US student applying in Canada

[turtlepower]

I have a question about applying to Canadian schools as a US citizen living in the US. I was just reading about McMaster and the uniques program they have and wondering about my chances of gaining admission as an American student. Officially they do take International students at this and several other Canadian schools, but how realistic is this? Also, if one does manage to get in, are there US loans to pay for it and how hard is it to get a US residency?

Any help is appreciated.

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[moo]

It is extremely difficult to get into medical school in Canada as an international student. Few have tried, fewer have succeeded. The only school that you might have a good shot at is McGill. Canadian schools should definitely not be used as "back-up" schools because they are just as hard or harder to get into than American schools.

As for residency, you will have a good shot at landing the residency of your choice as all Canadian schools are LCME accredited.

 

[The Musketeer]

It is extremely competitive to get into Canadian Med schools or (any professional schools for that matter) as a U.S. student because they only allow 2-3 spots each for international/U.S. students...that means you have to compete with MANY other students for those few spots (and U.S. students have NO precedence over international students).

 

[jbish]

When I was applying I believe McMaster stated they have 8 spots for US/Int'l students. McGill has 25-30. However, McMaster and McGill have two very different focuses for their education, so if you liked McMaster's program you probably wouldn't want to apply to McGill (McM is very family-med oriented/PBL whereas McG is more specialty-oriented and I think we have the most hours of lecture per week of any Canadian med school).

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by jbish
When I was applying I believe McMaster stated they have 8 spots for US/Int'l students. McGill has 25-30. However, McMaster and McGill have two very different focuses for their education, so if you liked McMaster's program you probably wouldn't want to apply to McGill (McM is very family-med oriented/PBL whereas McG is more specialty-oriented and I think we have the most hours of lecture per week of any Canadian med school).

An important point to note is that while mcmaster theoretically has 10 spots for "internationals" due to public outcry in ontario these spots almost never get filled.

Therefore your chances in an ontario university will not be great.

 

[Friendly]

Originally posted by turtlepower
I have a question about applying to Canadian schools as a US citizen living in the US. I was just reading about McMaster and the uniques program they have and wondering about my chances of gaining admission as an American student. Officially they do take International students at this and several other Canadian schools, but how realistic is this? Also, if one does manage to get in, are there US loans to pay for it and how hard is it to get a US residency?

Any help is appreciated.

Toronto has around 25 places. McGill has a ton of places. McMaster does have 10 spots...they have accepted 5 people at most in the past but recently, it has been only one. I believe they favor citizens from Commonwealth countries. All except one of those students was from outside the U.S. As for funding....as long as the school is LCME approved (I think most are in Canada), you're eligible for U.S. loans. You are not considered an FMG from these schools; you just need to take USMLE 1 and 2 like everyone else. Thus, your residency prospects are just as good in the U.S.

Most internationals don't know about it or don't apply for these positions....there is no " public outcry" in Canada about some spots being given to internationals; those places are over and above those spots for Canadians, so why would there be an outcry? In addition, I think a couple of Candian schools specifically say that you are not allowed to to enter into the candian residency match and make you sign a contract when you are admitted. This prevents you from competing against Canadaians for residency. So, as you can see, there should be no malice against international medical students in Canada. It's quite fair. However, be warned, tuition is 2-3-fold more for internationals.

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by Friendly
Toronto has around 25 places. McGill has a ton of places. McMaster does have 10 spots...they have accepted 5 people at most in the past but recently, it has been only one. I believe they favor citizens from Commonwealth countries. All except one of those students was from outside the U.S. As for funding....as long as the school is LCME approved (I think most are in Canada), you're eligible for U.S. loans. You are not considered an FMG from these schools; you just need to take USMLE 1 and 2 like everyone else. Thus, your residency prospects are just as good in the U.S.

Most internationals don't know about it or don't apply for these positions....there is no " public outcry" in Canada about some spots being given to internationals; those places are over and above those spots for Canadians, so why would there be an outcry? In addition, I think a couple of Candian schools specifically say that you are not allowed to to enter into the candian residency match and make you sign a contract when you are admitted. This prevents you from competing against Canadaians for residency. So, as you can see, there should be no malice against international medical students in Canada. It's quite fair. However, be warned, tuition is 2-3-fold more for internationals.

By public outcry i'm refering to a Tor Star article I came across last year, and why? Well it's simple even if the spots are above the spots for canadian students, the fact remains that Canadians (ONtarioans in particular) have a huge shortage of docs, and yet it remains one of the most difficult places to get into med school in N. america...so why are these spots freeing up for International students, when clearly we need to train more of our own doctors?

