(WAMC) What are my chances for matching into Dermatology?

[dermie1985]

Ok guys be honest but not to harsh. What do you think I can do it is there even a derm chance.

Step 1 - 227
Step 2 - not taken yet
School - texas state school
Class rank - dead center at a guess
Pre clinic - pass and more pass
Clinic - all high pass so far but it's early yet
Extras - at current count over 400 hours at our student clinic and I opened a business during school (good for $ bad for grades)
AoA - nope
Research - 4 posters and 1 first author but it's in urology, currency working with our derm department to flush that out

Wel, how bad is it?

I'd say your chances aren't great. Most programs have a 230 cut-off and your application will simply get screened out at most programs. Some don't of course, but you don't have any other compelling things to put your app on the top of the pile (i.e. all clinical honors, top tier medical school, crazy research). You'll notice on the interview trail that even "meh" programs are interviewing 250+ Step 1 scorers from Harvard. It's just a really competitive game.

That being said, if you have a home program and are willing to do a research year (at your home program), I think you might have a shot at your there if you're able to prove you're worth taking through hard work that year. Home programs are usually more likely to overlook things. That would probably be your best bet into derm if you really think it's the only specialty for you.

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[chipshot]

New third-year student, beginning to think about possibly doing dermatology, opinions/ways to improve app? Thanks.

Step 1 - 259
Step 2 - not taken yet
School - top 50 public
Class rank - top 10%
Pre clinic - P/F system - all P
Clinic - Honors thus far in Medicine, Psychiatry, and Family Med.
Extras - some leadership activities throughout medical school, volunteering via mentoring activities.
AOA - Junior AOA
Research - several undergrad pubs and presentations, not derm related.

Any comments/suggestions on how to work in research during third year that is derm specific?

 

[MrBigglesworth]

New third-year student, beginning to think about possibly doing dermatology, opinions/ways to improve app? Thanks.

Step 1 - 259
Step 2 - not taken yet
School - top 50 public
Class rank - top 10%
Pre clinic - P/F system - all P
Clinic - Honors thus far in Medicine, Psychiatry, and Family Med.
Extras - some leadership activities throughout medical school, volunteering via mentoring activities.
AOA - Junior AOA
Research - several undergrad pubs and presentations, not derm related.

Any comments/suggestions on how to work in research during third year that is derm specific?

Get involved with the department and start doing research. Ace the rest of your rotations and you should be fine. Keep up the good work.

 

[dermie1985]

Get involved with the department and start doing research. Ace the rest of your rotations and you should be fine. Keep up the good work.

Agreed. As long as you get your home derm department behind you, you should definitely match somewhere.

 

[Dr. USMLE]

New third-year student, beginning to think about possibly doing dermatology, opinions/ways to improve app? Thanks.

Step 1 - 259
Step 2 - not taken yet
School - top 50 public
Class rank - top 10%
Pre clinic - P/F system - all P
Clinic - Honors thus far in Medicine, Psychiatry, and Family Med.
Extras - some leadership activities throughout medical school, volunteering via mentoring activities.
AOA - Junior AOA
Research - several undergrad pubs and presentations, not derm related.

Any comments/suggestions on how to work in research during third year that is derm specific?

One of the major pitfalls of a very competitive applicant is not demonstrating commitment to the field. As of right now, as you know, there is no evidence of commitment to derm in your app.

Research is one way to develop connections, add a line to your CV and show commitment. You can also assume a leadership position in a derm interest group.

You need to win over your department more than anything else. If you can do an early elective in derm, that would be great. You can also work with your research PI in the clinic outside of a structured elective. Working with a key member like a PD, associate PD, chairman, or committee member is ideal. Making friends with current residents can also be very helpful to gain insider information about your program.

 

[garconfrancais]

Hi, just wondering how my chances stack up. Appreciate any feedback. Thanks!

Step 1: 256
Step 2: Haven't taken it yet
School: Top 40
Class rank: Likely top 10% (?), based on preclinical test scores, not really sure how this is calculated
Pre-clinicals: Pass
Clinicals: HP in surgery, H in a clinical elective (not derm); great comments
Extracurricular/volunteer: spearheaded a new school-sponsored monthly dinner at a local shelter (nothing huge); peer tutor; intramural sports; some other misc. activities
AOA: Not announced yet
Research: 1 first author in JAAD, 1 first author currently under review at a derm journal, 3 other first author manuscripts being finalized (will submit to either dermatology or higher impact oncology journals), 1 poster, multiple non-dermatology abstracts

 

[dermie1985]

Hi, just wondering how my chances stack up. Appreciate any feedback. Thanks!

Step 1: 256
Step 2: Haven't taken it yet
School: Top 40
Class rank: Likely top 10% (?), based on preclinical test scores, not really sure how this is calculated
Pre-clinicals: Pass
Clinicals: HP in surgery, H in a clinical elective (not derm); great comments
Extracurricular/volunteer: spearheaded a new school-sponsored monthly dinner at a local shelter (nothing huge); peer tutor; intramural sports; some other misc. activities
AOA: Not announced yet
Research: 1 first author in JAAD, 1 first author currently under review at a derm journal, 3 other first author manuscripts being finalized (will submit to either dermatology or higher impact oncology journals), 1 poster, multiple non-dermatology abstracts

I assume you're an MS3 and applying next year. Looks good to me. Great Step 1, pre-clinical, and research. You'll definitely match somewhere. Whether you break into "top" programs will largely depend on which Top 40 school you attend; plus what the rest of your clinical grades are. I'd focus on getting an "H" in future rotations, especially internal medicine and pediatrics. If you get HP in either or both of those, it may make the derm match process more difficult for you (as you already got an HP in surgery, and, with medicine and peds, are the 3 rotations that generally get most scrutinized). Consider doing an away rotation if there if a specific non-home program or region you want to break into. Assuming you've done so much research (with your home department?), they might be the easiest place to match. Just make sure the whole department (not just your mentor) is behind you. Good luck!

