Vaccine mandates

[vector2]

Biden announces sweeping vaccine mandates affecting millions of workers

The administration said the new mandates could affect around 100 million people, more than two-thirds of the U.S. workforce.

www.google.com

Feds will require companies with more than 100 employees to mandate vaccine or weekly testing. Enforcement mechanism is an OSHA fine of $14,000 per occurrence.

They'll also require anyone getting CMS dollars to mandate vaccination, full stop.

Wondering about the legality and possible pending court challenges coming....

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[deleted126335]

Wondering about the legality and possible pending court challenges coming....

Yuge.

 

[Southpaw]

Biden knows it’ll fall in the courts. He’s trying to send a message as every physician in the country save for a few whackos on this forum and in other dark corners of America is telling everyone that vaccination will help us out of the ****hole we’ve put ourselves in.

 

[chessknt]

I love how the rnc was so quick to take up the case for covid 19. They really seem to love all microscopic forms of life.

 

[dannyboy1]

It’s truly absurd how many people won’t do the simple act of getting a vaccine. I’m a die hard republican but this stupid abortion thing and being pro COVID (no other way to put it) will cost us in the mid-terms…

 

[Guillemot]

It’s truly absurd how many people won’t do the simple act of getting a vaccine. I’m a die hard republican but this stupid abortion thing and being pro COVID (no other way to put it) will cost us in the mid-terms…

 

[CHARLESTONMMM]

Will there be a federal flu vaccine mandate next? What about a ban on tobacco, alcohol, opioids, and sugar if the government wants to protect people from disease?

 

[chessknt]

Will there be a federal flu vaccine mandate next? What about a ban on tobacco, alcohol, opioids, and sugar if the government wants to protect people from disease?

Nice pearl clutching. Mind if I try? How can the feds mandate an income tax? What’s next they take all my money and we are socialists??! How can the government ban missile launchers? What’s next they are going to take my 22 hunting rifle I need to feed my family rabbits??! How will I stop tyranny1!!

Did the flu shut down society and fill up hospitals and shut down the healthcare system? Does smoking or drinking put all of society at risk from the implosion of functional healthcare?

 

[Guillemot]

Will there be a federal flu vaccine mandate next? What about a ban on tobacco, alcohol, opioids, and sugar if the government wants to protect people from disease?

Slippery slope - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[gasdoc77]

Will there be a federal flu vaccine mandate next? What about a ban on tobacco, alcohol, opioids, and sugar if the government wants to protect people from disease?

Even better, the obese adults wanting all kids to get shots ASAP and wear masks in class to protect their own health...as they go to the nearest drive through. The degree of ignorance and self absorption is straight out of Jerry Springer.

 

[vector2]

Biden knows it’ll fall in the courts. He’s trying to send a message as every physician in the country save for a few whackos on this forum and in other dark corners of America are telling everyone that vaccination will help us out of the ****hole we’ve put ourselves in.

Predictably, Noem, Kemp, Ducey, DeSantis, and Abbott have come out strongly against the mandate and are threatening lawsuits on the grounds of overreach.

And that's especially rich coming from Abbott who simultaneously thinks it's OK to legislate the ability for some random jerkoff citizen to sue an uber driver for $10,000 if he suspects the guy is driving a lady to an abortion clinic.

 

[D P356]

this is nothing more than sending a message.
with places already having a hard time staffing, if you force everyone in healthcare to get the vaccine, you will see an even more difficult time staffing hospitals.

 

[vector2]

this is nothing more than sending a message.
with places already having a hard time staffing, if you force everyone in healthcare to get the vaccine, you will see an even more difficult time staffing hospitals.

There will be a little bit of attrition, sure, but the staffing issue really only gets significantly exacerbated when hospital systems locally and nationwide are inconsistently enforcing vaccine mandates. In those situations, people can just pack up and move to some COVID friendly hospital which causes regional shortages. However, if to work in any healthcare facility in the US one needs to be vaccinated, most anti-vax employees are just going to suck it up and continue working at their current institution.

 

[thinkorswim]

This is all politics. The GOP governors threatening lawsuits are probably breathing a huge sigh of relief at this mandate. Though they won’t ever admit it, they’re all probably vaccinated themselves and wished more of their constituents would do the same. Now they can put out their frivolous lawsuits to save face with their MAGA base. No one wants to see their healthcare and economy ravaged the way some of these states are suffering, and these governors will do anything to be re-elected.

 

[T-burglar]

America is a failed state and failed society

it is reaching the age of the historical average lifespan of an empire . Right on time , history repeats itself

 

[aafisahar]

America is a failed state and failed society

it is reaching the age of the historical average lifespan of an empire . Right on time , history repeats itself

Yep, we are Rome in 350 AD. The fall is right around the corner but enough people are rich and fat enough that no one sees it coming. In hindsight, it looks obvious. In the moment, not so much. That's exactly where we are.

