University of Sydney Questions

[scilleroo]

Hello!

This post is for anyone who knows about the University of Sydney Grad-Entry Medical Program. If you are a current student, I am most interested in your viewpoints. I am an international student (American citizen from the USA) who was just accepted into the University of Sydney. I have a range of questions and would appreciate perspective:

-What do you think makes the University of Sydney program strong? What area most needs improvement? (In other words, what is not as strong)

-How often do you have examinations? What are they typically like?

-What determines which students (local and international students) get internship spots in Australia (in the big cities)? Performance during the 3rd and 4th year? Recommendations? PR status (or lack thereof?)

-Does U Syd have an anatomy course (with lab)? How long and thorough is it?

-Which courses do you think are the strongest and which the weakest?

-Do you do research in addition to your commitment as a student? If so, would you mind sharing a few words about it?

-Why isn?t there a required USMLE type exam for Australian graduates? How do they apportion internship and then residency placement, then?

-Why are Australian residencies particularly long (just curious if there is a certain philosophy that makes it longer)?

-What is the official difference between the MBBS degree and the MD degree? If you graduate from an Australian school and come back to the US to do your residency, what difference does the degree you earn have? (Would you need to apply to get an MD? I apologize if I sound ignorant about this, but it is unclear to me.) Is this degree difference something to be concerned about?

-Lastly, how many Americans return to the US for residencies and how many stay in Australia from year to year? Know any success stories or struggling stories?

-What do you think of the research opportunities (especially in clinical research, and do med students pursue research in large numbers esp. since they are probably quite busy?)

Thank you, so much! If you can answer a few or all of these questions, I?d appreciate all the perspective I can get.

For any Americans studying at U of Syd, could you let me know who you are? Thanks to all!

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[DocVeev]

Congrats on getting accepted to USyd.
I am still waiting to hear back from USyd. I have already been accepted to UQ. I guess either way I am heading over to Australia. (I am from Canada)

I reckon that you would get the answers to these questions from a different forum (yes there are forums outside of SDN). It is called the AusMedStudent Forum. http://www.ausmedstudent.com

I know that I can answer the following question for you:

-What is the official difference between the MBBS degree and the MD degree? If you graduate from an Australian school and come back to the US to do your residency, what difference does the degree you earn have? (Would you need to apply to get an MD? I apologize if I sound ignorant about this, but it is unclear to me.) Is this degree difference something to be concerned about?

There is no difference between an MBBS and an MD. Both are giving to those that have successful completed a undergraduate programme in medicine (medicine being taught in the US/Canada/UK/Australia everywhere is considered to be an undergrad programme). Some people may argue that there is a difference but the difference is only in the name. That being said, you would not need to apply to get an MD.

Good luck in getting the answers to your queries.

 

[scilleroo]

Hi DocVeev,

Thanks for the reply and congrats to you on UQ! I hear it is beautiful there and there are many very friendly and helpful folks.

Thanks also for offering an answer. I am slightly confused by your answer, though. I have always understood the medical degree in the U.S. to be a professional, graduate degree-it is of doctorate level (like a Ph.D.) while a bachelor's degree is an undergraduate degree. Am I misunderstanding? I think I'm just trying to sort out how the graduate entry program gives an undergraduate bachelor in medicine and bachelor in surgery.

Thank you.

 

[JBA]

Both MBBS and MD are professional degrees. Medicine is officially still an undergraduated degree. Graduate training in med is considered to be your residnecy training. MBBS=MD. Any doctor who has received MBBS from England, Australia, India etc. will go by MD if they practice in the US. Don't worry too much about it.....

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

this is interesting.

http://www.usyd.edu.au/research/news/2004/oct/29_rhodes.shtml Go Sydney!

 

[driedcaribou]

Please excuse the bad grammar ahead of time.
I'm writing in point form because I have an exam tomorrow.
I'm writing based on what I know which could be wrong.

-What do you think makes the University of Sydney program strong? What area most needs improvement? (In other words, what is not as strong)

Anatomy, pharmacology and better 'structure' to their lectures.

-How often do you have examinations? What are they typically like?

4 exams in the first 2 years. Cummulative. Essay type and multiple choice.
First 3 don't 'count'. Last one does.

-What determines which students (local and international students) get internship spots in Australia (in the big cities)? Performance during the 3rd and 4th year? Recommendations? PR status (or lack thereof?)

Not sure. Policy changes frequently.
Pass/fail marking system in 3rd and 4th year.

-Does U Syd have an anatomy course (with lab)? How long and thorough is it?

Yes. Prosections. Mostly self-directed. Limited time in lab. Overall weak point in course.

-Which courses do you think are the strongest and which the weakest?

They don't really have 'courses' like a traditional school in North America would.
Strength of program is relative flexibility in time for the first 2 years because a lot of learning is self-directed.
Clinical aspect of teaching is very strong.

-Do you do research in addition to your commitment as a student? If so, would you mind sharing a few words about it?

I'm not doing it but there are several in the class who are doing a Ph.D concurrently with the course- as part of the course and at least one person doing it under a seperate institution.

