We Can't Be Insecure and Yet Expect Others to Respect Our Field

[paz5559]

5-10 years ago, PM&R programs routinely didn’t fill, or filled with majority of FMG's. My experience over the past 3 years of applying and residency is that this is clearly not the case anymore, and that some of the brightest med students who rotate through our department are targeting the field as one of their top choices.

So it makes me see red when we get posts that say I am a bottom quarter member of my med school class, had trouble or didn’t pass Step I on the first try, had a few scrapes with the law, etc, etc - do you think I could be accepted into your [pathetic] little field of medicine? (Can you say William Kennedy Smith?) I KNOW the PC answer is of COURSE, we are inclusive, we understand your learning disability, we all deserve a second chance, blah, blah, blah. I guess my problem is, if the same person posted the same info on the Ortho board, or on another field's board, the response would be one of indignation, not the knee-jerk warm fuzzy inclusion we know to be proper.

I wonder if our lack of competitive spirit, our lack of indignation, and our lack of knee-jerk revulsion at such apparent disrespect is in any way indicative of our collective insecurity.

We are the FIRST generation in PM&R where board scores mattered, research was important, and where our classmates in med school didn’t look down their noses when they heard what area we were considering, and where PM&R was our first choice, not a fall-back position when you didn't get into Ortho. I still have some staff where I look at them and think there is no way they could have gotten a residency spot if they had to apply now.

Yeah, I know I am mostly venting here, but the next AOA applicant who wanders onto our board considering PM&R ought to see pride in our accomplishment, how far our field has advanced, and all the potential still to come in spinal intervention, SCI, TBI, EMG, sports, peds, and areas we have not even thought of yet! PM&R is not merely a refuge for those who want a lifestyle field with good compensation (Plenty of Money & Relaxation). I want that too, but I also want to change the world of PM&R, and those of you active enough to participate on an advocacy board like of the sort Dave has created and nurtured should not tolerate anything less that those sorts of lofty aspirations.

So the next time someone asks if PM&R is appropriate for the guy who finished last in his class in med school, I, for one, am gonna tell him you can succeed in anything if you put your mind to it, but ours is a very competitive field, and unless your track record is somehow not indicative of your abilities, perhaps child psych, or a field where they have programs in North Dakota, might be better suited for your talents (or lack thereof)

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[chauffeur]

i think its' important to note that because of the very small number of residency programs, an average increase in the quality of applicants translates to a much more competitive matching field. also, as procedures increase and salaries rise so will the competition to match (take Gastro for example).

 

[DigableCat]

well, unfortunately those applicants that go in with unrealistic expectations about their application package or the competitiveness of PM&R will be the ones that'll be disappointed when they realize that either

1. they didn't match at their top choice(or even top 5)
or
2. they have to possibly scramble(and good luck with that, considering the number of spots after match in the last couple of years has decreased substantially)

I'm just glad I got in when I did.

 

[Finally M3]

Yes, the last few matches have been increasingly competitive, but let's also not forget that some people also are attracted to PM&R because they enjoy the fact that many of the residents & faculty that they interact with are not the hyperaggressive type 'A' personalities found in other fields.

I'm curious to see what this year's match statistics are, and if there is a large increase in USMGs matching.

 

[erasmus31]

5-10 years ago, PM&R programs routinely didn’t fill, or filled with majority of FMG's. My experience over the past 3 years of applying and residency is that this is clearly not the case anymore, and that some of the brightest med students who rotate through our department are targeting the field as one of their top choices.

So it makes me see red when we get posts that say I am a bottom quarter member of my med school class, had trouble or didn’t pass Step I on the first try, had a few scrapes with the law, etc, etc - do you think I could be accepted into your [pathetic] little field of medicine? (Can you say William Kennedy Smith?) I KNOW the PC answer is of COURSE, we are inclusive, we understand your learning disability, we all deserve a second chance, blah, blah, blah. I guess my problem is, if the same person posted the same info on the Ortho board, or on another field's board, the response would be one of indignation, not the knee-jerk warm fuzzy inclusion we know to be proper.

I wonder if our lack of competitive spirit, our lack of indignation, and our lack of knee-jerk revulsion at such apparent disrespect is in any way indicative of our collective insecurity.

We are the FIRST generation in PM&R where board scores mattered, research was important, and where our classmates in med school didn’t look down their noses when they heard what area we were considering, and where PM&R was our first choice, not a fall-back position when you didn't get into Ortho. I still have some staff where I look at them and think there is no way they could have gotten a residency spot if they had to apply now.

Yeah, I know I am mostly venting here, but the next AOA applicant who wanders onto our board considering PM&R ought to see pride in our accomplishment, how far our field has advanced, and all the potential still to come in spinal intervention, SCI, TBI, EMG, sports, peds, and areas we have not even thought of yet! PM&R is not merely a refuge for those who want a lifestyle field with good compensation (Plenty of Money & Relaxation). I want that too, but I also want to change the world of PM&R, and those of you active enough to participate on an advocacy board like of the sort Dave has created and nurtured should not tolerate anything less that those sorts of lofty aspirations.

So the next time someone asks if PM&R is appropriate for the guy who finished last in his class in med school, I, for one, am gonna tell him you can succeed in anything if you put your mind to it, but ours is a very competitive field, and unless your track record is somehow not indicative of your abilities, perhaps child psych, or a field where they have programs in North Dakota, might be better suited for your talents (or lack thereof)

Do you really think that responding to posts on SDN is going to change the perception of PMR? I know this is a popular website, but let's get real, I'm sure SDN has only a very minor role, if any, in current perceptions of PMR.

Posts asking if a particular student is competitive happen in just about every residency forum here, and I think people asking simply want an honest answer.

A post from an average student asking to get into ortho WILL get ripped, b/c that is the honest answer...average students have little chance in ortho.

A post from an average student asking to get into PMR WILL get a answer like "maybe...just try hard and apply to lots of places" b/c PMR often takes the student with lower grades as compared to Ortho.

To essentially say that PMR peeps need to toughen up in what they say to boost the perception of their field is selfish, and egotistical. For the love of Pete, just be honest.

 

[theD.O.C.]

I wonder if our lack of competitive spirit, our lack of indignation, and our lack of knee-jerk revulsion at such apparent disrespect is in any way indicative of our collective insecurity....

I want to change the world of PM&R, and those of you active enough to participate on an advocacy board like of the sort Dave has created and nurtured should not tolerate anything less that those sorts of lofty aspirations.

Welcome to the world of ranting! It's fun isn't it? I understand how it can be a drag when you see many (perceived) slights such as the smirky ortho guy in the hall or the gramatically challenged poster asking how much money we make and how easy it is to get into our field. I think it's great to show a bit of fire, passion and (healthy) competitive nature from time to time. That's part of how perceptions are changed.

It's inspiring to see people who care about our non-pathetic little field and want to see it grow and get better. One of the things I've always said about this field is that it's wide open. You can do almost anything you want in this field and it's all new so if you choose you can make a difference. So good going paz. It's heartening to hear from people who are charged up to make a difference, and also it's great to see so many great candidates interested in our field. So best of luck to you Paz and I hope to hear about your wonderful accomplishments in the future!