Unsuccessful Cycle with 42 MCAT, would like some advice to assess app weakness. Thanks!

[JackyLin]

First off, I meant no arrogance with the title, just want to catch some attention for help. I hope I don't offend anyone by that.

Long story short, I applied to 30 schools with the following:

gGPA/sGPA - 3.51/3.45
- low freshmen (~3.0)
- 3.7x sophomore
- low junior (~3.1)
- 3.975 senior year (took a risk at redeeming myself by taking 28 units/7 courses compared to normal workload. Had a mixture of upper division humanities/social sciences and sciences)

MCAT (P/V/B)
April 2011 - 29P (11/9/9)
August 2011 - 33M (13/10/10)
April 2013 - 42 (14/13/15)

Clinical ~ 300 hours
Shadow ~ 100 hours

Research
~2 years at a school of medicine neuroscience lab, working on my Masters thesis and projected defense date is in summer, potential submission
~0.5 year in 2011 working in an immunology lab

Scattered community service/school volunteers ~200 hours

CA resident.

Received only two IIs in the cycle, both somewhat early and from top 10 schools (one ~9/20 another ~10/8), ended up with one waitlist and one pseudo-waitlist/rejection. Nothing from target/safeties.

My hypothesis is weakness in the secondaries, as the two schools I got IIs from did not have "why this school" questions and have alternate prompts which I devote extra time on, could that be it? Any insights are appreciated. Let me know if you guys want more info.

School list (I know it's top heavy but I went overboard so I wouldn't think of "what if I applied"..)

Stanford
Columbia
Mount Sinai
Yale
U of Chicago
Johns Hopkins
Harvard
Northwestern
Washington St.Louis
Mayo
U of Michigan
Cornell
U of Penn
U of Pitts
Vanderbilt
Duke
UCSD
UCSF
UCLA
UCI
UCR
UCD
Emory
BU
NYU
Rochester
Jefferson
Creighton U
Tulane
GWU

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[Beargryllz]

I wanted to say apply more broadly, but 30 schools has to be close to the upper limit...

I wish I had something to tell you. I'm guessing you've already looked into getting off the waitlist by showing lots of interest without being too pushy/annoying.

I guess the only advice I can give would be to lower your standards and apply again if you don't get taken off the waitlist because top schools can surely recruit applicants with 4.0s and 40s on their MCAT

 

[tigga2013]

rec letters?

First off, I meant no arrogance with the title, just want to catch some attention for help. I hope I don't offend anyone by that.

Long story short, I applied to 30 schools with the following:

gGPA/sGPA - 3.51/3.45
- low freshmen (~3.0)
- 3.7x sophomore
- low junior (~3.1)
- 3.975 senior year (took a risk at redeeming myself by taking 28 units/7 courses compared to normal workload. Had a mixture of upper division humanities/social sciences and sciences)

MCAT (P/V/B)
April 2011 - 29P (11/9/9)
August 2011 - 33M (13/10/10)
April 2013 - 42 (14/13/15)

Clinical ~ 300 hours
Shadow ~ 100 hours

Research
~2 years at a school of medicine neuroscience lab, working on my Masters thesis and projected defense date is in summer, potential submission
~0.5 year in 2011 working in an immunology lab

Scattered community service/school volunteers ~200 hours

CA resident.

Received only two IIs in the cycle, both somewhat early and from top 10 schools (one ~9/20 another ~10/8), ended up with one waitlist and one pseudo-waitlist/rejection. Nothing from target/safeties.

My hypothesis is weakness in the secondaries, as the two schools I got IIs from did not have "why this school" questions and have alternate prompts which I devote extra time on, could that be it? Any insights are appreciated. Let me know if you guys want more info.

School list (I know it's top heavy but I went overboard so I wouldn't think of "what if I applied"..)

