Two different options as an older student

[The Child-Pepin Axis]

I wish I’d found this forum earlier, but am glad I found it now.

I’m a very “non-traditional” student, I never finished my undergrad in my early twenties, and after I sobered up at twenty-four I was happy and grateful to live life as a working class creative person. I’d always thought about becoming a mental health therapist though, and been encouraged in that direction by people in my personal life and recovery communities, and went back and finished my undergraduate degree in my early forties (I’m forty-three now).

I went to a moderately prestigious liberal arts school (Reed College), and finished my degree in history. My undergraduate thesis was a social and intellectual history of European psychiatrists in colonial Africa, and was very well received. I had only intended on applying to master’s programs, but a professor on my orals board suggested that I should consider pursuing a PsyD, as the path to licensure only took one more year but the degree would offer higher pay and greater flexibility. My overall GPA was low (3.1) given my misspent youth, but 3.8 after returning to school, and I had a handful of professors saying they’d be “honored” to give me strong letters of recommendation given my “inspirational” story. I was told by both professors and the college’s career counseling center that though I was a very unconventional candidate for graduate schools, I was nevertheless a strong one.

In the end I only applied to (and was accepted by) two programs: a master’s in clinical rehabilitation counseling at the local state school (Portland State University), and the PsyD at the Wright Institute in Berkeley. The Wright Institute is compelling to me because I was an admirer of Adorno’s and was taken in by an approach to clinical work that was socially grounded and less focused on individualism. The amount of debt is startling to me, particularly at my age, but a friend of mine who’s an MD had a positive experience with PSLF and working at a federally qualifying clinic or 501(c)3 is in alignment with my values and ambitions anyways. I am most interested in working with elderly people and people who are navigating transitions in their understanding of themselves in social and cultural contexts, and I’d be excited to work at the VA, for example.

Reading this forum though, I see that I didn’t understand the extent to which graduates of programs like the Wright’s are devalued by others in the field, and that the simple fact of my attendance there might limit or disqualify me from securing the internships or entry-level jobs that would allow me to do the work I want to do. I don’t want to sound hubristic, but I know that I’ll excel academically wherever I go – I know how to work, I’ve written a thesis before, I’m collegial and well-liked by the people I’ve worked and studied with and for. I would hate to invest the time, effort, and debt necessary to secure the PsyD, only to then realize that I was the product of a “diploma mill.” My parents are dissolute and I have absolutely no family financial resources to draw upon either now or from an eventual estate.

It seems that the advice to many people in my situation is to wait and re-apply to funded PhD programs in clinical psych. I think the reasonable assumption, however, is that these people are twenty years younger than I am. I’m also unsure how likely I am to be accepted by a PhD program, given that my degree is in the humanities and my CV and undergraduate transcripts are so unusual. I don’t know why anyone would hire me for an RA position, for example – I did well in the research psych courses I took as an undergraduate and am genuinely interested in research, but given the pandemic I just do not have the laboratory experience to make me helpful. Also given my age and social/familial networks, I would pretty much only want to attend school on the West Coast or in the Northeast, and I understand that this limits my chances even further. I’d like to eventually practice in a more rural environment, but if I am going to spend my forties as a broke graduate student I would like to at least be in a place where I can draw on the emotional and social support of the people I love.

Sorry for such a long post! I really don’t know what to do. I have been poor all my life and am not particularly motivated by money or prestige. I would, however, like to be as effective a clinician as possible, and to save enough money to be able to retire at some point. All of my academic mentors work either in the humanities or experimental psychology, and I worry that the two PsyDs I spoke with may have given me poor advice. I am not sure what the best of my three options (MA, PsyD, waiting a year) is. Do people here have positive experiences with PSLF? I know two people in other professions who've had great success with it, but it seems to be rarely mentioned in this forum. I'm now worried that attending a program like Wright would make it difficult for me to attain the internships and post-doc fellowships to set me up for a decent PSLF qualifying job, even if I did excellent work while in school.