 

[sevoflurane]

lol… failed?
Sounds extreme.
You ever lived in a failed society?
I have. No comparison.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Will there be a federal flu vaccine mandate next? What about a ban on tobacco, alcohol, opioids, and sugar if the government wants to protect people from disease?

Is your consumption of sugar posing a danger to me or to others in society?

lol… failed?
Sounds extreme.
You ever lived in a failed society?
I have. No comparison.

you from mother russia, comrade?

 

[aafisahar]

lol… failed?
Sounds extreme.
You ever lived in a failed society?
I have. No comparison.

I didn't say we are a failed state, we are at the precipice of being a failed state. Did the Romans in 350 think they were a failed state? Did the Soviets think they were a failed state in the '80s? Or any other empire at the cusp of their downfall? No, but the seeds are sown and historians will look back at the post 9/11 era as the beginning of the end.

Half the country can't even agree on basic facts, nevermind the multitude of looming catastrophes. We live in increasingly different worlds where your perspective never has to be challenged because of how facebook/reddit/twitter filter content that fits your viewpoint. We can't even come together to get a life saving shot for free. Just last week, as a moonlighting hospitalist, I discharged 3 patients <30 to LTACH, all trached, pegged, with all with some combination of strokes, myocarditis, COVID fibrosis, critical illness myopathy. They will pop up as a survivor in the stats, but going through a 40 day hospitalization just to live out your final months/years in an LTACH is not surviving. These people were in the prime of their life and it was ruined because of all the factors I mentioned above. Moreover, all these anti-vaxxers filling up the hospitals are causing collateral damage. I had a patient herniate and die from a treatable brain bleed because we couldn't transfer them to a hospital with neurosurgery. This story is replicated across the entire US where patients can't get the care they need because of the ongoing COVID surge. At our flagship hospital, we are at 120-140% capacity, double boarding patients in private rooms in order to accomodate the influx.

This does not bode well for the next 30-50 years in America. If we can't agree on simple, common sense solutions to these problems, we have no hopes of combating any substantial problems headed our way in the 21st century.

 

[narcotics999]

Yep, we are Rome in 350 AD. The fall is right around the corner but enough people are rich and fat enough that no one sees it coming. In hindsight, it looks obvious. In the moment, not so much. That's exactly where we are.

Where else to go? The city of Rome fell in 476 AD. 100 plus year to go. I will be long dead.

I didn't say we are a failed state, we are at the precipice of being a failed state. Did the Romans in 350 think they were a failed state? Did the Soviets think they were a failed state in the '80s? Or any other empire at the cusp of their downfall? No, but the seeds are sown and historians will look back at the post 9/11 era as the beginning of the end.

Half the country can't even agree on basic facts, nevermind the multitude of looming catastrophes. We live in increasingly different worlds where your perspective never has to be challenged because of how facebook/reddit/twitter filter content that fits your viewpoint. We can't even come together to get a life saving shot for free. Just last week, as a moonlighting hospitalist, I discharged 3 patients <30 to LTACH, all trached, pegged, with all with some combination of strokes, myocarditis, COVID fibrosis, critical illness myopathy. They will pop up as a survivor in the stats, but going through a 40 day hospitalization just to live out your final months/years in an LTACH is not surviving. These people were in the prime of their life and it was ruined because of all the factors I mentioned above. Moreover, all these anti-vaxxers filling up the hospitals are causing collateral damage. I had a patient herniate and die from a treatable brain bleed because we couldn't transfer them to a hospital with neurosurgery. This story is replicated across the entire US where patients can't get the care they need because of the ongoing COVID surge. At our flagship hospital, we are at 120-140% capacity, double boarding patients in private rooms in order to accomodate the influx.

This does not bode well for the next 30-50 years in America. If we can't agree on simple, common sense solutions to these problems, we have no hopes of combating any substantial problems headed our way in the 21st century.

Maybe survival of the fittest, both physically and mentally? Heck, Covid is helping to improve our gene pool, lol

 

[T-burglar]

The Roman Empire fell apart over a period of time. Historians will argue over the specifics and dates about how long exactly the empire lasted . But it began its decline with centralized corruption, an ineffective political system, extreme inequality and military over extension (this last point is a critical one). Saying that rome was still a functional empire until the imperial core was sacked is a poor understanding of history . If you study the collapse of civilizations , the pattern is a slow decay. Collapse is very infrequently sudden, but more a series of banal state and societal failures . Collapse isn’t even recognized usually by the citizens in the middle of it.

there has never been an eternal empire in the history of this planet . The American empire is collapsing

 

[BLADEMDA]

The Roman Empire fell apart over a period of time. Historians will argue over the specifics and dates about how long exactly the empire lasted . But it began its decline with centralized corruption, an ineffective political system, extreme inequality and military over extension (this last point is a critical one). Saying that rome was still a functional empire until the imperial core was sacked is a poor understanding of history . If you study the collapse of civilizations , the pattern is a slow decay. Collapse is very infrequently sudden, but more a series of banal state and societal failures . Collapse isn’t even recognized usually by the citizens in the middle of it.

there has never been an eternal empire in the history of this planet . The American empire is collapsing

The corruption you speak of is already here. The Socialist state with massive deficit spending doesn't work long term. The citizens can't vote themselves money from the treasury over and over and expect the government to be sustainable.

