URMs with great stats

[RunwayModel]

i was following you up until the last statement....you have absoultely no way of knowing this....and you know nothing about flaahless' background nor of his EC's or personal story....i was at smdep 2006 at Yale medical school and a very, very chinese asian (who are more overrepensted than white males) got in with a 29 and a 3.3...now, whose to say that he doesn't deserve his acceptance....he scored over 230 on his boards and will probably match into derm....i mean this guy started a non-profit in undergrad....but you dont hear about these guys on this thread...you only hear about the blacks with the 28, 3.5 that get into feinberg and every1 flips a ****...truth is, affirmative action benefits EVERYONE, not jus race, its geneder, SE, LEGACY AND CONNECTIONS...my good friend is the daughter of an admissions officer at my state school...she will probably get in even if she scores a 23 on her MCAT...but neway, this is all anecdotal...i never questioned flaahless success...i believe he deserves everything hes earned...but i dont think we should pretend like AA doesnt exist and that some of us, not all, but prolly most, will benefit from it one way or another

Your last sentence proves the point I'm trying to make where you say, "I don't think we should pretend like AA doesn't exist". You know that as long as there are mechanisms in place that do give race a consideration in admissions, as the AMA, AAMC, and medical schools admit unabashedly, people like TupacalipseT96 will always have people automatically assume that its because of his race he got in and not because of his stellar stats.

Having AA, actually hurts minorities because inherently people are given the impression that certain races can't make it on their own without a little help and the minorities that it is trying to help, begin to feel that they can't get ahead without that help of AA, and that is not right. Just look at the comments on TupacalipseT96 MDapps page such as "oh **** so you are half black and half pseudolatino? haha bro, you are a ****ing genius. without AA, you'd probably get into 1/2 the schools." Wow, I guess that's supposed to be a compliment?

I personally think that AA doesn't work to correct underrepresentation in medicine. I wouldn't even call it a "band-aid" for the problem, as it doesn't even do that. It needs to start a LOT earlier than undergrad, starting with having BETTER public schools (John Edwards delineates this very well with respect to minorities not having access to good public schools).

AA doesn't work, if minorities don't get access to undergraduate education which is affected by public schooling. But wait that's more expensive and takes time, so let's just find a "quick fix" so we can SAY we're doing something, like AA.

With respect to you saying you were up with me till my last sentence on my post: What I was saying, as stated in my previous sentence, and you KNOW that this is a fact, is that if he had been a white male, with the same GPA, same MCAT score it would not have mattered WHAT his ECs and personal statement were (but let's say for the sake of argument, they were identical to Flahless' ECs and PS), he would NOT have gotten the interview. Thus, he would not have had the opportunity to be able to have the face-to-face evaluation with an admissions officer to put his application into context and show that he really can be a good doctor and obtain the position. He's cute, he showed his vibrant personality, and smiled and put his application in context. So although his academics may not be top notch, he has the other qualities it takes to be a good doctor (i.e. good bedside manner - no pun intended).

I ALSO agree that if he had spectacular MCATs and GPA, same ECs, same personal statement, thus giving him an interview and then he had been a complete anal-retentive tool at the interview he would not have gotten the position as well, as the admissions officer would have once again been able to evaluate him face-to-face.

The ONLY difference is for GETTING the opportunity to get that face-to-face evaluation in the first place, and AA helped in his case with GETTING the interview, no doubt and it's not embarassing to say that.

Like I said I agree with your statement completely where you say "I dont think we should pretend like AA doesnt exist." Because it does and there is no need to be ashamed of it either.

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[GZA]

First off, unless you went to Cal, UCLA or Michigan, then your public state school is lying about their SAT averages.And I don't know your friend from Harvard so I don't really care to speculate on how or why he was admitted.

My perception is that if a person has a 3.8/35+ with no other glaring deficiences, than that person has a great chance at scooping up a top 10 acceptance, no matter what ethnicity they are. And there are also non-urms at top 10s with stats of 3.7/30+ and lower. Med school admissions is not as "stat-centered" as this forum makes it out to be. Better yet, life is not as "stat-centered: as this forum makes it out to be.