Thank you so much to anyone who reads all of this!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[R. Matey]

Thanks for posting. It was lovely reading your inspiring story. Given the goal is psychotherapy, I'd suggest the mental health counseling program at PSU. It's a pretty good one and LPCs are reimbursed in OR at roughly the same rate as psychologists for the base psychotherapy codes. The social work program is really good there too.

 

[summerbabe]

Appreciate your story and interest in getting advice.

For profit programs that enroll way more students than they should like Wright would be the equivalent of paying $25 for a Big Mac and waiting 30 minutes for it to be made and then getting another bill 5 years later for another $15. And by then, you might be struggling more than you should to afford things like hamburgers.

Do you still get a hamburger? Yes! But are you totally getting boned? Yes!

The modal doctoral funded PhD and PsyD program enrolls 5-8 students each year because beyond that, mentoring and supervision suffers due to lack of individual attention.

Put another way, if we applied the same for profit PsyD model to Reed, imagine tripling or quadrupling all of your seminar classes caps and only being able to talk to your advisor like twice a semester. Pretty soon, your Reed experience will feel like a commuter state school except you're paying 3x or 4x as much, which is why for profit PsyDs like Wright have a terrible reputation.

It's still a choice for some (including people who are very informed and have weighed all pros/cons versus the uninformed) but many in the field will always hold negative beliefs because we know they should be doing better (but choose not to because they are elevating profit motives).

I'll also add that I went to a comparable school to Reed (selective liberal arts, humanities major) and while my profs were lovely, wonderful and smart people, they are often wildly uninformed about things like real world career choices due to the path they chose and the bubble they inhabit.

As for things like PSFL, I would hate to bank on both the program being around for 15+ more years and your life/career circumstances making it possible to work in eligible PSFL jobs for a whole decade.

Based on your goals and desire to stay in certain geographic areas, I would strongly recommend a license eligible master's program that's based at a public university.

 

[albatross_at_crossroads]

Thanks for posting. It was lovely reading your inspiring story. Given the goal is psychotherapy, I'd suggest the mental health counseling program at PSU. It's a pretty good one and LPCs are reimbursed in OR at roughly the same rate as psychologists for the base psychotherapy codes. The social work program is really good there too.

Short answer: this is some great advice and it's really worth considering.

Long answer: your post appears to suggest that your path would be very unconventional for grad schools, which isn't really. Sure, there are many more applicants in their 20s, but there are plenty of non-traditional students out there (as in older, took another path). I was a grad student both in my 20s (so what you see as the "typical" path) and now again at an age closer to yours. There is one more person in my cohort with a story similar to yours (finished undergrad later, did honors thesis) and the age/non-traditional track part is not an impediment.

Life isn't always a straight line. Your experience can be valuable, especially if you are willing to work hard.
Labs can still take you one if you want to go that route for research. Getting into a funded PsyD might take some more work on top of what you have now.
If you want a slightly less longer route, taking the advice or R.Matey is probably the best and you can have the career that you want.
Stay away from diploma mills and large debt, especially at this age. It's never worth it. Best of luck!

 

[futureapppsy2]

FYI, a clinical rehab counseling degree should also set you up for LPC licensure. So, that program should be fine for your goals,

 

[Sanman]

Nice to hear your story. As far as age, while this was a long time ago, cohorts in my funded program had people as young as 21(me) to their 50s. I found the more mature students to do very well as they were very settled in other areas of life. It was also fun to get different perspectives on life.

As for programs to be a therapist. At the midlevel, LCSWs have the most job options. However in recent years LPCs have been more accepted by insurance and the dept of Veteran's affairs you may want to look at who is hiring in you area and interests and see if LPCs job listing are readily available (Indeed, USAJobs, etc)

At the doctoral level, large cohort programs tend to charge alot and do not provide the individual attention a small funded program with 6-9 people receive. Some find mentors and gain great experience. Others do not and work in what are essentially master's level positions. Part of gaining those opportunities is your interest and part is luck. The mentorship is the real difference.

 

[PsyDr]

Someone told you that a PsyD from Wright was “one more year” than a masters degree, and you’re surprised that people devalue the degree?

 

[ThatPsyGuy]

If you are to go with the Rehabilitation Counseling program, you should research if they have a Rehabilitation Services Administration Scholars program.