When you look at our society and structure from the view of China you can clearly see the decay in our values and our merit based system. We now promote people based on race or gender and not merit. We give benefits to those undeserving of such benefits and expect the 20% who work hard to support those who prefer free handouts.

This isn't the America our founders envisioned and so many before us worked hard to preserve, The decays is obvious and the decline clearly evident to the rest of the world.

There was a man 50 years ago who envisioned a country which valued a person based on his/her accomplishments and not the color of their skin. Unfortunately, we have never been farther away from that vision as we are today.

Even our military is a far cry from what it was just 50 years ago. From the rules of engagement to CRT the US military is more concerned with political correctness and social justice than winning wars.

The only positive thing I have to say is the entire Western World is in decay so the USA is not alone in its collapse.

 

[aafisahar]

The corruption you speak of is already here. The Socialist state with massive deficit spending doesn't work long term. The citizens can't vote themselves money from the treasury over and over and expect the government to be sustainable.

When you look at our society and structure from the view of China you can clearly see the decay in our values and our merit based system. We now promote people based on race or gender and not merit. We give benefits to those undeserving of such benefits and expect the 20% who work hard to support those who prefer free handouts.

This isn't the America our founders envisioned and so many before us worked hard to preserve, The decays is obvious and the decline clearly evident to the rest of the world.

There was a man 50 years ago who envisioned a country which valued a person based on his/her accomplishments and not the color of their skin. Unfortunately, we have never been farther away from that vision as we are today.

get out here with that garbage

 

[BLADEMDA]

get out here with that garbage

Exactly the response which proves my point. The USA is a melting pot of races, religions and cultures. What makes us great is our values based on merit not on heritage. Each person succeeds on his or her merits.

 

[chessknt]

get out here with that garbage

Seriously. Go move to North Korea where everyone works and there is a big strong military and no such thing as political correctness and the top 1% get to laugh at all the poor people.

 

[FutureInternist]

It’s truly absurd how many people won’t do the simple act of getting a vaccine. I’m a die hard republican but this stupid abortion thing and being pro COVID (no other way to put it) will cost us in the mid-terms…

Not to mention thats its the decent thing to do 🙄

 

[vector2]

I love when right-wing chuds go on a rant about socialism while simultaneously (and erroneously) trying to paint Dr. King as some kind of rugged Ayn Randian individualist.

—-

“I imagine you already know that I am much more socialistic in my economic theory than capitalistic… [Capitalism] started out with a noble and high motive… but like most human systems it fell victim to the very thing it was revolting against. So today capitalism has out-lived its usefulness.” – Letter to Coretta Scott, July 18, 1952.

“In a sense, you could say we’re involved in the class struggle.” – Quote to New York Times reporter, José Igelsias, 1968.

“And one day we must ask the question, ‘Why are there forty million poor people in America? And when you begin to ask that question, you are raising questions about the economic system, about a broader distribution of wealth.’ When you ask that question, you begin to question the capitalistic economy. And I’m simply saying that more and more, we’ve got to begin to ask questions about the whole society…” – Speech to Southern Christian Leadership Conference Atlanta, Georgia, August 16, 1967.

“Capitalism forgets that life is social. And the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism, but in a higher synthesis.” – Speech to Southern Christian Leadership Conference Atlanta, Georgia, August 16, 1967.

“Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country for all God’s children.” – Speech to the Negro American Labor Council, 1961.

“We must recognize that we can’t solve our problem now until there is a radical redistribution of economic and political power… this means a revolution of values and other things. We must see now that the evils of racism, economic exploitation and militarism are all tied together… you can’t really get rid of one without getting rid of the others… the whole structure of American life must be changed. America is a hypocritical nation and [we] must put [our] own house in order.”- Report to SCLC Staff, May 1967.

“The evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and evils of racism.” – Speech to SCLC Board, March 30, 1967.

“I am now convinced that the simplest approach will prove to be the most effective – the solution to poverty is to abolish it directly by a now widely discussed matter: the guaranteed income… The curse of poverty has no justification in our age. It is socially as cruel and blind as the practice of cannibalism at the dawn of civilization, when men ate each other because they had not yet learned to take food from the soil or to consume the abundant animal life around them. The time has come for us to civilize ourselves by the total, direct and immediate abolition of poverty.” – Where do We Go from Here?, 1967.

