WAMC 1st time nontrad, career changer

[eptesicusfuscus]

Hello! I'm a current chemistry graduate PhD student looking to apply to vet school in the next 1-2 cycles. Strong interest in zoo, conservation vet med or equine. Would also be interested in working in nuclear medicine/diagnostic imaging since my current work is with PET imaging in humans. Both very far down the road, I understand.

I was pre-vet until my sophomore/junior year in UG, swapped paths to graduate school because I didnt think my application was worth it if I didn't have veterinary hours (which still makes me hesitant to apply now). Most of the reason for not getting additional experience in the past was related to needing to pay bills-- surprisingly my horse jobs were paying more then any clinics in the area.

Main concerns are with VMCAS GPA and veterinary hours. I have contacted every clinic in my area, even venturing out east to the Hamptons (>1h away) to contact vets and clinics for shadowing opportunities (SA, exotics, pocket pets) and I've applied to several veterinary assistant positions. If I got one of the VA jobs I would master out that same semester, but until then I need healthcare and to pay for bills :') I'm planning on contacting the aquarium and wildlife rescues for volunteer positions, but have already reached out once or twice so it feels kind of hopeless.

Based on the VMCAS excel sheet I would need to take (and ace) 5 four credit courses to bump my GPA above a 3.2. Based on the cost of courses and degree programs I would basically need a straight A masters program on top of vet school. Plus it would just average out any repeat classes I've taken before. It just feels like a lose-lose to try and fix my GPA.

NY resident

Cumulative GPA: 3.12 (VMCAS), 3.3 undergrad and grad
science GPA: 2.98 w/o grade replacement, 3.28 w/grade replacement
last 45: 3.6

Any degrees achieved: BS Chemistry, BS Biology; Chemistry PhD in progress expected 2026 (possible mastering out)

GRE results: N/A

Veterinary Experience:
- 20 h in high school shadowing zoo veterinarian :')
Over the past two months I have contacted every single clinic within 60 minutes (Long Island, NY) and have either been declined or not heard back

Animal Experience:
>8000 hours managing small (<12 horses) barn
~4000 hours groom/barn hand large equestrian facility
~60 hours wild animal handling + care in Panama as research assistant
not included, but noted pets owned: equine, canine, reptile, amphibian, aquatics

Research Experience:
1. Graduate chemistry research -- development of novel radiochemsitry methodology for novel positron emission tomography (PET) tracers & brain penetrating peptides (>4k hours)
2. Transmission of bacteria among a community of horses, flies, and bats; OneHealth + vet med focus (470+ hours)
3. Amphibians as bioindicators of watershed quality, survey for chytrid fungus (730+ hours)
4. Anolis anatomy research (150 hours)

Awards/scholarships:
- Chemical Biology Training Program (CBTP) fellowship funded by NIH
- Outstanding graduate teaching assistant for undergraduate labs
- Most outstanding chemistry student (awarded by department, approved by faculty board)
- Virginia Herpetological Society grant
- Undergraduate university grant for research
- Deans list towards end of UG career (went from 2.8->3.9 semester GPAs, ended with 3.3 UG cGPA)

Extracurriculars:
- IHSA/IDA equestrian team throughout undergrad (riding since 5yo)
- hiking and fitness leader
- BBB biological honors society (VP, secretary)
- ACS chemistry club (VP, historian)
- Pre-vet club founding member (VP)
- Two additional academic clubs/organizations

Employment:
- Graduate teaching assistant
- Library circulation desk
- Undergrad teaching assistant (biochemistry, organic chemistry)
- Undergrad lab assistant (microbiology, biochemistry)

LOR:
x2 UG research advisors (PhDs)
x1 Graduate advisor, PI (PhD)
x1 "group letter" from owners of equine facilities
looking to get 1-2 vet LORs if they would respond and let me shadow/work for them :') I could try reaching out to the zoo vet I shadowed in high school but that was years ago so I doubt they remember me

School List: Limited to US based schools and unfortunately also limited geographically due to job opportunities for my partner (aka no midwest + west coast, no LMU)
- Cornell (IS); no LIU
- UTK (dream school but GPA falls below 3.2 for OOS applicants so likely unable to apply here)
- VMCVM

Thank you if you read all of this! Looking for advice on school lists, contacting people for vet experience, and possibly some consolation regarding my GPA.

edit #1: corrected distance needed to travel to clinics from 40m to 60m, apologies
edit #2: updated science GPA verbiage

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[JaynaAli]

Respectfully, you are not ready to apply. You absolutely need veterinary hours. These are not optional.

I realize you’re having difficulty finding opportunities, but there is no point in applying until you have some. Cornell may not have a published minimum, but their website clearly says they highly value this, expect both breadth and depth, and want you to have a firm understanding of the field. There’s no way you’ve accomplished that in 20 hours in one small niche area of vet med 6+ years ago. You will not be competitive until you have more hours. Most places expect you to have a LOR from a vet, and you don’t have that. Your non-vet experiences are strong and interesting, but we want to be absolutely sure you know what you’re signing up for, and that means having vet experience, preferably in multiple aspects of the field.