 

[eolaserf]

School: Top 40, northeast
Preclincal (P/F): all P
Core clerkships: HP in medicine (1st rotation); Honors in surgery, neuro, obgyn, family, peds, psych, rads, medicine sub-I
Step 1/2: both mid-250s
+AOA/+GHHS
Research: 1 non-derm pub, 1 poster, 2 active projects that are in progress (derm related)
Extracurricular: Active in a number of volunteer and leadership activities throughout med school

Late-comer to the derm train. I've already applied and everything is ready to go, but one of my letters is still to be uploaded. Is this actively hurting my odds at this point?

 

[asmallchild]

School: Top 40, northeast
Preclincal (P/F): all P
Core clerkships: HP in medicine (1st rotation); Honors in surgery, neuro, obgyn, family, peds, psych, rads, medicine sub-I
Step 1/2: both mid-250s
+AOA/+GHHS
Research: 1 non-derm pub, 1 poster, 2 active projects that are in progress (derm related)
Extracurricular: Active in a number of volunteer and leadership activities throughout med school

Late-comer to the derm train. I've already applied and everything is ready to go, but one of my letters is still to be uploaded. Is this actively hurting my odds at this point?

Stats look good, I would get that letter in as soon as possible. Most derm programs will start reviewing applications later (as they typically interview later in the season) but the earlier your application package is complete, the better

 

[dermwish]

I have a main account here but I wanted to make an anonymous account to hide my identity.
Was wondering about my derm chances------

(I posted in allo but I was told it was better to post here, hence crossposting)

M3
School: mid tier MD
Step 1: 261
Step 2: not taken yet
(this is where it gets harsh)
Class rank: unknown but prob low.. quite low (based on pre clinic probably bottom quartile I wouldn't be surprised) ---->
Pre clinic: 2.7GPA. (B-)~76-78%(I never failed a class.. but ugh - our tests preclinical were atrociously written) - excuses I know
Clinic: Haven't received my grades yet but so far it's going super. Attendings and residents get along very well with me and I've been performing above my peers (I think)
Extras: Compete in a sport at the national level (was semi-professional for 1/2 years before going to med)
Research: zero but got accepted for a research year with a top derm guy (though if I have zero chances for derm why bother going)

I welcome any input as harsh as it may be. I have thick skin and I'm looking for objectivity.

 

[asmallchild]

I have a main account here but I wanted to make an anonymous account to hide my identity.
Was wondering about my derm chances------

(I posted in allo but I was told it was better to post here, hence crossposting)

M3
School: mid tier MD
Step 1: 261
Step 2: not taken yet
(this is where it gets harsh)
Class rank: unknown but prob low.. quite low (based on pre clinic probably bottom quartile I wouldn't be surprised) ---->
Pre clinic: 2.7GPA. (B-)~76-78%(I never failed a class.. but ugh - our tests preclinical were atrociously written) - excuses I know
Clinic: Haven't received my grades yet but so far it's going super. Attendings and residents get along very well with me and I've been performing above my peers (I think)
Extras: Compete in a sport at the national level (was semi-professional for 1/2 years before going to med)
Research: zero but got accepted for a research year with a top derm guy (though if I have zero chances for derm why bother going)

I welcome any input as harsh as it may be. I have thick skin and I'm looking for objectivity.

I don't think your chances are zero. Your Step 1 score should get your past all filters. Higher preclinical grades would be nice but many programs will gloss over that if you have high clinical grades

Taking a research year off would obviously boost your chances significantly

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

General question about applying. How many sub-i's are expected? My school doesn't allow any third year electives so the first derm rotation I can do is in July. I don't want this to be a sub-i because I don't think I'll be prepared yet, and would like to schedule at least one lower-level elective first before doing a sub-i. Don't want this to look bad though.

 

[asmallchild]

General question about applying. How many sub-i's are expected? My school doesn't allow any third year electives so the first derm rotation I can do is in July. I don't want this to be a sub-i because I don't think I'll be prepared yet, and would like to schedule at least one lower-level elective first before doing a sub-i. Don't want this to look bad though.

You'll need at least one. The trend now is to do at least two, one home, one away. The worse of an applicant you are on paper, the more rotations you'll need to do.

I agree that doing your derm rotation in July is suboptimal because the residents are new and the focus will be on getting them acclimated to the program as opposed to giving you the best possible chance to shine during your rotation. That being said, there isn't much prep work needed for a derm rotation. I would just schedule it for August and prepare to work as hard as possible (knowing that the majority of derm rotations out there are observational)

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

You'll need at least one. The trend now is to do at least two, one home, one away. The worse of an applicant you are on paper, the more rotations you'll need to do.

I agree that doing your derm rotation in July is suboptimal because the residents are new and the focus will be on getting them acclimated to the program as opposed to giving you the best possible chance to shine during your rotation. That being said, there isn't much prep work needed for a derm rotation. I would just schedule it for August and prepare to work as hard as possible (knowing that the majority of derm rotations out there are observational)

Thanks for your advice. So you don't think I would need a derm elective (lower-level course) before a sub-i? I was thinking of trying to do a medicine sub-i in July then a lower-level derm elective, then derm sub-i; or med sub-i and then 2 derm sub-i's before submitting apps on Sep 15. Any preferences either way?

 

[username456789]

Thanks for your advice. So you don't think I would need a derm elective (lower-level course) before a sub-i? I was thinking of trying to do a medicine sub-i in July then a lower-level derm elective, then derm sub-i; or med sub-i and then 2 derm sub-i's before submitting apps on Sep 15. Any preferences either way?