“You can’t talk about solving the economic problem of the Negro without talking about billions of dollars. You can’t talk about ending the slums without first saying profit must be taken out of slums. You’re really tampering and getting on dangerous ground because you are messing with folk then. You are messing with captains of industry. Now this means that we are treading in difficult water, because it really means that we are saying that something is wrong with capitalism.” – Speech to his staff, 1966.

“[W]e are saying that something is wrong … with capitalism…. There must be better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism.” – Speech to his staff, 1966.

“If America does not use her vast resources of wealth to end poverty and make it possible for all of God’s children to have the basic necessities of life, she too will go to hell.” – Speech at Bishop Charles Mason Temple of the Church of God in Christ in support of the Memphis sanitation workers’ strike on March 18th, 1968, two weeks before he was assassinated.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Druckenmiller Says Dollar Will Lose Reserve Currency Status

One of the great macro-traders of all time, Stan Druckenmiller, wrote an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal yesterday. When he shares his views, it's often a good idea to pay attention.

www.forbes.com

The thing that will ultimately collapse the USA will be the massive debt with loss of reserve currency status. The decline in living standards to the poor and middle class will be substantial when the US Dollar is no longer the reserve currency. When will that happen? 20 years? 30 years? It all depends on our current trajectory of massive government deficit spending which seems to be on path to reach record levels.

 

[FutureInternist]

I love when right-wing chuds go on a rant about socialism while simultaneously (and erroneously) trying to paint Dr. King as some kind of rugged Ayn Randian individualist.

—-

“I imagine you already know that I am much more socialistic in my economic theory than capitalistic… [Capitalism] started out with a noble and high motive… but like most human systems it fell victim to the very thing it was revolting against. So today capitalism has out-lived its usefulness.” – Letter to Coretta Scott, July 18, 1952.

“In a sense, you could say we’re involved in the class struggle.” – Quote to New York Times reporter, José Igelsias, 1968.

“And one day we must ask the question, ‘Why are there forty million poor people in America? And when you begin to ask that question, you are raising questions about the economic system, about a broader distribution of wealth.’ When you ask that question, you begin to question the capitalistic economy. And I’m simply saying that more and more, we’ve got to begin to ask questions about the whole society…” – Speech to Southern Christian Leadership Conference Atlanta, Georgia, August 16, 1967.

“Capitalism forgets that life is social. And the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism, but in a higher synthesis.” – Speech to Southern Christian Leadership Conference Atlanta, Georgia, August 16, 1967.

“Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country for all God’s children.” – Speech to the Negro American Labor Council, 1961.

“We must recognize that we can’t solve our problem now until there is a radical redistribution of economic and political power… this means a revolution of values and other things. We must see now that the evils of racism, economic exploitation and militarism are all tied together… you can’t really get rid of one without getting rid of the others… the whole structure of American life must be changed. America is a hypocritical nation and [we] must put [our] own house in order.”- Report to SCLC Staff, May 1967.

“The evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and evils of racism.” – Speech to SCLC Board, March 30, 1967.

“I am now convinced that the simplest approach will prove to be the most effective – the solution to poverty is to abolish it directly by a now widely discussed matter: the guaranteed income… The curse of poverty has no justification in our age. It is socially as cruel and blind as the practice of cannibalism at the dawn of civilization, when men ate each other because they had not yet learned to take food from the soil or to consume the abundant animal life around them. The time has come for us to civilize ourselves by the total, direct and immediate abolition of poverty.” – Where do We Go from Here?, 1967.

“You can’t talk about solving the economic problem of the Negro without talking about billions of dollars. You can’t talk about ending the slums without first saying profit must be taken out of slums. You’re really tampering and getting on dangerous ground because you are messing with folk then. You are messing with captains of industry. Now this means that we are treading in difficult water, because it really means that we are saying that something is wrong with capitalism.” – Speech to his staff, 1966.

“[W]e are saying that something is wrong … with capitalism…. There must be better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism.” – Speech to his staff, 1966.

“If America does not use her vast resources of wealth to end poverty and make it possible for all of God’s children to have the basic necessities of life, she too will go to hell.” – Speech at Bishop Charles Mason Temple of the Church of God in Christ in support of the Memphis sanitation workers’ strike on March 18th, 1968, two weeks before he was assassinated.

Not to mention that most R states depend waaayyyy more on federal aid than D ones.
If we could do an experiment where for 2 years, no R states got any federal aid, we could really see how they are set up to fail due to their “leadership”.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I love when right-wing chuds go on a rant about socialism while simultaneously (and erroneously) trying to paint Dr. King as some kind of rugged Ayn Randian individualist.

—-

“I imagine you already know that I am much more socialistic in my economic theory than capitalistic… [Capitalism] started out with a noble and high motive… but like most human systems it fell victim to the very thing it was revolting against. So today capitalism has out-lived its usefulness.” – Letter to Coretta Scott, July 18, 1952.

