WAMC/School List Help - MD-PhD 4.0/528

[ranmasaotome]

PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THIS MESSAGE

Message edited to clear info.

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[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

Good luck. My stats aren't half as good as yours, but I'm also a trans applicant fleeing my hellhole state, solidarity!

 

[ranmasaotome]

Good luck. My stats aren't half as good as yours, but I'm also a trans applicant fleeing my hellhole state, solidarity!

It's really stressful having to deal with having the available schools cut in half, so I totally get you. We've got this! 🏳️‍⚧️

 

[theoceanman]

You should have 150 hours of minimum clinical experience and 50 hours of shadowing total, with a focus on primary care (FM/IM/Pediatrics). You should also to get 150 non-clinical hours, especially if it's towards 150 hours of community service that serves a specific patient population to get you more mission-fit for schools.

These three factors may result in a screen-out, and as you have stated, it does appear a bit too PhD-like, rather than MD-PhD. I am not sure if others would agree with my points, but I would recommend getting the previously-stated hours to avoid screen-outs and potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars wasted on applications.

 

[ranmasaotome]

LYou should have 150 hours of minimum clinical experience and 50 hours of shadowing total, with a focus on primary care (FM/IM/Pediatrics). You should also to get 150 non-clinical hours, especially if it's towards 150 hours of community service that serves a specific patient population to get you more mission-fit for schools.

These three factors may result in a screen-out, and as you have stated, it does appear a bit too PhD-like, rather than MD-PhD. I am not sure if others would agree with my points, but I would recommend getting the previously-stated hours to avoid screen-outs and potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars wasted on applications.

Do you really think it's worth delaying? I'm already two gap years in, with another to go before 2024, and the idea of spending 4 years in a pre-matriculation holding pattern is really tough, especially given how long the MD-PhD is. It would also be a real struggle to get any more time off work to get more clinical hours.

 

[theoceanman]

Do you really think it's worth delaying? I'm already two gap years in, with another to go before 2024, and the idea of spending 4 years in a pre-matriculation holding pattern is really tough, especially given how long the MD-PhD is. It would also be a real struggle to get any more time off work to get more clinical hours.

Have you talked to any advisors, especially those affiliated or previously affiliated with MD-PhD programs and did they express any concerns? The only screen-out possibilities, without me nitpicking, is just hours. Not having hours is quite a common method of screen-out for many schools so I just didn't want you to apply and lose all that money.

 

[ranmasaotome]

Have you talked to any advisors, especially those affiliated or previously affiliated with MD-PhD programs and did they express any concerns? The only screen-out possibilities, without me nitpicking, is just hours. Not having hours is quite a common method of screen-out for many schools so I just didn't want you to apply and lose all that money.

Most of my advisors seem to think I should be fine on the clinical hours front because the pandemic has made schools lower their expectations on that front given how hard hours have been to get (many hospitals didn't re-open to volunteers or shadowing until 2023), but I'm going off of a limited set of impressions.

 

[theoceanman]

Most of my advisors seem to think I should be fine on the clinical hours front because the pandemic has made schools lower their expectations on that front given how hard hours have been to get (many hospitals didn't re-open to volunteers or shadowing until 2023), but I'm going off of a limited set of impressions.

Then if that was said, I would be worried about the lack of shadowing hours, where it isn't at least 50 hours, and having no non-clinical volunteering. @chilly_md Would you mind inputting some of your expertise?

 

[chilly_md]

Then if that was said, I would be worried about the lack of shadowing hours, where it isn't at least 50 hours, and having no non-clinical volunteering. @chilly_md Would you mind inputting some of your expertise?

I don’t do MD/PhD really, but it is 2023. There has been ample time to get clinical experience and shadowing. Part-time jobs have been available throughout this period as well and there are other avenues outside of a hospital such as hospice.

 

[ranmasaotome]

I don’t do MD/PhD really, but it is 2023. There has been ample time to get clinical experience and shadowing. Part-time jobs have been available throughout this period as well and there are other avenues outside of a hospital such as hospice.