I think there's confusion on our part regarding this apparent separation between "Derm elective" and "Derm sub-I". In my school, at least, there was no such thing a s a Derm sub-I. You just had a "Derm elective", also referred to colloquially as a "Derm elective". It was your standard dermatology rotation. This was also the case at away programs (referred to as "Derm electives"). I have never heard of offering two different "levels" of Derm rotations. What would you even do on a Derm sub-I, shadow harder?

 

[dermieeast]

I think there's confusion on our part regarding this apparent separation between "Derm elective" and "Derm sub-I". In my school, at least, there was no such thing a s a Derm sub-I. You just had a "Derm elective", also referred to colloquially as a "Derm elective". It was your standard dermatology rotation. This was also the case at away programs (referred to as "Derm electives"). I have never heard of offering two different "levels" of Derm rotations. What would you even do on a Derm sub-I, shadow harder?

I did an away with a derm Sub-I ( the school also had an elective ). It was not shadowing. Saw all of my own patients, presented to an attending. More time spent at VA (1/2 rotation). Had to give a grand rounds presentation (15 minutes) at the end. Was kinda intense.

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

I think there's confusion on our part regarding this apparent separation between "Derm elective" and "Derm sub-I". In my school, at least, there was no such thing a s a Derm sub-I. You just had a "Derm elective", also referred to colloquially as a "Derm elective". It was your standard dermatology rotation. This was also the case at away programs (referred to as "Derm electives"). I have never heard of offering two different "levels" of Derm rotations. What would you even do on a Derm sub-I, shadow harder?

I did an away with a derm Sub-I ( the school also had an elective ). It was not shadowing. Saw all of my own patients, presented to an attending. More time spent at VA (1/2 rotation). Had to give a grand rounds presentation (15 minutes) at the end. Was kinda intense.

Gotcha.

 

[bluenevus]

I’m a longtime lurker finally pulling the trigger and asking for advice and insight, albeit I'm a third year medical student, so it’s still early days.

I go to a Top 15 medical school, my Step 1 score is in the 250s, and I will have around three AAD publications by my interview season, though likely only one will be first-author. My extracurriculars are very strong, and I’m very engaged with my home dermatology department. My kryptonite, I guess, would be my clerkship grades so far. Like I said, it’s still early days, but I’ve been disappointed by my performance in Pediatrics and Medicine, receiving high-pass in both, especially since I know those are very important. There is very little inter-rater reliability regarding how we are graded on the wards at my institution (and probably elsewhere), and so much is dependent on the chemistry with the student and the attending, which I guess in my case has been either extremely good or just lukewarm during the most important times. The remaining less important clerkships that I’ve taken so far have all resulted in honors grades. Notably, I haven’t had Surgery yet, so of course I hope to receive honors for that clerkship. I still may receive AOA as I am familiar with the process at my school and may be a good candidate based on the Step 1 score and notable leadership roles (and hopefully honors grades in other rotations!). I realize that my chances are best at my home institution, which I’m definitely okay with. My research mentor has a history of "going to bat" for her mentees. Probably only 2-3 students in my class will be going into dermatology, barring any stealths.

Anyway, I know that I’m rambling on, but I wanted to hear what you thought about my chances. I'm in no way asking you to cheer me up or boost my self esteem - just keep it real with me! I have no real preference on where I go, so long as it’s not in an area that's "backwards." I just want to be a dermatologist! Honestly, it’s dermatology or bust for me.

tl;dr
MS3 at a top 15 P/F medical school
Step 1: 250s
Clerkships: High-Pass in Pediatrics and Medicine, Honors in others, yet to take Surgery
Extracurriculars: Very strong
Recommendations should be strong, too
Publications: One first-author; probably three total in JAAD

 

[Dral]

You're fine. Just honor your Derm rotations and make sure you interview well.

 

[bluenevus]

You're fine. Just honor your Derm rotations and make sure you interview well.

Okay, thanks for the advice! I'll try to do two away rotations - that seems like the going number, right? And of course one at home. Excuse my ignorance, but is there a resource for finding out whether doing an away at an outside institution is an advantage or not later on in the match? I.e. where do I get the best bang for my buck? Is it just word of mouth or something that is found on residency websites?

 

[PatsyStone]

Okay, thanks for the advice! I'll try to do two away rotations - that seems like the going number, right? And of course one at home. Excuse my ignorance, but is there a resource for finding out whether doing an away at an outside institution is an advantage or not later on in the match? I.e. where do I get the best bang for my buck? Is it just word of mouth or something that is found on residency websites?

The interview excel sheets have this info. In general, the "bigger name" a program, the less likely you're guaranteed to be granted an interview for rotating at the program. Places like UCSF and Penn are fairly explicit that rotating does not influence your chances of getting an interview

 

[bluenevus]

Thanks so much! You guys are amazingly prompt with your responses.

 

[2maitaisplease]

I’m a longtime lurker finally pulling the trigger and asking for advice and insight, albeit I'm a third year medical student, so it’s still early days.

I go to a Top 15 medical school, my Step 1 score is in the 250s, and I will have around three AAD publications by my interview season, though likely only one will be first-author. My extracurriculars are very strong, and I’m very engaged with my home dermatology department. My kryptonite, I guess, would be my clerkship grades so far. Like I said, it’s still early days, but I’ve been disappointed by my performance in Pediatrics and Medicine, receiving high-pass in both, especially since I know those are very important. There is very little inter-rater reliability regarding how we are graded on the wards at my institution (and probably elsewhere), and so much is dependent on the chemistry with the student and the attending, which I guess in my case has been either extremely good or just lukewarm during the most important times. The remaining less important clerkships that I’ve taken so far have all resulted in honors grades. Notably, I haven’t had Surgery yet, so of course I hope to receive honors for that clerkship. I still may receive AOA as I am familiar with the process at my school and may be a good candidate based on the Step 1 score and notable leadership roles (and hopefully honors grades in other rotations!). I realize that my chances are best at my home institution, which I’m definitely okay with. My research mentor has a history of "going to bat" for her mentees. Probably only 2-3 students in my class will be going into dermatology, barring any stealths.