“In a sense, you could say we’re involved in the class struggle.” – Quote to New York Times reporter, José Igelsias, 1968.

“And one day we must ask the question, ‘Why are there forty million poor people in America? And when you begin to ask that question, you are raising questions about the economic system, about a broader distribution of wealth.’ When you ask that question, you begin to question the capitalistic economy. And I’m simply saying that more and more, we’ve got to begin to ask questions about the whole society…” – Speech to Southern Christian Leadership Conference Atlanta, Georgia, August 16, 1967.

“Capitalism forgets that life is social. And the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism, but in a higher synthesis.” – Speech to Southern Christian Leadership Conference Atlanta, Georgia, August 16, 1967.

“Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country for all God’s children.” – Speech to the Negro American Labor Council, 1961.

“We must recognize that we can’t solve our problem now until there is a radical redistribution of economic and political power… this means a revolution of values and other things. We must see now that the evils of racism, economic exploitation and militarism are all tied together… you can’t really get rid of one without getting rid of the others… the whole structure of American life must be changed. America is a hypocritical nation and [we] must put [our] own house in order.”- Report to SCLC Staff, May 1967.

“The evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and evils of racism.” – Speech to SCLC Board, March 30, 1967.

“I am now convinced that the simplest approach will prove to be the most effective – the solution to poverty is to abolish it directly by a now widely discussed matter: the guaranteed income… The curse of poverty has no justification in our age. It is socially as cruel and blind as the practice of cannibalism at the dawn of civilization, when men ate each other because they had not yet learned to take food from the soil or to consume the abundant animal life around them. The time has come for us to civilize ourselves by the total, direct and immediate abolition of poverty.” – Where do We Go from Here?, 1967.

“You can’t talk about solving the economic problem of the Negro without talking about billions of dollars. You can’t talk about ending the slums without first saying profit must be taken out of slums. You’re really tampering and getting on dangerous ground because you are messing with folk then. You are messing with captains of industry. Now this means that we are treading in difficult water, because it really means that we are saying that something is wrong with capitalism.” – Speech to his staff, 1966.

“[W]e are saying that something is wrong … with capitalism…. There must be better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism.” – Speech to his staff, 1966.

“If America does not use her vast resources of wealth to end poverty and make it possible for all of God’s children to have the basic necessities of life, she too will go to hell.” – Speech at Bishop Charles Mason Temple of the Church of God in Christ in support of the Memphis sanitation workers’ strike on March 18th, 1968, two weeks before he was assassinated.

My post was in regard to how we as a nation reward individuals based on their own merit as a person not members of a class or race. That one thing defines us as a meritocracy where the best and brightest succeed as individuals not because of race or gender.

Socialism without regards to spending or budgets is pure madness and fiscal insanity. That is where we are today.

 

[BLADEMDA]

The Socialists don't seem to understand the limits of spending. Socialism always fails because it runs out of money.

 

[FutureInternist]

Will there be a federal flu vaccine mandate next? What about a ban on tobacco, alcohol, opioids, and sugar if the government wants to protect people from disease?

Maybe…. But guess what, the government already mandates many vaccines.

Whether its for kids to go to school, for people to go into the army, for travel to certain places.

Alcohol - There is a “ban” as in the amount that makes one a danger to others.

Tobacco - Good luck trying to find a public place where it is allowed.

 

[FutureInternist]

The Socialists don't seem to understand the limits of spending. Socialism always fails because it runs out of money.

View attachment 343273

Agree… so tax the mega rich, the corporations, the offshore companies etc to invest in infrastructure, education etc and the ROI (as with many things the government does) will be Yuge

 

[BLADEMDA]

Hyperinflation hits​

Faced with mounting costs and a dearth of new sources of wealth, Rome responded by hiking up taxes on its citizens and devaluing the currency. One denarius previously held roughly 4.5 grams of real silver. Roman officials – who controlled the minting of coins – slowly began adding impurities to improve government liquidity. More and more coins entered circulation, each time becoming less pure.

To put this in perspective, under the reign of Augustus (27 BC – 14 AD) the denarius was about 95% silver, but by 265 AD this was down to 0.5%. Rome’s silver coinage had become almost worthless.

Price controls​

Hyperinflation was crippling the economy. Emperor Diocletian came to power in 284 AD, and attempted to curb the freefall. He introduced price controls in 301 AD, but this only drove consumers to the black market. He also introduced a new silver coin called the argenteus, with one coin equal to 50 of the old denarii. But within a decade one argenteus would be worth 100 denarii. Despite Diocletian’s best efforts, Rome’s toxic inflationary cycle continued.

The fall​

Diocletian’s successors were equally ineffective in tackling the Empire’s fiscal problems. Taxes and prices continued to increase, affecting the middle classes and poor the worst as wealth became increasingly concentrated in the coffers of an elite. Parallels with today are not difficult to draw! Mob riots followed, as did mutinies when the government couldn’t pay the troops.

