US to Canada

[shs]

1. For Non-US/Non-Canadian medical school graduates with residency and subspecialty fellowship training in the US....as long as the duration of training is equivalent to or longer than in Canada.....can one practice in Canada after American training?

2. Those familiar with both systems....do you know the difference in Interventional Cardiology compensation (both soon after starting and mid-career) between the US and Canada?

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[f_w]

Why would you want to do that ?

Interventional cards is after CT surg and neurosurg the top earning specialty in the US. Except for a J1 situation, what would motivate you to go up north ?

Check this out. Cardiologists continue to be the specialty 'most difficult to fill' for' commercial recruiters !

http://www.phg.com/article_p008.htm

 

[shs]

Thanks for the link - haven't read it yet but seems very interesting.

Undoubtedly, south of the border pays more, particularly in specialties like Int Cards....but how much of a pay cut does one take moving north of the border?

The thought of living in Vancouver or Toronto seems very attractive.....

As a side note....CT Surg is no longer making the money that it used to....as a matter of fact, CT Surgeons just entering the job market are having a hard time finding jobs - some are being forced into settling for Thoracic (vs CT) Surgery, in large part to the surge in Int Cards. As you know, percutaneous techniques are being applied to carotids....some centers are even starting to enter congenital and valvular heart disease, not to mention the ever increasing indications for coronary revascularization.....

 

[cure4cancer]

Stay in the south if you want the money for sure.
But since it seems like you don't really care about the money issue,
I think after you've completed your American residency coming back to Canada shouldn't be too hard..

Once your here though the pay is quite a bit less than the American Doctor.
The taxes here are KILLER!
If your single they take like.. 60% of your earnings away or something (if you gross over $100,000/yr) .. and I also heard something like, doctors that manage to gross over 1,000,000 (*not sure if my source is reliable on this one) will only be allowed to take a maximum of 300,000 home / year.

But other than the taxes, Canada is a great place to live especially in Vancouver/Toronto.. I'm in Vancouver right now and all I can say is that, of all the places I've ever been to in the states or in Europe/Asia Theres no other place I'd rather be.

 

[johnny_blaze]

Coming back to Canada as a Non-US/Non-Canadian medical school graduate may be difficult even if you complete your residency in the states, based on my research and advice I’ve received on the SDN.
Ontario is quite tricky as medical licensing is a bit different from the rest of Canada. If you visit http://www.oimgc.utoronto.ca/ you can get the details. You can apply for the practice ready stream after your residency (this may be easier to get as your post graduate training will be done in the US). However, the big catch is that you might have to do a 5-year rural commitment. Ouch!
I think it would probably be better doing your residency in Canada if you want to practice in Toronto. I’m not sure if you can just go and work in Ontario after doing a residency in say Alberta. I’m in the same boat as you because I want to practice in Toronto but I don’t really know if I can get a residency in Canada. I may have to go down south… but this doesn’t seem too bad, I can still work in NY or Michigan, earn good $, and only be a couple of hours away from Toronto.

Once your here though the pay is quite a bit less than the American Doctor.
The taxes here are KILLER!
If your single they take like.. 60% of your earnings away or something (if you gross over $100,000/yr) .. and I also heard something like, doctors that manage to gross over 1,000,000 (*not sure if my source is reliable on this one) will only be allowed to take a maximum of 300,000 home / year..

I’ve heard about this too. I cant remember exactly what the cut off is but after you start earning more than a certain figure they only let you keep around 25% of what you earn after that. boooo

But other than the taxes, Canada is a great place to live especially in Vancouver/Toronto.. I'm in Vancouver right now and all I can say is that, of all the places I've ever been to in the states or in Europe/Asia Theres no other place I'd rather be.

Tru dat! Toronto rocks! (aint been to vancouver)

 

[f_w]

Well, I guess you are really motivated.

