UIC or Northwestern? please comment!

[hopingtobePT]

Just wanted to get some advice on what school you'd pick if you were accepted to both programs.

(I'm currently accepted to neither: supposed to hear from NU in dec and UIC in jan. Please no comments on this, i'm just creating a hypothetical situation). Here is some info I've gathered from my visits, as well as their websites.
______________________________________________
Northwestern:
Length: 2.6 years
Reputation: strong nationwide
Board Pass Rate: 100%
Competition: non competitive (students work together, no ranking of students in the class)

Clincials: 300 sites across the country

Cost: 88k (private)

My visit: loved the facility, location, and professors. Really like that they have a research portion of the curriculum and the trimester system. Strong sense of 'this is right'.

__________________________________
UIC:
Length: 3 years
Reputation: strong in chicago
Board Pass Rate: 'above national avg'. (nat avg=88%)

Competition: competitive-- better rank in class, better clinical choice

Clinicals: .125 sites.
Cost: 61 k (in-state)

My visit: the school was 'nice', kind of outdated feeling. There was a new portion of the building that was promising. Students seemed relatively happy, but said the semesters felt really long. For some reason I didn't have the overwhelming desire to be there that I had with NU.

___________________________________

*So many people say pick the cheaper program hands down. Please evaluate on some other criteria other than cost. I think if I was accepted to both, I'd be inclined to go with NU. But my biggest fear is making a mistake and regretting it. Just looking for feedback. thank you!

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[jesspt]

But my biggest fear is making a mistake and regretting it

Generally most schools prepare you well to take the boards, so, with all things being relatively equal, I'd choose the cheaper school based on the fact that your earning potential really doesn't differ based on where you went to school.

In regards to looking at which program to choose from a vantage point other than strictly cost, you might want to consider the clinical setting you think you want to practice in post-graduation. UIC offers a post-graduate fellowship program in Orthopaedic Manual Therapy, which is directed by one of their faculty memebers and several other faculty memebers serve as faculty for the fellowship. That means that you're likely to get good exposure to manual therapy during your didactic education which could benefit you if you want to practice in outpatient orthopaedics. I'm not sure abuot that quality of the neurological, pediatric or geriatric aspects to their curriculum.

Essentially, I think you might want to start comparing the aspect of the curriculum that pertains to the area you want to practice in for both schools. Look at the research the faculty conducts and whether it interests you.

And then realize that you're only in PT school for three years. And, from my experience, PTs tend to regret the debt they incurred to get their education more than anything else they experienced during PT school. $27,000 is a pretty big chunk of change. If you think you'll get a good education in the area of PT that you want to practice in and will be well prepared to pass the NPTE, three years is a relativley short period of time compared to the many years it may take to pay back that extra money for which you may have had to take out a loan.

 

[DancerFutureDPT]

OP, I've been toying with the same choices...fortunately I've already heard from NU, and I'm waiting on hearing from UIC (as you said, nothing will be known before Jan - I know a PT who is married to someone in admissions there and she confirmed they are only now starting to look at apps).

One thing in your info that is incorrect - starting with either the 08 or 09 entering class, NU is now a full 3 years (start in Aug graduate in May, not graduate in Dec). They have added another clinical to the requirement, which is why it's now longer. This will also impact the tuition, but not dramatically - the third year tuition is considerably less than year 1 and 2.

From current NU students and recent grads, I've heard their "neuro" rep is more based on the areas of research from the professors, not necessarily the direction of the education. I also think they emphasize it a bit more than other schools do, but not at the expense of other courses - that's one of the great things about the trimester system. I worked with a PT who graduated from NU this past December, and she now works in outpatient ortho - her last clinical was working in NYC on Broadway with the dancers there (I would love that). I asked her about the neuro thing, and she said they teach you that but she didn't feel underprepared in any topic - she felt like she would be just as ready to work in ortho, inpatient, or anything else as with neuro.

UIC does have the ortho fellowship, but it's post-grad. If that's what you're interested in, there's no reason you can't apply even if you go someplace else. Plus, it's my understanding most people have to work for a few years prior to doing a fellowship.

One of my high school friends had to make this decision last year, and chose UIC. For her part of it was the cost, but she had been told by her former employer that she would hire her right after graduation from UIC, but not necessarily from NU - something about the manual program at UIC being a bit better than at NU. I'm not sure how true this is, but that's what she told me.

As for the cost - if you're going to work inpatient at a big hospital, or outpatient ortho in a corporate clinic, you'll get paid the same amount whether you graduate from NU, UIC, or some random small PT school (or at least there won't be a huge discrepancy). If cost is a major issue, don't spend your money for the big name education if you'll get a comparable experience (board passage rate, classes, clinicals) at a public school.

