University of Toledo MSBS 2015-2016 (SMP)

[DrMidlife]

BTW I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but RFU isn't immune to these forces...

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[ZedsDed]

Temple's minimum GPA is still 3.4, no? It's basically a waitlist retention program.

Certainly not the case for the ACMS program. Though the average GPA for those admitted last year was a 3.55! Keep in mind that includes the veterans, URMs, and the like who have a 3.0 or so. According to this years' thread, it seems the majority of those admitted have a 3.6+.

The caveat is you must achieve a 3.5 in the program and I believe hit 70th percentile on the MCAT (if you haven't taken it already.)

 

[DrMidlife]

Or, the caveat is that you don't get into Temple without a GPA that says you're good for a 3.5/30. How many people in this thread would give their left eyeball for a chance at Temple's 3.5 minimum performance?

 

[ZedsDed]

Or, the caveat is that you don't get into Temple without a GPA that says you're good for a 3.5/30. How many people in this thread would give their left eyeball for a chance at Temple's 3.5 minimum performance?

This is true. I'd give both eyes and a leg. In case anyone's curious, the majority of students hit that 3.5 minimum. As DrMidlife said, this is no accident.

 

[Technorino]

There are a lot of internal politics and changes going on at UT that most of you are unaware of.

True this years 20 waitlisted deferred acceptees got shafted but they did get an "acceptance" into a med school that they didn't have before due to one reason or another.

True the adcoms sent out more acceptances in the normal applicant pool than usual. However there were talks of cutting down the acceptance % from such a high number and I guess those talks came to fruition. (most students were aware of these talks/rumors due to the rumor mill that is med school)

Technically, the ~65% acceptance still holds true and nowhere do they guarantee that ~65%.

The MSBS program itself is going through some administrative changes this year also so just wait and see if there are any big changes.

With all that being said, truly sorry for the most recent msbs class because this truly hurts such a great program (GOAT in my opinion) :/

 

[ZedsDed]

There are a lot of internal politics and changes going on at UT that most of you are unaware of.

True this years 20 waitlisted deferred acceptees got shafted but they did get an "acceptance" into a med school that they didn't have before due to one reason or another.

True the adcoms sent out more acceptances in the normal applicant pool than usual. However there were talks of cutting down the acceptance % from such a high number and I guess those talks came to fruition. (most students were aware of these talks/rumors due to the rumor mill that is med school)

Technically, the ~65% acceptance still holds true and nowhere do they guarantee that ~65%.

The MSBS program itself is going through some administrative changes this year also so just wait and see if there are any big changes.

With all that being said, truly sorry for the most recent msbs class because this truly hurts such a great program (GOAT in my opinion) :/

If administrators think they can maintain their reputation through such changes they have another thing coming (see EVMS.)

 

[DrMidlife]

Changing the program isn't disreputable.

Not being upfront and proactive about communicating changes in curriculum or class size or guaranteed interview to prospective students is disreputable. Sounds like Toledo is being fairly upfront and proactive to me.

The sense that an SMP entitles you to a host med school seat has never been a product you can buy, except at Temple. If you feel entitled to a med school seat, that's not an SMP problem.

Your obsession with getting an MD acceptance isn't shared by SMP administrators. They have a lot more to think about. They understand, much more clearly than the average SMP student, that the world will not fall apart in any way if a low GPA med school aspirant fails to get an MD acceptance during the SMP year.

Your time and money are buying a masters degree. Not a host med school seat. End of story.

 

[ZedsDed]

Changing the program isn't disreputable.

Not being upfront and proactive about communicating changes in curriculum or class size or guaranteed interview to prospective students is disreputable. Sounds like Toledo is being fairly upfront and proactive to me.

The sense that an SMP entitles you to a host med school seat has never been a product you can buy, except at Temple. If you feel entitled to a med school seat, that's not an SMP problem.

Your obsession with getting an MD acceptance isn't shared by SMP administrators. They have a lot more to think about. They understand, much more clearly than the average SMP student, that the world will not fall apart in any way if a low GPA med school aspirant fails to get an MD acceptance during the SMP year.

Your time and money are buying a masters degree. Not a host med school seat. End of story.

I agree with almost all of that. No one here is going through anything that painful for having to take a gap year after the program like many of the other smp grads.
I disagree that Toledo is being upfront, at least according to the current SMP students. Now I kind of hesitate to say this, as I am not currently in the program. But assuming that what has been reported is true... Promising the whole year that their will be enough seats for all of the students (assuming performance) and then turning around and shrugging that "**** happens" and "it's a competitive process" when the acceptance rate drops by 60% suddenly, as if it happened by accident, is disingenuous.
It's entirely possible that current SMP students are simply upset and not accurately describing Toledo's response. If so, apologies to the administrators.

