What do you guys think about this offer?

[Splenda88]

Major city in AZ
Hospitalist 7 days on/off
Salary: 282k/yr ($1550/day for 182 days)
Sign on bonus: 20k
Relocation: 7k
CME: 5k
RVUs : over 45 in 24 hrs, $30/RVU (no idea what all these mean)
Other benefits: 4% match 401k, health insurance, dental, vision etc...
Vacation: None
Malpractice with tail coverage: Yes
2 years contract
Patient encounters: 15-20; 2-3 admissions per day


This is an initial offer... I will have a contract lawyer take a look at it.

What do you guys think?

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[SXMMD]

“Vacation: none”

“7 off is not 7 off. I’ll explain it to you later. Hospitals have said that for years, but 7 off is not 7 off.”
- LeBron James

 

[Splenda88]

“Vacation: none”

“7 off is not 7 off. I’ll explain it to you later. Hospitals have said that for years, but 7 off is not 7 off.”
- LeBron James

I agree. I feel like hospitalists should at least have 2-3 wks vacation plus 1 wk CME, but I only see a few jobs that offer 2 wks off. Everyone seems to accept that you week off is baked into your vacation even if you are working > 40 hrs/wk on average...

 

[SXMMD]

I’m in my first Hospitalist job out of residency so take my post with a grain of salt- I don’t know what’s the norm, my n=1. Would negotiate vacation if possible. Even though they tell you vacation is baked into the 7 off, it’s really not. You’ll get all sorts of administrative bs added in on your off days, still have to answer coding queries and other bs. Nobody is going to really respect your time off as time off.

 

[rokshana]

negotiate the vacations...you should be able to get 2-4 weeks of PTO/vacation

 

[Splenda88]

Is the RVU thing fair?

 

[chessknt]

Depending on the size of the hospital not much may be negotiable since other employees tend to get mad if things aren't fair. Asking for 2 weeks of vacation is like asking for an 8% pay increase which is not unreasonable but also might be a nonstarter.

45 rvus with 15 pts will be a bit hard to do if we are talking wrvu. A level 3 follow up is 2 wrvu so if all 15 are 3s (unlikely) you'd have to admit 5 level 3 pts on top of that to break 45 so I would just assume no bonus ever unless you are rounding in icu too and doing procedures.

 

[chocomorsel]

I agree. I feel like hospitalists should at least have 2-3 wks vacation plus 1 wk CME, but I only see a few jobs that offer 2 wks off. Everyone seems to accept that you week off is baked into your vacation even if you are working > 40 hrs/wk on average...

Been saying this for years. Doctors are dumb for by buying into this model. I turned down lots of jobs because of this.

 

[wamcp]

Is the RVU thing fair?

I had never seen any offer lower than $45/rvu in my experience. 30/rvu is 33% lower than that

 

[CCM-MD]

Major city in AZ
Hospitalist 7 days on/off
Salary: 282k/yr ($1550/day for 182 days)
Sign on bonus: 20k
Relocation: 7k
CME: 5k
RVUs : over 45 in 24 hrs, $30/RVU (no idea what all these mean)
Other benefits: 4% match 401k, health insurance, dental, vision etc...
Vacation: None
Malpractice with tail coverage: Yes
2 years contract
Patient encounters: 15-20; 2-3 admissions per day


This is an initial offer... I will have a contract lawyer take a look at it.

What do you guys think?

Its a fair deal. Hospitalists at my institution get $120/h. Your offer works out to $129/h. I would take it and run before someone else does. From what I hear the market is tight.

 

[Splenda88]

Its a fair deal. Hospitalists at my institution get $120/h. Your offer works out to $129/h. I would take it and run before someone else does. From what I hear the market is tight.

Yeah. Will ask for 1-2 wks vacation, 1 wk CME and ask for some change in the bonus structure. That's the best offer that I have seen from a major city so far...

 

[CCM-MD]

Yeah. Will ask for 1-2 wks vacation, 1 wk CME and ask for some change in the bonus structure. That's the best offer that I have seen from a major city so far...

Reality is very different from the high numbers that are frequently quoted on this website. Hope you find something good in a location you like.

 

[Splenda88]

Reality is very different from the high numbers that are frequently quoted on this website. Hope you find something good in a location you like.

I agree... You are not gonna all 3 (location, $$$, lifestyle) in this market. I thought I was going to find all 3 and that is not the case.

I don't know if I should go for a unicorn job that is not in a prime location. (260k/yr, 2 wks vacation, 1 wk CME, 20% of your salary in incentive which everyone got (~52k/yr), 2.5k CME, 401k, etc... 14-16 patient encounters). 90k for 3 yrs student loan repayment.

