Trump, Doctors and Taxes.

[PainDrain]

So I am not sure I will benefit from this but I do know this plan is basically Art Laffer economics coming as tax cuts. This really isn't going to help the middle class and is unlikely to boost the economy to the proposed 3-4% sustained growth.

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[caligas]

But would you really

Ok, maybe not all of them, but some of the ones that I take care of on a daily basis. For the most part they are sweet and simple, can't hold it against them.

 

[deleted171991]

So I am not sure I will benefit from this but I do know this plan is basically Art Laffer economics coming as tax cuts. This really isn't going to help the middle class and is unlikely to boost the economy to the proposed 3-4% sustained growth.

We all know who's going to benefit, except for the suckers who believe everything they are told.

 

[CommonMan]

Bottom line is I voted for Trump but now I realize it was a mistake. His agenda is simple, transfer as much wealth to the super wealthy at the expense of the commonman. Example #1) transfer public lands to the states so the wealthiest can buy them. Example #2) Abolish the estate tax so the super wealthy can accumulate more and more wealth. Example #3) put in a tax increase that will hit the higher income people (MD's) so he can say I'm giving a break to the middle class and taxing the wealthy but in reality the top 1% will get hugh tax breaks.
Guy is a con man.

 

[PainDrain]

Bottom line is I voted for Trump but now I realize it was a mistake. His agenda is simple, transfer as much wealth to the super wealthy at the expense of the commonman. Example #1) transfer public lands to the states so the wealthiest can buy them. Example #2) Abolish the estate tax so the super wealthy can accumulate more and more wealth. Example #3) put in a tax increase that will hit the higher income people (MD's) so he can say I'm giving a break to the middle class and taxing the wealthy but in reality the top 1% will get hugh tax breaks.
Guy is a con man.

So true. This is wealth redistribution to the tippity top.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

Bottom line is I voted for Trump but now I realize it was a mistake. His agenda is simple, transfer as much wealth to the super wealthy at the expense of the commonman. Example #1) transfer public lands to the states so the wealthiest can buy them. Example #2) Abolish the estate tax so the super wealthy can accumulate more and more wealth. Example #3) put in a tax increase that will hit the higher income people (MD's) so he can say I'm giving a break to the middle class and taxing the wealthy but in reality the top 1% will get hugh tax breaks.
Guy is a con man.

It takes a grown up to admit a mistake. You're far better than the guy in office.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

It takes a grown up to admit a mistake. You're far better than the guy in office.

I suspect 99% of American's are. And I don't even dislike Trump all THAT much.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

I really miss a good Trump bashing! I'm still surprised he's not in jail.

 

[leviathan]

So is this going to be helpful or harmful for physicians? The federal government in Canada is currently trying to raise taxes on doctors and other incorporated people / small businesses. All I need are more reasons to move to the US.

 

[DoctwoB]

Too many unknowns at this point. Will the 25% “pass through” rate apply to income derived from private physician practices? Big benefit. Eliminating state, local, and property tax deductions will hurt almost all physicians that itemize taxes. Doubling standard deduction will help some, but not most physicians, as most will likely still be itemizing taxes (and double only applies to childless as proposed right now). Estate tax cut won’t affect most of us but benefit the very very wealthy. Cutting capital gains will help physicians who play the stock market a lot. As to how shuffling the tax brackets and rates will effect us, that can’t be known until the levels at which tax brackets going into effect is known.

Some of these changes aren’t necessarily bad or good, but will be a huge upset to the status quo and thus get huge pushback. For example Currently the tax structure subsidizes home ownership, which may not be a good thing in many respects. However, pulling the rug out from people who bought houses under the current incentive structure is morally questionable and will get huge blowback.

 

[deleted171991]

So is this going to be helpful or harmful for physicians? The federal government in Canada is currently trying to raise taxes on doctors and other incorporated people / small businesses. All I need are more reasons to move to the US.

So, Mr. President, when are you going to build that wall with Canada?

 

[deleted162650]

State and local tax deductions are largely eliminated by the AMT in the current system for a lot of us.