The long-term decline of Rome cannot be pinned to any one cause. Political instability and military failures against invading Germanic tribes ultimately sealed the Empire’s fate, however these events took place against the backdrop of a long-term economic decline with inflation and inequality at its core.

 

[vector2]

My post was in regard to how we as a nation reward individuals based on their own merit as a person not members of a class or race. That one thing defines us as a meritocracy where the best and brightest succeed as individuals not because of race or gender.

Socialism without regards to spending or budgets is pure madness and fiscal insanity. That is where we are today.

The notion that everyone in America who’s rich and successful got that way based purely on merit is a right-wing pipe dream that has never been true and never will be.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Agree… so tax the mega rich, the corporations, the offshore companies etc to invest in infrastructure, education etc and the ROI (as with many things the government does) will be Yuge

The taxes need to be raised just to pay for current entitlements and programs. Responsible government would be taking in enough money to pay for those promises already made to its citizens. By creating more social programs and entitlements the decline of the USA becomes almost inevitable as the cycle of debt, spending and more public assistance leads to inflation with the decline in the purchasing power of the US Dollar.

While you may not pay the price for this massive socialism your children will.

 

[BLADEMDA]

The notion that everyone in America who’s rich and successful got that way based purely on merit is a right-wing pipe dream that has never been true and never will be.

We never achieved true meritocracy but that is a goal worthy to continue to strive for. Because we fail to achieve something in our lifetime or even over 200 hundred years doesn't mean we abandon the principle. Once we turn our backs on the concept of fairness and promotion based on each individual's merit by valuing race/gender we turn the clock back not forward in our desire to form a more perfect union.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I do not want to derail this thread by arguing with the loudest Socialist on SDN. Rather, I just want to point out that most Americans want to embrace the idea of merit and fairness in our society. When we openly disregard the perception of fairness and individual merit for a race/gender based society that doesn't align with the values of most Americans:

 

[vector2]

We never achieved true meritocracy but that is a goal worthy to continue to strive for. Because we fail to achieve something in our lifetime or even over 200 hundred years doesn't mean we abandon the principle. Once we turn our backs on the concept of fairness and promotion based on each individual's merit by valuing race/gender we turn the clock back not forward in our desire to form a more perfect union.

Your depiction of what you think the other side thinks about fairness and meritocracy is a tiresome strawman.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Agree… so tax the mega rich, the corporations, the offshore companies etc to invest in infrastructure, education etc and the ROI (as with many things the government does) will be Yuge

Our government is broke. We must borrow money to pay our current budget. Those tax increases you want are needed for the current entitlements not new ones. The idea the USA can create new entitlement programs on a massive scale without first funding current entitlements is pure madness. This type of reckless spending leads to inflation and the collapse of the currency over time. Because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't happen in 20-30 years and by then it will be too late. Manchin knowns we can't afford that level of spending, 3.5 trillion, so he will likely pare it back to 2 trillion in order to sleep at night. This doesn't change the ultimate trajectory of financial insanity but may lengthen the time of the collapse of the dollar.

Ultimately, the US govt. will have to inflate its way out of the 40-50 trillion dollar debt because it won't be able to repay the interest on the debt any other way.

 

[ocopa]

Predictably, Noem, Kemp, Ducey, DeSantis, and Abbott have come out strongly against the mandate and are threatening lawsuits on the grounds of overreach.

The Red State Rebellion Against The Vaccine Mandate​

South Dakota Governor Krist Noem tweeted twice: “South Dakota will stand up to defend freedom. See you in court, Joe Biden.”

Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp:

“I will pursue every legal option available to the state of Georgia to stop this blatantly unlawful overreach by the Biden administration.”

Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey tweeted he would “push back”:

“This is exactly the kind of big government overreach we have tried so hard to prevent in Arizona—now the Biden-Harris administration is hammering down on private businesses and individual freedoms in an unprecedented and dangerous way. This will never stand up in court.”

“This dictatorial approach is wrong, un-American and will do far more harm than good. How many workers will be displaced? How many kids kept out of classrooms? How many businesses fined? The vaccine is and should be a choice. We must and will push back.”

Florida Gov. DeSantis: "I would just say generally when you’re taking action that’s unconstitutional, that threatens the jobs of the people in my state — many, many thousands of jobs — I’m standing for them,” DeSantis said, vowing to “protect their jobs against federal overreach.”

Texas Gov. Abbott tweeted:

“Biden’s vaccine mandate is an assault on private businesses. I issued an Executive Order protecting Texans’ right to choose whether they get the COVID vaccine & added it to the special session agenda. Texas is already working to halt this power grab.”

 

[BLADEMDA]

Your depiction of what you think the other side thinks about fairness and meritocracy is a tiresome strawman.

