look at those who went to a non-Ivy league undergraduate school as inferior, then i don't want to do it. full stop.

it's been my experience in Oz that people for the most part don't want that. over any other reason, that is why i live here and not in Boston. please, don't project that outlook into Oz... i honestly can't see how it would benefits patients, which is really the point of it all, isn't it? maybe you could say that such an attitude raises the standard of medical education, but don't you think it's more likely to raise the level of burnout?

i guess my point is, people here aren't defensive, they are offended, and that while the criticisms of australian medicine may have basis, everybody's got problems of some sort--and what's been said is just not constructive.

 

[sydnophobe]

Mr/Ms Do Gooder:

Ultimately medicine is a rat race. There are realities out there.

People are more likely to burn out in programs where they don't have to do jack **** -- many have alluded to this aspect of Australian medical schools. Challenges keep people from burning out.

 

[deleted59964]

Damn, UsydGrad I thought I had you on my ignore list ... then you go generating yet ANOTHER alias.

If you dont like our med schools or our system I have a simple solution ... go back from whence you came.
As for your continued whining about the poor quality of australian medicine you might be interested to know that we out live you over here. Despite your mega dollar healthcare system and our shock horror mostly socialised medical system.

Don't believe me, well ...

"Internationally, Australia's male life expectancy ranks below Hong Kong (79 years), Japan and Sweden (each 78 years), but above France, Greece, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, Spain (each 76 years) and the United States of America (75 years). Australia's female life expectancy also ranks below Japan and Hong Kong (85 and 84 years respectively), but is above that of Canada, Sweden (each 82 years), Greece and New Zealand (each 81 years) and the United Kingdom and the United States of America (each 80 years). "

From the ABS

Then again maybe it's just the fresh air we have here.


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Cover up as you please.

Real Hardcore Threat? Oh well, this Lee dude may have gotten his big "emeritus" ego bruised a bit. Bummer.

I got a copy of the correspondence between the poster and Lee Burnett. It was pasted in an email. (When I copied it from email, the formatting was lost.)

FW: #37 = Minor Name Calling?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
****Edited by SDN Administration for TOS violation (posting PMs or emails between users without express permission from ALL users to do so.)

 

[sydnophobe]

Damn, UsydGrad I thought I had you on my ignore list ... then you go generating yet ANOTHER alias.

If you dont like our med schools or our system I have a simple solution ... go back from whence you came.
As for your continued whining about the poor quality of australian medicine you might be interested to know that we out live you over here. Despite your mega dollar healthcare system and our shock horror mostly socialised medical system.

Don't believe me, well ...

"Internationally, Australia's male life expectancy ranks below Hong Kong (79 years), Japan and Sweden (each 78 years), but above France, Greece, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, Spain (each 76 years) and the United States of America (75 years). Australia's female life expectancy also ranks below Japan and Hong Kong (85 and 84 years respectively), but is above that of Canada, Sweden (each 82 years), Greece and New Zealand (each 81 years) and the United Kingdom and the United States of America (each 80 years). "

From the ABS

Then again maybe it's just the fresh air we have here.


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Your crappy insults aside. Don't plan to study there. All you defensive, chip on your shoulders, posters with inferiority complexes convinced me it wasn't worth it. Just got in elsewhere (US) on waitlist so don't have to consider stooping that low.

Just to help out your cause -- whatever it is. I understand that the US has the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world. Much higher. This is probably the biggest factor of all in life expectancy data. (I assume that your "life expectancy" data is for a child born "today" since that is the way it is usually presented and you don't specify any details.) You get different numbers if you look at life expectancy after certain ages, say 1 year old, 18 years old, etc.) Anyway, I don't think such data would influence someone's decision as to where to study.

Australia was very proactive in combatting the spread HIV -- something for which it is recognized world-wide. America saw giving out needles and condoms as condoning drug use and sex. That's the "Religious Right" for you.

 

[deleted59964]

Don't plan to study there. All you defensive, chip on your shoulders, posters with inferiority complexes convinced me it wasn't worth it. Just got in elsewhere on waitlist so don't have to consider stooping that low.

congratulations. I'm very happy for both of us.

Hmm... "elsewhere" hey? I'm tipping Harvard overlooked you, so where did you manage to scrape in a place ? I hear the weather is adorable in the Carribean this time of year

 

[sydnophobe]

congratulations. I'm very happy for both of us.

Hmm... "elsewhere" hey? I'm tipping Harvard overlooked you, so where did you manage to scrape in a place ? I hear the weather is adorable in the Carribean this time of year

A reasonably respectable US MD program. Anyone even considering Australia would not be applying to Harvard in the first place! I'm not Harvard material (and neither are you) and I did not apply there. If I had to go offshore to medical school, I would have chosen Carribean over Australia -- not because of the weather but because of their US track records.

 

[tkim]

this thread, predictably, has degenerated. closing.

 

[Winged Scapula]

In the interest of full disclosure (before reclosing this thread), several days of work has finally paid off when GMC and sydnophobe revealed themselves last night to be the same person via IP search (hint: if you want to troll with different accounts, don't use the same computer. If your "roommate" wants to troll, don't let them use the same computer you do, because we have no way of telling whether you are the "innocent" party and they're the "bad" user.)

Since it is: a) a violation of SDN TOS (which BTW is actually enforced) to have multiple accounts, they have been closed ; b) it is a violation to post multiples of the same post, in separate threads and to post other users PMs or emails without their permission (I am not aware that Lee gave his permission for his email to USydMed to be posted) and c) it becomes fairly obvious that the GMC account, while perhaps not strictly used for trolling, becomes even more offensive when it is apparent that it is an American "faking" an Asian "accent".