 

[Precedexed Out]

Bottom line is I voted for Trump but now I realize it was a mistake. His agenda is simple, transfer as much wealth to the super wealthy at the expense of the commonman. Example #1) transfer public lands to the states so the wealthiest can buy them. Example #2) Abolish the estate tax so the super wealthy can accumulate more and more wealth. Example #3) put in a tax increase that will hit the higher income people (MD's) so he can say I'm giving a break to the middle class and taxing the wealthy but in reality the top 1% will get hugh tax breaks.
Guy is a con man.

After all the taxes that an individual pays throughout their life, you should get taxed for dying? I think this estate tax is stupid. I know farmers and small business owners that experience great financial difficulties or distress because of the so called "wealth." Government taxes and taxes and taxes, enough is enough.

 

[Precedexed Out]

So, Mr. President, when are you going to build that wall with Canada?

Currently, a wall with Canada isn't needed. We need a wall to keep the southern illegal immigrant flow out of this country. We aren't a dumping ground or welfare state for the world. America first.

 

[Precedexed Out]

Too many unknowns at this point. Will the 25% “pass through” rate apply to income derived from private physician practices? Big benefit. Eliminating state, local, and property tax deductions will hurt almost all physicians that itemize taxes. Doubling standard deduction will help some, but not most physicians, as most will likely still be itemizing taxes (and double only applies to childless as proposed right now). Estate tax cut won’t affect most of us but benefit the very very wealthy. Cutting capital gains will help physicians who play the stock market a lot. As to how shuffling the tax brackets and rates will effect us, that can’t be known until the levels at which tax brackets going into effect is known.

Some of these changes aren’t necessarily bad or good, but will be a huge upset to the status quo and thus get huge pushback. For example Currently the tax structure subsidizes home ownership, which may not be a good thing in many respects. However, pulling the rug out from people who bought houses under the current incentive structure is morally questionable and will get huge blowback.

Yes, there are a lot of unknowns. The real problem isn't this tax plan, it is anything Trump proposes. According to some, he can't do anything correctly. IMHO, he is doing a good job at putting America and American citizens first.

 

[Precedexed Out]

I really miss a good Trump bashing! I'm still surprised he's not in jail.

He hasn't done anything illegal so why are you surprised? Even Adam Schiff hasn't been running his dumb mouth about Trump like in January. The writing is on the wall about Russia, and it isn't the outcome the desperate democrats where hoping for. Hillary lost because she was a flawed, failed, and horrible candidate.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

Are you Russian?

 

[PainDrain]

After all the taxes that an individual pays throughout their life, you should get taxed for dying? I think this estate tax is stupid. I know farmers and small business owners that experience great financial difficulties or distress because of the so called "wealth." Government taxes and taxes and taxes, enough is enough.

Mr Trump is this you posting on here? Seriously, you speaka the English much like comrade Trump.

 

[Precedexed Out]

Mr Trump is this you posting on here? Seriously, you speaka the English much like comrade Trump.

Sure is man. Make America Great Again #MAGA

 

[Precedexed Out]

Are you Russian?

Yes, most definitely. Russia is the new blame all for everything that goes wrong for democrats.

"Why did Hillary lose on November 8?" Typical response from a democrat, "Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Comey, Russia, Weiner, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Comey......etc" Has nothing to do with a flawed candidate or a platform that doesn't prioritize American citizens. The democratic party creates problems or greatly magnifies them, problems that don't really matter to average Americans. That is why they lost and are now getting their @rses kicked in fundraising.

 

[GA8314]

Ok, maybe not all of them, but some of the ones that I take care of on a daily basis. For the most part they are sweet and simple, can't hold it against them.

You know, "******" isn't exactly the embodiment of political correctness, which the left seems to worship at the alter these days....... (just giving you a hard time)

 

[GA8314]

Yes, most definitely. Russia is the new blame all for everything that goes wrong for democrats.

"Why did Hillary lose on November 8?" Typical response from a democrat, "Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Comey, Russia, Weiner, Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia, Comey......etc" Has nothing to do with a flawed candidate or a platform that doesn't prioritize American citizens. The democratic party creates problems or greatly magnifies them, problems that don't really matter to average Americans. That is why they lost and are now getting their @rses kicked in fundraising.