It disgusts me when people make definitive statements and lack proper knowledge.

 

[TamarMD]

Your last sentence proves the point I'm trying to make where you say, "I don't think we should pretend like AA doesn't exist". You know that as long as there are mechanisms in place that do give race a consideration in admissions, as the AMA, AAMC, and medical schools admit unabashedly, people like TupacalipseT96 will always have people automatically assume that its because of his race he got in and not because of his stellar stats.

Having AA, actually hurts minorities because inherently people are given the impression that certain races can't make it on their own without a little help and the minorities that it is trying to help, begin to feel that they can't get ahead without that help of AA, and that is not right. Just look at the comments on TupacalipseT96 MDapps page such as "oh **** so you are half black and half pseudolatino? haha bro, you are a ****ing genius. without AA, you'd probably get into 1/2 the schools." Wow, I guess that's supposed to be a compliment?

I personally think that AA doesn't work to correct underrepresentation in medicine. I wouldn't even call it a "band-aid" for the problem, as it doesn't even do that. It needs to start a LOT earlier than undergrad, starting with having BETTER public schools (John Edwards delineates this very well with respect to minorities not having access to good public schools).

AA doesn't work, if minorities don't get access to undergraduate education which is affected by public schooling. But wait that's more expensive and takes time, so let's just find a "quick fix" so we can SAY we're doing something, like AA.

With respect to you saying you were up with me till my last sentence on my post: What I was saying, as stated in my previous sentence, and you KNOW that this is a fact, is that if he had been a white male, with the same GPA, same MCAT score it would not have mattered WHAT his ECs and personal statement were (but let's say for the sake of argument, they were identical to Flahless' ECs and PS), he would NOT have gotten the interview. Thus, he would not have had the opportunity to be able to have the face-to-face evaluation with an admissions officer to put his application into context and show that he really can be a good doctor and obtain the position. He's cute, he showed his vibrant personality, and smiled and put his application in context. So although his academics may not be top notch, he has the other qualities it takes to be a good doctor (i.e. good bedside manner - no pun intended).

I ALSO agree that if he had spectacular MCATs and GPA, same ECs, same personal statement, thus giving him an interview and then he had been a complete anal-retentive tool at the interview he would not have gotten the position as well, as the admissions officer would have once again been able to evaluate him face-to-face.

The ONLY difference is for GETTING the opportunity to get that face-to-face evaluation in the first place, and AA helped in his case with GETTING the interview, no doubt and it's not embarassing to say that.

Like I said I agree with your statement completely where you say "I dont think we should pretend like AA doesnt exist." Because it does and there is no need to be ashamed of it either.

Actually RunwayModel if you do a search on MDapps you will find that there are white males and females who have gotten interviews AND acceptances from schools with scores like flaahless. There are also asian males and females that have received interviews and acceptances as well. Is it harder for them? yes no one is doubting that. Are there a lot of them? No but since MDapps doesn't take EVERY person who applies to medical school and puts their stats up (because it's voluntary) we will never know how many non-URMs apply with sub-par grades and non stellar MCAT scores. But to say that had flaahless been a white male he would not have received an interview invite is purely ignorant. There was obviously something in Flaahless application that made these medical schools want to interview him. I highly doubt that the California medical schools are so lacking in applications from URMs that "EARNED" their spots that they have to take someone with "sub-par" grades to fill their URM quota. There are plenty of URMs with scores that mirror TupacEclipse. Also if a medical student is so concerned with the fact that someone in their class doesn't "deserve" to be there instead of focusing on themselves then maybe they should quit medical school and become a politician and force a change.