Stanford
Columbia
Mount Sinai
Yale
U of Chicago
Johns Hopkins
Harvard
Northwestern
Washington St.Louis
Mayo
U of Michigan
Cornell
U of Penn
U of Pitts
Vanderbilt
Duke
UCSD
UCSF
UCLA
UCI
UCR
UCD
Emory
BU
NYU
Rochester
Jefferson
Creighton U
Tulane
GWU

 

[EMDO2018]

N

 

[JackyLin]

Rec letters might have been it also, I am trying to get feedback from one of the school I interviewed at to find out whether they are the issue. 1 from bio prof, 1 PI, one polisci prof.

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

Here's what I see: you have a great, great MCAT score. But, what happened with your grades? Up and down. Down and up. That last year, when you took 28 credits tells me you can be focused when you so desire, but that only seems to come in fits, not consistently.

But here's what I suggest: cut back on so many reaches. It's like you took your list straight out of some "top 20 medical school" list. Those also tend to be the research-heavy schools, but with only two years doing research, you look weak compared to your peers. Instead, find the schools that appeal based on their mission. (And yes, be careful about how you come across. it's probably easy to sound arrogant with a 42 MCAT, but that's not the whole picture.)

 

[BeancheBlanco]

you applied to 30 schools but your list is basically the top 30 medical schools. You even got 2 interviews from top 10 schools which is exactly what you should have been hoping for with your list. Your MCAT is insane but remember that your GPA is below the 10th percentile for almost all of the schools you applied to (and that includes URMs, which I am assuming you are not...making you even further behind the rest of the applicants of your demographic). You can't reasonably expect more than 2 interviews at top 20 schools and from there, it's just about how good of an interviewer you were. You should definitely add a broader range of schools to apply to next cycle.

 

[Doctorman45342]

It is pretty obvious you have a super-brain here. Either get your GPA up or apply to some med-tier schools I guess.

 

[JackyLin]

you applied to 30 schools but your list is basically the top 30 medical schools. You even got 2 interviews from top 10 schools which is exactly what you should have been hoping for with your list. Your MCAT is insane but remember that your GPA is below the 10th percentile for almost all of the schools you applied to (and that includes URMs, which I am assuming you are not...making you even further behind the rest of the applicants of your demographic). You can't reasonably expect more than 2 interviews at top 20 schools and from there, it's just about how good of an interviewer you were. You should definitely add a broader range of schools to apply to next cycle.

Thanks guys for the feedback. I understand how it looks top heavy, but with my app, where should I have aimed as my target schools a year ago? Also, based on a quick look up on US News, I did have are some that are not top 30:

UCI #43
UCR (not yet ranked)
UCD #40
BU #32
Rochester #34
Jefferson #60
Creighton U #71
Tulane unranked
GWU #60

Also, while my GPA is low, it's still above the 10th percentile at some of the top 30 schools, of course my data may be outdated last year (used 2011 cycle data)

I originally had not planned to apply to 30 schools, but just wanted to throw in the top schools for the sake of it, that's what made it 30. I guess my question was if not for the secondary/LoR, what might it have been that excluded me from having one single interview for the above schools, but 2 from top 10 schools?

(And yes, be careful about how you come across. it's probably easy to sound arrogant with a 42 MCAT, but that's not the whole picture.)

I'm not sure what you mean here, but I meant I wasn't trying to flaunt the score by putting it on the thread title, just trying to grab readers. Again, sorry if it comes off as off-putting.

 

[LongTimeLurk]

CA resident.

Thats your problem.

 

[DrMidlife]

You should have gotten more love, and there's definitely something wrong here.

Med schools can't tell you anything about why you're rejected, because parents & lawyers & psychos. You won't get an answer to "did I have a bad letter?" because then you can go after the letter writer, and then med schools will start having a hard time getting people to write letters.

If you don't know exactly what kind of a recommendation you received in your letters, then you should assume you got tanked there. Also assume that your essays didn't work.

By this point, after all those ECs and years of undergrad, you should have multiple mature professional adults with whom you can sit down (coffee, lunch, your dime) and discuss your motivation, your preparation, your assets, your liabilities. Kiss some serious fanny, humble yourself and get the feedback you need. Ask to be evaluated as if you were a professional colleague. It will be very difficult for you to get true useful negative feedback for the same reasons I list above, so you'll have to be polite and persistent and pursue multiple possibles. Never ever ever argue when somebody gives you negative feedback. Even if it hurts you to the bone, just say "thank you for your input; I'll take that into consideration". You'll want to find the meanest, most honest old fart who knows you and take notes.