I don't think a part time job would have been possible during my current position, and it is unclear if my institution would even allow me to. Even getting volunteer hours until the last few months required me to work a very early morning weekday shift before work, because the hospitals with weekend positions did not open up volunteer slots until this year.

In any case, I think the question is as much (and I know you said you don't do MD/PhD as much, so this goes for anyone), knowing this is probably the biggest weakness of my application, how should it affect my school list? Is there any good way to prepare my application to minimize the effect this has?

 

[ranmasaotome]

Thank you both for your help, by the way, it is really appreciated.

 

[wysdoc]

Thank you both for your help, by the way, it is really appreciated.

Would you like me to move your question over to the Physician Scientist forum? More people over there are informed on MD/PhD applications

 

[ranmasaotome]

Would you like me to move your question over to the Physician Scientist forum? More people over there are informed on MD/PhD applications

If you think that it would be a better place for that, please do! Thank you again!

 

[chilly_md]

In any case, I think the question is as much (and I know you said you don't do MD/PhD as much, so this goes for anyone), knowing this is probably the biggest weakness of my application, how should it affect my school list? Is there any good way to prepare my application to minimize the effect this has?

For MD/PhD, it matters less and you did get over 100 hours. I imagine having programs like OHSU, Tufts, and Hofstra instead of just the first 10 schools on your list improved your chances. I do not know if MD/PhD applicants should cap their total number of apps in case they have more essays to complete than MD applicants.

We have moved this thread. You could PM Fencer to see availability for reviewing your app as well.

 

[ioniansea]

(Grain of salt bc I’m not affiliated w MD-PhD admissions.) You have better stats, more research productivity than me, and I didn’t have any shadowing- but I had 8 IIs and several As. I would definitely encourage you to apply this cycle.

I’m also a big fan of Fencer’s advice for how to apply broadly for MD-PhD. I think if you do that, you shouldn’t have to apply to more than 20 schools. Again, just my opinion.

I’m also trans so totally get the hesitancy for certain states. :/ It sucks.

 

[thr1932359]

I don't think >150 clinical hours is a must for MSTP; I didn't have that many (actually around the same amount you have) and it was not an issue when I applied. At least, I was never asked about it when I was interviewing. I think that you should have at least a modicum of nonclinical volunteering experience though. More important than the hours past a certain point is how you convey the takeaways from your clinical experience in your writing and how the time you've spent convinced you to pursue medical school and MD-PhD training.

 

[fhuiwela]

Just wanted to add that I had 80 clinical hours and it didn't seem to hold me back at all, so I think you're fine.

 

[ironnite6]

Apply this cycle, you are competitive. Our applications on paper are very similar and I interviewed with many schools on your list. "Too PhD" is probably not a bad thing for MD/PhD as long as you have a narrative for your clinical motivations. In my experience the interviews seemed more like PhD program interviews than anything else. I also had ~150 clinical hours, please do not delay a year if you feel you are ready now.

 

[driverfearless]

I'm not affiliated with MD-PhD admissions, but just chiming in because I had a similar app to yours. Same GPA, much lower mcat. 4k research hours with 2 first author pubs, but only 160 clinical hours, 90 hours shadowing, and no non-clinical volunteering. I had no trouble getting interviews (acceptances were a different story because I think my research was too material science related and not medical enough). I did recently get off the WL at a decent MSTP though and was able to get an MD-only acceptance even with my research-heavy app. Like others have said, as long as you show a narrative of why you want to do clinical medicine, I think you should be fine. At the school where I was accepted to the regular MD program, my interviewers told me they were really touched by my MD personal statement, so I think that's what helped offset my less-than-ideal hours.

 

[ranmasaotome]

Thank you all for your help! I'm going to go ahead with this cycle and with my school list as posted (assuming I can get all the secondaries written, I'm prewriting now and it's tough haha).