Veteran with Upward Trend Requesting Post-Bacc Advice

[thisisnotpaul]

I am working towards medical school as a nontraditional student, currently active duty Air Force until January 2023. I will be finishing my BA in Psychology by the end of this year. I expect to graduate with a cumulative GPA of 3.32 and a science GPA of ~2.7. About 7 years ago, I took courses directly out of high school and failed several that I did not drop in time during a period where I dropped almost all of my classes. I got a D in Calculus I, an F in Chemistry I, and another F in Calculus again. Other than these courses, I only have As and Bs. After several years in the military I started taking courses again with a much higher GPA. The first two semesters of courses after I started again were 3.5 and since Spring 2021 I have maintained a 4.0 each semester.

I cannot take lab classes in person due to military commitments so I have avoided taking most science classes in order to complete a post-baccalaureate program after I get out of the military in 2023. My job in the military is Air Traffic Control. By the end of this year I will have approximately 100 research hours, 240 hospice volunteer hours, and I will be completing an EMT-B course in May. From January to May my plan is to work full time as an EMT to gain some clinical experience before I start my post-bacc. Also, I plan on working on shadowing hours from now until I get out. I have already spoken with some doctors I know and think I can get at least 50 by December along with my other commitments. I would like to apply to post-baccs towards the end of this year for structured one year programs starting in Summer 2023. I am only applying to post-baccs with all medical school prerequisites, those for career changers. I also will not be working during my post-bacc, so I plan to participate in as much research as I can over that same period.

If I can complete 42 post-bacc credits with all As, the maximum I can raise my cGPA/sGPA to is a 3.54/3.33. I want to get opinions on whether or not this will be competitive for any level of MD schools assuming an average MCAT. What else I should be trying to accomplish in the meantime? Would anyone recommend a DIY post-bacc over a formal program in my situation? Any advice for my situation in any respect would be appreciated, thank you.

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[Bonne Nuit]

I am working towards medical school as a nontraditional student, currently active duty Air Force until January 2023. I will be finishing my BA in Psychology by the end of this year. I expect to graduate with a cumulative GPA of 3.32 and a science GPA of ~2.7. About 7 years ago, I took courses directly out of high school and failed several which I did not drop in a period where I dropped almost all of my classes. I got a D in Calculus I, an F in Chemistry I, and another F in Calculus again. Other than these courses, I only have As and Bs. I also dropped several other courses during this time period. After several years in the military I started taking courses again with a much higher GPA. The first two semesters of courses after I started again were 3.5 and since Spring 2021 I have maintained a 4.0 each semester.

I cannot take lab classes in person due to military commitments so I have avoided taking most science classes in order to complete a post-baccalaureate program after I get out of the military in 2023. My job in the military is Air Traffic Control. By the end of this year I will have approximately 100 research hours, 240 hospice volunteer hours, and I will be completing an EMT-B course in May. From January to May my plan is to work full time as an EMT to gain some clinical experience before I start my post-bacc. Also, I plan on working on shadowing hours from now until I get out. I have already spoken with some doctors I know and think I can get at least 50 by December along with my other commitments. I would like to apply to post-baccs towards the end of this year for structured one year programs starting in Summer 2023. I am only applying to post-baccs with all medical school prerequisites, those for career changers. I also will not be working during my post-bacc, so I plan to participate in as much research as I can over that same period.

If I can complete 42 post-bacc credits with all As, the maximum I can raise my cGPA/sGPA to is a 3.54/3.33. I want to get opinions on whether or not this will be competitive for any level of MD schools assuming an average MCAT. What else I should be trying to accomplish in the meantime? Would anyone recommend a DIY post-bacc over a formal program in my situation? Any advice for my situation in any respect would be appreciated, thank you.

Contact your undergrad from 7 years ago and see about getting a retroactive withdrawal for the failed classes. Could be worth a shot.

Getting all As in your postbac will definitely open up MD for you. Applicants with military service are highly sought after, so you will be in great shape for most MD and all DO with a solid postbac GPA and good MCAT. You can do a DIY postbac if it’s easier/cheaper/more convenient; the most important thing is just maintaining that 4.0 trend.

 

[thisisnotpaul]

Contact your undergrad from 7 years ago and see about getting a retroactive withdrawal for the failed classes. Could be worth a shot.

Getting all As in your postbac will definitely open up MD for you. Applicants with military service are highly sought after, so you will be in great shape for most MD and all DO with a solid postbac GPA and good MCAT. You can do a DIY postbac if it’s easier/cheaper/more convenient; the most important thing is just maintaining that 4.0 trend.

Thank you for the advice. I have actually attempted the retroactive withdrawal multiple times after reading the same suggestion on another thread, calling at different times over the past few months hoping to luck into an advisor willing to work with me. All have been adamant about the college not doing retroactive withdrawals, so I have given up on that avenue. I am a Texas resident currently but can reclaim my California residency if I want to when I exit the military. Do you think I stand a chance with UC medical schools if I were to move back to California? Also, what do you think are the weakest areas in my application outside of my GPA? I would like to strengthen everything as much as I can during the next two years.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

Thank you for the advice. I have actually attempted the retroactive withdrawal multiple times after reading the same suggestion on another thread, calling at different times over the past few months hoping to luck into an advisor willing to work with me. All have been adamant about the college not doing retroactive withdrawals, so I have given up on that avenue. I am a Texas resident currently but can reclaim my California residency if I want to when I exit the military. Do you think I stand a chance with UC medical schools if I were to move back to California? Also, what do you think are the weakest areas in my application outside of my GPA? I would like to strengthen everything as much as I can during the next two years.