 

[n1ght-b1rd]

Changing the program isn't disreputable.

Not being upfront and proactive about communicating changes in curriculum or class size or guaranteed interview to prospective students is disreputable. Sounds like Toledo is being fairly upfront and proactive to me.

The sense that an SMP entitles you to a host med school seat has never been a product you can buy, except at Temple. If you feel entitled to a med school seat, that's not an SMP problem.

Your obsession with getting an MD acceptance isn't shared by SMP administrators. They have a lot more to think about. They understand, much more clearly than the average SMP student, that the world will not fall apart in any way if a low GPA med school aspirant fails to get an MD acceptance during the SMP year.

Your time and money are buying a masters degree. Not a host med school seat. End of story.

I fully agree that entitlement is wrong, but it seems like Toledo greatly misled the 2014 entering class and the 2015 entering class, by flaunting the 80% linkage. If talks are going on to cut that percentage down, they should not be putting in a statement about the super high linkage from the past year in the program description:

"Historically, approximately 65% of our MSBS-MS Students are accepted into medical school at The University of Toledo. We do not track students that are accepted into other medical schools. Last year (2013-2014), 44 of 52 students who completed the program of study (84%) were accepted into the University of Toledo College of Medicine."

It is kind of like me putting down on AMCAS that I was an expert accordion player, and then when I am asked to play a song at an interview, I say that I never said that I am still an expert accordion player.

Because let's face it, the STRAIGHT linkage is the only thing that this program has going for it. If you take that away, people would happily flock to other programs; no one is dying to get a master's degree from Toledo.

Still, I am not throwing stones yet; I'm not a student at the program, and I don't know the full details of what is going on. It could also be possible that this year's class simply did not perform as well as last year's class.

 

[DrMidlife]

there is no straight linkage. a historical 65% is not a straight linkage. when 35% DON'T succeed that's no linkage. An applicant to this program can land in either pile without damage to the program's results or reputation. Not linkage.

i agree that the 84% year was flouted and is the equivalent of advertising, but as i'm sure you've heard-and-ignored in investment commercials, past performance does not guarantee future returns. Toledo's foolish to not mention this in the PDF. Dumb.

For sure, one of the breakdowns with Toledo and with EVMS is that the executives (deans) who force class sizes to increase and who emphasize MD program recruitment of OOS students are completely ignorant of the motivation and obsession of SMP students. Their job is to keep an underfunded low-tier health professions program financially viable in the context of massive federal and state defunding of education simultaneous with massive increases in operating costs (just health insurance and computing alone were unfathomable as recently as 2008). Student debt levels are about #12 on their list of things on fire, and MSBS grad satisfaction isn't in the top 20.

Which SMP applicants don't care about one bit. Which is no help at all for SMP applicants trying to make a decision. Which I fully understand.

Honestly, if I were an SMP applicant right now, with my sub-3.0-after-6-years-with-3.7-in-the-last-2 and my 31, I'd be looking at regular grad work with pubs instead of an SMP, and a do-or-die MCAT retake. It wouldn't take any longer, it would probably be just as effective in getting a home state MD acceptance, I'd save easily $150k overall, and it would be WAY more helpful for residency apps.

Sorry to jump all over this thread - I have no ties to Ohio or the Toledo program. Just perspective, too late to use for my own path to med school.

 

[ZedsDed]

Honestly, if I were an SMP applicant right now, with my sub-3.0-after-6-years-with-3.7-in-the-last-2 and my 31, I'd be looking at regular grad work with pubs instead of an SMP, and a do-or-die MCAT retake. It wouldn't take any longer, it would probably be just as effective in getting a home state MD acceptance, I'd save easily $150k overall, and it would be WAY more helpful for residency apps.

As a Ca applicant I wholeheartedly agree with you. Everyone I suggest this to looks at me like I'm an idiot. There are plenty of UC hard-science masters programs that are well respected by the UC medical schools. Then again, I have a decent 3.4ish GPA. I understand the impulse that sub-3.0s feel to do something big and dramatic, like get a 3.7+ in an SMP. As time goes on, and with news like the above, I wonder if this kind of masochism will pay off less and less.

 

[navynotnavajo]

So since so many of these posts had the caveat "but I'm not a student there so I can't say myself", I'm deciding to chime in.