However I do agree with you on all your other statements. I am a URM and I wrote a paper for my racism in society class about my viewpoints on AA in undergrad and professional instititutions and said pretty much the same thing. If our government would actually spend money on making schools that are in underserved areas more appealing (better books, better teachers) for the students and help them when the problem starts and level the educational playing field then we wouldn't have as much need for AA as we do now. This resulted in many of my classmates calling me an Aunt Tom (because I'm a girl) and a self-hating negro obviously not getting the point that I was trying to make. Yet some states, like the great state of Florida, believe that they should reward schools with good test scores and punish those with bad ones. So what happens? Well in an area where they have more funding and can afford tutoring prep programs students do well on their state exams. So the government says "great job here's more money". Yet in schools in the "ghetto" where they can't afford these programs the students do worse on the state exams. The gov't chooses not to see a correlation with the lack of funding and goes "well those kids just can't learn so we're not going to give them more money that they obviously need".

 

[scarterinscrubs]

Yet some states, like the great state of Florida, believe that they should reward schools with good test scores and punish those with bad ones. So what happens? Well in an area where they have more funding and can afford tutoring prep programs students do well on their state exams. So the government says "great job here's more money". Yet in schools in the "ghetto" where they can't afford these programs the students do worse on the state exams. The gov't chooses not to see a correlation with the lack of funding and goes "well those kids just can't learn so we're not going to give them more money that they obviously need".

This is a reason why the AA exists in undergrad and Med School Admissions. I agree that the biggest help should go to k-12 schools. Until then, AA should play a role in the application process.

Whats this about AA benefiting minorties. Isn't that why it was brought into effect in the first place. I mean, its like saying blacks benefited from the Emancipation Proclamation.

 

[flaahless]

It disgusts me when people make definitive statements and lack proper knowledge.

Yeah I was wrong for that. Sorry.

 

[What up doc]

Your last sentence proves the point I'm trying to make where you say, "I don't think we should pretend like AA doesn't exist". You know that as long as there are mechanisms in place that do give race a consideration in admissions, as the AMA, AAMC, and medical schools admit unabashedly, people like TupacalipseT96 will always have people automatically assume that its because of his race he got in and not because of his stellar stats.

Having AA, actually hurts minorities because inherently people are given the impression that certain races can't make it on their own without a little help and the minorities that it is trying to help, begin to feel that they can't get ahead without that help of AA, and that is not right. Just look at the comments on TupacalipseT96 MDapps page such as "oh **** so you are half black and half pseudolatino? haha bro, you are a ****ing genius. without AA, you'd probably get into 1/2 the schools." Wow, I guess that's supposed to be a compliment?

I personally think that AA doesn't work to correct underrepresentation in medicine. I wouldn't even call it a "band-aid" for the problem, as it doesn't even do that. It needs to start a LOT earlier than undergrad, starting with having BETTER public schools (John Edwards delineates this very well with respect to minorities not having access to good public schools).

AA doesn't work, if minorities don't get access to undergraduate education which is affected by public schooling. But wait that's more expensive and takes time, so let's just find a "quick fix" so we can SAY we're doing something, like AA.

With respect to you saying you were up with me till my last sentence on my post: What I was saying, as stated in my previous sentence, and you KNOW that this is a fact, is that if he had been a white male, with the same GPA, same MCAT score it would not have mattered WHAT his ECs and personal statement were (but let's say for the sake of argument, they were identical to Flahless' ECs and PS), he would NOT have gotten the interview. Thus, he would not have had the opportunity to be able to have the face-to-face evaluation with an admissions officer to put his application into context and show that he really can be a good doctor and obtain the position. He's cute, he showed his vibrant personality, and smiled and put his application in context. So although his academics may not be top notch, he has the other qualities it takes to be a good doctor (i.e. good bedside manner - no pun intended).

I ALSO agree that if he had spectacular MCATs and GPA, same ECs, same personal statement, thus giving him an interview and then he had been a complete anal-retentive tool at the interview he would not have gotten the position as well, as the admissions officer would have once again been able to evaluate him face-to-face.

The ONLY difference is for GETTING the opportunity to get that face-to-face evaluation in the first place, and AA helped in his case with GETTING the interview, no doubt and it's not embarassing to say that.