I don't see your GPA roller coaster as a death blow. There would have to have been something else. Maybe letters. Maybe immaturity, arrogance, ignorance etc. Root it out & try again, unless somebody who has seen what you can do tells you they really think you should pursue something other than medicine.

Bets of luck to you.

 

[HopesandDreams]

Not sure how worthy I am to give advice but this thread attracted my attention because it seems like we have a similar profile (high MCAT, masters , not the highest gpas (mine is lower) etc. I think you definitely need to apply much more broadly and that doesn't just mean more schools but it means selecting some schools from different tiers. It seems like your list is pretty much the top 20 or so schools + gwu, rochester, and ucr.

I'm gonna be raw here and I hope I dont offend you. I think you saw that 42 mcat and thought you didn't need to apply to a lot of safety schools. I think that a lot of people might look at that mcat and say "so what? he/she took it 3 times. Give a person enough chances and enough time to study, and anyone will do well."

Had to edit this bc didn't see your earlier post. Don't count CA schools as safeties, they are extremely competitive regardless of rankings. BU gets >10k apps per year, as well as recruiting heavily from their smp and other linkages, definitely not a safety, extremely competitive. I'd say GWU and Tulane are in a vein similar to BU (I believe % wise GWU is the most selective school on MSAR right? only because of the insane amount of apps they get). Tulane may be unranked but it's in a very desirable locale for some, as well as recruits from its own masters linkage. You need to apply more broadly and to real safety schools IE schools that just opened like florida atlantic, OUWB, hofstra etc or schools in less desirable locations. Also apply to some schools in PA and NY, they have many med schools per capita in those states. Instead of targeting the top tier with a few safeties, target mid to low tier with a few reaches. Don't think of yourself as a 42mcat applicant but as a (29+33+42)/3 = 34.6mcat applicant. It may not be fair but I think that's how some people will react when they see your stats.

 

[JackyLin]

Thank you guys for your inputs! I really appreciate it.

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

I'm not sure what you mean here, but I meant I wasn't trying to flaunt the score by putting it on the thread title, just trying to grab readers. Again, sorry if it comes off as off-putting.

HopesandDreams explained my thinking more fully with this: Don't think of yourself as a 42mcat applicant but as a (29+33+42)/3 = 34.6mcat applicant. It may not be fair but I think that's how some people will react when they see your stats.

You're also a CA resident, which makes this process that much harder. I suggest you gear your school choices differently. First, skip coming up with where they are on some list. Choose the school based on some other criteria. I write that not only for you to think about why you'd select that school, but for you to figure out what message you're sending as you prepare your application. Are you selecting the school because you want to be in a research-heavy environment. That's the case with the bulk of the schools you initially listed. ---Stanford, Columbia, Mount Sinai, Yale, U of Chicago, Johns Hopkins, Harvard, Northwestern, Washington St.Louis, Mayo, U of Michigan, Cornell, U of Penn, U of Pitts, Vanderbilt, Duke, UCSD, UCSF, UCLA --- That's 19 schools that are just not a good fit because you don't have a lot of research. Find some other tie-in with schools you pick because that will show up in your essays and in your interviews.

 

[nabilesmail]

If it makes you feel better, I'm a Cali applicant applied late with 3.74/3.74 34 MCAT -> Didn't get in, reapplied (with lower grades but early + better essays) with 3.60/3.63 34 MCAT -> Didn't get in, Now I'm gonna be a 3rd time reapp and do a SMP despite a overall decent GPA (I need the linkage associated with the SMP ;/)

 

[JackyLin]

HopesandDreams explained my thinking more fully with this: Don't think of yourself as a 42mcat applicant but as a (29+33+42)/3 = 34.6mcat applicant. It may not be fair but I think that's how some people will react when they see your stats.