This Russia narrative is getting so overinflated. I will apologize to all on this forum as well as advocate Trumps impeachment should something come of this but I strongly suspect not.

In fact, given his reasonable approach to Russia and Putin during his campaign, and given Hillary's demonization of Russia and Putin, is it really any surprise that the Russian apparatus may have been attempting to influence the election. I DO believe they would have taken out ads and done everything in their power to see ANYONE other than war mongering Hilary in power in the US, because of her anti-Russian rhetoric.

But, does that mean Trump colluded? I think not. I say they acted under their own interests (the Russians), as would any country with the resources to do so.

In fact, the chicken hawks who seem so baffled and appalled at this tactic seem not to recall all of the meddling the US did, and does, all over the world in order to influence foreign elections, including I am sure, in Russia.

 

[deleted171991]

The Russia narrative is considered "overinflated" only by people who are so ******ed uninformed that they have no idea what a fantastic propaganda machine the Soviet Union had and Putin inherited. These guys have been doing it for a century. I wouldn't put anything beyond the them. What we see is just the tip of the iceberg.

Read up on Russian history. That country was a true democracy for maybe a blink of its existence, right after the fall of the Soviet Union. It has about the same tradition of autocracy as America of free speech.

There have been Trump voters right on this forum who were so proud they were not watching the main American broadcast channels, or reading mainstream American newspapers. No, siree, they were getting their "non fake" news directly from Russia Today, aka RT (plus Facebook, Twitter and all the other places where fact checking is for "losers"). If that's not ******ed, I don't know what is. And now there is clear proof that the Russian propaganda machine has been all over the American social media. What else do Americans need to understand that these people are not friends of the US (or any other nation in the world)? They care only about one thing: the Russian Empire.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

The Russia narrative is considered "overinflated" only by people who are so ******ed uninformed that they have no idea what a fantastic propaganda machine the Soviet Union had and Putin inherited. These guys have been doing it for a century. I wouldn't put anything beyond the them. What we see is just the tip of the iceberg.

Read up on Russian history. That country was a true democracy for maybe a blink of its existence, right after the fall of the Soviet Union. It has about the same tradition of autocracy as America of free speech.

There were Trump voters right on this forum who were so proud they were not watching the main American broadcast channels, or reading mainstream American newspapers. No, siree, they were getting their "non fake" news directly from Russia Today, aka RT (plus Facebook, Twitter and all the other places where fact checking is for "losers"). If that's not ******ed, I don't know what is. And now there is clear proof that the Russian propaganda machine has been all over the American social media. What else do Americans need to understand that these people are not friends of the US (or any other nation in the world)? They care only about one thing: the Russian Empire.

The nuance they use to influence people through their fake social media accounts is incredibly impressive. They are/were able to inflame somewhat controlled racist/xenophobic feelings among whites and anti-establishment feelings among minorities with absolute precision. These accounts had HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of "likes" and shares.

While I wouldn't say they "got Trump elected", anyone who thinks they didn't play a part in the psychotic sociopolitical climate we have right now is just in denial. And the fact that their efforts were virtually lock-step with the narrative the Trump campaign was pushing certainly didn't hurt his candidacy.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The nuance they use to influence people through their fake social media accounts is incredibly impressive. They are/were able to inflame somewhat controlled racist/xenophobic feelings among whites and anti-establishment feelings among minorities with absolute precision. These accounts had HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of "likes" and shares.

While I wouldn't say they "got Trump elected", anyone who thinks they didn't play a part in the psychotic sociopolitical climate we have right now is just in denial. And the fact that their efforts were virtually lock-step with the narrative the Trump campaign was pushing certainly didn't hurt his candidacy.

I don't believe anyone is disputed those facts. The contentious points are whether anything illegal happened, whether that's actually tampering with the election results themselves or actively colluding with the Trump campaign.

I'm not a Trump supporter, but I would be surprised if either of those were actually proven to be true.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

I don't believe anyone is disputed those facts. The contentious points are whether anything illegal happened, whether that's actually tampering with the election results themselves or actively colluding with the Trump campaign.

I'm not a Trump supporter, but I would be surprised if either of those were actually proven to be true.