Like I said I agree with your statement completely where you say "I dont think we should pretend like AA doesnt exist." Because it does and there is no need to be ashamed of it either.

bullsh*t...you dont know this, and never will. didnt i just tell you about my friend at yale that got an interview and acceptance despite is below average numbers? jeez, like jada said: "c'mon pay attention"...

Having AA, actually hurts minorities because inherently people are given the impression that certain races can't make it on their own without a little help and the minorities that it is trying to help,

yes, some misinformed and usually disaffected ppl will have this view. this is an unfortunate pitfall of affirmative action. however, at the moment, the pros outweigh the cons. the cons being that some ppl will wrongfull assume AA beneficiaries are under qualified. the pros being the number of URM representation in the medical field will increase and will allow URMs to not only adress health care disparities in URM communities, but serve as role models for younger URMS and even the majority

It needs to start a LOT earlier than undergrad, starting with having BETTER public schools (John Edwards delineates this very well with respect to minorities not having access to good public schools). But wait that's more expensive and takes time, so let's just find a "quick fix" so we can SAY we're doing something, like AA.

yes, youre right. it does need to start much earlier. but as you said, this is much easier said than done. not only that, but money is NOT the only issue. its not like if you throw money at the schools it will all of sudden increase the quality of education. it is wound that is much deeper than most are willing to let on. and as such, a "band aid", a trite name that you claim to have originated, is neccesary to slow down the bleeding. AA is not a panacea. but it is the best thing we have for now

He's cute, he showed his vibrant personality, and smiled and put his application in context. So although his academics may not be top notch, he has the other qualities it takes to be a good doctor (i.e. good bedside manner - no pun intended).

dayum, i really hope that helped as much as you suggested, cuz if 'looks' can get you an acceptance then i should be straaaaaiiight! lol, but forreal tho, how many times do i gotta say it? EVERY1 benefits from AA! ask some medical students and theyll tell you, you can go A LONGGGGG way in this process if you KNOW the right people, race notwithstanding! it is the proliferation of covert racism that causes people to only point the finger at URMs and particularly blacks. look dude, i know for damn sure could i have gotten into any undergrad in the country with my "numbers", but ppl still claim that i only got whati got cuz of AA. and guess what, there was a time, before there was AA, when ppl would say that black ppl shouldnt even be accepted into college to begin with! and we arent too far removed from those times, either. oh, and dude, did you know that AA was initially created for WHITE PPL! there is a book, called the "The Chosen" that talks all about it...how admission officers at HYP started affrimative action because there were too many unathletic-jews gaining admission based on their numbers alone. so to rectify the problem, admission officers started looking at other qualities, such as leadership potential, charisma, and personality. now isnt that ironic?

 

[RunwayModel]

Actually RunwayModel if you do a search on MDapps you will find that there are white males and females who have gotten interviews AND acceptances from schools with scores like flaahless. There are also asian males and females that have received interviews and acceptances as well. Is it harder for them? yes no one is doubting that. Are there a lot of them? No but since MDapps doesn't take EVERY person who applies to medical school and puts their stats up (because it's voluntary) we will never know how many non-URMs apply with sub-par grades and non stellar MCAT scores. But to say that had flaahless been a white male he would not have received an interview invite is purely ignorant. There was obviously something in Flaahless application that made these medical schools want to interview him. I highly doubt that the California medical schools are so lacking in applications from URMs that "EARNED" their spots that they have to take someone with "sub-par" grades to fill their URM quota. There are plenty of URMs with scores that mirror TupacEclipse. Also if a medical student is so concerned with the fact that someone in their class doesn't "deserve" to be there instead of focusing on themselves then maybe they should quit medical school and become a politician and force a change.

