UAGM!

[serendipity14]

this is so exciting! what are everyone’s thoughts?

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[chacha1652]

It’s definitely exciting to see more schools opening but at the same time the tuition/fees are INSANELY high. Wish there were more programs opening that could put people sub 300k in debt lol

 

[serendipity14]

It’s definitely exciting to see more schools opening but at the same time the tuition/fees are INSANELY high. Wish there were more programs opening that could put people sub 300k in debt lol

i totally agree, it is so high

 

[SkiOtter]

Oh LAWD I just looked at the tuition prices for this school and I almost threw up at those. Why the heck is it so much more expensive per year than any US vet school?????

 

[battie]

Just another school that will make the vet shortage/maldistribution worse, not better

 

[JaynaAli]

When I saw those numbers I wondered if there was crazy cost of living in Puerto Rico, but those 75k/yr numbers I’d seen were just tuition, not accounting for living expenses. *shock* I know I’m getting old and costs have risen but I didn’t even borrow 75k for three years of tuition at my in-state.

I read an article the other day on AVMA’s Facebook that mentioned UAGM, Chamberlain in Georgia, UMES in Maryland, Rocky Vista in Montana, Hanover in Indiana, Arkansas State, Clemson, and Rowan in New Jersey all either have their letter or assurance or have applied for it and site visits are scheduled for this year. Plus I heard LMU wanted to open a second campus? I can absolutely see how a pre-vet would be excited that there are more options (and for many/most of these, an in-state option they haven’t had before) but I can’t see this being a good thing for the profession, especially so suddenly/all at once and on top of the other new programs like LIU and ASU plus increasing class sizes at the more historic schools. The newer programs have all had some of the highest costs even without having teaching hospitals. Five to ten years from now I strongly fear we’ll be over saturated and people will have insane loans and they may or may not find jobs because there’s too many new grads. But the schools don’t care because they’ll have naive pre-vet/vet student tuition dollars in their pockets by then and the AVMA won’t care because they just don’t.

 

[supershorty]

Just another school that will make the vet shortage/maldistribution worse, not better

When I saw those numbers I wondered if there was crazy cost of living in Puerto Rico, but those 75k/yr numbers I’d seen were just tuition, not accounting for living expenses. *shock* I know I’m getting old and costs have risen but I didn’t even borrow 75k for three years of tuition at my in-state.

I read an article the other day on AVMA’s Facebook that mentioned UAGM, Chamberlain in Georgia, UMES in Maryland, Rocky Vista in Montana, Hanover in Indiana, Arkansas State, Clemson, and Rowan in New Jersey all either have their letter or assurance or have applied for it and site visits are scheduled for this year. Plus I heard LMU wanted to open a second campus? I can absolutely see how a pre-vet would be excited that there are more options (and for many/most of these, an in-state option they haven’t had before) but I can’t see this being a good thing for the profession. The newer programs have all had some of the highest costs even without having teaching hospitals. Five to ten years from now I strongly fear we’ll be over saturated and people will have insane loans and they may or may not find jobs because there’s too many new grads. But the schools don’t care because they’ll have naive pre-vet tuition dollars in their pockets by then and the AVMA won’t care because they just don’t.

Just retweeting these for the people in the back, and also for the COE.

 

[serendipity14]

When I saw those numbers I wondered if there was crazy cost of living in Puerto Rico, but those 75k/yr numbers I’d seen were just tuition, not accounting for living expenses. *shock* I know I’m getting old and costs have risen but I didn’t even borrow 75k for three years of tuition at my in-state.

I read an article the other day on AVMA’s Facebook that mentioned UAGM, Chamberlain in Georgia, UMES in Maryland, Rocky Vista in Montana, Hanover in Indiana, Arkansas State, Clemson, and Rowan in New Jersey all either have their letter or assurance or have applied for it and site visits are scheduled for this year. Plus I heard LMU wanted to open a second campus? I can absolutely see how a pre-vet would be excited that there are more options (and for many/most of these, an in-state option they haven’t had before) but I can’t see this being a good thing for the profession, especially so suddenly/all at once and on top of the other new programs like LIU and ASU plus increasing class sizes at the more historic schools. The newer programs have all had some of the highest costs even without having teaching hospitals. Five to ten years from now I strongly fear we’ll be over saturated and people will have insane loans and they may or may not find jobs because there’s too many new grads. But the schools don’t care because they’ll have naive pre-vet/vet student tuition dollars in their pockets by then and the AVMA won’t care because they just don’t.

that’s a great point of view and completely valid fear.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Wow... no one believes the "enrollment cliff" is real. (Podiatry added 1 school, DO's keep adding campuses, MD's are opening a few more, pharmacy is messed up... .)

Thanks for sharing

American Association of Veterinary Medical Colleges welcomes 12 schools for membership - AAVMC

MEDIA CONTACT: Susan Leigh, Director for Marketing and Communications Phone: 202/371-9195 x171 Email: [email protected] WASHINGTON, D.C., January 31, 2024 — The American Association of Veterinary Medical Colleges (AAVMC) has recently welcomed 12 new institutions for membership. The Universidad...

www.aavmc.org

 

[battie]

that’s a great point of view and completely valid fear.