For me, a HUGE selling point in NU's favor is the trimesters...I went to NU for undergrad, and I didn't know it was on the quarter system (fall, winter, spring, summer - basically trimesters since no one did summer) until I was there. I was freaked out at first - 10 weeks to learn a boatload of material - but I loved it. I have a short attention span so when I would usually start getting antsy and ready to move on, it was finals week. I'm taking a few prereq courses in community college right now, and by week 10 I had to take a break and skip a few classes - I still had 8 weeks of the same material left and I was so over it. (Granted, it's also super basic stuff, so I'm sitting there bored out of my mind because I know it - some of the classes are great and I wish they wouldn't end, but most are pretty easy). Honestly, I am much better suited for the quarter system than I am for semesters. Although in PT school I may want the extra time to learn things, but I find myself much better at managing my time and staying on top of things (and interested in the class) when I have shortened time to do it in - I much rather wish a class wasn't ending at the end of 10 weeks than be so over the class by the time week 16 or 18 rolls around that I want nothing to do with it.

And finally (sorry for the novel of a post), don't disregard your gut feeling. I wanted to go to NU since I was in 3rd grade, and then I did. NU was always topping my list for grad school (regardless of the field I was looking at - when I was pre-med I wanted Feinberg, when I was planning on getting my teaching certificate I wanted NU's School of Ed and Social Policy). I had a great experience there and I know it would continue to be great. I haven't visited UIC yet, and if I get in then my PT's husband is going to show me around, and I'll be able to tell if it's right for me or not. If UIC doesn't feel right, don't force it.

Just my two cents!

 

[artizzle]

DancerFutureDPT,

Probably irrelevant, but regarding the quarter versus semester topic you mentioned...
I went from a quarter system in undergrad to a semesters in PT school and welcome the change in pace. When I was in the quarter system, everything seemed so rushed; although the 10-week quarters allowed me to take many classes in areas that were completely unrelated. But, in PT school the class curriculum is set and everyone (hopefully) knows that they want to be a PT, so taking different classes really isn't an issue anymore. I enjoy the longer semesters, especially for a grad school because the pace is faster and I feel that if it was quarters, it would blow by before you knew it. And frankly, I want to hold onto this information as long as possible.

The disadvantage of the semester is similar to the advantage, in that there is a boatload of information to cover and the 1st day of the semester feels like ages ago. This may be one of the things applicants want to consider before applying. If you know your learning style (or pace), it might be better to choose an appropriately paced school.

 

[vinganca]

I'd definitely recommend NU for you. Like the poster above said, don't discount your instincts. A strong sense of 'this is right' means it IS! (At least according to what my life experiences and those of others close to me have taught me).

If you get accepted to NU and that is where you feel at home, then you can find a way to make it happen re: money. Perhaps find other areas to cut back on expenses: rent a single room rather than having your own apt, and/or otherwise find the cheapest living accommodations possible (in a safe area though, of course!)

Personally, a school that fosters unnecessary competition among students would put me right off, and I'd be inclined to choose NU over UIC based solely on that if I was in your place.

If you only get admitted to one, then obviously go with that and make it work. But I hope you're offered admission at both, and that you choose the one that's right for you and have all the success in the world.

 

[Akiramay]

You sound just like me! Last year I made the exact same post because I got accepted to NU and UIC. I loved everything about NU more, but it was the cost that was getting to me. I chose NU. I just finished my first trimester today (YAY!!!), and I am definitely happy with the decision I made. I chose NU because I liked their curriculum a lot better (more clinical time early on, integrated classes, etc.). I really feel at home here and know I am getting a great education. I love that we're all non-competitive as well. People email everyone study sheets and dissection videos, and we have study groups to help each other out. Now that finals are over, I'm off to meet my fellow PT students for a bar crawl. So excited!!

When I was trying to choose I made a pros and cons list for both schools. The only pro I put for UIC was the cost and that my bf is going to dental school there. From what it sounds like, you have more pros than cons for NU.

Good luck with everything, and I hope you get into the school that you want!

 

[hopingtobePT]

Thank you all for the insightful replies! I really appreciate the time it took to write them out, and I will consider all of your suggestions should the situation present itself!

Question though,

I've heard on SDN that it doesn't matter where you graduate from in PT, that you get paid the same. But is there REALLY no benefit to going to a top school over a lesser known, less rigorous program? I feel like if you are competing for a job with someone then the person with a higher quality education would be preferred. Is this not the case?

I'm from IL and the PT's i've worked with have never implied that it didn't matter where you graduate. In fact, they specifically mentioned that they don't like to hire from 'x' school, because they don't feel 'x' graduates are well prepared for difficult patients.

just wondering if anyone would like to throw their 2 cents in on the matter. i'd be interested to hear.