That's ONE question of many. I agree, nothing illegal yet.

Just as important is how we're going to prevent it and get even with these f@ckers. And that will take an administration that's not so self-conscious that it's afraid to admit there's a problem.

 

[Precedexed Out]

This Russia narrative is getting so overinflated. I will apologize to all on this forum as well as advocate Trumps impeachment should something come of this but I strongly suspect not.

In fact, given his reasonable approach to Russia and Putin during his campaign, and given Hillary's demonization of Russia and Putin, is it really any surprise that the Russian apparatus may have been attempting to influence the election. I DO believe they would have taken out ads and done everything in their power to see ANYONE other than war mongering Hilary in power in the US, because of her anti-Russian rhetoric.

But, does that mean Trump colluded? I think not. I say they acted under their own interests (the Russians), as would any country with the resources to do so.

In fact, the chicken hawks who seem so baffled and appalled at this tactic seem not to recall all of the meddling the US did, and does, all over the world in order to influence foreign elections, including I am sure, in Russia.

Given the length of this so called investigation and nothing occurring in combination with the completely changed tone of the democratic party, it is safe to assume that nothing related to Trump-Russia conspiring together occurred or will ever be proven.

 

[Precedexed Out]

That's ONE question of many. I agree, nothing illegal yet.

Just as important is how we're going to prevent it and get even with these f@ckers. And that will take an administration that's not so self-conscious that it's afraid to admit there's a problem.

Foreign interference in elections is nothing new and is likely unchanged from previous elections. It just so happens this time the democratic party was humiliated and so they needed something to blame. It certainly doesn't have anymore of an effect than the collusion between CNN, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, and ABC does.

 

[Precedexed Out]

The nuance they use to influence people through their fake social media accounts is incredibly impressive. They are/were able to inflame somewhat controlled racist/xenophobic feelings among whites and anti-establishment feelings among minorities with absolute precision. These accounts had HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of "likes" and shares.

While I wouldn't say they "got Trump elected", anyone who thinks they didn't play a part in the psychotic sociopolitical climate we have right now is just in denial. And the fact that their efforts were virtually lock-step with the narrative the Trump campaign was pushing certainly didn't hurt his candidacy.

People voted for Trump because they didn't like the direction of the country. Obama was a disaster despite being propped up by most of the media for eight years. People voted against Hillary because she represented more of the same corruption. If the democratic party would focus more on making the lives better for US citizens and less on the "rights" of illegal immigrants they would have a better outcome. As far as I'm concerned and the majority of US citizens, illegal immigrants have no rights. Trump's whole campaign message was America first and that theme is what propelled him to victory over Hillary, still not sure what her message was other than I'm a woman and Trump is bad.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

Given the length of this so called investigation and nothing occurring in combination with the completely changed tone of the democratic party, it is safe to assume that nothing related to Trump-Russia conspiring together occurred or will ever be proven.

Wow.

I'm sure you complained constantly about "leaks" before Moeller. Now he's in charge and we get very few leaks about the investigation, which is good. Except now you think it gives you the opportunity to claim that all's good. Which you don't know because Moeller doesn't leak much.

 

[Precedexed Out]

The Russia narrative is considered "overinflated" only by people who are so ******ed uninformed that they have no idea what a fantastic propaganda machine the Soviet Union had and Putin inherited. These guys have been doing it for a century. I wouldn't put anything beyond the them. What we see is just the tip of the iceberg.

Read up on Russian history. That country was a true democracy for maybe a blink of its existence, right after the fall of the Soviet Union. It has about the same tradition of autocracy as America of free speech.

There have been Trump voters right on this forum who were so proud they were not watching the main American broadcast channels, or reading mainstream American newspapers. No, siree, they were getting their "non fake" news directly from Russia Today, aka RT (plus Facebook, Twitter and all the other places where fact checking is for "losers"). If that's not ******ed, I don't know what is. And now there is clear proof that the Russian propaganda machine has been all over the American social media. What else do Americans need to understand that these people are not friends of the US (or any other nation in the world)? They care only about one thing: the Russian Empire.