I'm a current MSBS student at Toledo and was lucky enough to be one of the 10 getting in this fall. That said, admin DID NOT TELL US THIS WAS GOING DOWN. At all. As one of the above said, we were told at orientation that "there are 50 spots for all of you, it is yours to earn". Which turned out to be completely false. We were never told that this deferred admission business was a possibility, and were told by the current director of the program (who is retiring, btw, not sure if she'll be in charge for this incoming class), that "no one will ever be outright rejected. You will either be accepted or waitlisted." From the powerpoint presentation that the new assistant dean of admissions gave us a month ago, Toledo's acceptance rate has been rising for the past 5 years, and was at 84% last year. Then again, he did not have this position last year, and so as you can see there've been a lot of admin change-ups this year that may have caused this mess to happen. Rumor is an abnormal number of regular admissions people accepted Toledo this year, so that could also have been the culprit.

There is NO waitlist for current MSBS this year for entry into the medical school, as there was in past years. Many of this year's students who were straight-out rejected, not even deferred until 2016, had near-4.0 GPAs in the program. These are facts. I know these people, and they're my friends and it sucks.

So. Buyer beware, proceed with caution, new MSBS kids. Some people are meeting with the program director next week, so there might be some new information then, but not exactly sure if anything will change.

 

[n1ght-b1rd]

there is no straight linkage. a historical 65% is not a straight linkage. when 35% DON'T succeed that's no linkage. An applicant to this program can land in either pile without damage to the program's results or reputation. Not linkage.

i agree that the 84% year was flouted and is the equivalent of advertising, but as i'm sure you've heard-and-ignored in investment commercials, past performance does not guarantee future returns. Toledo's foolish to not mention this in the PDF. Dumb.

For sure, one of the breakdowns with Toledo and with EVMS is that the executives (deans) who force class sizes to increase and who emphasize MD program recruitment of OOS students are completely ignorant of the motivation and obsession of SMP students. Their job is to keep an underfunded low-tier health professions program financially viable in the context of massive federal and state defunding of education simultaneous with massive increases in operating costs (just health insurance and computing alone were unfathomable as recently as 2008). Student debt levels are about #12 on their list of things on fire, and MSBS grad satisfaction isn't in the top 20.

Which SMP applicants don't care about one bit. Which is no help at all for SMP applicants trying to make a decision. Which I fully understand.

Honestly, if I were an SMP applicant right now, with my sub-3.0-after-6-years-with-3.7-in-the-last-2 and my 31, I'd be looking at regular grad work with pubs instead of an SMP, and a do-or-die MCAT retake. It wouldn't take any longer, it would probably be just as effective in getting a home state MD acceptance, I'd save easily $150k overall, and it would be WAY more helpful for residency apps.

Sorry to jump all over this thread - I have no ties to Ohio or the Toledo program. Just perspective, too late to use for my own path to med school.

By straight linkage, I meant that students were led to believe that they had a decent shot at getting into Toledo's medical program without a glide year.

But yeah, maybe if Toledo included that little disclaimer about no guarantees, applicants would be a BIT more cautious about putting all their eggs in one basket.

I understand the financial aspects, but I think they lost a bit of credibility this year. If they really need this program going strong to rake in some extra money, well they need to keep it to a consistent standard. Maybe they should not have accepted so many from the MSBS program last year. Keeping the linkage rate somewhat consistent at 65% is better than jumping from 80% to 20% within two years. If the high fluctuations continue, people will not value this program for its linkage anymore, and over the next few years it will just morph into a less reputable version of Georgetown's program. And when that happens, the number of OOS applicants, aka the cash cows, applying and matriculating to this program has a high potential to drop.

At the end of the day, when money is exchanged, both parties have to hold up their end of the bargain - at least to some degree. And it seems like Toledo did not hold up their end of the bargain.

Again, I am not in this program, and I will not be in this program, so I have no personal vendetta against Toledo.

 

[ZedsDed]

By straight linkage, I meant that students were led to believe that they had a decent shot at getting into Toledo's medical program without a glide year.

But yeah, maybe if Toledo included that little disclaimer about no guarantees, applicants would be a BIT more cautious about putting all their eggs in one basket.

I understand the financial aspects, but I think they lost a bit of credibility this year. If they really need this program going strong to rake in some extra money, well they need to keep it to a consistent standard. Maybe they should not have accepted so many from the MSBS program last year. Keeping the linkage rate somewhat consistent at 65% is better than jumping from 80% to 20% within two years. If the high fluctuations continue, people will not value this program for its linkage anymore, and over the next few years it will just morph into a less reputable version of Georgetown's program. And when that happens, the number of OOS applicants, aka the cash cows, applying and matriculating to this program has a high potential to drop.