You're also a CA resident, which makes this process that much harder. I suggest you gear your school choices differently. First, skip coming up with where they are on some list. Choose the school based on some other criteria. I write that not only for you to think about why you'd select that school, but for you to figure out what message you're sending as you prepare your application. Are you selecting the school because you want to be in a research-heavy environment. That's the case with the bulk of the schools you initially listed. ---Stanford, Columbia, Mount Sinai, Yale, U of Chicago, Johns Hopkins, Harvard, Northwestern, Washington St.Louis, Mayo, U of Michigan, Cornell, U of Penn, U of Pitts, Vanderbilt, Duke, UCSD, UCSF, UCLA --- That's 19 schools that are just not a good fit because you don't have a lot of research. Find some other tie-in with schools you pick because that will show up in your essays and in your interviews.

Perhaps the two years I had then was not long enough, but it has now been three years and I am defending my graduate thesis next month, working on submission in the near coming future. Would that be more adequate background for research? Or are publications before application more or less a soft requirement for these schools?

If it makes you feel better, I'm a Cali applicant applied late with 3.74/3.74 34 MCAT -> Didn't get in, reapplied (with lower grades but early + better essays) with 3.60/3.63 34 MCAT -> Didn't get in, Now I'm gonna be a 3rd time reapp and do a SMP despite a overall decent GPA (I need the linkage associated with the SMP ;/)

That's surprising also! Have you consider possibilities other than your GPA?

 

[DrMidlife]

If it makes you feel better, I'm a Cali applicant applied late with 3.74/3.74 34 MCAT -> Didn't get in, reapplied (with lower grades but early + better essays) with 3.60/3.63 34 MCAT -> Didn't get in, Now I'm gonna be a 3rd time reapp and do a SMP despite a overall decent GPA (I need the linkage associated with the SMP ;/)

That's surprising also! Have you consider possibilities other than your GPA?

This is typical for California. There are just way too many 3.6+/32+ applicants for too few med school seats. Take heed.

 

[nabilesmail]

Perhaps the two years I had then was not long enough, but it has now been three years and I am defending my graduate thesis next month, working on submission in the near coming future. Would that be more adequate background for research? Or are publications before application more or less a soft requirement for these schools?



That's surprising also! Have you consider possibilities other than your GPA?

My premed adviser said my activities section is informative and descriptive, I read my LOR and no flags there, and I met with the head of admissions at a Mid/Top school and she said everything looked fine and that I must be the unluckiest applicant in the world lol

 

[solitarius]

My premed adviser said my activities section is informative and descriptive, I read my LOR and no flags there, and I met with the head of admissions at a Mid/Top school and she said everything looked fine and that I must be the unluckiest applicant in the world lol

Was there meaningful improvement in your re-application?


OP, I think the problem is that you're a high-risk candidate. Med schools like low-risk candidates - i.e., predictable people who will pass training and predictable superstars who will go on and become leaders in the field. Your two best attributes (MCAT, Senior year GPA) are offset by multiple MCAT retakes and see-saw performance. Take the MCAT that you quoted in your title, for instance. Your score and potential would be perceived much differently if you had the 42 on a first and single attempt. It's still a great score two attempts later, but at that point, it might just be you learned how to take the MCAT better.

I would recommend delaying your re-app cycle until the last year in which you can still use that 42 MCAT score. Before then, take some post-bac classes and bulk up on ECs.

 

[nabilesmail]

Was there meaningful improvement in your re-application?

Not too much, an extra year of research and 40 hours of free clinic volunteering. I think I already had an average/acceptable amount of EC's though (I got 4 interviews the cycle before though all of them were late). My biggest thing is I got a 3.0 during my senior year (right before my 2nd application), trend is bad, but overall GPA was still above a 3.6.

But, I thought a fairly early application, and 30 schools (with 20-25 of them being low tier) would have been enough (agreed by a head of admissions at a good med school).