 

[DancerFutureDPT]

Thank you all for the insightful replies! I really appreciate the time it took to write them out, and I will consider all of your suggestions should the situation present itself!

Question though,

I've heard on SDN that it doesn't matter where you graduate from in PT, that you get paid the same. But is there REALLY no benefit to going to a top school over a lesser known, less rigorous program? I feel like if you are competing for a job with someone then the person with a higher quality education would be preferred. Is this not the case?

I'm from IL and the PT's i've worked with have never implied that it didn't matter where you graduate. In fact, they specifically mentioned that they don't like to hire from 'x' school, because they don't feel 'x' graduates are well prepared for difficult patients.

just wondering if anyone would like to throw their 2 cents in on the matter. i'd be interested to hear.

Well I think it depends...something like UIC versus NU definitely won't make a huge hiring difference after graduation. BUT, going to some cheap no-name school versus NU would probably make a difference.

As long as you pass the boards, you'll be able to find a job. Graduating from a higher ranked program will probably give you an edge over an applicant from a lesser known school, given all other things being equal...it's like anything...if a person who graduates from Harvard with a business major and a 3.8 GPA is applying for the same job as someone graduating from Northern Illinois Univ with a GPA of 3.8 and a business major, who do you think they'll give it to all other things being equal? (Nothing against NIU...my brother went there and it's a good school). My point is, sometimes having a big name behind you is helpful, but with something like med school or PT school, the name isn't a huge deal. It's obviously hard to get into the program wherever you go, so employers know you're not an idiot

What the PTs I work with say (I'm also in Illinois) is that it's better to go to a less expensive school if you can, if you like the two schools equally. I'm obviously not going to go to a cheaper school that I don't like as much as NU just because it's cheaper. If I get into UIC and love it as much as I do NU, then I'll go there. My PTs point was that if I graduate from NU, or UIC, or Mayo Clinic, or University of West Chicago (not a real school, trying to make a point here lol), I'll be making the same amount of money if I get hired at the clinic where I currently work....they pay all starting PTs the same, regardless of their alma mater.

But there are advantages to going to a big name school...since I went to NU as an undergrad, I can say that I definitely got some experiences and opportunities that my friends at other schools did not, even though they were just as qualified as I was (I'm talking like internships, getting in to observe places, etc., not something like grad school). A highly ranked school like NU or UIC (both are similarly ranked) will have more diverse and maybe "better" clinical sites than a small, non-ranked school. They also will have a larger pool of potential professors, because they have the research and the notoriety to recruit them.

 

[MidwestDPT]

I am applying to DPT programs in Illinois and have a sister in UIC's DPT program. Your choice of clinical placement isn't based on GPA or any competitive process. She said the students work together to select sites with the faculty. Not everyone gets the first choice, but that's the same everywhere. I'd check with the school about this - they seem pretty comparable - both competitive / good reputations / etc. I think expense is different....

 

[artizzle]

DancerFuturePT made a lot of good points. To me it seems to me that when you go to a top tier school you are paying for your education, not a higher starting salary when you're licensed. But, like Dancer said going to a top ranked school can lead to future professional connections and better clinical sites than a non-ranked school.

 

[MidwestDPT]

Just wanted to get some advice on what school you'd pick if you were accepted to both programs.

(I'm currently accepted to neither: supposed to hear from NU in dec and UIC in jan. Please no comments on this, i'm just creating a hypothetical situation). Here is some info I've gathered from my visits, as well as their websites.
______________________________________________
Northwestern:
Length: 2.6 years
Reputation: strong nationwide
Board Pass Rate: 100%
Competition: non competitive (students work together, no ranking of students in the class)

Clincials: 300 sites across the country

Cost: 88k (private)

My visit: loved the facility, location, and professors. Really like that they have a research portion of the curriculum and the trimester system. Strong sense of 'this is right'.

__________________________________
UIC:
Length: 3 years
Reputation: strong in chicago
Board Pass Rate: 'above national avg'. (nat avg=88%)

Competition: competitive-- better rank in class, better clinical choice

Clinicals: .125 sites.
Cost: 61 k (in-state)

My visit: the school was 'nice', kind of outdated feeling. There was a new portion of the building that was promising. Students seemed relatively happy, but said the semesters felt really long. For some reason I didn't have the overwhelming desire to be there that I had with NU.

___________________________________

*So many people say pick the cheaper program hands down. Please evaluate on some other criteria other than cost. I think if I was accepted to both, I'd be inclined to go with NU. But my biggest fear is making a mistake and regretting it. Just looking for feedback. thank you!