At the end of the day, when money is exchanged, both parties have to hold up their end of the bargain - at least to some degree. And it seems like Toledo did not hold up their end of the bargain.

Again, I am not in this program, and I will not be in this program, so I have no personal vendetta against Toledo.

I actually disagree somewhat. What Toledo did was very shady, but that does not excuse buyers for being reckless. "Putting all of your eggs in one basket," should never apply to an SMP. If students have performed well, put consideration into their OOS applications, and planned out a possible gap year, then they should be fine. 84%=/=100%

 

[n1ght-b1rd]

I actually disagree somewhat. What Toledo did was very shady, but that does not excuse buyers from recklessness. "Putting all of your eggs in one basket," should never apply to an SMP. If students have performed well, put consideration into their OOS applications, and planned out a possible gap year, then they should be fine.

Well you know what I mean, but let me clarify. People in Toledo's MSBS program would usually put at least 65% of their eggs in one basket. I am guessing people chose this program because they thought it would give them an edge on getting into Toledo, if they could not get in anywhere else within the same year. And if that advertised edge is not there, despite the fact that the students did well in the program, that fault is on Toledo, not on the students.

Though you do have a point; that glide year is a reality for many students in SMPs, so a backup plan is always warranted. But 80% of this year's class resorting to that backup plan is a bit drastic in my opinion.

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

I go to Toledo, so accuse me of defending them all you want, but some thoughts:

Sounds like we've got ourselves a classic oversold airline flight situation here. For those unaware, every airline overbooks flights because inevitably people cancel/don't show. Every now and then everybody shows up and the airline has to bump people (with a nice compensation). People get angry because it isn't something airlines advertise, but that's the skids there's nothing illegal or (in my opinion) unethical about it.

From what I've heard from it sounds like Toledo had fewer than expected accepted-students decline their acceptance. For better for worse, the only place to trim the list is the MSBS spots. Before we go crazy on the conspiracy horn consider that this flux is affected by the movement of admissions at every other medical school. They accepted who they could, and offered the next best thing to the others. That pretty much brings us to the historical %age of acceptances.

There's been a lot of complacency lately that being MSBS = acceptance to the next medical class. It's sucky for the people who went through it, but this is a good reminder that it doesn't. If this sets a trend then yeah the new guy clearly isn't as MSBS friendly as Dr. Bennett Clarke and they should be more clear about new policies. Right now it's an unlucky statistical variation of normal practices nothing more nothing less.

 

[benjaminl1nus]

I ended up not completing my application for this program. I feel like this is an awesome program, with demonstrated linkage. But, there was so little information online. Also, the application online was confusing and inconvenient.

Good luck to those who applied and are looking to get into med school!

Future people looking for SMPs...I suggest looking at programs with the longest history of getting people into med school. I ended up getting in to 2 top SMPs, but chose Georgetown due to its 40 year record. Due to the lack of info about Toledo's program (there is seriously only ONE document online that talks about this program), I decided not to complete my application and am happy I did so.

 

[becomedocordietryin]

My personal thoughts: I wouldn't mind being deferred... You can do anything you want for a whole year like TRAVEL THE WORLD! You can go on that new cruise that takes you around the world, you can get married and spend a 1 year honeymoon with your spouse, or you can find a good job with your MS degree and take a big chunk out of the debt you'll have when you come out of medical school. You can do all this and have a medical school seat waiting for you when you get back. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. I doubt you'll get another opportunity like this until you retire.

 

[ZedsDed]

Sounds like we've got ourselves a classic oversold airline flight situation here. For those unaware, every airline overbooks flights because inevitably people cancel/don't show. Every now and then everybody shows up and the airline has to bump people (with a nice compensation). People get angry because it isn't something airlines advertise, but that's the skids there's nothing illegal or (in my opinion) unethical about it.

This analogy only works if the program went from 80% back down to 64%, instead it plummeted to 20%. People are angry because they advertised one thing, did something else, and then offered no explanation. That shows a lack of interest on their part, and will probably result in future applicants being more skeptical about taking them at their word. Hence, argus saying they ruined their reputation.

They accepted who they could, and offered the next best thing to the others. That pretty much brings us to the historical %age of acceptances.

I don't know if I would call 45% the "historical" %age of acceptances, especially when only 18% are matriculating next year.