Pretty much your education would be funded through the RSA with the caveat that you have to pay back the number of years you were funded by working in a State rehabilitation agency or in a nonprofit rehabilitation agency, professional corporation, professional practice group, or related agency providing services to individuals with disabilities under an agreement with a designated State agency.

You'd also be lined up to take the CRC exam which allows you to be a CRC and opens up reciprocity for your LPC depending on states:

State Licensure Boards - CRCC COMMISSION ON REHABILITATION COUNSELOR CERTIFICATION

crccertification.com

Free school and damn near guaranteed employment afterward? Do-er up.

 

[The Child-Pepin Axis]

Thank you everyone for such prompt and generous replies. This is really valuable to me, and I feel like I've been saved from stepping on a landmine. Getting the master's had been my plan from the beginning, and I think that if I follow that route I'll probably end up pretty happy. The CRC program seemed like the best bet for me given my interest in working with older clients and all of the other reasons listed by others (especially reciprocity and the RSA grant).

Two people have briefly mentioned the possibility of pursuing a funded clinical PhD anyway. How realistic a possibility is that? While psychotherapy is my primary interest, unlike many people I've seen here asking about unfunded PsyDs I actually DO have strong secondary interests in research and teaching. It was really illuminating for me, in writing my history thesis, to be able to engage with relevant present-day psych research and put it in conversation/confrontation with the intellectual history of the field. Though I come from a humanities background I was really inspired by the ways in which researchers today are attempting to grapple with big social and philosophical problems from a scientific perspective, and employ them in clinical settings. What was compelling to me about the PsyD was that I thought it WOULD provide a path to potential research and teaching work, but I see now that this is likely not the case, or at least not coming from a program like the one I applied to.

A big part of this process has been confronting the extent to which I have a lot of limiting internal beliefs (and ignorance), about what I'm capable of/what opportunities are "for" me and people from backgrounds like mine. A psychology professor mentioned in passing to me once that I should consider PhD programs and I kind of waved her off because it seemed impossible. Would it make any sense to start the CRC program, and then attempt to transfer into or later apply for a funded PhD? My understanding is that the CRC path is terminal, or at least wouldn't lead to clinical psych? CRC makes a lot of sense, for my interests, as a means of becoming an LPC, but I don't know that I'd be interested in a doctoral path for clinical rehab. Now that I have a better understanding of the difference between the PhD and most PsyD programs, the PhD sounds like a better fit for what I'm interested in but also far more of a longshot, and it seems like it would be a big gamble to take another year off hoping it might come through.

I'll also add that I went to a comparable school to Reed (selective liberal arts, humanities major) and while my profs were lovely, wonderful and smart people, they are often wildly uninformed about things like real world career choices due to the path they chose and the bubble they inhabit.

Yup!

 

[R. Matey]

Two people have briefly mentioned the possibility of pursuing a funded clinical PhD anyway. How realistic a possibility is that? While psychotherapy is my primary interest, unlike many people I've seen here asking about unfunded PsyDs I actually DO have strong secondary interests in research and teaching.

Possible? Yes. More difficult than necessary given your career goals? Also yes.

Ph.D. programs run the gamut from clinical emphasis to research emphasis and funding tends to be more available in the equal-emphasis (or clinically balanced) and research emphasis programs. If you have the basic academic requirements like the undergrad psych coursework, good recommendation letters, and GPA, clinically balanced Ph.D. programs do not tend to require a huge amount of prior research experience (but they do require some) to be competitive so it's theoretically possible, but it will likely require moving once to the program (OHSU and UO are the only funded programs in OR and they're pretty research heavy from what I understand), once for internship, and maybe once for postdoc to get licensed. A time cost of about 6-7 years depending on the program and an opportunity cost somewhere in the tens of thousands of dollars provided you were fully funded.