Your GPA is obviously on the lower side but probably not out of the realm of acceptance. It’s concerning that your retake GPA is lower than your initial one, so the science GPA may be what holds you back a bit on the GPA side of things. Most schools like to see an upward trend if GPAs are on the lower side. So definitely do your best on classes you have left or choose to take.

All told, I think you’ve got a fair chance down the road (though it will take applying smartly and maybe multiple attempts), but right now you’re just not going to be competitive without veterinary experience. So until you get that, don’t waste money and time applying.

Most of my vet experiences were obtained via personal connections and word of mouth rather than cold calling places. For example, my mom worked with a guy who’s daughter was married to a vet and he helped facilitate that introduction/job, my prevet mentor was married to a pathologist who had an opening in their lab, etc.

 

[eptesicusfuscus]

Thank you for the thorough response. If you don't mind I have a few questions.

I am aware vet hours are not optional and I am not ready to apply. That is why I made this post with all my stats asking for help with contacting vets/clinics for veterinary hours. I don't know of any other place to post stats and get helpful responses, so I apologize if I posted this in the wrong location.

I'm confused why my retake GPA being lower is concerning. If all grades including retakes (which are a C and below) are averaged, would it not be expected to be a lower number? Is my calculation for science retake GPA incorrect? Without retakes (which I interpreted as just the latest grade) would be expected to be higher because the grades are mostly As/Bs.

Since I am a newer resident to NY, I do not have connections like you mention in your last point. Would you suggest I reach out to my connections in other states (TN, MD) to ask to shadow them? This has been a thing I've debated doing, but when connections are >6 h away it doesn't seem conducive to getting meaningful hours. I really have spoken to all the people I can think of, as have my family (unfortunately), which is why I was trying to volunteer at the aquarium or animal rescues to try and get my foot in the door. Would you not recommend that path?
edit: I also do not have a pre-vet mentor

 

[Georgethecat]

Maybe the confusion involves grade replacement? With replacement, the newer/higher grade is considered. But a lot of schools average instead of replace and would use both grades in their calculations.

Your original science GPA before any retakes is likely the lowest, then retakes with grade averaging, and the highest gpa would be with grade replacement. This is assuming that you made a higher grade when you retook classes than the original grade.

 

[JaynaAli]

This is the right spot to post this type of thing, but the way you said you were wanting to apply in the next cycle or two (which the next cycle just opened) I was just making it clear that I don’t think you should be applying this year.

Maybe it’s just the way you phrased the GPA thing that confused me. The way you referred to them GPA with retakes vs GPA without retakes I was thinking you meant you had a 3.28 initially and took some again and did WORSE on the retakes than you did initially (and were blaming Covid) and they brought your GPA down further to a 2.98. But I guess by “GPA without retakes” you meant GPA with replacement, where you replaced the initial grade with a higher retake grade? I was just confused I guess. I’d say averaging the two grades is probably more common than outright replacement but you’d have to check with the schools and see what their retake policy is and how they factor these into GPA.

I can’t tell you how to be successful finding experiences. Everyone’s path is different. I just shared how I found mine. If that won’t work for you, it’s no skin off my nose.

 

[eleanor713]

With your background, you might have more luck reaching out to animal research facilities and work as a animal caretaker or a specialty service like radiology or pathology. That's how I got my first vet experience without having a background in veterinary medicine. I was able to make connections through those vets I shadowed to other clinics in the area. LIU and Stoney Brook would be places to check out and Mispro has a location in Long Island. The Humane society near me has volunteer positions during spay/neuter days like wrapping packs, setting up the room, etc, but it could also lead to a connection with a veterinarian if there are similar programs near you. If you've been riding since you were 5, I'm sure you've come in contact with equine vets or know people that have and a school with research like you are talking about probably does animal research which requires a veterinarian. It's not always easy but looking further than just small animal clinics will probably help you out more!

 

[eleanor713]

Also, as frustrating as it is, everyone applying within the past couple of cycles had to deal with COVID affecting their grades. You can't go back and change it but you can work hard to have good grades now!

 

[eptesicusfuscus]

Thank you! I have updated my post to reflect grade replacement rather than retakes. Apologies for the confusion.

re: horse vets -- Yes I have also already contacted my horse's vet and they have all their shadowing spots filled for the summer already, so my next chance to get in with them would be next fall!

I'll definitely take a look at the lab animal vets! Thank you!

 

[Gina Lawson]

Have you contacted shelters and non-profits for veterinary experience opportunities?

 

[eptesicusfuscus]

Have you contacted shelters and non-profits for veterinary experience opportunities?

I have! I contacted fewer compared to strictly clinics/animal hospitals, but am still waiting on hearing back from the shelters. I'll add some more shelters and non-profits to my contact list.