Bummer about the withdrawal situation. Hardly a dealbreaker, though, given everything you’ve accomplished and how much you have improved since then.

The weakest part of your application is wanting to go to medical school in California, lol. Seriously though, your competitiveness for CA is entirely dependent on your MCAT. Earn a 4.0 postbac + excellent MCAT + military service and the world is your oyster. It’s hard to predict what would happen with your same application but an average MCAT because California is so competitive. Prepare to apply broadly and don’t get your heart set on California until you see your MCAT score.

From a purely numbers standpoint, maintaining your TX residency status is going to give you your best chance at a medical school acceptance. Texans are lucky because you guys have so many IS programs that heavily favor residents. You can always try to match into residency in CA after medical school.

Overall, your application seems pretty strong so far and there’s not much to nitpick about your plans. Are you counting the hospice as nonclinical volunteering hours? EMT will take care of clinical so I’m just making sure you’ve got the nonclinical hours covered.

 

[thisisnotpaul]

Bummer about the withdrawal situation. Hardly a dealbreaker, though, given everything you’ve accomplished and how much you have improved since then.

The weakest part of your application is wanting to go to medical school in California, lol. Seriously though, your competitiveness for CA is entirely dependent on your MCAT. Earn a 4.0 postbac + excellent MCAT + military service and the world is your oyster. It’s hard to predict what would happen with your same application but an average MCAT because California is so competitive. Prepare to apply broadly and don’t get your heart set on California until you see your MCAT score.

From a purely numbers standpoint, maintaining your TX residency status is going to give you your best chance at a medical school acceptance. Texans are lucky because you guys have so many IS programs that heavily favor residents. You can always try to match into residency in CA after medical school.

Overall, your application seems pretty strong so far and there’s not much to nitpick about your plans. Are you counting the hospice as nonclinical volunteering hours? EMT will take care of clinical so I’m just making sure you’ve got the nonclinical hours covered.

Great, I will keep all of that in mind. I do plan on applying very broadly and definitely adjusting my school list based on my MCAT score. I had not considered how to apply my hospice hours but that would make sense applying them to nonclinical due to the future EMT experience. I hope to get at least 600 clinical hours while working full time, but I think I can get more during the beginning of next year as long as I can find an EMT position at that time. I think my biggest worry is my research time; how many hours do you think I will need to meet at least an acceptable level in that area of my application? And thank you very much for your responses!

 

[MusicDOc124]

If your end GPAs end up as you state with all As, as mentioned a good amount of MD school, and pretty much all DO schools would likely bite. DO will be a better chance overall as they are more forgiving, love upward trends, and love military vets.

Get those clinical hours and try to do some research if able. You don't necessarily have to be on site somewhere for research. Reach out to old professors who may be doing research, or try to connect with some docs at the military hospital as there is often a good deal of research happening in the military. Don't be afraid to proposed an idea to research if you think it will be viable if there is no active research going on around you as well.

Research is less significant than some other ECs, but you're already on top of getting clinical experience, and military service goes a long way in other area - many adcoms tend to consider it "volunteering" which is years-worth of full-time volunteering comparable with people who volunteer for the Peace Corps. Relatively few and far between go from military to medicine.

I don't know the requirements off hand, but with a sub-3.0 sGPA, you may not qualify, but look into the Icahn SOM. They have a pathway for active duty military who apply prior to discharge to enter their program without an MCAT as a way to get more military into medicine. I wish I knew about the program when I was still in, but I didn't learn about it until I was in my final year of medical school already.

 

[amath03]

TX medical schools love military, but they also love high GPAs, but maybe with a good post-bac performance you’ll have a good shot in Texas. I am active air force and I applied this cycle, I had a lot of love from Texas schools. On the California side, I applied to three of the UCs, and I only received an interview at one.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

I think my biggest worry is my research time; how many hours do you think I will need to meet at least an acceptable level in that area of my application? And thank you very much for your responses!

Technically, no research hours would probably be fine. Research is one of the lower priority ECs (for most schools, excepting the research heavyweight medical schools) and people can get in with limited/no research. Most traditional students do have some research experience, whether through a required capstone/thesis project, EC research activities, or via their lab classes. That's why you'll see stats where something like 95% of matriculants have research experience, but it's not a mandatory EC in the same way that clinical activities are mandatory.

But all research adds interest to an application. If you can find a research opportunity, take it and learn all you can. Maybe a month's worth of work minimum would suffice (so at least 80 hours maybe?). Instead of focusing on hours, I think it would be most beneficial to help with a project start to finish so you can talk about all aspects of the research process in your interview. But don't stress about the research too much, and until you get your EMT hours in, clinical ECs should take priority over research.