Anyway, I know that I’m rambling on, but I wanted to hear what you thought about my chances. I'm in no way asking you to cheer me up or boost my self esteem - just keep it real with me! I have no real preference on where I go, so long as it’s not in an area that's "backwards." I just want to be a dermatologist! Honestly, it’s dermatology or bust for me.

tl;dr
MS3 at a top 15 P/F medical school
Step 1: 250s
Clerkships: High-Pass in Pediatrics and Medicine, Honors in others, yet to take Surgery
Extracurriculars: Very strong
Recommendations should be strong, too
Publications: One first-author; probably three total in JAAD

Agree you're going to get a lot of interviews. Keep trucking along.

 

[PandaBear44]

School: Mid Tier MD Program (Current M3)
Step 1: 241
Step 2: Not taken
Class rank: Unknown, but probably top 25%
Pre clinic: Were only Pass/Fail - Passed all
Clinic: Only had 2 rotations: ObGyn = Honors, Family Medicine = Honors
Extras: Class President, Derm Interest Group
Research: 1 Derm Case Report, 1 Derm Research Project (current), 1 Derm Chapter being published in textbook, 1 Urology Research Project (current)

My Step 1 is on the lower side for Derm, but I'm very interested in the field. Should I apply straight to Derm or consider parallel applying to another specialty? Any Derm people out there match with a ~240?

 

[dermie1985]

School: Mid Tier MD Program (Current M3)
Step 1: 241
Step 2: Not taken
Class rank: Unknown, but probably top 25%
Pre clinic: Were only Pass/Fail - Passed all
Clinic: Only had 2 rotations: ObGyn = Honors, Family Medicine = Honors
Extras: Class President, Derm Interest Group
Research: 1 Derm Case Report, 1 Derm Research Project (current), 1 Derm Chapter being published in textbook, 1 Urology Research Project (current)

My Step 1 is on the lower side for Derm, but I'm very interested in the field. Should I apply straight to Derm or consider parallel applying to another specialty? Any Derm people out there match with a ~240?

I think you'll be good. I applied with similar stats (low 240s step 1) and matched at what I'd consider a upper tier program and certainly interviewed at multiple top 10 programs. Most of the top programs are looking for perfect applicants but you'll be good as long as u continue to publish, show interest, and make close connections.

Why r u working on an urology research project? I'd devote free time to derm activities if you've already made that choice.

For backup just apply to rigorous prelims. You can often transition those into permanent spots if you don't match.

 

[smartparts]

I have a main account here but I wanted to make an anonymous account to hide my identity.
Was wondering about my derm chances------

(I posted in allo but I was told it was better to post here, hence crossposting)

M3
School: mid tier MD
Step 1: 261
Step 2: not taken yet
(this is where it gets harsh)
Class rank: unknown but prob low.. quite low (based on pre clinic probably bottom quartile I wouldn't be surprised) ---->
Pre clinic: 2.7GPA. (B-)~76-78%(I never failed a class.. but ugh - our tests preclinical were atrociously written) - excuses I know
Clinic: Haven't received my grades yet but so far it's going super. Attendings and residents get along very well with me and I've been performing above my peers (I think)
Extras: Compete in a sport at the national level (was semi-professional for 1/2 years before going to med)
Research: zero but got accepted for a research year with a top derm guy (though if I have zero chances for derm why bother going)

I welcome any input as harsh as it may be. I have thick skin and I'm looking for objectivity.

Was in a similar situation myself and I matched. Middle of class but high board scores. Hard to believe you'd be at the bottom of the class with a 260 step 1. I got some good interviews without a research year. Step 1 will show that you are not at all a liability come time for the derm boards and good clinical grades and research should carry you the rest of the way.

 

[DermLovin]

Throwaway account: also have a main account but wanted to maintain anonymity.

M3
School: Lower-tier med school (newer school, recently achieved full accreditation)
Step 1: 265
Step 2: N/A
Class rank: Top quartile.
Pre clinic: Honored all but 1 pre-clinical courses, received multiple awards for top grade in a course
Clinical: All honors so far (IM, Surg, Peds). AOA awarded after M3, but high chance for it.
Extras: Past President of school's DIG. Involved extensively in national DIGA. Graduated from pharmacy school prior to med school.
Research: Non-derm: couple ophtho pubs and national conference poster, urology national conference poster. HHMI summer fellowship M1/M2 summer w/ expected pub. Derm: 1 project ongoing at nearby institution with expected poster presentation and pub, 1 derm project started with private derm.

Here's my dilemma: I attend a lower-tier med school (chose this school for financial reasons- offered scholarship), and our school doesn't have a derm program. Thus, there's no "home program" for me to work with. This limits my research opportunities and also affects my future LoRs. Also, big tier programs may turn me down just because of my school, regardless of how good an applicant I may be. I've worked really hard to reach out to derm groups at nearby institutions with mixed results (mostly no's due to my inability to travel consistently to their institution with ongoing clerkships, step 1 prep, etc.) but was able to get on one project. Any advice on my chances or what I should do?

I'm heavily contemplating taking a research year, and have used this winter break to send emails to a few programs to see what opportunities there are. Tbh, while I think I'd rly enjoy the research year anyways as I truly want to be an academic dermatologist in the future, my primary goals would be 1) more derm pubs and 2) network w/ the institution and get backing from a couple derm attendings who carry weight in the field and could write LoRs. I know people have mixed feelings about doing a research year for this purpose, but not sure what else I can do given the limitations I have of not having much derm research, not having a home program, and coming from a weaker school. Any thoughts/advice would be very much appreciated! Will do my best to respond to replies as soon as I can!