 

[Friendly]

Originally posted by redshifteffect
By public outcry i'm refering to a Tor Star article I came across last year, and why? Well it's simple even if the spots are above the spots for canadian students, the fact remains that Canadians (ONtarioans in particular) have a huge shortage of docs, and yet it remains one of the most difficult places to get into med school in N. america...so why are these spots freeing up for International students, when clearly we need to train more of our own doctors?

I see your point, I really do, but most of these spots are not "freeing up" for internationals. They are typically over and above the regular spots for Canadians and if these internationals are not practicing in Canada, what's the problem? As a Canadian studying overseas, I really do see where you're coming from but I still feel that any hatred toward internationals is unfair. After all, you're studying medicine in a country where it's typically difficult for local folks to get into, yet you're taking up a place, and you pay more fees to boot. This happens in medical schools in almost every country - not just Canada.

 

[jbish]

About tuition, it is 3/4 times as much for international students...but be aware that this is cheaper than any of the private schools in the States I applied to, and barely more expensive than my in-state public school. This year tuition is about $24,000 Canadian which in August translated to $18,000 U.S. And!! the tuition reduces every year...by fourth year I only have to pay $12,000 Cdn. That's cheap!

 

[Friendly]

Originally posted by jbish
About tuition, it is 3/4 times as much for international students...but be aware that this is cheaper than any of the private schools in the States I applied to, and barely more expensive than my in-state public school. This year tuition is about $24,000 Canadian which in August translated to $18,000 U.S. And!! the tuition reduces every year...by fourth year I only have to pay $12,000 Cdn. That's cheap!

True, but that's only for McGill. It's tough to make that generalization.

 

[turtlepower]

Canadian students: Thank you very much for all of the information. I am not looking for an easier way to enter medical school, I was just curious about my options. More specifically, I heard about the McMaster program from someone I work with who went to McGill and she had friends who went there and loved it. She thought that it would be a good program for me so I thought I would get more information before the next application cycle. I may apply to Canadian schools as well as American and see what happens. I think that it would be interesting to experience a different healthcare system...
I will take all of your comments into consideration.

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by Friendly
I see your point, I really do, but most of these spots are not "freeing up" for internationals. They are typically over and above the regular spots for Canadians and if these internationals are not practicing in Canada, what's the problem? As a Canadian studying overseas, I really do see where you're coming from but I still feel that any hatred toward internationals is unfair. After all, you're studying medicine in a country where it's typically difficult for local folks to get into, yet you're taking up a place, and you pay more fees to boot. This happens in medical schools in almost every country - not just Canada.

I understand that 100%, and in all fairness I should state that I have no prejuidice against Internationals studying in Canada - more power to them. But as I said there is resentment, because even though these spots are not being "freed" up the truth is that they could just fill those spots equally well with Canadians who need the education just as bad.

As for Australians, there are some locals here that feel the same way about us (internationals), and lol yes I probably did steal a spot of some local that deserved it (the spot), and I will probably in the future try and steal the spot of some local trying to be a doctor here...So I can understand both points of views. Because of me some aussie is probably studying in the UK...and because of him some UK student is probably studying in the carib. It's just a vicious cycle...lol with everyone getting screwed.

 

[jbish]

Originally posted by Friendly
True, but that's only for McGill. It's tough to make that generalization.

What the hell--I'm not generalizing at all. I go to McGill. I speak about McGill. At what point in my last post did I say that my tuition was about any other school? Of course it's only for McGill.

 

[Mike59]

Originally posted by turtlepower
More specifically, I heard about the McMaster program from someone I work with who went to McGill and she had friends who went there and loved it.

Just so you have a realistic idea bout your chances:

Mac advertises that they have "Up to 10 spots" for internationals. In reality, they have selected either 0 or 1 international per application cycle in the last 3 years, and that's from over 4000 applicants per year. These spots are not "reserved" as they imply, rather if a stellar applicant comes through, they may give them a shot, but again, keep the odds in perspective.

 

[JMH MD 2005]

 

[JMH MD 2005]

Unfortunately, the above poster is right, Mac takes very few international students. There is only 1 in my class (2005) and 1 in 2006. They will take up to 10 (they claim) but currently we have issues with teaching resources (i.e., clinical resources for electives and clerkship as well as tutors). Apparently the international applicants are above the 138 spots for Canadians.

If you have a solid GPA (>3.7), like to learn in small groups and through a problem-based learning curriculum, then sending an application to Mac is definately worth your time!

Mac is a great school and I'm sure most of my classmates would agree!!

All the best

 

[The Musketeer]

Hey JMH, please hey hi to Dave Banayan for me if you do see him! He should be in your class however I am not sure if he is in your group! If you do see him, then him 'CR' says hi!

Thanks!

 

[NuMD97]

Since this forum seems to attract some Canadians, perhaps I should post my query here: do you folks up north have a directory similar to our "green book" of all training programs in the US? And is it possible for American nationals to train in Canada?

Would appreciate any information about this. Thanks.