The CRC program offers you the ability to train to be a psychotherapist in roughly two or three years. You will be a post-master's, pre-licensed trainee for about two more years making somewhere between ~$40k-$50k working in a community agency or private practice getting your hours towards licensure by practicing under a supervisor. As an aside, it's my opinion that this time can make or break a therapist. Therapists that do not seek out specialized training at this point in their careers have harder time establishing themselves than those that do. In any case, you can see the opportunity cost is far less and results in the same ideal outcome, aside from maybe losing the research and teaching angle.

It's really up to you. I'm not one to close doors--I've been preachy in the past about psychology being accessible to people from all walks of life. That said, you really need to consider what you see your day-to-day looking like. If you think therapy is your main with some research and teaching on the side, I'm going to tell you that all the psychologist hoops aren't worth it for this outcome, given the all the factors involved. If you really want to do research or teach full time, and you don't really care about how long it takes you, then by all means, I'd say give it your best go. If you're gonna go for it, I would suggest the counseling psych program at the UO. I know they've admitted many non-trads in the past and people I know have said good things.

 

[summerbabe]

Would it make any sense to start the CRC program, and then attempt to transfer into or later apply for a funded PhD?

No, you should view the CRC or any other MA/MS program as terminal.

Unfortunately, PhD/PsyD programs are not kind to transferring because somebody leaving a PhD to transfer elsewhere is a huge red flag since poor student retention can cause a program to be placed on probationary status or even lose accreditation. And credits/degrees/experience in related mental health fields is considered tangentially supporting an application at best because many program see themselves in a gatekeeping role of producing competent clinicians, which means having all of their students complete the same core requirements, whether they are fresh from undergrad or have worked decades in the field.

Some programs may allow you to transfer in credits so that you don't have to retake a class (say social psych) but you'd made up those credits with an elective or research credits so you aren't cutting down any time.

There are also a handful of funded PhD programs that require people to complete a terminal MA/MS degree before enrollment so a completed CRC degree might be relevant there.

It was really illuminating for me, in writing my history thesis, to be able to engage with relevant present-day psych research and put it in conversation/confrontation with the intellectual history of the field.

My undergrad humanities thesis had some very loose psych components but a funded PhD/PsyD program will want to see demonstrated engagement with the application of psychology research methods (lit review to identify a working research question, research design to figure out how to study this problem, novel data collection, data analyses, poster or manuscript submission, etc).

Your competition for funded PhD/PsyD programs will have some degree of this experience (and letter writers who can speak to their performance). Of course applications will speak to the types of aspirational research we'd like to do in grad school but this is still very much a "I have it or I don't" kind of thing.

If you don't have it, consider your application fee a likely donation to that graduate school and the transcript companies.

If you can get some substantial research experiences as a postbac, the person running that lab will likely also serve as a mentor and ally as you embark on securing a funded offer.

If that isn't an option, master's level licensure is the best bet as the lack of tangible research experience would only qualify you for the most profit driven of PsyD programs.

 

[The Child-Pepin Axis]

Ok thank you both, this is in alignment with my understanding going into this whole process -- that a doctoral path would've been a nice and attainable aspiration if I'd been younger and/or had really been lining my ducks up in a row, but at this point in my life and circumstances just doesn't make a huge amount of sense.

You will be a post-master's, pre-licensed trainee for about two more years making somewhere between ~$40k-$50k working in a community agency or private practice getting your hours towards licensure by practicing under a supervisor. As an aside, it's my opinion that this time can make or break a therapist. Therapists that do not seek out specialized training at this point in their careers have harder time establishing themselves than those that do.

I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but I'd be really interested in hearing more about this.

 

[ThatPsyGuy]

The CRC program offers you the ability to train to be a psychotherapist in roughly two or three years. You will be a post-master's, pre-licensed trainee for about two more years making somewhere between ~$40k-$50k working in a community agency or private practice getting your hours towards licensure by practicing under a supervisor. As an aside, it's my opinion that this time can make or break a therapist. Therapists that do not seek out specialized training at this point in their careers have harder time establishing themselves than those that do. In any case, you can see the opportunity cost is far less and results in the same ideal outcome, aside from maybe losing the research and teaching angle.

