Update on VA legislation

[de Ribas]

I am cautiously optimistic about this. But I do have some doubts about the avg salary reaching 220-250K.

Not the base salary.

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[ExperiencedDPM]

Its mandated by the government because its warranted.

Relax man. This is a step forward. Podiatrist are no longer clumped with allied health and instead in the same category as physicians and surgeons for pay grade. Soon, this will likely set premise for other government/military sector jobs and allow Podiatrist access to the same benefits/loan assistance programs etc.

Relax man? Really?

My point is that just as money doesn’t buy class, paying DPMs more at the VA doesn’t mean that other medical professions are suddenly going to “respect” us any more. Respect is earned and has nothing to do with with the amount of money the VA pays.

I don’t need a lecture regarding steps in the right direction. When I applied for hospital privileges while you were in diapers, I was “allowed” to do nails, warts and uncomplicated skin surgery. I had excellent training and went for the jugular and fought the head of surgery, the a-hole who was the head of ortho and everyone in between to perform all foot and ankle surgical procedures. . And now I’m the first person at that hospital to perform a total ankle. So I know what it’s like to move ahead.

I understand you are excited that this is a move forward. Over my career I’ve encountered dozens and dozens of steps forward, but have come to the conclusion that unless you have an MD after your name, the respect you are given will rarely be on par with their peers (MDs) in their minds.

 

[hematosis]

I don’t need a lecture regarding steps in the right direction. When I applied for hospital privileges while you were in diapers, I was “allowed” to do nails, warts and uncomplicated skin surgery. I had excellent training and went for the jugular and fought the head of surgery, the a-hole who was the head of ortho and everyone in between to perform all foot and ankle surgical procedures. . And now I’m the first person at that hospital to perform a total ankle. So I know what it’s like to move ahead.
.

let it all out bro.

 

[ldsrmdude]

Let’s keep this discussion on topic, folks. If you don’t want to interact with someone, put them on ignore.

 

[hypermobility]

Relax man? Really?

My point is that just as money doesn’t buy class, paying DPMs more at the VA doesn’t mean that other medical professions are suddenly going to “respect” us any more. Respect is earned and has nothing to do with with the amount of money the VA pays.

I don’t need a lecture regarding steps in the right direction. When I applied for hospital privileges while you were in diapers, I was “allowed” to do nails, warts and uncomplicated skin surgery. I had excellent training and went for the jugular and fought the head of surgery, the a-hole who was the head of ortho and everyone in between to perform all foot and ankle surgical procedures. . And now I’m the first person at that hospital to perform a total ankle. So I know what it’s like to move ahead.

I understand you are excited that this is a move forward. Over my career I’ve encountered dozens and dozens of steps forward, but have come to the conclusion that unless you have an MD after your name, the respect you are given will rarely be on par with their peers (MDs) in their minds.

You seem off touch here minimizing the first podiatry specific bill to ever pass Congress.

“The passage of this legislation represents the largest advancement for federally employed podiatrists since 1976, and is the first bill specific to podiatry passed by the United States Congress.”

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

You seem off touch here minimizing the first podiatry specific bill to ever pass Congress.

“The passage of this legislation represents the largest advancement for federally employed podiatrists since 1976, and is the first bill specific to podiatry passed by the United States Congress.”

I’m not minimizing anything. The term I’m discussing is respect. I’ve been at this a long time and know that this bill won’t automatically bring us “respect”.

If you don’t understand that, I assure you that you will soon enough.

 

[med2345]

I’m not minimizing anything. The term I’m discussing is respect. I’ve been at this a long time and know that this bill won’t automatically bring us “respect”.

If you don’t understand that, I assure you that you will soon enough.

Well I think the problem also is like you said the new pods and experienced ones like you are coming from completely different eras in terms of residency training. 0-1 year resident trained pods fought the battle. If we were MD DO so many years back (when you were a resident) I think we all would have trouble believing a 1 year trained resident (plus fellow) should be doing a ton of surgeries when and MD DO is putting in atleast 5+ years for any surgical specialty besides OB. It’s all of these things + bills like this that are adding up to make the change. I think it’s tough to compare your time.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

I’m not minimizing anything. The term I’m discussing is respect. I’ve been at this a long time and know that this bill won’t automatically bring us “respect”.

If you don’t understand that, I assure you that you will soon enough.

Respect or not, this is undoubtedly a step forward in the positive direction.

It is a win, big or small, for those of us who have worked hard sending emails, calling our state legislatures and meeting up with them in DC (while in school). I also believe in earning respect through hard work, which I tend to do, but the passage of this bill gives us students a bit of confidence going forward while being in this profession.