 

[lizardman]

Hey! No additional notes on the above advice as it’s all very sound, but I’d also be looking for jobs as a kennel assistant in a clinic. These often turn into veterinary assistant jobs after awhile and count as clinic experience in most cases as you’re observing and working to provide husbandry to patients and keep the clinic environment sanitary. Sometimes clinics that would’ve turned you down for shadowing (with how busy most practices are right now, a lot of them aren’t into the idea of someone to keep track of floating around) may reconsider if you offer to come on as a kennel assistant or even receptionist if you’re comfortable and allow you to get a foot in the door.

Unsure if you’re already offering this, but just something to think about. ERs in particular are always looking for people to clean kennels and runs, feed and walk patients, do laundry and dishes, sweep and mop, etc etc but rarely have those openings posted online. Some are, though: I searched the keyword ‘kennel’ and set my location to Long Island on Indeed and a bunch just came up.

Once you have some hours under your belt, experiences will be easier to come by. I personally started in one of those corporate preventative care vans learning all about vaccines and schedules, basic restraint, etc. for a few weekends and worked up from there. Good luck!

 

[eptesicusfuscus]

Thank you!! I assumed that was the case (re: super busy + keeping track of a new person).

I'll look into non VA/shadowing positions! I have noticed kennel assistant positions posted-- I'll add those to my list as well. Thank you!

 

[DidiMaymaysMom]

I definitely get your struggle on getting vet hours as someone who has 0 background in science and new to the city (and country). To preface the whole thing, I just want to say that I still have 0 science background and won't even apply for another couple of years, so I can only speak about my VERY limited experience.

I'm volunteering at a super understaffed local shelter. Where I live, public shelters have limited government funding and rely more heavily on volunteer work. This means that they're more willing to train people with 0 experience in return for more help. After volunteering for a bit, I moved volunteering in the spay/neuter clinic, which counts as vet hours. I'm very fortunate in that my shelter has a fairly clear pipeline to train noobs into VA, which is what I'm on now.

But even besides that, I can connect with some of the other volunteers are in animal related fields. In my case, one of the other volunteers at the same shelter runs a wildlife rehab and has openly said that help is always welcomed. There's also a professional dog trainer in the volunteer group that I suspect has some connection with vets/clinics.

I always imagine this process like catching an elevator by jamming your hand/foot in. You're putting yourself out into a very slim crack, but once you get a hand it, it'll eventually open up and you'll be able to get the rest of your body in. My crack was finding a shelter with a lot of opportunities and connections.

Before that, I volunteered for 2 years at another shelter where I was not allowed to interact with the animals until I have cleaned everything (cages, floor, dishes, laundry, etc.) so I don't really have any good advice on finding shelters with good opportunities.

Also, you mentioned that your horse's vet doesn't have any openings, do they know anyone who does? Or know anyone who knows anyone who might be able to help in any way? In my limited experience, very few vet would say "There's nothing I can do to help" if you just express to them how eager you want this opportunity. You can even craft a little speech to say to your vet so you're expressing exactly what you want to say.

Hope this helps, from one aspiring vet student to another.

 

[eptesicusfuscus]

Apologies for just seeing this! I've contacted more facilities like mentioned above and still haven't had much luck setting up any small animal experiences, but I'm slowly emailing/applying and adding more places to my "to contact" list.

I contacted my school's lab animal vet who said they would add me to the shadowing + volunteer email list, but I haven't heard anything back since then (less than a month, not too long after my original post).

My horse's vet just didn't have openings for the current time period (summer), so I planned on setting something up for the fall. I've floated the idea of making a trip to TN or MD to shadow my long-time horse vets.

A couple months ago I emailed the operations director of my local aquarium and got radio silence until a couple weeks ago. One of the animal trainers was beyond helpful and directed me to their in-house marine rescue center, offered shadowing their vet, and offered to let me watch their training sessions-- so that was a great thing to hear back from. I'll be starting shadowing and such once my summer schedule kicks in.

 

[spied5748]

Apologies for just seeing this! I've contacted more facilities like mentioned above and still haven't had much luck setting up any small animal experiences, but I'm slowly emailing/applying and adding more places to my "to contact" list.

I contacted my school's lab animal vet who said they would add me to the shadowing + volunteer email list, but I haven't heard anything back since then (less than a month, not too long after my original post).

My horse's vet just didn't have openings for the current time period (summer), so I planned on setting something up for the fall. I've floated the idea of making a trip to TN or MD to shadow my long-time horse vets.

A couple months ago I emailed the operations director of my local aquarium and got radio silence until a couple weeks ago. One of the animal trainers was beyond helpful and directed me to their in-house marine rescue center, offered shadowing their vet, and offered to let me watch their training sessions-- so that was a great thing to hear back from. I'll be starting shadowing and such once my summer schedule kicks in.

I'm guessing you're on Long Island from your posts, I work for LIU CVM and have a lot of vet connections in the area. Message me if you want to talk more, I'm sure I could set you up somewhere to get some experience this summer.