A post-master's CRC/LPC Rehab Counselor earns significantly more working for the state DHS or the VA while still getting hours for supervision. (Typically it's Voc Rehab Counselor positions. Looking at the salary on my state's job website shows them starting at ~56k+) You are still right about community mental health unless you're a team lead or something.

But @The Child-Pepin Axis you could always pivot from your Counseling M.A into teaching at the Community College level as an Adjunct Professor and try to scale up from there if teaching is that valuable to you. You'd probably still want your CRC/LPC -> LCPC since you mentioned you'd still like to conduct psychotherapy though.

 

[R. Matey]

A post-master's CRC/LPC Rehab Counselor earns significantly more working for the state DHS or the VA while still getting hours for supervision. (Typically it's Voc Rehab Counselor positions. Looking at the salary on my state's job website shows them starting at ~56k+) You are still right about community mental health unless you're a team lead or something.

Rehabilitation Counselors : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

Rehabilitation counselors help people with physical, mental, developmental, or emotional disabilities live independently.

www.bls.gov

This may vary drastically by state. The OP is in OR where the annual mean wage is $52k. Note the low pay for voc rehab positions at the national level.

 

[R. Matey]

I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but I'd be really interested in hearing more about this.

The master's level training will get you in the door, but in of itself can be insufficient to train you towards proficiency in psychotherapy. There are a number of institutes, training mechanisms, or post-master's fellowships that can provide good to decent training in psychotherapy alongside the supervision you're receiving from a licensing supervisor. If you want the VA, ask some of the other folks on this board since I don't know much about that world, but when I was an LPC-trainee, I did some training through ABCT to learn more about cognitive behavioral therapy while I getting my hours while working with my supervisor. That's just one example--the general idea is to not do the bare minimum and just meet with a supervisor, but also supplement your training after degree with didactics that can prepare you to specialize in a certain area of clinical practice.

 

[summerbabe]

I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but I'd be really interested in hearing more about this.

In addition to getting better at providing care, further training can help you find better jobs within an organization because like every other industry, there are low end crap jobs, decent jobs and excellent jobs.

For example, additional skills/training might be the difference between somebody who sees everything as a generalist vs being located in a specific clinic like PTSD, chronic pain, eating disorders, etc which can have perks like slightly reduced workload and more time/resources devoted to consultation and continued education. Plus it may help with promotions.

And if you ever decide you want to do private practice, especially full cash pay, specialization not only help you to connect with patient populations you ideally want to work with, which can reduce longterm burnout but often also helps you command higher pay than the going market rate for a standard therapy hour.

 

[The Child-Pepin Axis]

Thanks, this makes sense. I am not particularly interested in doing vocational rehab, and chose the CRC route to becoming an LPC because I *am* particularly interested in gerontology and it seemed CRC would provide more focused training on helping people navigate changes in ability. The local teaching hospital and VA are, as I understand it, strong in both regards (including doing research), so hopefully I can get some post-master's training there.

Of course I'm very aware that my interests may change while in school.

The master's level training will get you in the door, but in of itself can be insufficient to train you towards proficiency in psychotherapy. There are a number of institutes, training mechanisms, or post-master's fellowships that can provide good to decent training in psychotherapy alongside the supervision you're receiving from a licensing supervisor. If you want the VA, ask some of the other folks on this board since I don't know much about that world, but when I was an LPC-trainee, I did some training through ABCT to learn more about cognitive behavioral therapy while I getting my hours while working with my supervisor. That's just one example--the general idea is to not do the bare minimum and just meet with a supervisor, but also supplement your training after degree with didactics that can prepare you to specialize in a certain area of clinical practice.

Are you aware of reputable places in Oregon? It's a state with surprisingly poor mental health care (down with states like Mississippi and Alabama), and I've found it incredibly difficult to gauge the quality of different programs from internet research, things like google searches just reveal a lot of content-farm type sites without much useful information. Doing my own research had me thinking that the Wright Institute, for example, was a worthwhile and reputable institution, and it's destabilized my confidence in being able to figure this all out.