 

[Utvolsdpm]

Any word when Trump is actually going to sign???

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

Well I think the problem also is like you said the new pods and experienced ones like you are coming from completely different eras in terms of residency training. 0-1 year resident trained pods fought the battle. If we were MD DO so many years back (when you were a resident) I think we all would have trouble believing a 1 year trained resident (plus fellow) should be doing a ton of surgeries when and MD DO is putting in atleast 5+ years for any surgical specialty besides OB. It’s all of these things + bills like this that are adding up to make the change. I think it’s tough to compare your time.

Point well taken, but don’t assume that everyone who fought the battle had a 0-1 year residency. I had strong residency training and that didn’t matter to many of those I encountered. All they saw was the DPM after my name and they never saw past that issue.

 

[hypermobility]

Any word when Trump is actually going to sign???

This Memorial Day, a Win for America’s Veterans

 

[hypermobility]

I’m not minimizing anything. The term I’m discussing is respect. I’ve been at this a long time and know that this bill won’t automatically bring us “respect”.

If you don’t understand that, I assure you that you will soon enough.

I assure you I’ll understand soon enough, whenever this pay raise hits my bank account

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

I assure you I’ll understand soon enough, whenever this pay raise hits my bank account

It’s not always all about money.

 

[Utvolsdpm]

Tha

This Memorial Day, a Win for America’s Veterans[/QUOTE

This Memorial Day, a Win for America’s Veterans

thanks! Are you at the va too?

 

[hypermobility]

It’s not always all about money.

For me it mostly is at this point. I have to remind orthos, gen surg, and hospitalists that I cant do BKA’s, to their dismay.

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

For me it mostly is at this point. I have to remind orthos, gen surg, and hospitalists that I cant do BKA’s, to their dismay.

Understood. Fortunately or unfortunately I’ve seen a lot of great changes that moved our profession ahead. Then there are some DPMs who are thieves who set us back. I’ve witnessed it over and over again.

The newer generation of MDs have a better understanding of our value and scope, since many of them trained in hospitals with Podiatric residencies.

 

[air bud]

Just by thinking about supply and demand, this should be a positive impact. 1) If pay is increased there would be at least a reasonable solid figure to go by to negotiate higher pay, per se at a private practice. 2) By the same token if more of these positions become available, the number of the podiatrists you hear getting low-balled right out of residency would decrease. In essence I believe competitiveness increases for the employer. All of this to an extent of course, and just my personal thoughts on it.

All politics is local. A private practice employer does not care what anyone else pays. You want to work in their city. They make the rules. If you don't like it Pound sand some other new grad will take the offer because they want to live in that city

 

[air bud]

Would you say PAs, PTs, RNs, MAs, Radiology technicians and so on do not get the respect they deserve?

I think people earn respect individually based on where they are and what they do and how they do it. Nurses are respected for what they do. Therapists are respected in their niche as well. DPMs are respected in their own niche doing good job where they are.

Why do we always have to compare DPMs to MDs? Why can't DPM physiciand be content and respected for what they do?

MD is not the only healthcare field to feel content and satisfied providing patient care. People can get respect in any field.

I am sure there are MDs that are not respected either or even sued by their patients and public.

Not everything is in the letters behind the name.

Those other jobs don't try and do the same job as an MD. That's the difference. A radiology tech isn't trying to fix an Achilles tendon rupture that the Ortho wants to fix.

 

[927926]

All politics is local. A private practice employer does not care what anyone else pays. You want to work in their city. They make the rules. If you don't like it Pound sand some other new grad will take the offer because they want to live in that city

Right, which is why I mentioned:

....the number of the podiatrists you hear getting low-balled right out of residency would decrease..... All of this to an extent of course,....

I too would take a job over no job if pp with underpay was my only option where I wanted to live.

 

[OsTrigonum]

So..... did the bill end up getting signed by the president?

 

[hypermobility]

So..... did the bill end up getting signed by the president?

Unofficial word is that bill is to be signed June 6. (D-Day)

 

[OsTrigonum]

Not yet

Unofficial word is that bill is to be signed June 6. (D-Day)

I thought the unofficial word was Memorial Day this past Monday?

 

[DexterMorganSK]

I thought the unofficial word was Memorial Day this past Monday?

The Prez is busy talking about "prison reforms" with Kim K

 

[hypermobility]

I thought the unofficial word was Memorial Day this past Monday?

Initially, yes. However VA announced they will not run out of Choice funds for the next two weeks. This allows an assembly of a large crowd for the signing with congress members (out of town this week), VSO’s, etc.