Because I'm applying to both these programs - I check this pass rate statistic. Both programs have pass rates for the licensure exam of 100% for the past 3 years (what is reported by the Federation of State Boards of Physical Therapy). So outcomes for both programs seems quite strong. The above info is incorrect. Not to be a stickler about it - but graduating from a program with a high pass rate is a big difference and so worth correcting.

NU has nice facilities, but you also pay for that. I went to UIC and spent a day shadowing students / faculty. Everyone seemed very happy / respectful, etc. Since my parents are paying for my siblings (and my) undergrad degrees, we each have to pay for anything beyond that (eg Grad School). So, at this point, if I get into both programs - I'm going with the less expensive program. I want to get on with life (marry my bf, get a mortgage and start a family) once I'm done. I don't want a big loan payment following me for 20 years after graduation. I've talked to grads from both programs in my volunteer work and also w/ my sister who's a PT....no one seems to think or can provide any substantive difference.

 

[Akiramay]

Because I'm applying to both these programs - I check this pass rate statistic. Both programs have pass rates for the licensure exam of 100% for the past 3 years (what is reported by the Federation of State Boards of Physical Therapy). So outcomes for both programs seems quite strong. The above info is incorrect. Not to be a stickler about it - but graduating from a program with a high pass rate is a big difference and so worth correcting.

I believe she is talking about the FIRST TIME pass rate. There's a big difference between first time pass rate and the regular pass rate. Sure, everyone who graduated may pass the licensure exam, but was it their first or third time? I care to know about that!

While people may not say there's a difference between the two schools, I think there is. At least a bigger difference now that NU changed their curriculum. For example, I could NOT imagine taking anatomy all in one semester anymore. At NU it's split up over 2 trimesters. I feel like I can learn the material better instead of simply trying to cram and memorize information only to forget it soon afterwards. There's a lady who helps out in our anatomy lab and also at the anatomy lab for UIC's PT program. She told us that she felt sorry for them!! I think both programs will prepare you to be a great PT, it's just the route you take to get there. And for me, going to NU is a lot more enjoyable.

When I asked two PT's who graduated from UIC how they felt about school, they grumbled about it. But for me, I always say that although school is hard, I love it! So, how do you want your PT school experience to be? If cost is a big, big factor, along with having more pro's than cons for UIC, then of course I'd say go there. But if you have a lot more pro's for NU, then you know what to do.

 

[MidwestDPT]

I believe she is talking about the FIRST TIME pass rate. There's a big difference between first time pass rate and the regular pass rate. Sure, everyone who graduated may pass the licensure exam, but was it their first or third time? I care to know about that!

While people may not say there's a difference between the two schools, I think there is. At least a bigger difference now that NU changed their curriculum. For example, I could NOT imagine taking anatomy all in one semester anymore. At NU it's split up over 2 trimesters. I feel like I can learn the material better instead of simply trying to cram and memorize information only to forget it soon afterwards. There's a lady who helps out in our anatomy lab and also at the anatomy lab for UIC's PT program. She told us that she felt sorry for them!! I think both programs will prepare you to be a great PT, it's just the route you take to get there. And for me, going to NU is a lot more enjoyable.

When I asked two PT's who graduated from UIC how they felt about school, they grumbled about it. But for me, I always say that although school is hard, I love it! So, how do you want your PT school experience to be? If cost is a big, big factor, along with having more pro's than cons for UIC, then of course I'd say go there. But if you have a lot more pro's for NU, then you know what to do.

The pass rates are available at the APTA website at: http://www.apta.org/AM/Template.cfm?section=PT_Programs&template=/aptaapps/accreditedschools

For UIC: For the classes of 2006 and 2007, 97% passed the licensure examination on the first attempt. The overall pass rate is 100% for these years.

For NU: In 2005, 93.4% of the graduates who sit for the licensure examination passed it on the first attempt. 99% pass it on subsequent attempts (3-year average).

So essentially the same, unless you're that 1%.

I think anatomy is anatomy - and most programs are on semester basis with a gross / cadaver based anatomy course (then neuroanatomy / etc)., and they are challenging courses. So might be better for some to take it over a longer period of time (20 weeks vs 16).

 

[hopingtobePT]

thanks for the updates regarding pass rates. i was using what is listed on UIC's website and didn't think that the APTA listing would be any different. i stand corrected.


Do you think your school reputation would matter, if say, you want to go for a managerial position at some time? for example, say you manage an outpatient clinic(s) or the rehab staff in a hospital?

or is there really, truthfully, no post-graduation point to paying the extra cash?

 

[MidwestDPT]

thanks for the updates regarding pass rates. i was using what is listed on UIC's website and didn't think that the APTA listing would be any different. i stand corrected.


Do you think your school reputation would matter, if say, you want to go for a managerial position at some time? for example, say you manage an outpatient clinic(s) or the rehab staff in a hospital?

or is there really, truthfully, no post-graduation point to paying the extra cash?