It's a tough decision.

 

[wamcp]

Its a fair deal. Hospitalists at my institution get $120/h. Your offer works out to $129/h. I would take it and run before someone else does. From what I hear the market is tight.

At my metro suburb we are hiring a new day hospitalist via word of mouth (someone retired in our group) at the same compensation we've been offering the past few years.

15 shifts a month, 270K base, 10% production bonus (90+% of group gets all of it each year), closed ICU, no midlevels. Rounding census is 15/day on average, only do admissions if on the day admitter shift role.

That being said, I agree that the market is very tight in many places now. In my area new job ads are completely dried up.

 

[Splenda88]

I had never seen any offer lower than $45/rvu in my experience. 30/rvu is 33% lower than that

Will ask them to make change...

 

[rokshana]

Will ask them to make change...

Or go work where wampc works!

 

[chocomorsel]

Its a fair deal. Hospitalists at my institution get $120/h. Your offer works out to $129/h. I would take it and run before someone else does. From what I hear the market is tight.

Do you or the general hospitalists get any vacation outside of the 7 off/7on? I have a new gig that is giving us three weeks so that is a huge plus. Although anesthesiologists typically take about 8 weeks a year off on average. Six weeks is low. I wish I enjoyed the OR as much as I do the ICU though and also need to gain experience in the ICU.

 

[chocomorsel]

At my metro suburb we are hiring a new day hospitalist via word of mouth (someone retired in our group) at the same compensation we've been offering the past few years.

15 shifts a month, 270K base, 10% production bonus (90+% of group gets all of it each year), closed ICU, no midlevels. Rounding census is 15/day on average, only do admissions if on the day admitter shift role.

That being said, I agree that the market is very tight in many places now. In my area new job ads are completely dried up.

What has led to the market being tight? I would think with all the Covid, even though that is slowing down now, there would be a huge need.

 

[SXMMD]

Less about need and more about hospitals not coughing up the dough to hire hospitalists

 

[CCM-MD]

Do you or the general hospitalists get any vacation outside of the 7 off/7on? I have a new gig that is giving us three weeks so that is a huge plus. Although anesthesiologists typically take about 8 weeks a year off on average. Six weeks is low. I wish I enjoyed the OR as much as I do the ICU though and also need to gain experience in the ICU.

I don't get any paid time off/vacation. There is an intensivist job in a nearby city that offers 14 shifts worth of PTO but it is at an HCA hospital .

 

[chocomorsel]

I agree... You are not gonna all 3 (location, $$$, lifestyle) in this market. I thought I was going to find all 3 and that is not the case.

I don't know if I should go for a unicorn job that is not in a prime location. (260k/yr, 2 wks vacation, 1 wk CME, 20% of your salary in incentive which everyone got (~52k/yr), 2.5k CME, 401k, etc... 14-16 patient encounters). 90k for 3 yrs student loan repayment.

It's a tough decision.

What makes it not a "prime location?"

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Arizona

 

[Splenda88]

What makes it not a "prime location?"

Small tow of ~20k people.; closest major airport is 2.5 hrs away...

 

[chocomorsel]

Small tow of ~20k people.; closest major airport is 2.5 hrs away...

I can do small. Can’t do an airport that far away. Is there a regional airport?

 

[Splenda88]

I can do small. Can’t do an airport that far away. Is there a regional airport?

There is a regional airport 45 mins away... But If am traveling, 3 flights to get to my destination is a little bit too much IMO.

 

[Splenda88]

Arizona

What's wrong with AZ? Phoenix, Mesa, Tempe and even Tucson are not bad places to raise a family.

 

[chocomorsel]

There is a regional airport 45 mins away... But If am traveling, 3 flights to get to my destination is a little bit too much IMO.

This is a huge country. And if you don’t travel frequently, it’s not a big deal IMO. I travel all the time and on occasion it takes three flights to get to my little bitty towns. Maybe the regional can take you to a farther major airport or is this not an option?
Personally, I would be more worried about the lack of good food and cultural diversity than anything else.

 

[Splenda88]

This is a huge country. And if you don’t travel frequently, it’s not a big deal IMO. I travel all the time and on occasion it takes three flights to get to my little bitty towns. Maybe the regional can take you to a farther major airport or is this not an option?

The regional can take me to the major airport in the state and then, it will be another 2 flights to get to any major destinations.

Also, schools are not great. Now I can understand why rural America are left behind. Schools in these small town are terrible. I have noticed that trend a lot being in the physician job market . Why is that? Aren't people in these small town family oriented?

 

[wamcp]

Small tow of ~20k people.; closest major airport is 2.5 hrs away...