 

[Podstar]

The Prez is busy talking about "prison reforms" with Kim K

Aside off topic:

It’s very smart of him working with prominent figures in pop culture, sports, and entertainment. When a Kim K, Kanye West, or Bill Belichick (Patriots) fan sees that he is working with these people for reform it helps them to buy in more so if it was just him saying these things.

On topic:

I have also heard June 6th will be the signing date.

 

[OsTrigonum]

Initially, yes. However VA announced they will not run out of Choice funds for the next two weeks. This allows an assembly of a large crowd for the signing with congress members (out of town this week), VSO’s, etc.

Aside off topic:

It’s very smart of him working with prominent figures in pop culture, sports, and entertainment. When a Kim K, Kanye West, or Bill Belichick (Patriots) fan sees that he is working with these people for reform it helps them to buy in more so if it was just him saying these things.

On topic:

I have also heard June 6th will be the signing date.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[hypermobility]

To be signed Wednesday, now official.

 

[Utvolsdpm]

Signed it finally!!!

 

[de Ribas]

Signed it finally!!!

It is signed indeed.

 

[hypermobility]

Great day for podiatry

 

[Charm Anders]

So how is this going to make me more rich? It seems like it was better than nothing, but I doubt a piece of paper will make podiatrists more respected all of a sudden.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

So how is this going to make me more rich? It seems like it was better than nothing, but I doubt a piece of paper will make podiatrists more respected all of a sudden.

It wasn't made to make Pods more 'respected'

Within the VA: the bill changes the pay scale for DPMs to those of an MD/DO, DPMs can get a supervisory role for clinical and research positions, the term Podiatrists is changed to a Podiatric Surgeon.

 

[Charm Anders]

It wasn't made to make Pods more 'respected'

Within the VA: the bill changes the pay scale for DPMs to those of an MD/DO, DPMs can get a supervisory role for clinical and research positions, the term Podiatrists is changed to a Podiatric Surgeon.

And what percent of all pods work in the VA?

 

[DexterMorganSK]

And what percent of all pods work in the VA?

400+, so not a big %

 

[Charm Anders]

400+, so not a big %

So this won't really do much. And anyone who thinks it will is just speculating.

 

[Charm Anders]

Lol

Looks like you created account just to troll.

Am I wrong?

 

[dtrack22]

2-3% of podiatrists work at a VA hospital. My understanding is that those numbers include even the guys with their own practices who cover a VA clinic maybe 1-2 days a week. But even if it's only the full-time salaried docs, it's still minimal.

It only puts more money in the pockets of the DPMs that already work for and will work for the VA in the near future. Which is good for them, they deserve to be paid fairly for the work they do. It honestly probably makes getting a VA job harder, especially for new grads. If the VA can come out and say "you start at $200k" there are gonna be a lot of DPMs with a lot more experience than a new grad, applying for those jobs. And they are more likely to get 'em.

I've already given my 2 cents on how this has absolutely zero impact on increasing any sort of "legitimacy" of podiatry within the medical community as a whole. That is very regional, even local in some cases, and a large private hospital network is going to have much more influence in that regard compared to the VA.

But again, the focus should be on those that are about to receive bigger paychecks. That's who it benefits and that's who I'm excited for. Like I said, they deserve it.

 

[Charm Anders]

2-3% of podiatrists work at a VA hospital. My understanding is that those numbers include even the guys with their own practices who cover a VA clinic maybe 1-2 days a week. But even if it's only the full-time salaried docs, it's still minimal.

It only puts more money in the pockets of the DPMs that already work for and will work for the VA in the near future. Which is good for them, they deserve to be paid fairly for the work they do. It honestly probably makes getting a VA job harder, especially for new grads. If the VA can come out and say "you start at $200k" there are gonna be a lot of DPMs with a lot more experience than a new grad, applying for those jobs. And they are more likely to get 'em.

I've already given my 2 cents on how this has absolutely zero impact on increasing any sort of "legitimacy" of podiatry within the medical community as a whole. That is very regional, even local in some cases, and a large private hospital network is going to have much more influence in that regard compared to the VA.

But again, the focus should be on those that are about to receive bigger paychecks. That's who it benefits and that's who I'm excited for. Like I said, they deserve it.

Glad to see we can agree on the minimal impact of this bill in the grand scheme of things.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Glad to see we can agree on the minimal impact of this bill in the grand scheme of things.

It's a step forward in a positive direction for this profession.

 

[Charm Anders]

As I said, it's better than nothing.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Its gonna do a lot of good for the vets. Higher pay means well trained and talented Pods are gonna be attracted to the VA than before. Those who leave the private sector will make room for new pods.

This is gonna save a lot of limbs and possibly lives for our vets. Pods do good work in limb preservation.