 

[R. Matey]

Are you aware of reputable places in Oregon? It's a state with surprisingly poor mental health care (down with states like Mississippi and Alabama), and I've found it incredibly difficult to gauge the quality of different programs from internet research, things like google searches just reveal a lot of content-farm type sites without much useful information. Doing my own research had me thinking that the Wright Institute, for example, was a worthwhile and reputable institution, and it's destabilized my confidence in being able to figure this all out.

You're asking excellent questions and I wish I had better answers for you. One of the critical issues in master's level training is the lack of standardized post-degree training towards licensure. In psychology, we have internships and fellowships built into institutions that provide such training, but those mechanisms are less available for counseling and social work. If someone wants to fund me, I'd happily dedicate my career to designing and evaluating post-degree fellowships for master's level clinicians that include an emphasis on evidenced based practice as it is a truly critical public health issue since these folks are much more likely to be patient facing than psychologists in many contexts. I know they do exist in some places, but I'm unaware of any in Portland.

OHSU is probably a good starting place though. I'd check with the psychiatry department to see what training they do offer. Some AMCs make their grand rounds publicly available and they may have resources that either of us are unaware. You were correct in an earlier post though that some of this might be putting the cart before the horse given that your pracs in graduate school might lead to such a traineeship. Your professors might also know things that I don't so it might also be worth an email to ask them about specialized training in psychotherapy post-degree.

You could also think about in what area you want to specialize and then find a supervisor with expertise in that area by searching through professional orgs associated with your area of interest. That person may also be able to point you towards training resources.

 

[futureapppsy2]

If you are to go with the Rehabilitation Counseling program, you should research if they have a Rehabilitation Services Administration Scholars program.

Pretty much your education would be funded through the RSA with the caveat that you have to pay back the number of years you were funded by working in a State rehabilitation agency or in a nonprofit rehabilitation agency, professional corporation, professional practice group, or related agency providing services to individuals with disabilities under an agreement with a designated State agency.

You'd also be lined up to take the CRC exam which allows you to be a CRC and opens up reciprocity for your LPC depending on states:

State Licensure Boards - CRCC COMMISSION ON REHABILITATION COUNSELOR CERTIFICATION

crccertification.com

Free school and damn near guaranteed employment afterward? Do-er up.

I wouldn’t recommend the RSA program if the OP has clinical practice goals, as the payback employment MUST have a primary task of Vocational Rehabilitation. Students who go for RSA for the funding but want to do clinical practice often end up resenting the program considerably. It’s a great program but only for students who are at least somewhat interested in the vocational rehabilitation side of rehab counseling.

 

[futureapppsy2]

You're asking excellent questions and I wish I had better answers for you. One of the critical issues in master's level training is the lack of standardized post-degree training towards licensure. In psychology, we have internships and fellowships built into institutions that provide such training, but those mechanisms are less available for counseling and social work. If someone wants to fund me, I'd happily dedicate my career to designing and evaluating post-degree fellowships for master's level clinicians that include an emphasis on evidenced based practice as it is a truly critical public health issue since these folks are much more likely to be patient facing than psychologists in many contexts. I know they do exist in some places, but I'm unaware of any in Portland.

OHSU is probably a good starting place though. I'd check with the psychiatry department to see what training they do offer. Some AMCs make their grand rounds publicly available and they may have resources that either of us are unaware. You were correct in an earlier post though that some of this might be putting the cart before the horse given that your pracs in graduate school might lead to such a traineeship. Your professors might also know things that I don't so it might also be worth an email to ask them about specialized training in psychotherapy post-degree.

You could also think about in what area you want to specialize and then find a supervisor with expertise in that area by searching through professional orgs associated with your area of interest. That person may also be able to point you towards training resources.

PSU also has a very active social work department that does a lot of cross-collaboration with OHSU through their social determinants of health program (though the person running that program is going on sabbatical from the university starting this summer, so things may change a lot with that in the immediate future).

 

[summerbabe]

Doing my own research had me thinking that the Wright Institute, for example, was a worthwhile and reputable institution, and it's destabilized my confidence in being able to figure this all out.

Stick with public universities (since they exist to serve the public good) and you should be fine.

Some programs within these schools will be better and some will be worse. But all license eligible programs do just that - give you a pathway to clinical practice.