 

[asmallchild]

Throwaway account: also have a main account but wanted to maintain anonymity.

M3
School: Lower-tier med school (newer school, recently achieved full accreditation)
Step 1: 265
Step 2: N/A
Class rank: Top quartile.
Pre clinic: Honored all but 1 pre-clinical courses, received multiple awards for top grade in a course
Clinical: All honors so far (IM, Surg, Peds). AOA awarded after M3, but high chance for it.
Extras: Past President of school's DIG. Involved extensively in national DIGA. Graduated from pharmacy school prior to med school.
Research: Non-derm: couple ophtho pubs and national conference poster, urology national conference poster. HHMI summer fellowship M1/M2 summer w/ expected pub. Derm: 1 project ongoing at nearby institution with expected poster presentation and pub, 1 derm project started with private derm.

Here's my dilemma: I attend a lower-tier med school (chose this school for financial reasons- offered scholarship), and our school doesn't have a derm program. Thus, there's no "home program" for me to work with. This limits my research opportunities and also affects my future LoRs. Also, big tier programs may turn me down just because of my school, regardless of how good an applicant I may be. I've worked really hard to reach out to derm groups at nearby institutions with mixed results (mostly no's due to my inability to travel consistently to their institution with ongoing clerkships, step 1 prep, etc.) but was able to get on one project. Any advice on my chances or what I should do?

I'm heavily contemplating taking a research year, and have used this winter break to send emails to a few programs to see what opportunities there are. Tbh, while I think I'd rly enjoy the research year anyways as I truly want to be an academic dermatologist in the future, my primary goals would be 1) more derm pubs and 2) network w/ the institution and get backing from a couple derm attendings who carry weight in the field and could write LoRs. I know people have mixed feelings about doing a research year for this purpose, but not sure what else I can do given the limitations I have of not having much derm research, not having a home program, and coming from a weaker school. Any thoughts/advice would be very much appreciated! Will do my best to respond to replies as soon as I can!

Your stats are good enough to apply without a research year. On the other hand, if it is something you are interested in pursuing, it will only further strengthen your application

 

[FIREitUP]

Throwaway account: also have a main account but wanted to maintain anonymity.

M3
School: Lower-tier med school (newer school, recently achieved full accreditation)
Step 1: 265
Step 2: N/A
Class rank: Top quartile.
Pre clinic: Honored all but 1 pre-clinical courses, received multiple awards for top grade in a course
Clinical: All honors so far (IM, Surg, Peds). AOA awarded after M3, but high chance for it.
Extras: Past President of school's DIG. Involved extensively in national DIGA. Graduated from pharmacy school prior to med school.
Research: Non-derm: couple ophtho pubs and national conference poster, urology national conference poster. HHMI summer fellowship M1/M2 summer w/ expected pub. Derm: 1 project ongoing at nearby institution with expected poster presentation and pub, 1 derm project started with private derm.

Here's my dilemma: I attend a lower-tier med school (chose this school for financial reasons- offered scholarship), and our school doesn't have a derm program. Thus, there's no "home program" for me to work with. This limits my research opportunities and also affects my future LoRs. Also, big tier programs may turn me down just because of my school, regardless of how good an applicant I may be. I've worked really hard to reach out to derm groups at nearby institutions with mixed results (mostly no's due to my inability to travel consistently to their institution with ongoing clerkships, step 1 prep, etc.) but was able to get on one project. Any advice on my chances or what I should do?

I'm heavily contemplating taking a research year, and have used this winter break to send emails to a few programs to see what opportunities there are. Tbh, while I think I'd rly enjoy the research year anyways as I truly want to be an academic dermatologist in the future, my primary goals would be 1) more derm pubs and 2) network w/ the institution and get backing from a couple derm attendings who carry weight in the field and could write LoRs. I know people have mixed feelings about doing a research year for this purpose, but not sure what else I can do given the limitations I have of not having much derm research, not having a home program, and coming from a weaker school. Any thoughts/advice would be very much appreciated! Will do my best to respond to replies as soon as I can!

Be more aggressive with finding research now. Posters are good but real pubs are better. See if you can find someone prolific to work with (cold emailing some big names is not a bad idea). Bang out two case reports, get involved in a couple chart reviews--these can get accepted before September if you're diligent. Do two (or three) aways at programs that offer interviews to their rotators and where there are big names that can write you letters. Do these in May/June if you can (July/August/Sept are overcrowded and your experience will suck). Apply to every program and don't be picky--derm is derm. If you do this and you're likeable you should match without a research year.

 

[JSU]

On the fence about taking a year for research:
MS3
School: Top 20
Step 1: Mid 250's
Step 2: N/A
Class rank: School doesn't rank and doesn't have AOA
Pre Clinic: P/F grading, all P
Clinical: 1 Honors, 2 Pass so far, hoping for more Honors
Lots of community service work
Research: 3 derm case reports/light reviews. Working on more intensive review now and anticipate another few case reports this year.

I have 1 LOR but don't know my home program well yet as we don't do derm until 4th year. A year would give me the opportunity to get to know my home program and do some more intensive projects than case reports. I know that getting into derm at all is insane, but have 2 DREAM programs in mind that are top 10-15. 1. Do you think I have a chance at derm? 2. Do you think a year of research would give me a better chance at my dream programs?

 

[asmallchild]

On the fence about taking a year for research:
MS3
School: Top 20
Step 1: Mid 250's
Step 2: N/A
Class rank: School doesn't rank and doesn't have AOA
Pre Clinic: P/F grading, all P
Clinical: 1 Honors, 2 Pass so far, hoping for more Honors
Lots of community service work
Research: 3 derm case reports/light reviews. Working on more intensive review now and anticipate another few case reports this year.