However I do agree with you on all your other statements. I am a URM and I wrote a paper for my racism in society class about my viewpoints on AA in undergrad and professional instititutions and said pretty much the same thing. If our government would actually spend money on making schools that are in underserved areas more appealing (better books, better teachers) for the students and help them when the problem starts and level the educational playing field then we wouldn't have as much need for AA as we do now. This resulted in many of my classmates calling me an Aunt Tom (because I'm a girl) and a self-hating negro obviously not getting the point that I was trying to make. Yet some states, like the great state of Florida, believe that they should reward schools with good test scores and punish those with bad ones. So what happens? Well in an area where they have more funding and can afford tutoring prep programs students do well on their state exams. So the government says "great job here's more money". Yet in schools in the "ghetto" where they can't afford these programs the students do worse on the state exams. The gov't chooses not to see a correlation with the lack of funding and goes "well those kids just can't learn so we're not going to give them more money that they obviously need".

I've gone to MDApps, and while it is voluntary, it definitely proves my point.

Try inputting in the Search Profiles option, check URM and then Med school acceptance and then do it a second time, without the URM part. The caliber of schools gotten into are very different, if you compare similar stats, those who weren't URMs with low scores and MCATs got mainly D.O. school acceptances or like 1 M.D. school acceptance vs. URMS got several M.D. school acceptances. Yes, I understand their ECs and personal statements are not exact. But I'm looking at the general trend/pattern which supports what I said. That doesn't mean just being a URM makes you get an M.D. acceptance. They have to draw the line somewhere.

I can't prove Flahless being white would not have gotten him the interview, and you can't prove he would have. I CAN go by the general trend and draw an accurate conclusion.

If you think I'm incorrect, look it up yourself on MDApps.

I never said URMs can not get high scores, I pointed that out myself. TupacEclipse doesn't need the help of AA. He is already well qualified with his academic stats. But its cases where many who did benefit from AA, affect those who did earned their spot without an outside mechanism. It's also wrong to say, based on his own MDApps that I can't draw a conclusion, because the first cut is usually by GPA and MCATs (yes, there are exceptions but once again I am talking about the general trend), the personal statement and extracurriculars are secondary if not tertiary.

My point was how insane it is to deny the existence of AA having a huge impact and it does even at the expense of taking those with lesser academic stats. And when it comes to correlation statistics of undergraduate to passing USMLE Step 1, Surprise! Undergrad GPA and MCAT had the strongest correlation to passing Step 1 of the Boards more than anything else. While I agree this is not the only factor to being a good doctor, it is a major factor if you want to become a doctor in the United States period. If you can't pass Step 1, you won't be allowed to continue to third year at most med schools.

 

[flaahless]

Try inputting in the Search Profiles option, check URM and then Med school acceptance and then do it a second time, without the URM part. The caliber of schools gotten into are very different, if you compare similar stats, those who weren't URMs with low scores and MCATs got mainly D.O. school acceptances or like 1 M.D. school acceptance vs. URMS got several M.D. school acceptances. Yes, I understand their ECs and personal statements are not exact. But I'm looking at the general trend/pattern which supports what I said. That doesn't mean just being a URM makes you get an M.D. acceptance. They have to draw the line somewhere.

Look. I was flattered that you called me cute so I didn't want to burn you out. But you're trying really hard to prove a point that is based on pure conjecture and ******* logic.

MDapps is not reality. Nuff said.

I can't prove Flahless being white would not have gotten him the interview, and you can't prove he would have. I CAN go by the general trend and draw an accurate conclusion.

1st. Not all schools use a numerical cutoff. Jefferson does, 8 being the lowest, so I didn't apply there. I applied to schools that explicitly said they didn't have a cutoff. ie: Vandy, Tulane, Louisville, and the UCs believe it or not. For the UCs, you are screened according to numbers. If you pass, you get a secondary. If not, your app goes into a pile. Then your app gets reviewed holistically, regardless of who you are. And if you get your app in early, then you incrrease your chances. So please get off the AA tip.

In fact, here's an interesting stat for you. Of the 2 schools that I applied to that did mention they had strict MCAT cutoffs, I was rejected at both. Where was the AA there?

Lastly, the only person that has seen my app on this site is Lord Jeebus. He was on the UCSD adcom and said... "he would have been equally as successful if he were white." So please, get off the nuts.