From what I've heard from it sounds like Toledo had fewer than expected accepted-students decline their acceptance. For better for worse, the only place to trim the list is the MSBS spots. Before we go crazy on the conspiracy horn consider that this flux is affected by the movement of admissions at every other medical school.

That's all understandable, and it would've probably been more acceptable had they offered that explanation. But they didn't offer that explanation, in fact they offered no explanation beyond saying "it's a competitive process" and that "there are no guarantees"; again, according to what the current students are saying. What you are doing is justifying their decisions, which is reasonable. What they are doing is denying responsibility, pretending that all of this happened with only their passive participation. In fact, Toledo promised promised promised throughout the year that their would be enough seats. So, of course people will smirk in the future if/when they start trying to promise historical results again. Smart applicants go into programs that have a long, unwavering history of success. Smart applicants will look at Toledo with a skeptical eye in the future, as they have lost credibility.

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

That's all understandable, and it would've probably been more acceptable had they offered that explanation. But they didn't offer that explanation

See that's tough because what I know is from current MSBS students. So I'm just basing what I say off what they know. And like I said before I wouldn't say they've lost credibility until it turns out to be a trend. It had been the exact opposite trend until this year.

 

[benjaminl1nus]

does anybody know the status of the other applicants who were rejected? i'm sure they applied to other med schools, any good news on those fronts?

regardless, i truly believe that the students who did well this year and still got rejected have a fantastic chance next cycle. The SMP route, more often than not, is a process that requires a gap year.

 

[ZedsDed]

See that's tough because what I know is from current MSBS students. So I'm just basing what I say off what they know. And like I said before I wouldn't say they've lost credibility until it turns out to be a trend. It had been the exact opposite trend until this year.

In my opinion, smart applicants will avoid Toledo's program. Even if this turns out to be an anomaly (which I doubt), why should risk-averse applicants invest thousands and move across the country for a program that cannot have consistent results? Especially when there are so many other programs that have great results every year (ala GT.) If Toledo wants to start tracking where else there grads into, and if they want to publish those stats, and if those stats are impressive, then we have something to talk about. It will take a few years to establish a pattern that is not subject to the whims of impulsive administrators. Until then, it is too risky IMO.

 

[Flashboy11]

I don't think we should all jump to conclusions here about what is going on with the program...but lets keep this thread about people trying to get into MSBS this year...nonetheless it is up to the student to go to the program and perform their best and prove to the medical school that they can perform at the med school level and should be accepted....and i think the linkage rate from this year's class will probably be around 50 percent...after all getting accepted to medical school is a competitive process.

On the other hand, if you don't trust UT and are not happy with the lowered linkage rate, I suggest you probably not attend and allow other students who need to go the program to bolster their application to get into medical schools

 

[C02232934]

.

 

[casualrunner001]

In my opinion, smart applicants will avoid Toledo's program. Even if this turns out to be an anomaly (which I doubt), why should risk-averse applicants invest thousands and move across the country for a program that cannot have consistent results? Especially when there are so many other programs that have great results every year (ala GT.) If Toledo wants to start tracking where else there grads into, and if they want to publish those stats, and if those stats are impressive, then we have something to talk about. It will take a few years to establish a pattern that is not subject to the whims of impulsive administrators. Until then, it is too risky IMO.

disclaimer: I didn't attend toledo's msbs.

I don't agree with this. Their pamphlet from last year stated that the historical acceptance was was around 65%. The 85% for 2013-2014 could have just been an anomaly.
10 acceptances+15-20 deferred guaranteed acceptances out of ~52 students (2013-2014's size) is 58-67%, which is close to 65%. Correction: it's actually 48-58%, which is a bit less than 65%. Students weren't notified about the deferrals ahead of time probably because the admin wasn't expecting it (less people from regular pool turning down acceptances was out of the admin's control). Since increasing the class size was not an option, they did the next best thing by giving out deferrals. I actually think that rejecting everyone else as opposed to waitlisting is being straightforward because based on the size limitations, waitlisting when no spots are available would be giving false hope. I'm not getting a "greedy admin" vibe here.

Based on my experience at the smp I went to, the admin puts a lot of thought into its decisions, especially regarding public opinion of the program. For example, whatever complaints about unclear communication from the previous year's class was definitely addressed during mine.

My prediction is that toledo msbs's success rate for next year will still be 50-60% because the program would want to keep up its reputation. They would adjust for the deferred spots by accepting fewer from the regular pool. That's not to say that their estimate wouldn't be off again, but I would imagine that the committee would prefer not to give out deferred spots year after year.

