VA now taking ABPP in lieu of APA accredited internship

[boomshakalaka]

Boom, your comment about voir dire implied you were talking about forensic circumstances. PSYDR responded to your comment in relation to forensic circumstances. It seems that this argument has become willfully obtuse at this point, not too mention far afield of the original questions asked.

Ah, fair enough. Lots of good basketball on today, anyway.

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[PsyDr]

I think a lot of the problem with booms ideas are that they are based off of who someone is, rather than the ideas presented. Whether it be that someone is boarded and therefore their ideas are not subject to questioning, or if I am a clown and therefore my ideas have no merit regardless of the content. Both science and the law recognize the logical fallacy of arguments from authority and arguments ad hominem which is why neither tradition allow the "cause I said so" or the "that guy is a dumb dumb, don't listen to him". There is structure to how these traditions make use of logical debate. There is specific meaning behind some words like "incompetence". There is also decorum afforded to all in both traditions and methods of remediation for those that do not abide by these rules. In some arenas of forensics, there is no structure for verbal testimony (e.g., ssdi, va work, some states workers come, etc). To assume equivalence is another error of logic.

 

[bmedclinic]

Choosing to complete a non-APA internship is just that - a choice that is fully informed and is made volitionally and voluntarily. That choice does not make a person a victim nor does it render you a member of an oppressed group. It is in no way comparable to experiencing a lifetime of pervasive cultural and societal messages to women that they are inherently less capable at math because of a fundamental aspect of their identity. I like your posts, bmedclinic, but that comparison really rubbed me the wrong way.

Sorry it rubbed you the wrong way. I got my jimmies more rustled by one post than I can remember, in a long long time.
To be fair, I meant the generalization was as bad in terms of "how bad of a generalization can you possibly make here" rather than saying they're apples to apples. In no way do I see myself as part of any oppressed group; I know I'm not. At the same time, I'm not too keen on someone who is likely a psych student and not been through that process (I went through the match process twice and obviously did very poor, for reasons both within and outside of my control) directly inferring that I'm not qualified. I went to an APA program, and I'd argue that I'm the most successful person from my cohort (depending on how you quantify success). That student I was replying to above got honestly the nicest reply I could muster, and it was way more polite than go _____ yourself, which was my initial thought.

 

[researchgirl]

Is that true even for non neuro/rehab folks though?

I would argue just the opposite. Almost no AMCs require or expect boarding. There may be a culture of it among neuro, but I have literally seen only a small handful of boarded folks in other areas. This is across what is now the 5-6 AMCs I've had contact wth (including some of the "biggies"). I'm going through the licensing/credentialing process at my current one and boarding has never even been mentioned as something we should look into. Most seem only dimly aware that is even possible for non-neuro folks.

I'll do it if made to at some point. For now, my efforts are likely better spent writing grants/papers.

This seems to vary quite a bit. I know of at least 3 major AMCs that have explicitly stated that boarding would be expected of new faculty hires. My understanding is that in cultures at some AMCs, boarding is seen akin to medical boards, AKA without it you aren't truly certified as an expert, and you aren't viewed to be as valuable/knowledgeable as someone who has been boarded.

Also, @erg923 - someone may have said this already - but some VAs (I know of 2 for sure) will give step increases for boarding, and the last time I looked into it, the cost of getting boarded paid for itself within 2 years ($ cost only, not taking into account the time and hassle).

That being said, it's still not high on my to do list, and I remain skeptical of its benefits (as someone who is not a neuropsychologist).

 

[bmedclinic]

Honestly? Probably none. I'm not knocking the quality of student that attains an unaccredited internship (okay, maybe I am), but how many students that obtain an unaccredited internship are going have the skills/wherewithal to pursue ABPP? I know I'm making a sweeping generalization, but I can't be that far off-base.

As I mentioned above, I was pretty rustled by this terrible post.
I think the poster here is incredibly far off base, and I think this board tends to make the same mistake. And hey, maybe I am the outlier. But I think this is a fallacy people tell themselves to make it easier. The single dumbest psychologist I ever met went to a FSPS that was somehow APA accredited (its now shut down), had an APA accredited internship and can barely complete a coherent sentence IMO. I shared an office with her for about 4 months, so I heard a lot of her attempts at communication. At one point, she asked me if -0.3 or 0.3 was bigger. Both APA checkmarks. Now maybe you're thinking she's an excellent psychologist that just cant do math. I'd put that to rest, but I cant manage to type out any of her incoherent ramblings. One of the new partners of my group practice went to one of the Argrosy's. I dont know her internship, but I know her postdoc training- let's just say her on paper training would be mocked on this board. She's competent, knowledgeable and the near opposite of the person above. Are all three of us outliers, or is the general rule nothing more than a fallacy we all cling to?
Since I've been out of school, I've come across pretty stinking brilliant/competent psychologists that had all varieties of training. I am a fan of research and admit my wariness when it comes to psychologists without thorough research training, but I have to say I've come across excellent psychologists with no APA program/APA internship and ones who are TERRIBLE with all the right "on paper" qualifications.

So, do I have the skills/wherewithal to pursue ABPP?
Maybe @boomshakalaka can look at my vitae and let me know. #jokes Or maybe its something where one cant make assumptions in real life and act like it'll be accurate, essentially doing what VA policy does and pretending it "ensures" quality training. The VA can do whatever they want to do and call it whatever they want. Not my problem. But I think for us on here, as informed psychologists, it's dangerous to pretend that policy level decisions are necessarily accurate or reflect reality.