I have 1 LOR but don't know my home program well yet as we don't do derm until 4th year. A year would give me the opportunity to get to know my home program and do some more intensive projects than case reports. I know that getting into derm at all is insane, but have 2 DREAM programs in mind that are top 10-15. 1. Do you think I have a chance at derm? 2. Do you think a year of research would give me a better chance at my dream programs?

1) Your stats are just fine

2) A year of research will almost always give you a better chance. A couple of questions to ask: are there any current residents at your dream programs who have done research years? If so, where did they do it? Some programs will look more favorably if you dedicate a year specifically with them.

 

[PatsyStone]

On the fence about taking a year for research:
MS3
School: Top 20
Step 1: Mid 250's
Step 2: N/A
Class rank: School doesn't rank and doesn't have AOA
Pre Clinic: P/F grading, all P
Clinical: 1 Honors, 2 Pass so far, hoping for more Honors
Lots of community service work
Research: 3 derm case reports/light reviews. Working on more intensive review now and anticipate another few case reports this year.

I have 1 LOR but don't know my home program well yet as we don't do derm until 4th year. A year would give me the opportunity to get to know my home program and do some more intensive projects than case reports. I know that getting into derm at all is insane, but have 2 DREAM programs in mind that are top 10-15. 1. Do you think I have a chance at derm? 2. Do you think a year of research would give me a better chance at my dream programs?

Since you're from a top-20 school, you'll be OK without the research year. It's great to have dream programs, but realize this process crushes a lot of dreams.

 

[JSU]

Since you're from a top-20 school, you'll be OK without the research year. It's great to have dream programs, but realize this process crushes a lot of dreams.

Thanks!

1) Your stats are just fine
2) A year of research will almost always give you a better chance. A couple of questions to ask: are there any current residents at your dream programs who have done research years? If so, where did they do it? Some programs will look more favorably if you dedicate a year specifically with them.

Thank you so much for your feedback! I've been trying to sort through their resident lists but am having some difficulty finding this info. Any tips?

 

[dermie1985]

Thanks!



Thank you so much for your feedback! I've been trying to sort through their resident lists but am having some difficulty finding this info. Any tips?

I'd also just like to chime in re: research year. If you're not interested in research/academia, I'd say don't do it and just apply. You may not match your top two choices (Top 10 programs are really a crapshoot for everyone), but you also may not match to those programs even with a research year.

If you are at all interested in academia/research, I'd say do it. Advantages are (1) research years are fun - in most cases you're getting paid to work reasonable hours on projects related to your future career path. You have lots of time for traveling (conferences, pleasure) that you don't normally have as a med student (2) you make great connections both at your research institution program and elsewhere through conferences - this makes matching easier and your application stronger (3) you learn something. This sort of depends on a lot of variables like project, mentor quality, etc. but you should only do a research year if you find a high-quality mentor/project anyway. I like to think of medical careers as 30-40 years of derm. 1 year of research isn't much in the long-run especially if it means it gives you a leg up in academics and the residency matching process. Just my thoughts.

 

[saveourpens]

MS3
School: Top 20
Step 1: Low 240s
Step 2: N/A
Class rank: Unknown. Probably decidedly average.
Pre Clinic: P/F grading, all P.
Clinical: 1 HP, 3 Pass so far, confident I'll get HP/H the rest of the way.
Research: 5 peer reviewed pubs so far (no derm, some are from undergrad). Currently working on derm chart review. Expecting at least 7 pubs by application time.
Other: Serve as an advisor to my brother for his company, which regularly receives national/international media attention. (this probably isn't relevant but it would probably be the most interesting thing on my CV...latest project was one of the top trends on Facebook for 3 days).

Any feedback would be much appreciated!

 

[asmallchild]

MS3
School: Top 20
Step 1: Low 240s
Step 2: N/A
Class rank: Unknown. Probably decidedly average.
Pre Clinic: P/F grading, all P.
Clinical: 1 HP, 3 Pass so far, confident I'll get HP/H the rest of the way.
Research: 5 peer reviewed pubs so far (no derm, some are from undergrad). Currently working on derm chart review. Expecting at least 7 pubs by application time.
Other: Serve as an advisor to my brother for his company, which regularly receives national/international media attention. (this probably isn't relevant but it would probably be the most interesting thing on my CV...latest project was one of the top trends on Facebook for 3 days).

Any feedback would be much appreciated!

You should be fine. I keep hearing the Step 1 cutoff keeps rising. 240 should be enough to get you past most if not all cutoff filters for Step 1. You are going to want some honors and quickly on your clinical rotations. Unless your school has some ridiculous limit on how many honors and HPs they hand out, a pass (particularly in surgery and/or internal medicine rotations) is not a good look.

Buffing up the research is a good idea as well but it won't mean much if your clinical grades don't improve

Your "other" is going to be a great thing to bring up during interviews. Be sure to keep that tucked away for interviews and to be able to talk eloquently and enthusiastically about what you do for the company!

 

[JSU]

I'd also just like to chime in re: research year. If you're not interested in research/academia, I'd say don't do it and just apply. You may not match your top two choices (Top 10 programs are really a crapshoot for everyone), but you also may not match to those programs even with a research year.

If you are at all interested in academia/research, I'd say do it. Advantages are (1) research years are fun - in most cases you're getting paid to work reasonable hours on projects related to your future career path. You have lots of time for traveling (conferences, pleasure) that you don't normally have as a med student (2) you make great connections both at your research institution program and elsewhere through conferences - this makes matching easier and your application stronger (3) you learn something. This sort of depends on a lot of variables like project, mentor quality, etc. but you should only do a research year if you find a high-quality mentor/project anyway. I like to think of medical careers as 30-40 years of derm. 1 year of research isn't much in the long-run especially if it means it gives you a leg up in academics and the residency matching process. Just my thoughts.

Thank you for this reply. I have been thinking about a career in academia but am not dead set on it. That being said, I do agree that the research year is probably a good idea and I'm looking into pursuing one.