As I said, it's better than nothing.

 

[AttackNME]

Think of how many students and residents spend time rotating at the VA, their quality of education will substantially improve

 

[hypermobility]

Giving roughly 400 podiatrists the opportunity to obtain supervisory positions in a hospital system is huge.

 

[air bud]

As has been said by others, this will work out better for pods a few years out as opposed to new grads. I think more private practice associates 2 or 3 years out that have been screwed over by partners and disillusioned with the profession and some of those stresses will take these jobs. Somebody with a few years experience will almost always get the job over a new grad even if they graduated from the Harvard of podiatry residency.

 

[927926]

That is very regional, even local in some cases, and a large private hospital network is going to have much more influence in that regard compared to the VA.

And why would they do that? My understanding is (correct me if I am wrong) the hospital DPM jobs are the ones sought after, because of exactly that- pay (200K+) and legitimacy (also get to use most of your training) compared to the rest of the opportunities out there. What would cause a large private hospital to want to increase pay and title of DPM's even more if their position is already in high demand as it stands?

 

[dtrack22]

And why would they do that? My understanding is (correct me if I am wrong) the hospital DPM jobs are the ones sought after, because of exactly that- pay (200K+) and legitimacy (also get to use most of your training) compared to the rest of the opportunities out there. What would cause a large private hospital to want to increase pay and title of DPM's even more if their position is already in high demand as it stands?

Well because many of the largest hospital networks in the country still do not hire podiatrists. Your assertation is only correct if all of these networks already hired DPMs at all of their facilities. Unfortunately that is not even close to being the case. Providence hiring DPMs in the PNW (they currently do not, other than 2 who were already employees of a hospital they recently acquired) would have a way bigger impact on "legitimacy" or "competition" or "opportunity" for DPMs than anything the VA will do on a national scale.

And let's not pretend that a podiatrist gets to "use most of" their training by working at many of these VA facilities. We've all rotated through them. For every hospital that has a true Foot and Ankle service run by a podiatrist or 3, there is another that cuts off toenails and feet and does very little of anything else.

Giving roughly 400 podiatrists the opportunity to obtain supervisory positions in a hospital system is huge.

For those podiatrists, yes. But let me know when private hospital networks begin following the "VA model," or make any administrative or operational decisions based on what the VA does for that matter. I'll let you know the next time someone tries to copy the "Kaiser model." I will be calling you first...

 

[dtrack22]

I think more private practice associates 2 or 3 years out that have been screwed over by partners and disillusioned with the profession and some of those stresses will take these jobs. Somebody with a few years experience will almost always get the job over a new grad even if they graduated from the Harvard of podiatry residency.

and this brings up one of those unintended consequences I think should be considered by current students, residents...

I agree that if new VA positions are opened or at least the current openings pay better, young DPMs that have been screwed by other podiatrists and older DPMs that are tired of running a business will be the ones filling the positions. Not new grads. So what's left for them? Oh, even more opportunities to work for a podiatry group. But won't the VA increasing pay somehow mean that podiatry groups will have to pay more to? No, besides the fact that this has never been the case even when ortho groups and hospitals started hiring, it defies the economic law of supply and demand. If new grads can't even get a VA job, current podiatry groups have even more potential applicants to choose from. Which means they are more likely to find someone to work for very little money.

 

[air bud]

and this brings up one of those unintended consequences I think should be considered by current students, residents...

I agree that if new VA positions are opened or at least the current openings pay better, young DPMs that have been screwed by other podiatrists and older DPMs that are tired of running a business will be the ones filling the positions. Not new grads. So what's left for them? Oh, even more opportunities to work for a podiatry group. But won't the VA increasing pay somehow mean that podiatry groups will have to pay more to? No, besides the fact that this has never been the case even when ortho groups and hospitals started hiring, it defies the economic law of supply and demand. If new grads can't even get a VA job, current podiatry groups have even more potential applicants to choose from. Which means they are more likely to find someone to work for very little money.

The new grads who would benefit are those that do VA residencies. I could see those becoming much more competitive since it is a way to funnel into the system. That doesn't mean you would get great training since you may go to one run by TFPs, but then you would graduate, becoming an attending there then be involved in moving the training forward.

 

[dtrack22]

The new grads who would benefit are those that do VA residencies. I could see those becoming much more competitive since it is a way to funnel into the system.

Yeah, I could see that happening. Especially if current attending(s) are involved in the hiring. Having that relationship and experience with the current staff could very well outweigh the experience and board certification that outside applicants would have.

 

[dpmgrad]

Any word when Trump is actually going to sign???

The VA Mission Bill was signed by Donald Trump on Wednesday, June 6, 2018.