For being so critical of Trump, do you have the same criticisms of the democratic party and Hillary's emails, Clinton Foundation, and her other crooked ventures and actions? Talk about Hillary, Bill, speeches, Russia, and uranium. Then we can see the real corruption. Or maybe Hillary using her position as Secretary of State for personal gain. We have evidence in emails this occurred, but that doesn't seem to bother you even a little. People voted for Trump because the democratic party wasn't doing anything for them and didn't offer any hope during the campaign. ******ed is anyone who won't at least acknowledge that.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

People voted for Trump because they didn't like the direction of the country. Obama was a disaster despite being propped up by most of the media for eight years. People voted against Hillary because she represented more of the same corruption. If the democratic party would focus more on making the lives better for US citizens and less on the "rights" of illegal immigrants they would have a better outcome. As far as I'm concerned and the majority of US citizens, illegal immigrants have no rights. Trump's whole campaign message was America first and that theme is what propelled him to victory over Hillary, still not sure what her message was other than I'm a woman and Trump is bad.

Wow. Yeah, things were terrible. And now they're great. Good assessment.

 

[Precedexed Out]

Wow.

I'm sure you complained constantly about "leaks" before Moeller. Now he's in charge and we get very few leaks about the investigation, which is good. Except now you think it gives you the opportunity to claim that all's good. Which you don't know because Moeller doesn't leak much.

Mueller. I'll complain about leaks regardless of who is president. Obama was the one who pardoned Bradley Manning, one of the greatest leakers ever and those leaks did put people in danger. Mueller is clearly biased as evidence from political donations, if he had evidence of Trump-Russia like the fake news media hoped for in November-June, he would move quickly. Instead, he can't find anything so he is investigating everything about Trump and anything related hoping to something, just anything and about anything, not necessarily related to Russia.

 

[Precedexed Out]

Wow. Yeah, things were terrible. And now they're great. Good assessment.

Trump has been in office for less than a year, it takes time. Also, I would like to add the majority of republicans are just as corrupt as the democrats. Look at the incompetence of our government. Obama had a completely controlled democratic government for his first two years. Did he pass immigration reform? No. Trump has republican majority in the house and senate? Did the republicans pass healthcare reform the screamed about for 7 years? No. Coincidence? No. They are part of the ruling class. Suppose ole' Jebby was elected, do you think the pushback would have been this bad? My opinion is no.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

Foreign interference in elections is nothing new and is likely unchanged from previous elections. It just so happens this time the democratic party was humiliated and so they needed something to blame. It certainly doesn't have anymore of an effect than the collusion between CNN, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, and ABC does.

You and the other propaganda news connoisseurs are why we're in the mess we're in today, and why there needs to be bipartisan efforts to make sure trash news doesn't make its way to the rubes' smart phones.

 

[Precedexed Out]

You and the other propaganda news connoisseurs are why we're in the mess we're in today, and why there needs to be bipartisan efforts to make sure trash news doesn't make its way to the rubes' smart phones.

The mess we are in today? Our country is doing better now than under Obama and things will continue to improve. I'm going to guess you support the same party that worked against Bernie and watch CNN (at least some times) which is the organization that was giving Hillary debate questions.

You assume people are too stupid to vote for what will make their life better. People vote based on their living situation and circumstances. Examples included taxes, healthcare, illegal immigration, climate change, minority issues, and many more. These are all real issues that can impact lives. Obamacare is failing and was designed to fail so the government could save it with single payer. The problem, Trump won. Illegal immigration, no secret democrats want open borders and amnesty for all, and the motivation is purely for votes and political power. US citizens do not want illegal immigrants in this country and want control of immigrants. Black lives certainly didn't improve with Obama, but again, the democrats have them exactly where they want them, dependent on the government and exploit them for votes.

People are not blind dumb zombies who see an advertisement on social media and do what it says.

Regulating news is a terrible idea. It will eventually fall into the wrong hands or a corrupt administration, then we'll have something like North Korea. Government and media don't mix. Americans aren't so stupid they need the government to regulate where they get their news from. They can feel it. Think about it, if you're an average citizen and CBS evening news is telling you wages have gone up 25% because of the wonderful government regulations and amnesty for all, but your wages have been stuck in the same place for the past five years along with all your neighbors and maybe some of your family members lost their jobs or had their wages cut due to an newly legalized citizens (aka former illegal immigrants), do you think those people are going to vote for more of the same? That answer is simply no.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

That's ONE question of many. I agree, nothing illegal yet.