 

[ZedsDed]

disclaimer: I didn't attend toledo's msbs.

I don't agree with this. Their pamphlet from last year stated that the historical acceptance was was around 65%. The 85% for 2013-2014 could have just been an anomaly.
10 acceptances+15-20 deferred guaranteed acceptances out of ~52 students (2013-2014's size) is 58-67%, which is close to 65%. Students weren't notified about the deferrals ahead of time probably because the admin wasn't expecting it (less people from regular pool turning down acceptances was out of the admin's control). Since increasing the class size was not an option, they did the next best thing by giving out deferrals. I actually think that rejecting everyone else as opposed to waitlisting is being straightforward because based on the size limitations, waitlisting when no spots are available would be giving false hope. I'm not getting a "greedy admin" vibe here.

Based on my experience at the smp I went to, the admin puts a lot of thought into its decisions, especially regarding public opinion of the program. For example, whatever complaints about unclear communication from the previous year's class was definitely addressed during mine.

My prediction is that toledo msbs's success rate for next year will still be 50-60% because the program would want to keep up its reputation. They would adjust for the deferred spots by accepting fewer from the regular pool. That's not to say that their estimate wouldn't be off again, but I would imagine that the committee would prefer not to give out deferred spots year after year.

You're about 10% off there, but I see your point.

I don't really see where we disagree, minus the acceptance rate. I don't really think the admins are being malicious, and I can't really speak towards why they did what they did. All I can say is that it was handled sloppily, it comes across as careless, they didn't make much of an attempt to explain the situation to their current students (they still have time to remedy this I suppose), and it will probably hurt their reputation. As you said, it is up to Toledo to create a proper public image. The conclusions that myself and others are coming to are based off of the information that is available. If Toledo believes that these conclusions are false or unfair, they are welcome to address them.

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

In my opinion, smart applicants will avoid Toledo's program. Even if this turns out to be an anomaly (which I doubt), why should risk-averse applicants invest thousands and move across the country for a program that cannot have consistent results? Especially when there are so many other programs that have great results every year (ala GT.) If Toledo wants to start tracking where else there grads into, and if they want to publish those stats, and if those stats are impressive, then we have something to talk about. It will take a few years to establish a pattern that is not subject to the whims of impulsive administrators. Until then, it is too risky IMO.

yeah I mean I didn't go through MSBS or anything like that so I never really looked into these things. I'll take your word on it. Just saying it's historically been a good option (especially to Toledoans) and people need to slow their roll before declaring the sky has fallen.

Definitely agree (from what we've heard) it could have been handled better. Way, way better.

 

[Flashboy11]

This is a question for former MSBS students out there....Is it possible to take the MCAT during the MSBS year if necessary?.....Do people take it in between blocks 1 and 3?

 

[navynotnavajo]

This is a question for former MSBS students out there....Is it possible to take the MCAT during the MSBS year if necessary?.....Do people take it in between blocks 1 and 3?

Current MSBS here: I can only speak from what we were told during orientation last August, but what the program director told us was not to worry about retaking the MCAT during the MSBS year. No one this year retook the MCAT during the program. According to UT's pdf with info on MSBS (https://www.utoledo.edu/med/grad/pdfs/msbs info 2015.pdf), you need to have taken the MCAT before applying. From the students accepted and deferred this year, the scores I know of ranged from upper 20s to low 30s, including multiple retakes.

 

[Flashboy11]

Current MSBS here: I can only speak from what we were told during orientation last August, but what the program director told us was not to worry about retaking the MCAT during the MSBS year. No one this year retook the MCAT during the program. According to UT's pdf with info on MSBS (https://www.utoledo.edu/med/grad/pdfs/msbs info 2015.pdf), you need to have taken the MCAT before applying. From the students accepted and deferred this year, the scores I know of ranged from upper 20s to low 30s, including multiple retakes.

I know that...I have already taken the MCAT....what I meant was that if someone gets into MSBS and wants to retake the MCAT to score higher.

 

[bustdakap]

Does anybody have a link or have any knowledge/opinons comparing Toledo's MSBS program and UC's SMP in Medical Physiology? I feel like Toledo has had a higher linkage but am unsure with all of the pending administrative changes. UC seems to have better reviews and a better place to live but they don't seem to verify any linkage with the UC's school of medicine.

I've been accepted to UC's Masters program and I believe my stats are competitive for the Toledo program (3.47 GPA with 4.0 senior year, 36 MCAT, 2000 hrs research, 300+ hrs volunteering, 60+ hrs shadowing, strong LORs). I applied late last cycle and was only offered 2 interviews and 2 waitlists and will be reapplying soon for this cycle.