Keep in mind vet med is a luxury service product compared to human med. We don't get guaranteed money from the government or insurance companies like human medicine does. Therefore, recessions can actually be quite harmful. There were 2-3 veterinarians for every available job when the class of 2008 graduated. And that's cause people stop spending money on the animals besides absolute basics. You add in a flux of graduates, there's real risk of the market not being able to absorb the excess.

New schools and expanding class sizes hurt vet med.

 

[battie]

There's an article on VIN about this new program. Not shocked to learn it's a private school

 

[chacha1652]

There's an article on VIN about this new program. Not shocked to learn it's a private school

Explains the tuition and fees
It’s very distasteful for me that this program is opening and charging that much in a place where the 2022 avg household income was $24,000 and many of the population lives in poverty. Without even an option for PR students to have “in state” tuition? Feels like a huge money grab and kind of like dangling a carrot in front of their faces… idk

 

[battie]

Explains the tuition and fees
It’s very distasteful for me that this program is opening and charging that much in a place where the 2022 avg household income was $24,000 and many of the population lives in poverty. Without even an option for PR students to have “in state” tuition? Feels like a huge money grab and kind of like dangling a carrot in front of their faces… idk

According to the VIN article, a lot of vets in Puerto Rico are apprehensive about this due to cost.

I imagine they're going to rely on OOS/out of country students for the vast majority of seats.

 

[battie]

they don't have the same access to funding states do, etc. What went into this decision? Costs to set up and operate the school are likely higher, it probably took a longer time, and how is it funded if they do not have the same infrastructure as states do?

Instead they have private funding. Apparently this university system has multiple campuses both on the island and the mainland. This is why the apprehension by local vets. Privately funded schools specifically target areas like the Caribbean islands or cheap states because the cost of living allows for cheaper land purchase and build out, while still justifying the cost to students by meeting market comparability to other schools. The profit margin is larger in comparison to a state school building a school.

There's certainly a deficit of doctors in PR. Unfortunately, this school will not solve that deficit because 1) the majority of graduates will not stay due to having no ties to the community besides school and 2) the cost even for the native Puerto Ricans that attend as there is no way the local community can support doctors with 500k debt, so those students will also have to leave

You can look up this VIN article! You just need to Google "VIN news Puerto Rico vet school" and it should come up! This applies for any VIN news article.

 

[topanga_231]

Instead they have private funding. Apparently this university system has multiple campuses both on the island and the mainland. This is why the apprehension by local vets. Privately funded schools specifically target areas like the Caribbean islands or cheap states because the cost of living allows for cheaper land purchase and build out, while still justifying the cost to students by meeting market comparability to other schools. The profit margin is larger in comparison to a state school building a school.

There's certainly a deficit of doctors in PR. Unfortunately, this school will not solve that deficit because 1) the majority of graduates will not stay due to having no ties to the community besides school and 2) the cost even for the native Puerto Ricans that attend as there is no way the local community can support doctors with 500k debt, so those students will also have to leave

You can look up this VIN article! You just need to Google "VIN news Puerto Rico vet school" and it should come up! This applies for any VIN news article.

thank you for this! i thought i had to be a member to view VIN articles all this time, so this is super helpful. a
edited to add:
just read the article. i wonder if the COE will eventually dictate what standards are for tuition as part of its standards for accreditation ? that might be a pathway. I know that another island school might lower tuition because of the GE rule to remain eligible for federal aid programs.

 

[battie]

wonder if the COE will eventually dictate what standards are for tuition as part of its standards for accreditation ?

I wish and would highly support such a move! I think it would be an uphill battle. The AVMA was sued by Western University in California back when they initially denied accreditation due to the distributive model. Ever since, the AVMA has had no outward issue accrediting anyone who applies. So I'm not hopeful.

 

[JaynaAli]

What went into this decision? Costs to set up and operate the school are likely higher, it probably took a longer time, and how is it funded if they do not have the same infrastructure as states do?

A rich private college notices, hey, there’s thousands of pre-vets who desperately want to go to vet school and will pay almost anything to “achieve their dream” of being a vet AND there’s literally an endless pipeline of money from the federal government to give those pre-vets whatever money the program costs in student loans. The private school knows they can make money off those students and educate them for less than they charge, so they decide to invest money to build a school because it will make them more money. It can quickly become predatory because those of you who haven’t worked as vets and had to pay loans just don’t realize the effects it has on your life to have that much debt. But these schools won’t care about your financial situation after you graduate and it’ll be your problem, so they’ll open a school, charge whatever they want, take your money, and leave you to the fallout.

I personally wouldn’t pay over 200k for this degree. The salaries you earn are not enough to justify the massive 300-400k+ price tags. I do think someone needs to put a cap on what people can charge/borrow compared to expected salary…whether that’s the AVMA COE or the federal government or someone else, I’m not sure. But something probably does need to change. I know at least three vets who were originally from Puerto Rico currently practicing in the continental US. I think a school in Puerto Rico is a good idea and needed, but it needs to be reasonably priced and attainable for Puerto Ricans and keep vets in Puerto Rico, not what is currently proposed.