Just as important is how we're going to prevent it and get even with these f@ckers. And that will take an administration that's not so self-conscious that it's afraid to admit there's a problem.

As far as preventing the social media/fake news aspect - not sure we can. The problem there is so many people don't trust our main legitimate news sources (CNN, CBS, MSNBC, NYT, and so on) anymore. I know I really don't, and I like to think I'm a fairly middle-of-the-road, rational guy.

 

[GA8314]

The Russia narrative is considered "overinflated" only by people who are so ******ed uninformed that they have no idea what a fantastic propaganda machine the Soviet Union had and Putin inherited. These guys have been doing it for a century. I wouldn't put anything beyond the them. What we see is just the tip of the iceberg.

Read up on Russian history. That country was a true democracy for maybe a blink of its existence, right after the fall of the Soviet Union. It has about the same tradition of autocracy as America of free speech.

There have been Trump voters right on this forum who were so proud they were not watching the main American broadcast channels, or reading mainstream American newspapers. No, siree, they were getting their "non fake" news directly from Russia Today, aka RT (plus Facebook, Twitter and all the other places where fact checking is for "losers"). If that's not ******ed, I don't know what is. And now there is clear proof that the Russian propaganda machine has been all over the American social media. What else do Americans need to understand that these people are not friends of the US (or any other nation in the world)? They care only about one thing: the Russian Empire.

Yeah. I know.

But, that does not imply a "natural" collusion within the Trump administration. I'm SURE they're acting on their own perception of their interests. I'm SURE they would deem Trump to be more in their interests given his more reconciliatory tone, versus the hostile rhetoric of Hilary's campaign.

And, don't think the U.S. hasn't mettled in a myriad of foreign elections. Hell, we've overthrown 2 governments, directly, in the past 15 years, several attempts, and who knows how many opposition parties we've funded. So, the old Soviet apparatus isn't the only one live and well.

This is why I find it so interesting how people are actually shocked at their probable interference. That's what is naive.

 

[GA8314]

The nuance they use to influence people through their fake social media accounts is incredibly impressive. They are/were able to inflame somewhat controlled racist/xenophobic feelings among whites and anti-establishment feelings among minorities with absolute precision. These accounts had HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of "likes" and shares.

While I wouldn't say they "got Trump elected", anyone who thinks they didn't play a part in the psychotic sociopolitical climate we have right now is just in denial. And the fact that their efforts were virtually lock-step with the narrative the Trump campaign was pushing certainly didn't hurt his candidacy.

Any state power with an established intelligence service, and without agreements in order (and even with them I imagine major espionage goes on even amongst "allies"), will utilize that apparatus to their advantage. Do you think we don't do the exact same thing? This abhorrent meddling that people seem so naive to??

 

[GA8314]

That's ONE question of many. I agree, nothing illegal yet.

Just as important is how we're going to prevent it and get even with these f@ckers. And that will take an administration that's not so self-conscious that it's afraid to admit there's a problem.

We've been playing espionage with the Russians for the past 100 years or more. "Getting back" occurs likely behind the scenes all the time, but you can bet it's tit for tat. As it's always been.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

We've been playing espionage with the Russians for the past 100 years or more. "Getting back" occurs likely behind the scenes all the time, but you can bet it's tit for tat. As it's always been.

I don't dispute that to some degree. But their intelligence services and espionage have zero oversight. We put limits on what we spend, how we spend, and the way we meddle. It's not really "tit-for-tat." Not to mention the fact that we have freedoms that make it far easier for foreign spy/propaganda agencies to get directly to our people and manipulate them.

 

[GA8314]

You and the other propaganda news connoisseurs are why we're in the mess we're in today, and why there needs to be bipartisan efforts to make sure trash news doesn't make its way to the rubes' smart phones.

How do you propose doing this? Who will decide what is accurate news versus news with a little or a lot of misinformation?
Maybe you're just a fan of censoring information you don't agree with.