My point was how insane it is to deny the existence of AA having a huge impact and it does even at the expense of taking those with lesser academic stats. And when it comes to correlation statistics of undergraduate to passing USMLE Step 1, Surprise! Undergrad GPA and MCAT had the strongest correlation to passing Step 1 of the Boards more than anything else. While I agree this is not the only factor to being a good doctor, it is a major factor if you want to become a doctor in the United States period. If you can't pass Step 1, you won't be allowed to continue to third year at most med schools.

Duhh. A standardized test shoddily predicts performance on another standardized test? What a brilliant conclusion! Of course GPA and MCAT are going to correlate more than say.... a donkey. What else can have a correlation? ECs? PS? How can you measure the statistical significance of those?

Anyways, my point is just because it had the strongest correlation from a group of ridiculous criteria, doesn't make it valid.

AA occurs. No one is denying it. But it is not universal. And a great strategy solid app help a lot more. So, if you don't have all of that information, then please keep your prejudiced conjecture to yourself.

 

[patriots0000000]

Hi everyone,

I am a URM who has been able to obtain some good stats (3.87, 37) and great ECs. I find myself getting frustrated sometimes when talking about applications with friends. I have been able to go on some great interviews, but whenever I tell anyone my racial background I get the rolling eyes and assumptions that I am playing the race card. Personally, I am uncomfortable with URMs using race as their main hope for getting into medical school. I find it downright offensive when others think that my main qualification and reason for application success is my race. Are there any other URMs with good stats and ECs that are dealing with this? How do you approach the subject with non-URM friends? Good luck to everyone else for the cycle.

Yea I was in the boat as you actually, my mcat was exceptional, my gpa was little lower than yours 3.81, and I have numerous substantial ECs. You honestly cant help how others feel or what they think, nothing will ever change that. As for my non-URM friends they knew what I was capable of being in the same classes and majors getting higher scores than them. I am matriculating this year to my first year of med school and I still get the eyes rolling from some when I tell them I got accepted to a large amount of schools some top 10s, I just walk away knowing how I got to this point and that keeps me more than satisfied. ALSO hey im going to med who cares what you think!

 

[puchi]

Wow just reading this saddens me. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.

 

[RunwayModel]

Look. I was flattered that you called me cute so I didn't want to burn you out. But you're trying really hard to prove a point that is based on pure conjecture and ******* logic.

MDapps is not reality. Nuff said.


1st. Not all schools use a numerical cutoff. Jefferson does, 8 being the lowest, so I didn't apply there. I applied to schools that explicitly said they didn't have a cutoff. ie: Vandy, Tulane, Louisville, and the UCs believe it or not. For the UCs, you are screened according to numbers. If you pass, you get a secondary. If not, your app goes into a pile. Then your app gets reviewed holistically, regardless of who you are. And if you get your app in early, then you incrrease your chances. So please get off the AA tip.

In fact, here's an interesting stat for you. Of the 2 schools that I applied to that did mention they had strict MCAT cutoffs, I was rejected at both. Where was the AA there?

Lastly, the only person that has seen my app on this site is Lord Jeebus. He was on the UCSD adcom and said... "he would have been equally as successful if he were white." So please, get off the nuts.

Duhh. A standardized test shoddily predicts performance on another standardized test? What a brilliant conclusion! Of course GPA and MCAT are going to correlate more than say.... a donkey. What else can have a correlation? ECs? PS? How can you measure the statistical significance of those?

Anyways, my point is just because it had the strongest correlation from a group of ridiculous criteria, doesn't make it valid.

AA occurs. No one is denying it. But it is not universal. And a great strategy solid app help a lot more. So, if you don't have all of that information, then please keep your prejudiced conjecture to yourself.

Just because you did not do spectacular on the MCAT, there is no reason to say it "shoddily" predicts performance on the USMLE Step 1, when that is not true. And if you call GPA, MCATs, Extracurriculars, and PS a "group of ridiculous criteria", I really don't know what to say. Nothing is exactly perfect. Your MDApp, speaks for itself.