I think what you put into your education (effort) pays off and in a very similar way, what you put into your work pays off (promotion, etc). So bottom line, what YOU do impacts your outcome more than selecting between two very comparable programs.

 

[jesspt]

I think what you put into your education (effort) pays off and in a very similar way, what you put into your work pays off (promotion, etc). So bottom line, what YOU do impacts your outcome more than selecting between two very comparable programs.

Exactly. How good a clinician you are after graduation depends far more on the learner than where they went to learn. The work you put into honing your knowledge base and the skill set necessary to succeed in whatever parctice area you choose after graduation will determine how successful you are.

In regards to management, I think I can safely say that where you went to school would have absolutely no bearing on whther or not you were hired for a management position. I graduated from Arcadia (currently tied for 7th in US News ranking) and manage a clinic and some of my friends in the therapy world also have managerial jobs and graduated from Rosalind Franklin (not ranked in the top 25).

 

[hopingtobePT]

Sadly, for me, i just received my UIC rejection letter last night. I was also supposed to hear from Northwestern this week and haven't heard anything yet


Haha, so i guess this thread turned out to be a huge bust for me. I likely won't have to make either choice!

Oh well, hope the conversation helped someone out. It certainly taught me a lot about the nature of the field .

I'm still crossing my fingers for an acceptance at one of the other schools I applied to! If not.. there's always next year...

 

[DPThopeful]

I have not heard from NU yet either! Don't worry

 

[Veritas Invicta]

Sadly, for me, i just received my UIC rejection letter last night. I was also supposed to hear from Northwestern this week and haven't heard anything yet


Haha, so i guess this thread turned out to be a huge bust for me. I likely won't have to make either choice!

Oh well, hope the conversation helped someone out. It certainly taught me a lot about the nature of the field .

I'm still crossing my fingers for an acceptance at one of the other schools I applied to! If not.. there's always next year...

If this makes you feel better, haven't heard back from NU either, I called them a few days ago, they said that because my application was the late 'PTCAS' batch (Mine was verified on Nov 9th), so my application was just sent for faculty review on Tuesday.

Did NU admissions tell you that they were suppose to give you an answer by this week?

 

[hopingtobePT]

If this makes you feel better, haven't heard back from NU either, I called them a few days ago, they said that because my application was the late 'PTCAS' batch (Mine was verified on Nov 9th), so my application was just sent for faculty review on Tuesday.

Did NU admissions tell you that they were suppose to give you an answer by this week?

i submitted before their deadline, but yes i was told via email that i would hear this week by phone if it was something good. if not, to wait for snail mail rejection or waitlist. since i have yet to hear anything, i'll be standing by the mailbox waiting for my depressing letter

 

[DancerFutureDPT]

Sorry to hear you didn't get into UIC I've been hoping to hear from them soon, but maybe I should hope I don't hear from them in the near future? The PT I work with who is married to an AdCom member there said that they just got the apps this week...and looking through them they said the pool is ridiculously competitive - the first 5 random apps all had a 3.8 GPA or above. eek!

 

[Veritas Invicta]

I believe that both of you, hopingtobePT and DancerFutureDPT, have been accepted at one of the graduate schools that you've applied to? I just need that acceptance letter to have something to fall back on, you know what I mean.................

Other than that, I sincerely wish the both of you the best of luck! I'm glad to know that I'm not alone in the waiting game haha!

 

[hopingtobePT]

nope, no acceptances for me just yet :'( still hoping though.

a 3.8 GPA in the first 5 apps? That's crazy. no wonder. The rejection letter i received said they are taking 50 out of the 500 apps they received. So needless to say, I will not be alone in my failure at UIC

 

[DancerFutureDPT]

haha this is true. The PT also said that there are more applications this year than ever before...I think they are increasing their incoming class size a bit (maybe by like 5 students or so?) but not enough to cover the extra few hundred applications. This is a crazy field we're getting into - so many people want it, but there just aren't enough spots for everyone. And I imagine it's just going to keep getting more and more competitive each year...which I guess is a good thing for the profession (more dedicated, possibly more intelligent PTs), but bad for applicants!

Good luck!

 

[vinganca]

haha this is true. The PT also said that there are more applications this year than ever before...I think they are increasing their incoming class size a bit (maybe by like 5 students or so?) but not enough to cover the extra few hundred applications. This is a crazy field we're getting into - so many people want it, but there just aren't enough spots for everyone. And I imagine it's just going to keep getting more and more competitive each year...

It's an illusion, created by PTCAS and perpetuated by many DPT programs. Yes, PT admission is really competitive. No one would deny that. But let's use those 500 apps as an example...