From an outsiders perspective, there’s no rhyme or reason on what makes a quality program. But as you likely experienced at Reed, some profs were very popular and reputation/word of mouth filled their specific sections quickly while the same section taught by others had little demand.

This is where local networking can help you to further identify your options. And sometimes, we will find that the best option for our budget, geography, part-time status, etc isn’t phenomenal but that’s ok since there will always be ways to round out one’s training (if you’re motivated).

 

[The Child-Pepin Axis]

Thank you everyone again for such great insight. One (hopefully) last question: when is an appropriate time to begin researching/networking for these post-master's opportunities, and what's the best way to set myself up for them? I got lunch the other day with an old lab partner who's also from a low-SES background, and we were realizing that there are ways in which despite being highly motivated, we have perhaps been doing what someone else called "the bare minimum" -- not because we're lazy, but because it can be our tendency to jump through the institutional hoops laid in front of us and trust that it'll somehow work out, and then only realize after the fact that there was this whole separate set of stuff we were supposed to be doing but didn't know about.

What is an effective way to network? I think I am generally very good in one-on-one and small group situations, but can tend to freeze in large rooms (particularly as I still struggle with imposter syndrome). Is it appropriate, for example, to research people already working in the fields I'm interested in, and send them emails asking them how they made it to where they are? Should I be trying to join professional orgs on a student basis? What are good ways to assess the credibility of the people I reach out to?

One of the critical issues in master's level training is the lack of standardized post-degree training towards licensure. In psychology, we have internships and fellowships built into institutions that provide such training, but those mechanisms are less available for counseling and social work. If someone wants to fund me, I'd happily dedicate my career to designing and evaluating post-degree fellowships for master's level clinicians that include an emphasis on evidenced based practice as it is a truly critical public health issue since these folks are much more likely to be patient facing than psychologists in many contexts. I know they do exist in some places, but I'm unaware of any in Portland.

Well I'd be happy to help with this in a few years! Honestly I have learned far more from a few days reading this forum (not just this thread, but searching through past ones) than I did from the career services people at my alma mater. I wish I'd found it a few years ago, as I probably would've made some different decisions in my undergrad years. No regrets, I did the best I could with the information I had, but this has been a tremendous resource.

 

[The Child-Pepin Axis]

I wouldn’t recommend the RSA program if the OP has clinical practice goals, as the payback employment MUST have a primary task of Vocational Rehabilitation. Students who go for RSA for the funding but want to do clinical practice often end up resenting the program considerably. It’s a great program but only for students who are at least somewhat interested in the vocational rehabilitation side of rehab counseling.

This may vary by regional office or something? I have been told that the RSA grants are actually quite flexible, I met someone at a party who was able to convince them that her work at a suicide hotline qualified toward satisfying her obligations (though it did take some convincing). One thing I *am* good at it is reading the fine print on financial documents, so I'll be careful when the time comes. Oregon thankfully has some other state-level assistance programs, particularly for people working in rural communities, so thankfully I am not putting all of my eggs in the RSA basket.

 

[futureapppsy2]

This may vary by regional office or something? I have been told that the RSA grants are actually quite flexible, I met someone at a party who was able to convince them that her work at a suicide hotline qualified toward satisfying her obligations (though it did take some convincing). One thing I *am* good at it is reading the fine print on financial documents, so I'll be careful when the time comes. Oregon thankfully has some other state-level assistance programs, particularly for people working in rural communities, so thankfully I am not putting all of my eggs in the RSA basket.

Nope, it varies by federal administration and then by project officer (which aren’t regionally assigned, as far as I know). I’m shocked that a suicide hotline would be approved, because I’ve known things much closer to VR than that that have been not given the green light. I’m wondering if that person gave you all the details.

 

[R. Matey]

One (hopefully) last question: when is an appropriate time to begin researching/networking for these post-master's opportunities, and what's the best way to set myself up for them?

I'd start looking around the last year of grad school, but maybe talk to profs before that and make your intentions about seeking out a formal training experience post-degree well-understood. Also, conferences in your area of interest might lead you somewhere.