This time, I have an extra clinical experience, more hours from my previous free clinic volunteering, another semester with a different research project, 1 year teaching MCAT classes, and starting my own private tutoring practice to add. This alongside a SMP with a high linkage should be enough I think . (I also took 1 extra semester post 2nd application and got a 4.0 though only 10 units were graded)

 

[solitarius]

Not too much, an extra year of research and 40 hours of free clinic volunteering. I think I already had an average/acceptable amount of EC's though (I got 4 interviews the cycle before though all of them were late). My biggest thing is I got a 3.0 during my senior year (right before my 2nd application), trend is bad, but overall GPA was still above a 3.6.

But, I thought a fairly early application, and 30 schools (with 20-25 of them being low tier) would have been enough (agreed by a head of admissions at a good med school).

This time, I have an extra clinical experience, more hours from my previous free clinic volunteering, another semester with a different research project, 1 year teaching MCAT classes, and starting my own private tutoring practice to add. This alongside a SMP with a high linkage should be enough I think . (I also took 1 extra semester post 2nd application and got a 4.0 though only 10 units were graded)

I hope it works out for you. Better yet, hope you get off that waitlist!

 

[nabilesmail]

I hope it works out for you. Better yet, hope you get off that waitlist!

Not holding my breath! Was on a WL last year and it didn't materialize. God hates me too much to take me off a waitlist haha =P

 

[gyngyn]

OP, I think the problem is that you're a high-risk candidate. Med schools like low-risk candidates - i.e., predictable people who will pass training and predictable superstars who will go on and become leaders in the field. Your two best attributes (MCAT, Senior year GPA) are offset by multiple MCAT retakes and see-saw performance. Take the MCAT that you quoted in your title, for instance. Your score and potential would be perceived much differently if you had the 42 on a first and single attempt. It's still a great score two attempts later, but at that point, it might just be you learned how to take the MCAT better..

This is a significant part of this puzzle. Schools that can take anyone will compare OP to other high MCAT applicants who don't have the erratic gpa's and are not re-applicants.

The "safety schools" interview a very small proportion of people with a 42 MCAT because the yield is so low..

 

[JackyLin]

This is a significant part of this puzzle. Schools that can take anyone will compare OP to other high MCAT applicants who don't have the erratic gpa's and are not re-applicants.

The "safety schools" interview a very small proportion of people with a 42 MCAT because the yield is so low..

So I'm at quite a disadvantage unless I complete a SMP and apply extremely widely, correct?

 

[gyngyn]

So I'm at quite a disadvantage unless I complete a SMP and apply extremely widely, correct?

An SMP would be one way to acquire advocates that can vouch for your reliability. You need to apply to targeted schools, not "widely."

 

[DrMidlife]

An SMP would cost about $50k and a couple cross-country moves. Youu'd have to finish it before reapplying to the California schools. SMP apps for fall '14 closed a couple months ago.

Otherwise an SMP isn't a bad idea, as long as your 42 doesn't expire in the meantime.

In California, with a 3.5ish, it's a decent option to pursue proper grad work, such as a research masters. Get some pubs. Apply again halfway through.

 

[JackyLin]

An SMP would be one way to acquire advocates that can vouch for your reliability. You need to apply to targeted schools, not "widely."

Would using the aforementioned way of considering the average of the MCATs with my GPA a reasonable measure to find the target schools? If comparing the averages of each alone, my GPA is below average for a large portion of the schools, making my target schools outlook rather bleak..

An SMP would cost about $50k and a couple cross-country moves. Youu'd have to finish it before reapplying to the California schools. SMP apps for fall '14 closed a couple months ago.
Otherwise an SMP isn't a bad idea, as long as your 42 doesn't expire in the meantime.

In California, with a 3.5ish, it's a decent option to pursue proper grad work, such as a research masters. Get some pubs. Apply again halfway through.

My MCAT was taken last year, so if I were to apply to SMP starting next fall, my MCAT would expire the year after and can't be used.

I am actually near completion with my master degree right now, I engaged in a MS/BS program before I graduated undergrad. publication may take a few more months however. I got 3.96 during grad (which doesn't mean much I know)

 

[el_duderino]

Bleak? There are a lot of schools those numbers make you competitive for. You might not be going to Mayo or Columbia but an MD program is certainly within reach.