Forget about Toronto. The CPSO (medical licensing board in ontario) is certifiably nuts. They will require you to do a year of 'remedial training' to learn the 'ontarian way' of practicing medicine which apparently is entirely different from the rest of the world (including the other canadian provinces). The OIMGC website is a place where you can frustrate yourself. But I don't think that you would be in the same situation. Many of the folks driving taxis in Toronto have finished their medical training a long time ago in a far away place, this would be somewhat different from finishing an ACGME residency/fellowship.
(Somebody mentioned the 'registration by practice assessment' pathway for Ontario. The 'minister of health and long term care' announced this program a couple of years ago with great fanfare. But if you get into the implementation rules written by CPSO, it becomes clear that they didn't actually intend to attract anyone.)

As for Vancouver. I have looked into going there as an interventional radiologist ) I don't know how it is in cards, but my sources in BC radiology tell me that things there are very 'cliquei' and that the market is pretty well saturated. Haven't been to the place yet, but it indeed sounds like a vary attractive place to live.

If you go anywhere BUT Toronto and Vancouver, there are probably opportunities. I have talked to some folks who went to Saskatoon after a US residency. The licensing board in Saskatchewan is a bit more open to US graduates than most of the other provinces. (But if frozen tundra was your thing, you might as well go to Minot, ND, make a killing and buy a nice condo in Vancouver for your weeks off.

 

[NewCanadian]

Coming back to Canada as a Non-US/Non-Canadian medical school graduate may be difficult even if you complete your residency in the states, ......If you visit http://www.oimgc.utoronto.ca/ you can get the details. ...

To clarify:

IF your MD is done outside Canada/US, and then your residency is done in the US, applying to the OIMG is not appropriate. The Ontario IMG program is intended for someone with "Non-US/Canadian" MD and "Non-US/Canadian" specialty training. In other words, if you complete your MD in Europe/Asia etc., then you complete a residency in the US , you can then apply directly to the College of Physicians and Surgeons of (Province) for your licence.

And yes, as you suggested, the CPSOntario is the most strict, requiring LMCC and RCPSC certification before applying for a licence.

Of note, not all "under-serviced regions" in Ontario are in a rural setting.

 

[Nanomed Dreams]

Hmm, I don't know where you people are getting your tax rates, but on taxtips.ca, the tax brackets listed (for federal + provincial) in ontario are:

first $34,010 22.05%
over $34,010 25.15%
over $35,595 31.15%
over $68,020 33.16%
over $71,190 37.16%
over $115,739 40.16%

the corresponding info for the states (for federal only mind you), is:

0 - $7,300 10%
$7,300 - $29,700 15%
$29,700 - $71,950 25%
$71,950 - $150,150 28%
$150,150 - $326,450 33%
$326,450 - .... 35%

So in canada you reach the highest tax bracket more quickly, but the largest chunk they can take from you is pretty similar in both places. In these figures, each bracket is 3-5% higher in canada, but if you add state income tax in for the US rates, those margins will narrow. So while you will probably pay more taxes in canada if you make less than 326,000, they're certainly not taxing you at 60-80%, as it's sometimes made out to be. And once you start making in the range of 300,000, the amounts are remarkably similar.

A friend of mine in economics once did an indepth comparison between the US and Canadian income tax systems, and I remember that his conclusion was that in general, neither system had lower taxes, it just depends on your individual circumstances.

 

[Arb]

So what are the possibilities for someone doing the 2 year home requirement of the J1 visa? Is it possible to enter a 1-2 year training program in Canada if the length of your U.S. residency is too short?

 

[NewCanadian]

So what are the possibilities for someone doing the 2 year home requirement of the J1 visa? Is it possible to enter a 1-2 year training program in Canada if the length of your U.S. residency is too short?

Ontario funds positions for up to two years for someone who needs to top up training in order to meet the requirements of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada.
Ministry of Health and Long Term Care, Repatriation Program,
or
Email: [email protected]

However the point of doing this would be to get certification in Canada so you can work there. If you don't plan to stay in Canada, it is not for you.