I absolutely remember how it felt to be a pre-vet and just want to go to vet school and be a vet. And I do enjoy my job but now that I’m on the other side of graduation and nearly a decade out (side note: omg how did I get so old) I think I could probably be just as fulfilled in life doing something else. Fifteen to twenty years ago I may not have believed that, but it’s true.

 

[serendipity14]

I absolutely remember how it felt to be a pre-vet and just want to go to vet school and be a vet. And I do enjoy my job but now that I’m on the other side of graduation and nearly a decade out (side note: omg how did I get so old) I think I could probably be just as fulfilled in life doing something else. Fifteen to twenty years ago I may not have believed that, but it’s true.

this just spoke volumes to me as someone who has applied three times with no avail. i am now considering other career options, still all in the science field, as i already am in undergraduate debt and spent thousands of dollars on post bac classes and applications the past few years. im really starting to wonder the same thing... explore other careers that will fulfill me all the while still be making a difference.

 

[battie]

I do think someone needs to put a cap on what people can charge/borrow compared to expected salary…whether that’s the AVMA COE or the federal government or someone else, I’m not sure

Agreed, and probably should be the federal government. This should apply to all disciplines and degrees, not just vet med. My cousin spent more on her bachelor's art degree than I did my vet school degree, even if I hadn't had the life insurance money to do so. She now cannot find an art job, she can't get into a master's program (cause she refuses to apply anywhere but yale), and works in a gallery ironically showing off other people's art.

I think I could probably be just as fulfilled in life doing something else.

This is also true for me, and taking it a step further, I wish I had been more exposed to other professions. I would have loved to have done ultrasonography, a ton of different government options, would have done well in certain retail management positions, etc. The singular focus pre-vets have on vet med is honestly a shame.

 

[battie]

im really starting to wonder the same thing... explore other careers that will fulfill me all the while still be making a difference.

My limit was three applications. I didn't work in vet med at all the last cycle and actually found a job I loved working in academia student services. I wasn't going to leave if I hadn't gotten the one acceptance I got. I was even making plans on how to advance in that field.

I also want to remind people in general that "making a difference" doesn't have to be the extreme of life and death. That work can be purely to work and support the life you want outside of those parameters. My husband works in the housekeeping department of a upscale hotel. He won't leave cause it's the style of job he wants (limited client interactions), though he would consider management positions (for the money). He doesn't change any lives but ours. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

[thenontraveler]

I think that we should encourage more people to go get jobs before committing to a professional program. Like figure out who you are and what you want first and then choose a program. Because I feel like the undergrad to professional school pipeline does a huge disservice to people. And you don't get real world experience. I definitely was not mature enough to be a vet at 22. I needed to grow up, figure out how I can be a good team player and my values and then I decided to try and I am glad I did. I have talked to quite a few vets who went straight through all school and have zero people skills or understanding of how their actions affect techs and assistants below them and it sucks. They also tend to have an unhealthy work/life balance.

 

[chacha1652]

Unfortunately the government profits off of us being indebted to them lol

 

[serendipity14]

My limit was three applications. I didn't work in vet med at all the last cycle and actually found a job I loved working in academia student services. I wasn't going to leave if I hadn't gotten the one acceptance I got. I was even making plans on how to advance in that field.

I also want to remind people in general that "making a difference" doesn't have to be the extreme of life and death. That work can be purely to work and support the life you want outside of those parameters. My husband works in the housekeeping department of a upscale hotel. He won't leave cause it's the style of job he wants (limited client interactions), though he would consider management positions (for the money). He doesn't change any lives but ours. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

i have also been exploring new things this past cycle just in case it was a rejection, so i’m very glad i did!
the making a difference thing is SO important. i have been beating myself up about this specifically because i have imagined myself being a vet my whole life, and trying to break out of that tunnel vision mindset has honestly been hard. but i’m learning to take it with grace and realize that exact same thing: there is SO many ways to leave your impact on the people that you meet and do things that YOU feel make a difference! and that’s okay too!

 

[serendipity14]

I completely agree that it should be the federal government and it should be all disciplines and degrees. I have so many friends, family members etc- that this also applies to. i am SO with you on this. it's such a huge problem.

I also agree that a singular focus on vet med is a shame. I'm someone who has done other things- or tried- but i always came back to vet med, because ultimately, this is where I have found the most fulfillment. i've logged well over ten thousand hours in clinics and animal shelters and I can't imagine myself doing anything else... but I also can't imagine spending too much more time trying to get into school when my peers are traveling, thinking about their own kids' college, aging parents, etc.

I have to come up with a backup plan thats more specific than "PA school" because I do believe my limit will be two cycles.

i wish you the best of luck on your future cycles 🤍

 

[topanga_231]

Has anyone who completed application heard anything from them yet ?