 

[JackyLin]

Bleak? There are a lot of schools those numbers make you competitive for. You might not be going to Mayo or Columbia but an MD program is certainly within reach.

I meant if I were to count schools with average GPA below 3.51 as targets I would not have many, thus asking if counting along with an averaged MCAT would be a good indicator.

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

An SMP would be one way to acquire advocates that can vouch for your reliability. You need to apply to targeted schools, not "widely."

@gyngyn, what would be a targeted school in this case? I thought these schools were too high reaching and research-heavy: Stanford, Columbia, Mount Sinai, Yale, U of Chicago, Johns Hopkins, Harvard, Northwestern, Washington St.Louis, Mayo, U of Michigan, Cornell, U of Penn, U of Pitts, Vanderbilt, Duke, UCSD, UCSF, UCLA, NYU, Emory, BU.

Are these other schools on OP's list targeted schools: UCI, UCR, UCD, Rochester, Jefferson, Creighton U, Tulane, GWU?

 

[gyngyn]

I meant if I were to count schools with average GPA below 3.51 as targets I would not have many, thus asking if counting along with an averaged MCAT would be a good indicator.

Schools where your gpa is above the 10th%, your average MCAT is near the median and where you are not a re-applicant might be a good start. Schools like Emory, Case, and USC come to mind.

 

[gyngyn]

@gyngyn, what would be a targeted school in this case? I thought these schools were too high reaching and research-heavy: Stanford, Columbia, Mount Sinai, Yale, U of Chicago, Johns Hopkins, Harvard, Northwestern, Washington St.Louis, Mayo, U of Michigan, Cornell, U of Penn, U of Pitts, Vanderbilt, Duke, UCSD, UCSF, UCLA, NYU, Emory, BU.

Are these other schools on OP's list targeted schools: UCI, UCR, UCD, Rochester, Jefferson, Creighton U, Tulane, GWU?

Many of the schools in paragraph one are likely to be risk averse and do not tend to prefer re-applicants.
Paragraph two schools interview relatively few 42 MCAT's and if they do, they have a good reason to believe that the applicant might matriculate. I don't see it in what we know about OP.

 

[JackyLin]

@gyngyn, what would be a targeted school in this case? I thought these schools were too high reaching and research-heavy: Stanford, Columbia, Mount Sinai, Yale, U of Chicago, Johns Hopkins, Harvard, Northwestern, Washington St.Louis, Mayo, U of Michigan, Cornell, U of Penn, U of Pitts, Vanderbilt, Duke, UCSD, UCSF, UCLA, NYU, Emory, BU.

Are these other schools on OP's list targeted schools: UCI, UCR, UCD, Rochester, Jefferson, Creighton U, Tulane, GWU?

Just for the record, I never considered those as my 'target" schools haha, I know better than being that naive. But what would a baseline research experience be adequate for those?

I don't see it in what we know about OP.

What do you mean?

 

[gyngyn]

What do you mean?

Is there anything in your application that would make a screener at UCD believe that you have a compelling interest in serving the unmet needs of the San Joaquin Valley (or any or their other target populations), for example.

 

[JackyLin]

Schools like Emory, Case, and USC come to mind.

I'm using the older LizzyM chart, but schools like Tufts, Brown (despite the inner program tendency), Eistein would sort of be in this category, correct?

Is there anything in your application that would make a screener at UCD believe that you have a compelling interest in serving the unmet needs of the San Joaquin Valley (or any or their other target populations), for example.

I see, thank you for clarifying.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm using the older LizzyM chart, but schools like Tufts, Brown (despite the inner program tendency), Eistein would sort of be in this category, correct?

Yes.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Not holding my breath! Was on a WL last year and it didn't materialize. God hates me too much to take me off a waitlist haha =P

Have you considered DO schools?

 

[nabilesmail]

Yup, I decided I'd rather to an smp and get into a MD to keep some residency options open just in case I'm interested in some of the more competitive fields

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

Just for the record, I never considered those as my 'target" schools

No, I didn't think so either. What's an older LizzyM chart?