Yuck. I guess market is tight, but that compensation is disappointing for the kind of area you describe. Sorry. A town of that size, 3 hr from our downtown metro airport was offering 388K base for 15 shifts a month...open icu though. Got filled quickly

 

[CCM-MD]

Yuck. I guess market is tight, but that compensation is disappointing for the kind of area you describe. Sorry. A town of that size, 3 hr from our downtown metro airport was offering 388K base for 15 shifts a month...open icu though. Got filled quickly

 

[Jinxapotato]

Small tow of ~20k people.; closest major airport is 2.5 hrs away...

soooo Yuma? If that offer is Phoenix I'd take it n run but Yuma....hell no broo...hell no....

 

[grt398]

I don't get any paid time off/vacation. There is an intensivist job in a nearby city that offers 14 shifts worth of PTO but it is at an HCA hospital .

Would you mind explaining more about what's expected of you on your "off" week? I'm curious how it compares to the hospitalists who are reporting various administrative expectations when they're supposed to be "off." I think it might also be helpful if any of the hospitalists here were willing to provide more details about what these administrative expectations are because many of us have no exposure at all to this aspect of medicine while we're in training.

 

[CCM-MD]

Would you mind explaining more about what's expected of you on your "off" week? I'm curious how it compares to the hospitalists who are reporting various administrative expectations when they're supposed to be "off." I think it might also be helpful if any of the hospitalists here were willing to provide more details about what these administrative expectations are because many of us have no exposure at all to this aspect of medicine while we're in training.

Nothing is expected. When you are off, you are off. You can do extra stuff if you want to but it is not required. For example, I've agreed to join some committees and I help residents get some abstracts out but that is purely because I want to. Others in my group usually aren't even in town when they aren't working.

 

[wamcp]

Would you mind explaining more about what's expected of you on your "off" week? I'm curious how it compares to the hospitalists who are reporting various administrative expectations when they're supposed to be "off." I think it might also be helpful if any of the hospitalists here were willing to provide more details about what these administrative expectations are because many of us have no exposure at all to this aspect of medicine while we're in training.

As a hospitalist in my experience nothing is expected while off. Including my one year stint in academics. Didactics were expected to be taught only while on service

 

[grt398]

Appreciate both of the replies; I wasn't sure if I had misunderstood things since one of the posters above said "You’ll get all sorts of administrative bs added in on your off days, still have to answer coding queries and other bs. Nobody is going to really respect your time off as time off" but maybe that's just an unusual situation.

 

[sylvanthus]

Is no vacation time really a thing hospitalists are dealing with? Im weekon/week off and work a total of 140 - 12 hour shifts. Comes out to about 12 a month on average.

 

[SXMMD]

Appreciate both of the replies; I wasn't sure if I had misunderstood things since one of the posters above said "You’ll get all sorts of administrative bs added in on your off days, still have to answer coding queries and other bs. Nobody is going to really respect your time off as time off" but maybe that's just an unusual situation.

It may be institution dependent. Where I work technically I am off on my 7 off but if I don’t respond to some email or coding query or whatever from some chump in the c suite/ cdi department all hell breaks loose. It’s an ongoing battle between our Hospitalist group and the admin- we are either off, or we are not and deserve vacation time. Outcome tbd

again, my n=1

 

[Splenda88]

Is no vacation time really a thing hospitalists are dealing with? Im weekon/week off and work a total of 140 - 12 hour shifts. Comes out to about 12 a month on average.

Yep... You rarely find a job that offers 2wks vacation and 1 wk CME.

 

[sylvanthus]

Yep... You rarely find a job that offers 2wks vacation and 1 wk CME.

Well, that sucks, guess we all should be lucky to have jobs at this point though right? Im waiting to be replaced by an NP, would not be surprised in the slightest at this point. Shoving as much into retirement as I can before I am unable to do so in the future.

 

[Splenda88]

Well, that sucks, guess we all should be lucky to have jobs at this point though right? Im waiting to be replaced by an NP, would not be surprised in the slightest at this point. Shoving as much into retirement as I can before I am unable to do so in the future.

That is a great plan.

Pay your student loan ASAP
Live in a modest home as long as you can convince the spouse that it's ok to live in a modest home
Max out 401k, Roth, HSA
Invest the rest in index

 

[sylvanthus]

That is a great plan.

Pay your student loan ASAP
Live in a modest home as long as you can convince the spouse that it's ok to live in a modest home
Max out 401k, Roth, HSA
Invest the rest in index

Shooting for pslf, if it still exists in 3 1/2 years, and fedloan can stop f’ing up my payment count.