I am also considering not doing a SMP and saving some cash and reapplying this upcoming cycle with a double major (Biochemistry and Neuroscience) where as last cycle I applied with a Biochemistry major and Neuroscience minor. Any thoughts on this approach? I live near Columbus and would prefer to go to OSUCOM.

Thanks for your help in advance...

 

[ZedsDed]

Does anybody have a link or have any knowledge/opinons comparing Toledo's MSBS program and UC's SMP in Medical Physiology? I feel like Toledo has had a higher linkage but am unsure with all of the pending administrative changes. UC seems to have better reviews and a better place to live but they don't seem to verify any linkage with the UC's school of medicine.

I've been accepted to UC's Masters program and I believe my stats are competitive for the Toledo program (3.47 GPA with 4.0 senior year, 36 MCAT, 2000 hrs research, 300+ hrs volunteering, 60+ hrs shadowing, strong LORs). I applied late last cycle and was only offered 2 interviews and 2 waitlists and will be reapplying soon for this cycle.

I am also considering not doing a SMP and saving some cash and reapplying this upcoming cycle with a double major (Biochemistry and Neuroscience) where as last cycle I applied with a Biochemistry major and Neuroscience minor. Any thoughts on this approach? I live near Columbus and would prefer to go to OSUCOM.

Thanks for your help in advance...

Recommend you create a thread in the postbacc forum

 

[bustdakap]

Recommend you create a thread in the postbacc forum

Thanks for your insight...

 

[ZedsDed]

Thanks for your insight...

I didn't say it to be annoying. You will get a lot more help from a lot more members there. My opinion on this program is expressed above. I think UC has a great program.

 

[ZedsDed]

Does anybody have a link or have any knowledge/opinons comparing Toledo's MSBS program and UC's SMP in Medical Physiology?

If you want to find old threads where this is debated, please use the search bar.

 

[Flashboy11]

I believe this week they will send another cycle of acceptances out....everyone post for any new acceptances!

 

[FaithE7]

Will do, fingers crossed!

 

[Wadsworth]

The only thing I would like to add is that this program will not help you if you already aren't a good canidate. They ranked us by GPA but then they also took in account our MCAT, undergrad GPA, interview scores, and medical school application. Like someone else already pointed out there were students who did well in this program with high GPAs (3.5-3.8 range) who were outright rejected because of something else in their application. It is in no means a "fresh start" and doing well in this program is a box to check, it will not make up for anything you are lacking. Especially in the research department- you are just starting your research when they conduct interviews and the adcom meets so it doesn't have any impact on your app and wont make up for past lack of research.

 

[ZedsDed]

The only thing I would like to add is that this program will not help you if you already aren't a good canidate. They ranked us by GPA but then they also took in account our MCAT, undergrad GPA, interview scores, and medical school application. Like someone else already pointed out there were students who did well in this program with high GPAs (3.5-3.8 range) who were outright rejected because of something else in their application. It is in no means a "fresh start" and doing well in this program is a box to check, it will not make up for anything you are lacking. Especially in the research department- you are just starting your research when they conduct interviews and the adcom meets so it doesn't have any impact on your app and wont make up for past lack of research.

To be fair, this is true for any SMP. The ONLY thing an SMP "helps" (without actually raising it) is uGPA, and even then only to a limited extent. Pre-meds often refuse to accept this, thinking that their 28 won't be a problem come application time. Standardized test-taking skills are a must in this field.

 

[DothMotherKnow]

I agree with almost all of that. No one here is going through anything that painful for having to take a gap year after the program like many of the other smp grads.
I disagree that Toledo is being upfront, at least according to the current SMP students. Now I kind of hesitate to say this, as I am not currently in the program. But assuming that what has been reported is true... Promising the whole year that their will be enough seats for all of the students (assuming performance) and then turning around and shrugging that "**** happens" and "it's a competitive process" when the acceptance rate drops by 60% suddenly, as if it happened by accident, is disingenuous.
It's entirely possible that current SMP students are simply upset and not accurately describing Toledo's response. If so, apologies to the administrators.