 

[JackyLin]

No, I didn't think so either. What's an older LizzyM chart?

The 2010-2011 lizzym score excel?

 

[QofQuimica]

You need to apply to targeted schools, not "widely."

This.

OP, first, I agree that you are a high risk, high reward kind of candidate. When you do well, you do really well. There is clearly a lot of potential there. But your perceived drive (or lack thereof) to study medicine is a real concern to adcoms, because med school seats are a limited commodity. The question they're wondering about is, are you the kind of person who, when you don't feel like putting forth the effort, will just wind up dropping or flunking out? Every med student who fails to graduate is one less future practicing physician. That is why so many adcoms would prefer to take a solid honors student with consistent stats over a gifted but inconsistent student whose performance yoyos around like yours does. Will you be someone who sticks with the grind of med school after the shiny newness of your acceptance wears off? That's a question you need to answer honestly for yourself, because if you're not convinced yourself that you will see this thing through, then you have no hope of convincing others that you will.

All that being said, I don't think you need to do an SMP. When you applied, you made the same mistake that tens of thousands of other premeds do: applying to all the same coastal schools that are in cities where everyone else wants to live. Many of those schools get 10,000+ apps, and they're not the right schools for a non-standard applicant like you. Forget about going to med school in Boston, New York, or California. You should be focusing your efforts on schools in the Midwest, where there are many equally good schools that get far fewer apps than the coastal schools do based solely on geographic location.

In addition, as gyngyn suggested, you need to use the MSAR to help determine whether your career goals match the mission of the med schools you select. For example, if you're interested in an academic career, you want to apply to schools that are interested in training academic physicians. You should be able to give a clear rationale for why you selected every school on your list beyond just that you want to get in somewhere and you liked the geographic location. If you can't do that, then you either need to learn more about the specific med schools, or you need to work on your written and oral presentation skills. Either way, you shouldn't be applying in the first place until you A) know why you want to go to med school, B) can communicate this clearly to others via your essays and interviews.

 

[Goro]

Worry about getting into medical school before blithely assuming that just because you have an MD, that you can waltz into a peds GI residency.

Yup, I decided I'd rather to an smp and get into a MD to keep some residency options open just in case I'm interested in some of the more competitive fields

 

[JackyLin]

But your perceived drive (or lack thereof) to study medicine is a real concern to adcoms. Will you be someone who sticks with the grind of med school after the shiny newness of your acceptance wears off? That's a question you need to answer honestly for yourself, because if you're not convinced yourself that you will see this thing through, then you have no hope of convincing others that you will.

Forget about going to med school in Boston, New York, or California. You should be focusing your efforts on schools in the Midwest, where there are many equally good schools that get far fewer apps than the coastal schools do based solely on geographic location.

You should be able to give a clear rationale for why you selected every school on your list beyond just that you want to get in somewhere and you liked the geographic location. If you can't do that, then you either need to learn more about the specific med schools, or you need to work on your written and oral presentation skills. Either way, you shouldn't be applying in the first place until you A) know why you want to go to med school, B) can communicate this clearly to others via your essays and interviews.

I don't know what to say. Thank you for putting it bluntly like that, I really appreciate it. Surprised that this is the impression my app gives directly.

You are right, some of these schools I did pick without extensive consideration, and perhaps that is the actual main issue underlying my downfall. I will definitely scrutinize over how my motivation is conveyed by my app this time around, and communicate my desire in the most effective ways. Thank you very much again.

 

[Stagg737]

OP: If your secondary essays are a concern of yours, apply to less schools. I'd say apply to around 20 schools (25 max) and really do your homework as to what those schools value/want out of their students before you apply. Example: many of the schools you applied to are very research oriented while other schools (like Creighton) are much more focused on providing care to the underserved and believe in cura personalis. Spend at least 20 minutes or a half hour on the websites of any school you want to apply to and figure out what they want out of their students (research vs. primary care, rural vs. urban, local vs. global, etc). If you can't show them how you will help them fulfill their mission in your application, you should reconsider applying there.