 

[bluenevus]

Hi friends! Two questions as I'm working on my fourth-year schedule.

1) How important is it to take my medicine AI during the first half of my fourth-year? I've heard conflicting things from people who have matched into dermatology, such as "No need to worry about taking your medicine AI until second semester, especially if you honored third-year medicine." I have a recommendation letter from my third-year medicine attending that will go into my app.

2) How important is Step 2 CK? I'm wondering if I need to consider taking a month off to study. My Step 1 score was in the 250s. I'm wondering if my mentality should be "Go hard!" or "Just don't f*** it up!"

Thanks a lot!

 

[dloading]

Hey all, just looking for an update on chances & tips for applying now that i'm farther into 3rd year.
Me: non-trad student with previous i-banking career at a top 20-30 school w/ strong home program
Step 1: 265-270
Pre-clinical: all honors, #1 rank
Clinical: H in IM, family, psych; HP in surg (might bump up to honors, I'll find out soon)
AOA: there is no junior AOA at my school, I feel like I have a strong shot for senior AOA
Research: two derm pubs - 2nd author on 1, mid-author on another. two derm posters, one of which got a little award. one non-derm presentation. one non-derm pub from work I did during my gap year
Leadership/volunteer: not a ton. ran a non-derm student interest group - largest group on my campus that required a lot of work
Letters: Should have two strong home letters from faculty I've been doing research with. Strong IM letter (should I include non-derm letters?)

Basically, what should I be doing at this point? I feel like I won't have time for super intensive research at this point, but should be able to pump out some case reports/series. Is the consensus two aways plus a home rotation? Thanks everyone!

 

[asmallchild]

Hey all, just looking for an update on chances & tips for applying now that i'm farther into 3rd year.
Me: non-trad student with previous i-banking career at a top 20-30 school w/ strong home program
Step 1: 265-270
Pre-clinical: all honors, #1 rank
Clinical: H in IM, family, psych; HP in surg (might bump up to honors, I'll find out soon)
AOA: there is no junior AOA at my school, I feel like I have a strong shot for senior AOA
Research: two derm pubs - 2nd author on 1, mid-author on another. two derm posters, one of which got a little award. one non-derm presentation. one non-derm pub from work I did during my gap year
Leadership/volunteer: not a ton. ran a non-derm student interest group - largest group on my campus that required a lot of work
Letters: Should have two strong home letters from faculty I've been doing research with. Strong IM letter (should I include non-derm letters?)

Basically, what should I be doing at this point? I feel like I won't have time for super intensive research at this point, but should be able to pump out some case reports/series. Is the consensus two aways plus a home rotation? Thanks everyone!

Just keep doing what you've been doing. More research will always help. I agree you won't need anything more intensive at this point.

For such a strong applicant, I'd recommend one home rotation and one away. Two if you really want to see how another program is run and don't think you would rub anyone the wrong way during the rotation. I'm still convinced away rotations hurt more than they help for strong applicants like yourself.

 

[asmallchild]

Hi friends! Two questions as I'm working on my fourth-year schedule.

1) How important is it to take my medicine AI during the first half of my fourth-year? I've heard conflicting things from people who have matched into dermatology, such as "No need to worry about taking your medicine AI until second semester, especially if you honored third-year medicine." I have a recommendation letter from my third-year medicine attending that will go into my app.

2) How important is Step 2 CK? I'm wondering if I need to consider taking a month off to study. My Step 1 score was in the 250s. I'm wondering if my mentality should be "Go hard!" or "Just don't f*** it up!"

Thanks a lot!

1) I don't think it's necessary to do the medicine AI in the first half of 4th year if you've already honored medicine and have a strong letter to boot. The danger of doing it in the 2nd half of the year is that it ruins the period when you're winding down

2) Not very unless you are set on going to a program that requires it (you'll need to check each program website to be sure). I don't think you'll need to take a month off if you're good at standardized tests. Part time studying during that 1 month should be enough. At the same time, don't ignore it altogether. It doesn't look good to have a significant dropoff from Step 1 to Step 2 CK.

 

[bluenevus]

1) I don't think it's necessary to do the medicine AI in the first half of 4th year if you've already honored medicine and have a strong letter to boot. The danger of doing it in the 2nd half of the year is that it ruins the period when you're winding down

2) Not very unless you are set on going to a program that requires it (you'll need to check each program website to be sure). I don't think you'll need to take a month off if you're good at standardized tests. Part time studying during that 1 month should be enough. At the same time, don't ignore it altogether. It doesn't look good to have a significant dropoff from Step 1 to Step 2 CK.

Thanks for your help!! Have a good weekend.

 

[dropout87]

Does research in other areas help if applying to dermatology? I have 3 months before my third year ends and I have 2 first author derm papers, 3 ophthalmology conference abstracts, 2 posters on oncology. Thanks.

 

[asmallchild]

Does research in other areas help if applying to dermatology? I have 3 months before my third year ends and I have 2 first author derm papers, 3 ophthalmology conference abstracts, 2 posters on oncology. Thanks.

Any research helps, derm-specific research tends to be more helpful because it allows you to build relationships with mentors who can go to bat for you come application time.

 

[chipotlechips12345]

M3
School: mid tier MD school
Step 1: 260
Step 2: haven't taken yet
Class rank: unknown but probably high. I think I will be in strong contention for AOA.
Pre clinic: Mostly honors.
Clinic: Mostly honors as well (2 H, 1 HP so far. waiting on other grades/rotations)
Extras: Co-president of Dermatology Interest group at school. Also involved on a few other executive boards throughout my 1st 2 years. Good EC experience.
Research: This is my dilemma. No research experience in medical school (and my research in undergrad is unimpressive). I was unsure about what specialty I wanted to go into earlier in my medical school career and didn't aggressively pursue research. I did a public health/community service internship b/w my M1 and M2 years and got a poster out of it. Otherwise nothing unfortunately. I am leaning towards taking a year off for research to really fill that gap in my application. Some people suggested that I try to get on a project ASAP and apply w/o taking a research year. My home institutions derm program doesn't have any current projects I can join and i'm uncertain if i'll be able to get a good product/publication by the time applications open. Do you think I should just commit to doing a research year at this point or try to get on a derm project and apply this coming cycle?
I should note that a friend of mine might be able to get me into a year long derm lab/project at a top 5 MD school (if i choose to do a research year).