"MDapps is not reality. Nuff said." -- So you're application page is all made up? Give me a break.

 

[gabem480]

Standardized tests suck and I too would agree that they shoddily predict outcomes of other tests. Can you gaurantee that beacause some one blew the MCAT that they are also going to blow the USMLE? There are just too many variables to predict it. I wouldn't be surprised if this theory hasn't already been proven wrong. If you ask me a USMLE score is not what I would chose my doctor based off compassion is the key I want a doctor who is caring not one that will judge me based on the color of my skin. Let's be real no matter what you are going to be a competent doc if you get through med school and pass the boards everything else is irrelevant. A patient will not know you for your numbers they will know you for your service and attitude IMO.

 

[Tired]

Let's be real no matter what you are going to be a competent doc if you get through med school and pass the boards everything else is irrelevant.

What if they failed it once, then passed it?

Or twice?

 

[gabem480]

A pass is a pass granted it took two attempts but it was done. Your a physician if you pass that test and get through med school. Now this person might not specialize but who am I to say they won't be a good physician? Doc's are not 1 dimensional it takes a lot more than a score on a test to gauge if a person would make a good doc.

 

[RunwayModel]

Standardized tests suck and I too would agree that they shoddily predict outcomes of other tests. Can you gaurantee that beacause some one blew the MCAT that they are also going to blow the USMLE? There are just too many variables to predict it. I wouldn't be surprised if this theory hasn't already been proven wrong. If you ask me a USMLE score is not what I would chose my doctor based off compassion is the key I want a doctor who is caring not one that will judge me based on the color of my skin. Let's be real no matter what you are going to be a competent doc if you get through med school and pass the boards everything else is irrelevant. A patient will not know you for your numbers they will know you for your service and attitude IMO.

Once again, you may think it SHODDILY predicts performance on later board licensing exams, but what you think doesn't matter. The research data proves differently, just bc you don't agree with doesn't make it shoddy. Just go to www.pubmed.org and type "MCAT AND USMLE" and you will see it yourself.

I never said that one exam predicts 100% how well of a doctor you will be nor did I say it is 100% fate that if you do poorly on the MCAT, you will fail the USMLE. You are getting off on a tangent. You know perfectly well, what patients desire in their doctors vs. what is used in the admissions process are different variables. No **** a patient will not know you for your numbers, unless you tell them. I'm talking about getting through the medical curriculum, as if you don't pass the USMLE Step 1, you won't be able to finish medical school to become that compassionate doctor. Even compassionate doctors have to pass standardized exams.

The research is very clear that when they look at those who failed the USMLE the first time (which does affect which residencies are open to you), and when u look back at the data, most of these students had low GPAs and low MCAT scores.

 

[sa94401]

Reading this thread, I think a lot of people that might seem like they are on opposing sides are making sense. My two cents, I wish URM/AA would be about money. In some states, like Alabama, it is. My friend's sister in law who is white was the first in her family to go to college. She go into the state med school in birmingham as an econ. disadv. individual. She ended up dropping out, and doing a masters, I believe, but she was given a shot and she is a hard worker.

Sometimes when I see very priviledged students who are 1/8th something or other getting into schools that I would have killed for, I wonder if "education" is being served.

As an Asian, I was told point blank at one med school that my mcat score needed to be way higher than the class average to guarantee admission because I was some form of asian/pacific islander/indian/pakistani (my score was roughly 9 points higher at the time I was told this, but my sci gpa was not that strong).

However, I think the most fair world would be where competitive great jobs like law, med, business execs had the same demographics as the US's population. No over, no under. To achieve that, other areas of disadvantaged people's lives need to be addresses - and much earlier than their college application year.

 

[jbarredo]

Wow just reading this saddens me. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.

I'll second that.

 

[LovelyMD]

Please be aware that the Underrepresented in Healthcare forum is not for discussion of AA. To discuss affirmative action, please use the sociopolitical forum. Thanks

 

[What up doc]

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[What up doc]

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