I say this because I did the same thing you did. In my second cycle, I applied to 35 schools and wrote a ridiculous number of essays. When I applied for the third time I reviewed some of my previous essays and saw a huge drop in quality after about the 15th app. If you apply too broadly it becomes difficult to cater your essays to each school and the overall quality of the apps will obviously suffer. Figure out how many essays you can reasonably write without getting burned out and use that to decide how many schools you will apply to.

To @nabilesmail and OP: I once asked a physician what I should look for in the medical school I wanted to attend. He told me to forget about 'tiers' and school ranks. He said that the most important thing was to find a school where I felt comfortable and that I thought would have the tools and curriculum to get the highest board scores possible. He told me that residencies will take a candidate from a weak school with near perfect boards over a Harvard grad who just barely passes every time. He also happened to be a Harvard grad. That's the best advice I've ever gotten about choosing my schools to apply to. If you think that a top ten school is the place for you, go for it! However, if you think a low tier or DO school fits you better, don't dismiss it just because it doesn't have 'prestige'.

 

[Plecopotamus]

Rec letters might have been it also, I am trying to get feedback from one of the school I interviewed at to find out whether they are the issue. 1 from bio prof, 1 PI, one polisci prof.

You've already gotten a lot of good feedback. Add me to those who think your school list was top heavy (with poorly chosen non-top-tiers) & that you've underestimated what a risk you look like with fluctuating GPAs *and* MCAT (I know that was an up-trend, but it begs question as to whether the initial MCAT reflects the same problem as your intermittent poor grades).

Anyhow, I'm chiming in b/c nobody else seems to have commented on this info about your LORs. Did you really only submit these 3? That's the bare minimum, and I could be mistaken, but I would expect the PI letter to come in addition to your 2 science professors' letters. Overall, it seems sparse for someone with a graduate degree. I also wonder if you would benefit significantly from a LOR from someone who could attest to your performance in your clinical volunteering -- if your stats call into question your ability to consistently perform, I'd hate for anybody to wonder if you're lacking a clinical LOR b/c you were flakey or seemed disinterested in that arena, too.

 

[nabilesmail]

Worry about getting into medical school before blithely assuming that just because you have an MD, that you can waltz into a peds GI residency.

I am, it was a very long, tough, and brutal decision. I submitted mY D.O. primary, but, I thought that an extra 1 year competing a SMP with a very high linkage was overall worth it.

I'm not saying i will absolutely pursue some super competitive field, I'd just like to keep the option open. I have been pretty attracted to surgery, but thats definitely a premed inclination so far :]

 

[JackyLin]

OP: If your secondary essays are a concern of yours, apply to less schools.

I'd hate for anybody to wonder if you're lacking a clinical LOR b/c you were flakey or seemed disinterested in that arena, too.

Thank you guys for these advice also, I will make sure to address these weak spots as well.

 

[TunnuS]

Here's what I see: you have a great, great MCAT score. But, what happened with your grades? Up and down. Down and up. That last year, when you took 28 credits tells me you can be focused when you so desire, but that only seems to come in fits, not consistently.

But here's what I suggest: cut back on so many reaches. It's like you took your list straight out of some "top 20 medical school" list. Those also tend to be the research-heavy schools, but with only two years doing research, you look weak compared to your peers. Instead, find the schools that appeal based on their mission. (And yes, be careful about how you come across. it's probably easy to sound arrogant with a 42 MCAT, but that's not the whole picture.)

I agree 110%. But seriously, a 42 MCAT? I'm slightly jealous to say the least

 

[beto]

Your two mistakes are taking the MCAT a third time after getting a 33, and applying to very tough schools.

 

[JackyLin]

Your two mistakes are taking the MCAT a third time after getting a 33, and applying to very tough schools.

I'll take the blame for an unreasonable school list, but if I have not taken the MCAT, I would have less leverage (I would like to think 29->33->42 looks slightly better than 29->33), and the score would've expired in the middle of this cycle. Am I wrong to think that?