First, most schools love to cleverly word the data to make their programs sound as exclusive as possible. "We received 500 applications for 50 available seats" sounds really intimidating and impressive...but it's somewhat misleading.

How many of those were qualified applicants (i.e. how many met the minimum requirements for admission)? Then, how many were competitive applicants, vs. how many of those 500 applicants had grades and scores that, while technically qualified, were just barely scraping by? That's impressive that the first 5 applicants had GPAs of 3.8 or higher...but I'd be willing to bet money that not all 500 applicants are on that competitive level, or even qualified at all.

I'm always surprised at the disparity between the stats of schools who do an honest breakdown of their data and those who don't. I commend those schools who do give a clear, thorough picture containing not only the total number of applicants and the total number accepted, but also how many of those applicants were qualified, how many were initially accepted but did not matriculate, etc. The details can make a world of difference.

Second, the advent of PTCAS has done two things: made it easy for more people to apply to a lot more schools, and created the widespread belief that everyone must apply to a bunch of schools to ensure they get in somewhere, since SO many people are applying. Artificially raising the stakes, if you will.

Of those offered acceptance to any program, how many actually accepted the offer? Obviously, one person can only attend one school. How many accepted the offer initially, and then canceled when one of their first-choice schools came through? The vast majority apply to at least 3 schools, and many apply to more than that. For the sake of simplification, let's say every applicant applies to an average of 3 schools. So now we've got a situation where nationwide, the number of DPT applicants on paper is 3 times larger than the actual number of people available to take a place in a PT program! It would then appear as if the number of DPT applicants increased threefold...when in reality, the increase stems from the same number of people simply applying to more schools.

Yes, competition is steep, but not as steep as some would like to lead you to believe.

 

[DPThopeful]

I definitely agree. Good points. Another thing to add is that every school I have spoken too give acceptance letters to at least a third or a half more people then they have spots, assuming people will take an acceptance from another school. So you take your 50 spots and increase the acceptances to 100, your odds are not as bad either.

 

[artizzle]

Vinganca, so essentially you're saying:
1. Get all pre-reqs
2. Apply via PTCAS
3. ???
4. PROFIT!

Seriously though, everything you said makes sense (to me). I wish the ATPA or PTCAS or somebody would require schools to give up their applicant stats broken down into the different categories. Would probably give you a more realistic view of schools you're able to get in to.

 

[hujee]

I got an e-mail from Northwestern this week that I'm on their alternate list. So, if that helps you can wait anxiously by computer and mailbox

Good luck to all of us

 

[DancerFutureDPT]

I definitely agree. Good points. Another thing to add is that every school I have spoken too give acceptance letters to at least a third or a half more people then they have spots, assuming people will take an acceptance from another school. So you take your 50 spots and increase the acceptances to 100, your odds are not as bad either.

I was just about to make that point. They need to fill there spots, and they know not everyone will accept the offer, so they do offer more spots then they intend on getting.

I would like to think that everyone who applies at least has the minimum requirements, otherwise it's a waste of time. Although I'm sure that there are many who are not competitive applicants. That said, I'm sure there are a lot of competitive people applying, especially for some of the well known schools (NU and UIC in Chicago, for example). In my chem II class alone there are 6 of us applying to PT school. We all already have our bachelor degrees and are taking the class at community college because we changed our minds as to what we wanted to do in life. We all have similar stats and all applied to the same schools (all the Chicago ones, and a few out of state).There are a ton of people who are finishing their senior year, or are a few years post-bac that are applying too who are qualified and probably pretty competitive. For me I applied to a few schools I wasn't sure if I would get into, but I didn't want to waste money applying to a school that I either knew I wouldn't go to if that was the only school I got into, or to a school that I KNEW I wouldn't get into (i.e. U of SoCal...even if I got in I knew I coudln't afford it).

Yes, people are applying to more schools to make sure they get in someplace, but those people may be competitive applicants. If they're competitive, they may get offered admission even if they have no intention or desire to go to that school, taking a spot away from someone who would have gotten in a previous year. So while more people are applying to more schools to make sure they get in, and even though you can only go to one school, they aren't offering enough admission offers to compensate for the drastic increase in applications.

I don't think I worded that well, but yeah. I pulled an all nighter and have to go give a 30 minute presentation for physiology, so my brain is a bit fried.

 

[deRBy2k13]

I was just about to make that point. They need to fill there spots, and they know not everyone will accept the offer, so they do offer more spots then they intend on getting.