And, on that topic, let's all be honest with ourselves about one thing. None of us are in the intelligence services. We often don't know who leaked what, for what specific reason, and if the leak is even true. That's what intelligence agencies do. They create uncertainty, spread misinformation/partially true information, spinned information and other methods we probably haven't even considered. And yes, they look for fault lines in order to destabilize their adversary. So, our "information" is inherently poor in my opinion. We can do our best, but we are at a major disadvantage.

 

[GA8314]

I don't dispute that to some degree. But their intelligence services and espionage have zero oversight. We put limits on what we spend, how we spend, and the way we meddle. It's not really "tit-for-tat." Not to mention the fact that we have freedoms that make it far easier for foreign spy/propaganda agencies to get directly to our people and manipulate them.

Looking at history, it seem that our checks and balances (of what we actually KNOW) has been wholly inadequate over the years.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

The mess we are in today? Our country is doing better now than under Obama and things will continue to improve. I'm going to guess you support the same party that worked against Bernie and watch CNN (at least some times) which is the organization that was giving Hillary debate questions.

You assume people are too stupid to vote for what will make their life better. People vote based on their living situation and circumstances. Examples included taxes, healthcare, illegal immigration, climate change, minority issues, and many more. These are all real issues that can impact lives. Obamacare is failing and was designed to fail so the government could save it with single payer. The problem, Trump won. Illegal immigration, no secret democrats want open borders and amnesty for all, and the motivation is purely for votes and political power. US citizens do not want illegal immigrants in this country and want control of immigrants. Black lives certainly didn't improve with Obama, but again, the democrats have them exactly where they want them, dependent on the government and exploit them for votes.

People are not blind dumb zombies who see an advertisement on social media and do what it says.

Regulating news is a terrible idea. It will eventually fall into the wrong hands or a corrupt administration, then we'll have something like North Korea. Government and media don't mix. Americans aren't so stupid they need the government to regulate where they get their news from. They can feel it. Think about it, if you're an average citizen and CBS evening news is telling you wages have gone up 25% because of the wonderful government regulations and amnesty for all, but your wages have been stuck in the same place for the past five years along with all your neighbors and maybe some of your family members lost their jobs or had their wages cut due to an newly legalized citizens (aka former illegal immigrants), do you think those people are going to vote for more of the same? That answer is simply no.

You misunderstood. My fault. I don't mean "regulate news". I'm fine with AMERICAN trash like Breitbart. I don't think we should allow foreign fake propaganda to push foreign interests.

And calling voters "blind dumb zombies" are your words, not mine. But there were literally hundreds of thousands of people, democrats and republicans, white and black, that shared Russian propaganda with each other.

If you think that didn't effect people's decisions at the voting booth, your wrong. And if you think Putin and the oligarchs don't know how to manipulate with their millions of dollars and 100 years of practice, you're naive.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

How do you propose doing this? Who will decide what is accurate news versus news with a little or a lot of misinformation?
Maybe you're just a fan of censoring information you don't agree with.

And, on that topic, let's all be honest with ourselves about one thing. None of us are in the intelligence services. We often don't know who leaked what, for what specific reason, and if the leak is even true. That's what intelligence agencies do. They create uncertainty, spread misinformation/partially true information, spinned information and other methods we probably haven't even considered. And yes, they look for fault lines in order to destabilize their adversary. So, our "information" is inherently poor in my opinion. We can do our best, but we are at a major disadvantage.

No good American wants anyone to censor news. The president says maybe we should, but I wouldn't consider him a good American. My opinion.

Leaked info throughout the last 8 months has been largely accurate, whether from the White House, investigations, or otherwise. Clearly there's an agenda when it gets leaked, no question. Whether they're trying to "destabilize" like you say, or just trying to get out something they think the country needs to know depends on your politics I guess.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

The mess we are in today? Our country is doing better now than under Obama and things will continue to improv

Ha!
When doctor's can believe this, is there any wonder why 30-something percent of the country believe the administration when they say Puerto Rico is a real feel-good story?