I am a current MSBS student and wanted to confirm that we are not "simply upset and not accurately describing Toledo's response" (Not attacking you, ZedsDed. I know you are not sure what is actually going on with the program and just trying to look at the situation from all viewpoints). I came here to let future applicants know that what has happened is true... and because of that, I've spoken to CBC and she has confirmed that the program is not sending out any more acceptances for the incoming class until this situation has been dealt with.
No SMP gives a complete "clean slate" but this program, historically, came pretty close. We were told that if we were accepted, nothing in our past could hold us back, as long as we did well in the program. Because the adcom gave away the spots that were reserved for us, they were forced to rank us (Which they also said they would never do), and cast away individuals that were doing well in the program (Getting all A's, beating the M1 median test scores) because of something from their past. I am extremely lucky, and thankful that I'm one of the students accepted into their medical school. But because of this very real situation, the accepted individuals can't be happy because their friends have been rejected. Everyone in this program has "a past" (Low GPA, low MCAT, etc.) that has kept them from receiving an acceptance from medical school. It isn't fair that many individuals in our class spent so much money (50,000+ for OOS) and a year of time, worked extremely hard, and were rejected. I'm sure CBC does not want to continue accepting individuals until she knows she's not giving blank promises. I'm not sure how she will continue to handle this situation (Already 20 spots for next year's medical class have been given to "deferred" MSBS students)...

 

[ZedsDed]

I am a current MSBS student and wanted to confirm that we are not "simply upset and not accurately describing Toledo's response" (Not attacking you, ZedsDed. I know you are not sure what is actually going on with the program and just trying to look at the situation from all viewpoints). I came here to let future applicants know that what has happened is true... and because of that, I've spoken to CBC and she has confirmed that the program is not sending out any more acceptances for the incoming class until this situation has been dealt with.
No SMP gives a complete "clean slate" but this program, historically, came pretty close. We were told that if we were accepted, nothing in our past could hold us back, as long as we did well in the program. Because the adcom gave away the spots that were reserved for us, they were forced to rank us (Which they also said they would never do), and cast away individuals that were doing well in the program (Getting all A's, beating the M1 median test scores) because of something from their past. I am extremely lucky, and thankful that I'm one of the students accepted into their medical school. But because of this very real situation, the accepted individuals can't be happy because their friends have been rejected. Everyone in this program has "a past" (Low GPA, low MCAT, etc.) that has kept them from receiving an acceptance from medical school. It isn't fair that many individuals in our class spent so much money (50,000+ for OOS) and a year of time, worked extremely hard, and were rejected. I'm sure CBC does not want to continue accepting individuals until she knows she's not giving blank promises. I'm not sure how she will continue to handle this situation (Already 20 spots for next year's medical class have been given to "deferred" MSBS students)...

It's admirable of them to want their word to mean something. A lesser program would've just continued to admit applicants with empty promises. If anybody is upset that they may not get an acceptance, think about how upset you would've been 50k later without a real shot at the only acceptance that matters.

 

[X3NA]

I got an e-mail today regarding course numbers, and there are only 16 students on the list. And since no more acceptances are going out, I wonder if the strategy this year is to simply cut down the class size drastically. This way, if they accept a little over 10 students from MSBS to begin at UTCOM in 2016, they can still maintain that high linkage.

Just a theory.

 

[MBH0421]

I got an e-mail today regarding course numbers, and there are only 16 students on the list. And since no more acceptances are going out, I wonder if the strategy this year is to simply cut down the class size drastically. This way, if they accept a little over 10 students from MSBS to begin at UTCOM in 2016, they can still maintain that high linkage.

Just a theory.

How do you know no more acceptances are being sent out...?

 

[X3NA]

How do you know no more acceptances are being sent out...?

Isn't that what @DothMotherKnow said? Maybe I misunderstood lol.

 

[ZedsDed]

How do you know no more acceptances are being sent out...?

I am a current MSBS student...I came here to let future applicants know that what has happened is true... and because of that, I've spoken to CBC and she has confirmed that the program is not sending out any more acceptances for the incoming class until this situation has been dealt with.

 

[MBH0421]

Oh yes, at least for now, until things are figured out.

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[ZedsDed]

Oh yes, at least for now, until things are figured out.

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What does that mean though? Unless UTCOM plans on reversing the rejections they sent out, I don't see how the situation could change.

 

[MBH0421]

I'm just going based off of what was said, "until this situation has been dealt with". They could very well be done accepting people - but if that's the case, what is left to be "dealt with?"

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[ZedsDed]

I'm just going based off of what was said, "until this situation has been dealt with". They could very well be done accepting people - but if that's the case, what is left to be "dealt with?"

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I guess we'll find out.

 

[Flashboy11]

CBC has told me that she is making decisions on Friday....she will be making more decisions.