I would like to think that everyone who applies at least has the minimum requirements, otherwise it's a waste of time. Although I'm sure that there are many who are not competitive applicants. That said, I'm sure there are a lot of competitive people applying, especially for some of the well known schools (NU and UIC in Chicago, for example). In my chem II class alone there are 6 of us applying to PT school. We all already have our bachelor degrees and are taking the class at community college because we changed our minds as to what we wanted to do in life. We all have similar stats and all applied to the same schools (all the Chicago ones, and a few out of state).There are a ton of people who are finishing their senior year, or are a few years post-bac that are applying too who are qualified and probably pretty competitive. For me I applied to a few schools I wasn't sure if I would get into, but I didn't want to waste money applying to a school that I either knew I wouldn't go to if that was the only school I got into, or to a school that I KNEW I wouldn't get into (i.e. U of SoCal...even if I got in I knew I coudln't afford it).

Yes, people are applying to more schools to make sure they get in someplace, but those people may be competitive applicants. If they're competitive, they may get offered admission even if they have no intention or desire to go to that school, taking a spot away from someone who would have gotten in a previous year. So while more people are applying to more schools to make sure they get in, and even though you can only go to one school, they aren't offering enough admission offers to compensate for the drastic increase in applications.

I don't think I worded that well, but yeah. I pulled an all nighter and have to go give a 30 minute presentation for physiology, so my brain is a bit fried.

It may--in some circumstances,but not all--be the case that more students are applying to multiple schools because of PTCAS, but I learned from an Open House at Ohio State that their numbers have actually fallen from last year. One of the professors said that last year (first year with PTCAS) there were 230 applicants for 40 spots. This year, they received 190 applications. Still not the best odds of getting in, but I'm trying to remain optimistic. He also explained that they do not do interviews because they get more information about a students character from letters of recommendation and personal statements. Adding to competitiveness, he said their average GPA last year was 3.82, higher than even their MD applicants :-/

I applied to 4 schools. They're all schools that I could see myself going to (if accepted). I didn't want to waste any money applying through PTCAS, paying supplemental fees, then commuting ($) to that state for an interview at a school that I ultimately don't want to go to.

For anyone who applied to OSU, we should hear by mid/late-January!!

 

[MidwestDPT]

I think what we're seeing is the current bump of population of kids of the baby-boomers hitting college / grad school. Applications to all universities across all programs are rising and the trend is expected to continue to 2015. So, DPT is not any different in that respect. But with DPT, you have a job in a projected growth industry, etc - so may make it more competitive on top of the demographics. I'll be happy to get in anywhere - I don't see myself "fitting" in another profession. So = stay positive and keep going....

 

[MidwestDPT]

Just wanted to get some advice on what school you'd pick if you were accepted to both programs.

(I'm currently accepted to neither: supposed to hear from NU in dec and UIC in jan. Please no comments on this, i'm just creating a hypothetical situation). Here is some info I've gathered from my visits, as well as their websites.
______________________________________________
Northwestern:
Length: 2.6 years
Reputation: strong nationwide
Board Pass Rate: 100%
Competition: non competitive (students work together, no ranking of students in the class)

Clincials: 300 sites across the country

Cost: 88k (private)

My visit: loved the facility, location, and professors. Really like that they have a research portion of the curriculum and the trimester system. Strong sense of 'this is right'.

__________________________________
UIC:
Length: 3 years
Reputation: strong in chicago
Board Pass Rate: 'above national avg'. (nat avg=88%)

Competition: competitive-- better rank in class, better clinical choice

Clinicals: .125 sites.
Cost: 61 k (in-state)

My visit: the school was 'nice', kind of outdated feeling. There was a new portion of the building that was promising. Students seemed relatively happy, but said the semesters felt really long. For some reason I didn't have the overwhelming desire to be there that I had with NU.

___________________________________

*So many people say pick the cheaper program hands down. Please evaluate on some other criteria other than cost. I think if I was accepted to both, I'd be inclined to go with NU. But my biggest fear is making a mistake and regretting it. Just looking for feedback. thank you!

In looking over the tuition - NU was double what UIC is currently - calculating in tuition and fees (not other expenses - rent / etc). I also talked with 5 grads - two from UIC and 3 from NU (all at the facility I volunteer at). They all liked their educational experience - felt they were well prepared and passed the licensure exam on the first time. 2 of the NU grads stated they regretted paying what they did for their education - both had considerable monthly payments (enough to cover the cost of a car).

 

[PTstudent11]

,

 

[Veritas Invicta]

I know what you mean, and don't forget living expenses, which is approximately 16k a year?

 

[PTstudent11]

,

 

[DancerFutureDPT]

I'm in the position to make the OP's initial decision, NU or UIC.

I've been NU all the way since my acceptance there back in October, but honestly, I think UIC may win out in the end. spending 90k vs 55k on my tuition just seems too hard to justify.

I'm visiting the programs next month.

Anyone else in this position with me ?!?!