 

[GravelRider]

As far as preventing the social media/fake news aspect - not sure we can. The problem there is so many people don't trust our main legitimate news sources (CNN, CBS, MSNBC, NYT, and so on) anymore. I know I really don't, and I like to think I'm a fairly middle-of-the-road, rational guy.

So where do you get your news? Some guy with internet access? Who is to say those "blogs" and twitter feeds are any more trustworthy? Trust is a curious thing. So is expertise. Many patients don't trust our expertise anymore. Instead they trust some doofus with internet access who makes a website declaring vaccines as dangerous.

That doofus with internet access is no different than the corporate owned media. At the end of the day it is all about revenue and profit. That doofus with internet access makes money every time someone clicks on his website. Why is that seen as any more legitimate?

 

[GA8314]

No good American wants anyone to censor news. The president says maybe we should, but I wouldn't consider him a good American. My opinion.

Leaked info throughout the last 8 months has been largely accurate, whether from the White House, investigations, or otherwise. Clearly there's an agenda when it gets leaked, no question. Whether they're trying to "destabilize" like you say, or just trying to get out something they think the country needs to know depends on your politics I guess.

It's a new world we live in but somehow I don't find it hard to envision foreign services bribing American journalists during the print age to influence the narrative. I'm quite sure that has been done. Even then, journalists didn't make a lot of money and one could see how easy it may be to justify. Not to mention that from my understanding, they would naturally target someone vulnerable (going through a costly divorce, in debt, gambling problems etc.) Now, it's just being done more directly in the form of media companies.

I would hope none of us stoop to censorship. Very dangerous slope and reminds me of the thought police.

I mentioned "destabilization" because foreign adversaries could very easily exploit what they view as fault lines within the US, for example with exacerbating race relations, or

 

[GA8314]

So where do you get your news? Some guy with internet access? Who is to say those "blogs" and twitter feeds are any more trustworthy? Trust is a curious thing. So is expertise. Many patients don't trust our expertise anymore. Instead they trust some doofus with internet access who makes a website declaring vaccines as dangerous.

That doofus with internet access is no different than the corporate owned media. At the end of the day it is all about revenue and profit. That doofus with internet access makes money every time someone clicks on his website. Why is that seen as any more legitimate?

I totally agree that media has become rather clickbait. I also do not see how CNN and MSNBC somehow became the "legitimate" "reliable" sources of news media.

One might argue that these large corporations are extremely self interested (profits and survival), and that they (including Fox) have represented the AMERICAN propaganda platform to some extent. After all, I didn't see much in the way of serious investigative journalism as pertained to the invasion of Iraq and other misadventures. The establishment wanted war, and the mainstream companies fell right in line with only a whiff of disapproval.

In other words, they know the hand that feeds them (FCC rights etc.), but also greatly cater to their audience. As do the fledgling independent online media companies. They know their audience. So, Fox's news has a bent to it. CNN as well. MSNBC also. Same with just about every media company.

And never before has it been easier and thus more profitable to cater to the inherent tendencies of your consumer base. Look at how much google knows about you via search history. Companies of all kinds can access your online shopping history and all the sudden ads for those products start showing up randomly when online.....Same goes to the media companies large and small to the extent that to ignore what their audience wants to hear is business suicide. And, again, they DO know their audience....

So, I'm not even saying it's a conspiracy. But, rather a natural outgrowth of modern media. The alternative, state sponsored programming has even more pitfalls for obvious reasons IMO.

Meantime we all walk and talk as if we have good knowledge which is unbiased. I say we are all more wrong than we want to think...

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

So where do you get your news? Some guy with internet access? Who is to say those "blogs" and twitter feeds are any more trustworthy? Trust is a curious thing. So is expertise. Many patients don't trust our expertise anymore. Instead they trust some doofus with internet access who makes a website declaring vaccines as dangerous.

That doofus with internet access is no different than the corporate owned media. At the end of the day it is all about revenue and profit. That doofus with internet access makes money every time someone clicks on his website. Why is that seen as any more legitimate?

That's an awful lot of assumptions you're making there. I don't do Twitter and the only blog I follow is Dr. Grumpy. But nice try.

I generally read a conservative source and a liberal source (and an international one if I can) If they agree on something, I feel reasonably safe that it's at least mostly true.