 

[asmallchild]

M3
School: mid tier MD school
Step 1: 260
Step 2: haven't taken yet
Class rank: unknown but probably high. I think I will be in strong contention for AOA.
Pre clinic: Mostly honors.
Clinic: Mostly honors as well (2 H, 1 HP so far. waiting on other grades/rotations)
Extras: Co-president of Dermatology Interest group at school. Also involved on a few other executive boards throughout my 1st 2 years. Good EC experience.
Research: This is my dilemma. No research experience in medical school (and my research in undergrad is unimpressive). I was unsure about what specialty I wanted to go into earlier in my medical school career and didn't aggressively pursue research. I did a public health/community service internship b/w my M1 and M2 years and got a poster out of it. Otherwise nothing unfortunately. I am leaning towards taking a year off for research to really fill that gap in my application. Some people suggested that I try to get on a project ASAP and apply w/o taking a research year. My home institutions derm program doesn't have any current projects I can join and i'm uncertain if i'll be able to get a good product/publication by the time applications open. Do you think I should just commit to doing a research year at this point or try to get on a derm project and apply this coming cycle?
I should note that a friend of mine might be able to get me into a year long derm lab/project at a top 5 MD school (if i choose to do a research year).

Your stats are good enough where you don't absolutely need the research year. I do find it odd you have a home program that doesn't have ANY active projects open for interested medical students? Are there any other dermatology departments around you where you could latch onto a project?

Conversely, if you want to take the year off to pursue research, it will only strengthen your application. I have only met one student who regretted taking the year off to do research. I've met many more who regretted applying without putting their best foot forward application-wise.

 

[dropout87]

Your stats are good enough where you don't absolutely need the research year. I do find it odd you have a home program that doesn't have ANY active projects open for interested medical students? Are there any other dermatology departments around you where you could latch onto a project?

Conversely, if you want to take the year off to pursue research, it will only strengthen your application. I have only met one student who regretted taking the year off to do research. I've met many more who regretted applying without putting their best foot forward application-wise.

So how much research is needed if some students are taking a year off (I am assuming their scores/grades are not as superb)? If you gave good board scores ~260s and good clinical grades, how many papers should one aim for? Thanks!

 

[asmallchild]

So how much research is needed if some students are taking a year off (I am assuming their scores/grades are not as superb)? If you gave good board scores ~260s and good clinical grades, how many papers should one aim for? Thanks!

The more the merrier. High quality research is always better than a mere case report but there's nothing stating you can't get a paper in the JID as well as knocking off a couple of case reports to throwaway journals. More than the number of papers, the research year is of benefit because it should allow you to work with some heavy hitters in academic dermatology who can hopefully help you come application time (LORs, phone calls to program directors, or simply greasing your path into the residency program that they may be affiliated with)

 

[Virtuoso87]

Hi everybody,

No derm home residency program so I always thought it might be a bit of a pipe dream but maybe not.

MS3. Will be done with third year in mid April.
School: Public school in NE
Step 1: 257
Step 2: Haven't taken it, considering putting it off until ~October?
Class rank: Unknown.
Pre clinic: P/F. They keep number grades for AOA consideration only. 90+ for all the big classes (phys, path, pharm etc) so hopefully I have a shot at AOA
Clinic: Honors in FM. HP in OBGYN, Neuro, Psych, Medicine. I'm hoping med will bump up to honors, my school is strict on giving out H/HP and re-evaluates after a while. No grades for surgery or pediatrics yet (not done). 90+ on all shelf exams.
Extras: Student advisor, Served as a service leader for an area free clinic all second year (helps coordinate the clinic, assists at it, organize volunteers) so a lot of community service hours there too.
Research: Need to work on this. I reached out to a local dermatologist and through that am currently writing a derm related paper and hopefully can get a case report out of it too. Nothing else. Started cards related research in the summer between first and second year but then the program funding changed so I lost that opportunity about a week in and have nothing to show for it haha.

Thanks for any advice/suggestions

 

[asmallchild]

Hi everybody,

No derm home residency program so I always thought it might be a bit of a pipe dream but maybe not.

MS3. Will be done with third year in mid April.
School: Public school in NE
Step 1: 257
Step 2: Haven't taken it, considering putting it off until ~October?
Class rank: Unknown.
Pre clinic: P/F. They keep number grades for AOA consideration only. 90+ for all the big classes (phys, path, pharm etc) so hopefully I have a shot at AOA
Clinic: Honors in FM. HP in OBGYN, Neuro, Psych, Medicine. I'm hoping med will bump up to honors, my school is strict on giving out H/HP and re-evaluates after a while. No grades for surgery or pediatrics yet (not done). 90+ on all shelf exams.
Extras: Student advisor, Served as a service leader for an area free clinic all second year (helps coordinate the clinic, assists at it, organize volunteers) so a lot of community service hours there too.
Research: Need to work on this. I reached out to a local dermatologist and through that am currently writing a derm related paper and hopefully can get a case report out of it too. Nothing else. Started cards related research in the summer between first and second year but then the program funding changed so I lost that opportunity about a week in and have nothing to show for it haha.

Thanks for any advice/suggestions

Looks good so far.

You'll need to buff up the research as much as you can. For someone without a home program, I would err on the side of more aways to get your name out there and to make sure you get enough LORs.