Not quite, but pretty much. I found out today that I'm waitlisted at UIC, but I'm in the top 20 on the waitlist. From the people I've talked to there, they said they usually take up 30 or so from the waitlist, so it's more of a matter of when I'll get accepted. Not the best news, but I'll take it

That said, I'm hoping I'll know for sure sooner rather than later. My tuition deposit is due at NU Feb. 22 I believe, so I have to have a decision by then. I'm going to have someone give me a tour of UIC and introduce me to some faculty so I can get a better feel for it and can make a better decision.

 

[MidwestDPT]

Hey - received my acceptance to UIC and NU. Feel very fortunate. Also found out that the son of a NU faculty member is graduating from UIC this year. Too funny. Decision made! Good luck to everyone.

 

[deleted671726]

I am currently a first year in my second semester in the Northwestern DPT program. As long as the program is accredited, it does not matter which program you go to if you want to work as a physical therapist. I think that rings true with almost every health care field (please correct me if I am wrong). If you want to work as a PT/OT/MD/etc., you just have to get into an accredited program and graduate. Especially between UIC and Northwestern, which are both very high up there nationally, your quality as a PT will be the same. What really differentiates the top programs is their research. If you want to do research in PT/MD/etc., then rank is everything. What am I saying? If you want to work as a PT, I would choose UIC because it will be the same preparation for much less money. If you are interested in research sometime down the road, Northwestern is the better choice. Besides that, it is just a matter of school name and pride. For myself, the honeymoon period of going to Northwestern (ooh ahh) went away very quickly.

More about the actual Northwestern DPT program:
- IT'S RESEARCH-HEAVY: Like I said, the main difference between UIC and NU is the research. That definitely influences the curriculum. There are a number of classes centered around finding, reading, and analyzing research articles. (From what I know) NU also teaches a lot more math in its physiology and biomechanics classes compared to other programs. This is material that you will likely not use unless you do research.
- SYNTHESIS PROJECT: This is the synthesis project that Akiramay alluded to. You essentially work in a team with 2-3 professors and 2-3 other students to work on one of the professor's research topics. This is interesting as you can get a taste of research if you are not planning on doing it long term, or get a preview of the process if you are planning on doing it long term. Again, this does not necessarily result in making you a better PT. You learn your research topic (I actually find mine very interesting), research skills, and about the research process.
- THE SCHEDULE: Be aware of the schedule coming in. I do not know how all other PT programs are (please share what UIC is like), but we have class everyday 8am-3pm or 8am-5pm with an hour lunch break at 12pm-1pm. You are in class 25-35 hours a week. The class credit (hour) break down for all 6 semesters (aka trimesters) is ~25, 25, 17, 6 week clinical, 22, 18, 6 week clinical, 14, 12 week clinical, 12 week clinical. Do your research and see what the UIC schedule is like.
- LIVING SITUATION: The school is also right in downtown (Michigan & Erie), so living costs will be extremely high for anything close. I would recommend finding an apartment that is 20-25 minutes away via an express bus or a CTA line.
- THE TUITION: The tuition is extremely high, and I personally do not think it is worth it if you are not planning on doing research. It is approximately $105k for all 3 years and your starting salary will probably be around 60-75k, depending where you work. Although you probably are not going PT for the money, do the math and you realize it is going to take a long time to pay off, which effectively decreases your net salary every year. I think UIC is actually an amazing opportunity. The top PT schools are generally 80-100k. Amazingly, UIC is a top school in the nation and only 50-60k in tuition. But the Northwestern name is enticing, so I understand. When people ask what school you go to, it is nice to say Northwestern, even though it doesn't really matter (but they don't know that).

THE BOTTOM LINE: Northwestern (and recently UIC also) are top programs due to their research and a lot of the material they teach that sets them apart from other schools is mostly only practical for PT's who are pursuing careers in research. Don't discount programs like Rosalind Franklin, Midwestern, etc. At the end of the day, education is an investment, so be aware of what exactly you are investing in. Only a fool would invest $100,000 into something based on the name without heavy independently done research.

MY LAST WORD: Don't just go to a school for the name. Do your research. I will admit that I have some regrets (definitely shared by a number of classmates), but the program is overall good and I know it will prepare me to be a good PT. The program is great and has a lot of strong points, but I don't think those points distinguish it from UIC (besides the research). If I could re-choose schools knowing what I know now, I would have definitely considered UIC more. I know I am giving Northwestern a pretty harsh evaluation, but if you are choosing between the two, I am sure you have already attended the open house and have been sold the program in many ways. I just want to provide my perspective to help other prospective PT students make a good, educated decision.

If you have any questions or comments, please reply!

 

[chicagoLT]

Hey, I’ve came across two doctors who graduated from uic and they were making mistakes treating now patients. So I guess uic isn’t preping correct for the practical treatment. Even with good passing rate for the exams l. Just fyi