-Why isn?t there a required USMLE type exam for Australian graduates? How do they apportion internship and then residency placement, then?

Why should they?
Internship is supposed to be a 'random' draw. But you don't specialize yet.
You write entrance exams to get into your specialty training after 2-3 years after you graduate.

-Why are Australian residencies particularly long (just curious if there is a certain philosophy that makes it longer)?

They don't have long working hours like the North American residencies do.
Also, there's more time for people to decide what they want to do.
Before, programs were 6 year straight from high school so grads were typically younger anyways.

-What is the official difference between the MBBS degree and the MD degree? If you graduate from an Australian school and come back to the US to do your residency, what difference does the degree you earn have? (Would you need to apply to get an MD? I apologize if I sound ignorant about this, but it is unclear to me.) Is this degree difference something to be concerned about?

Not ignorant at all.
The MD in North America is not a graduate degree. It's a misnomer. It's an undergraduate degree. It's quite clear on every Canadian University website-not as clear for US University websites. The MD designation outside of North America is awarded after one receives a Ph.D and does further work in the area. The MBBS is = to the MD - it just looks different and confuses people outside of North America.
MD in North America is more of a professional degree. I'm quite sure the designation came as a result of North American schools switching to a graduate entry program which many schools around the world are now changing to.

-Lastly, how many Americans return to the US for residencies and how many stay in Australia from year to year? Know any success stories or struggling stories?

I don't know any hard numbers but it seems like the majority return home or at least intend to.
If you work hard, impress people during your rotations in the US, have a strong resume and decent USMLE scores, I wouldn't worry.
For the really competitive specialties though.. I'd worry.
If you see yourself gunning for Derm and Rads, you might be setting yourself up for disappointment if you go to USyd.

-What do you think of the research opportunities (especially in clinical research, and do med students pursue research in large numbers esp. since they are probably quite busy?)

I think most people don't bother because they'd rather party..
But there are a lot of research opportunites around here if you're willing to spend the time.
There are many opportunities off campus as well because the University of Sydney is affiliated with many institutions in the area so you can pretty much find whatever suits your fancy as long as you can find transport.

Thank you, so much! If you can answer a few or all of these questions, I?d appreciate all the perspective I can get.

For any Americans studying at U of Syd, could you let me know who you are? Thanks to all!

I'm not American- sorry.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Yes. Prosections. Mostly self-directed. Limited time in lab. Overall weak point in course.

I think party our faculty was too cheap to pay for some of the dental faculty's salaries.. So we basically just rip off the med school completing the entire first two years with the med students as well our dental coursework (pre-clinical and clinical), taking the same coursework and the same exams till 3rd year when we fully separate from one another. One difference with the dental program though is that not only do we do the anatomy prosections that the meds get, but also get a full gross anatomy disection lab course that for some reason 'unfortunantly' the medical students don't have. I have found our anatomy course pretty extensive and very helpful. I'm sure if the you were in the med course and really wanted to take an extra disection course you would probably be able to, probably just a matter of talking to the faculty about it.

This would be helpful for any med students who didn't previously complete the bachelor of med sci degree (which I believe includes a gross disection lab)

 

[driedcaribou]

So we basically just rip off the med school completing the entire first two years with the med students as well our dental coursework (pre-clinical and clinical),

Many programs in North America have the dental students take same coursework during the first two years with medical students.

I'm sure if the you were in the med course and really wanted to take an extra disection course you would probably be able to, probably just a matter of talking to the faculty about it.

Not enough funding to allow that. Also, too many students in Medicine compared to Dentistry.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Many programs in North America have the dental students take same coursework during the first two years with medical students..

True, I was just being a bit sarcastic. I also hear that pretty much all of our first two years tuition goes to the med faculty as well. Which is reasonable I suppose.

Not enough funding to allow that. Also, too many students in Medicine compared to Dentistry.

True. I wasn't saying that they could allow everyone to do it. Just if 1 or 2 of the meds was dead set on disecting, it is probably possible to arrange something. Might include paying more fees for an additional class. But nothings impossible.

 

[pitman]

When I interviewed at USyd a little more than a year ago, the head of Anatomy told me the med school wasn't willing to pay anatomy (which is a distinct, and prestigious department) for the bodies. He made it sound purely like a cost-cutting measure. Anat admin doesn't get along well with the med school.

I think party our faculty was too cheap to pay for some of the dental faculty's salaries.. So we basically just rip off the med school completing the entire first two years with the med students as well our dental coursework (pre-clinical and clinical), taking the same coursework and the same exams till 3rd year when we fully separate from one another. One difference with the dental program though is that not only do we do the anatomy prosections that the meds get, but also get a full gross anatomy disection lab course that for some reason 'unfortunantly' the medical students don't have. I have found our anatomy course pretty extensive and very helpful. I'm sure if the you were in the med course and really wanted to take an extra disection course you would probably be able to, probably just a matter of talking to the faculty about it.

This would be helpful for any med students who didn't previously complete the bachelor of med sci degree (which I believe includes a gross disection lab)