I actually understand your arguments about "opportunity" and "fairness" I just disagree with them. I'd rather not continue to argue about this subject as we will never agree on it. Even your premise about fairness is wrong as far as I am concerned. Prior to the woke mob mentality and cancel culture of the past few years my sentiment towards the left's view of fairness was much more favorable. No longer.

 

[BLADEMDA]

The Red State Rebellion Against The Vaccine Mandate​

In Florida, 13,983,394 people or 65.11% of the population have received at least one dose.


Overall, 11,736,562 people or 54.65% of Florida's population have been fully vaccinated.

 

[ocopa]

BLADEMDA said:
In Florida, 13,983,394 people or 65.11% of the population have received at least one dose.


So 34.89% of the Florida population has decided not to get vaccinated. Should they be coerced into taking the Shot?

The Nuremberg Code (1947)​

The great weight of the evidence before us to effect that certain types of medical experiments on human beings, when kept within reasonably well-defined bounds, conform to the ethics of the medical profession generally. The protagonists of the practice of human experimentation justify their views on the basis that such experiments yield results for the good of society that are unprocurable by other methods or means of study. All agree, however, that certain basic principles must be observed in order to satisfy moral, ethical and legal concepts:

1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment.
   
   The duty and responsibility for ascertaining the quality of the consent rests upon each individual who initiates, directs, or engages in the experiment. It is a personal duty and responsibility which may not be delegated to another with impunity.
2. The experiment should be such as to yield fruitful results for the good of society, unprocurable by other methods or means of study, and not random and unnecessary in nature.
3. The experiment should be so designed and based on the results of animal experimentation and a knowledge of the natural history of the disease or other problem under study that the anticipated results justify the performance of the experiment.
4. The experiment should be so conducted as to avoid all unnecessary physical and mental suffering and injury.
5. No experiment should be conducted where there is an a priori reason to believe that death or disabling injury will occur; except, perhaps, in those experiments where the experimental physicians also serve as subjects.
6. The degree of risk to be taken should never exceed that determined by the humanitarian importance of the problem to be solved by the experiment.
7. Proper preparations should be made and adequate facilities provided to protect the experimental subject against even remote possibilities of injury, disability or death.
8. The experiment should be conducted only by scientifically qualified persons. The highest degree of skill and care should be required through all stages of the experiment of those who conduct or engage in the experiment.
9. During the course of the experiment the human subject should be at liberty to bring the experiment to an end if he has reached the physical or mental state where continuation of the experiment seems to him to be impossible.
10. During the course of the experiment the scientist in charge must be prepared to terminate the experiment at any stage, if he has probable cause to believe, in the exercise of the good faith, superior skill and careful judgment required of him, that a continuation of the experiment is likely to result in injury, disability, or death to the experimental subject.

 

[vector2]

I actually understand your arguments about "opportunity" and "fairness" I just disagree with them. I'd rather not continue to argue about this subject as we will never agree on it. Even your premise about fairness is wrong as far as I am concerned. Prior to the woke mob mentality and cancel culture of the past few years my sentiment towards the left's view of fairness was much more favorable. No longer.

All evidence points to the fact that you don’t understand the other side’s arguments, or the complexity of the issue as a whole, because you constantly throw out stereotypes implying that every liberal wants to take away jobs from a qualified white man to give them to a less qualified POC or a woman.

 

[nimbus]

The notion that everyone in America who’s rich and successful got that way based purely on merit is a right-wing pipe dream that has never been true and never will be.

The Role of Luck in Life Success Is Far Greater Than We Realized

Are the most successful people in society just the luckiest people?

blogs.scientificamerican.com

Why Luck Matters—Much More Than You Think

The luckiest people overlook their good fortune.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[vector2]

BLADEMDA said:
In Florida, 13,983,394 people or 65.11% of the population have received at least one dose.


So 34.89% of the Florida population has decided not to get vaccinated. Should they be coerced into taking the Shot?

The Nuremberg Code (1947)​

The great weight of the evidence before us to effect that certain types of medical experiments on human beings, when kept within reasonably well-defined bounds, conform to the ethics of the medical profession generally. The protagonists of the practice of human experimentation justify their views on the basis that such experiments yield results for the good of society that are unprocurable by other methods or means of study. All agree, however, that certain basic principles must be observed in order to satisfy moral, ethical and legal concepts:

1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment.
   
   The duty and responsibility for ascertaining the quality of the consent rests upon each individual who initiates, directs, or engages in the experiment. It is a personal duty and responsibility which may not be delegated to another with impunity.
2. The experiment should be such as to yield fruitful results for the good of society, unprocurable by other methods or means of study, and not random and unnecessary in nature.
3. The experiment should be so designed and based on the results of animal experimentation and a knowledge of the natural history of the disease or other problem under study that the anticipated results justify the performance of the experiment.
4. The experiment should be so conducted as to avoid all unnecessary physical and mental suffering and injury.
5. No experiment should be conducted where there is an a priori reason to believe that death or disabling injury will occur; except, perhaps, in those experiments where the experimental physicians also serve as subjects.
6. The degree of risk to be taken should never exceed that determined by the humanitarian importance of the problem to be solved by the experiment.
7. Proper preparations should be made and adequate facilities provided to protect the experimental subject against even remote possibilities of injury, disability or death.
8. The experiment should be conducted only by scientifically qualified persons. The highest degree of skill and care should be required through all stages of the experiment of those who conduct or engage in the experiment.
9. During the course of the experiment the human subject should be at liberty to bring the experiment to an end if he has reached the physical or mental state where continuation of the experiment seems to him to be impossible.
10. During the course of the experiment the scientist in charge must be prepared to terminate the experiment at any stage, if he has probable cause to believe, in the exercise of the good faith, superior skill and careful judgment required of him, that a continuation of the experiment is likely to result in injury, disability, or death to the experimental subject.

Lmao, is this the new schtick from the idiotic “muh freedums” crowd? Comparing vaccine mandates to the Holocaust? Gtfo you troll.

 

[narcotics999]

Druckenmiller Says Dollar Will Lose Reserve Currency Status

One of the great macro-traders of all time, Stan Druckenmiller, wrote an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal yesterday. When he shares his views, it's often a good idea to pay attention.

www.forbes.com

The thing that will ultimately collapse the USA will be the massive debt with loss of reserve currency status. The decline in living standards to the poor and middle class will be substantial when the US Dollar is no longer the reserve currency. When will that happen? 20 years? 30 years? It all depends on our current trajectory of massive government deficit spending which seems to be on path to reach record levels.

OK, assume USA would collapse in 30 years and $ worth little, what should we do NOW?
1) make more $?
2) buy gold, bitcoins, stocks?
3) buy property?
4) buy land and learn to grow food?
5) have more children, brain wash them with old traditions and hopefully they will take care of us?
6) teach kids hard science and marketable skills so that they can get real jobs and make dough?
7) get property in another country? which one?
8)......

 

[ocopa]

OK, assume USA would collapse in 30 years and $ worth little, what should we do NOW?
1) make more $?
2) buy gold, bitcoins, stocks?
3) buy property?
4) buy land and learn to grow food?
5) have more children, brain wash them with old traditions and hopefully they will take care of us?
6) teach kids hard science and marketable skills so that they can get real jobs and make dough?
7) get property in another country? which one?
8)......

30 years is optimistic.
what should we do NOW?
1) make more $? YES
2) buy gold, bitcoins, stocks? Buy Junk silver, gold if your pile of silver becomes too big.
3) buy property? YES rural
4) buy land and learn to grow food? YES on your rural property, you could rent the land to a farmer and learn from him.
5) have more children, brain wash them with old traditions and hopefully they will take care of us? Not enough time.
6) teach kids hard science and marketable skills so that they can get real jobs and make dough? Not enough time.
7) get property in another country? which one? Unknown, I thought Australia was safe, but that has changed recently. If you can no longer survive in the American redoubt. Get yourself a thirty-footer and go. Get a sailboat and sail away to a safe haven.
8) Have a marketable skill and a marketable backup skill. This being the SDN most of us have medical skills, but for the specialist, anesthesia, pathology, radiology etc. brush up on your primary care knowledge. Also cultivate a hobby like carpentry, electrical, plumbing, cooking, or mechanic, to name a few, that will be a secondary skill. Perhaps where you end up does not allow you to be licensed to practice or there is no full-time medical work.

 

[deleted126335]

30 years is optimistic.
what should we do NOW?
1) make more $? YES
2) buy gold, bitcoins, stocks? Buy Junk silver, gold if your pile of silver becomes too big.
3) buy property? YES rural
4) buy land and learn to grow food? YES on your rural property, you could rent the land to a farmer and learn from him.
5) have more children, brain wash them with old traditions and hopefully they will take care of us? Not enough time.
6) teach kids hard science and marketable skills so that they can get real jobs and make dough? Not enough time.
7) get property in another country? which one? Unknown, I thought Australia was safe, but that has changed recently. If you can no longer survive in the American redoubt. Get yourself a thirty-footer and go. Get a sailboat and sail away to a safe haven.
8) Have a marketable skill and a marketable backup skill. This being the SDN most of us have medical skills, but for the specialist, anesthesia, pathology, radiology etc. brush up on your primary care knowledge. Also cultivate a hobby like carpentry, electrical, plumbing, cooking, or mechanic, to name a few, that will be a secondary skill. Perhaps where you end up does not allow you to be licensed to practice or there is no full-time medical work.

Party like it’s 1999. Stop working. Spend and consume as much as possible. Eat badly, drink heavily, lots of sex and drugs. Duh.