"Trauma Consult"

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toxic-megacolon

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I was wondering how prevalent "Trauma Consults" are in ER's accross the country. I'd never heard of them in medschool, but seem to be bombarded by them now. I think of the speciality of Emergency Medicine is to figure out which patients are "sick" and which aren't. But after seeing so many of these trauma consults, I'm perplexed... Isn't the ER asking a Surgeon to re-evaluate a trauma patient about to go home (presumably to see if they are really sick enough to warrent further work up) sort of like a Surgeon asking a Gastroenterologist if their patient needs an appendectomy? In otherwords, why ask another specialty to do something that is clearly within the scope of your own specialty???

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We are not specialists. Asking a trauma surgery team to evaluate a trauma patient prior to discharge or admission is similar to asking a cardiologist to evaluate a chest pain patient prior to discharge or admission.

EM physicians, at least those that I know, rarely get trauma consults. At my institution, trauma consults are obtained for any admitted patient or any high-risk patient that is being discharged. If we aren't sure what's going on or if there are equivocal findings on imaging, then we obtain a consult.
 
Are you being bombarded by them as a surgery resident? or working in the ED? or listening to the overhead pager?
 
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As an attending at various community hospitals, I can say there's no such thing as a trauma consult. Well, at least not at the hospitals I work. You're exactly right....I evaluate the patient, stabilize any injuries, and disposition from there. Most trauma patients I evaluate get to go home with whatever specialty follow-up they may need. If the patient is in need of operative management, I'll consult the necessary surgeon. That being said, occasionally I will need to transfer a patient to our local trauma center. And no, it's not for a second opinion; it's because they need surgeries, multiple disciplines are involved, and I can't get any one service to admit them. (Yes, sometimes these games are still played in the outside world...not just residency)

Now as a resident, we did have trauma consults sometimes for ER patients. You're exactly right, those were maddening. It was typically for some sort of CYA medicine I think we all hate to practice.

Oh well, play the game and play it well.
 
I see trauma consults for scenarios where there is a trauma (e.g. dude falls off ladder and breaks a vertebrae and a face or finger, etc) but there is no trauma alert called. After the injuries are determined in the ED and the decision is made to admit, there is usually a discussion about where to admit - i.e. neurosurg, ortho, or trauma.
 
I was wondering how prevalent "Trauma Consults" are in ER's accross the country. I'd never heard of them in medschool, but seem to be bombarded by them now. I think of the speciality of Emergency Medicine is to figure out which patients are "sick" and which aren't. But after seeing so many of these trauma consults, I'm perplexed... Isn't the ER asking a Surgeon to re-evaluate a trauma patient about to go home (presumably to see if they are really sick enough to warrent further work up) sort of like a Surgeon asking a Gastroenterologist if their patient needs an appendectomy? In otherwords, why ask another specialty to do something that is clearly within the scope of your own specialty???

Where I trained, if a patient met certain criteria, they were deemed a level "(fill in the blank)" trauma and needed a trauma evaluation. While there was some fudge factor for noninjured patients, if they actually had an injury, trauma surgery needed to be on board.
 
We call a trauma consult when the patient has a traumatic injury that doesn't need a full alert (i.e., bringing down the team for the patient's arrival), but does need to be admitted. Unfortunately, Ortho, Neurosurg, etc do not admit here, so if the patient needs to be admitted, it is the trauma service who gets to babysit the patient for the specialty groups. We see many more traumatic injuries that we discharge without a trauma team eval with specialty follow up. "Truama Consult" really is just a euphamism for - we need the trauma team to admit a patient...
 
Agreed -- at my institution, EMS would call in with whatever they were bringing, and we would either alert the "stabilization team" (made up of ED personnel) or not. If, once we got into the trauma room, the pt did indeed need activation of the trauma surgeons, the pit boss would ask the tech to page them, with whatever urgency code seemed appropriate. Or... not. Often we didn't need to call the surgeons.

However, with a pt who would be getting admitted, it would have to be one surgical unit or another taking care of them. And so we'd call the "trauma team" in the most low-priority way -- just like we'd call any admitting team. For dispos home, we didn't call on other services, unless the pt had a hx with them and we thought the other service would like to know.

So maybe you're hearing a lot of these because your institution's rules demand a consult on every admission OR dispo. In which case, yeah, that sounds annoying.
 
Agreed -- at my institution, EMS would call in with whatever they were bringing, and we would either alert the "stabilization team" (made up of ED personnel) or not. If, once we got into the trauma room, the pt did indeed need activation of the trauma surgeons, the pit boss would ask the tech to page them, with whatever urgency code seemed appropriate. Or... not. Often we didn't need to call the surgeons.

However, with a pt who would be getting admitted, it would have to be one surgical unit or another taking care of them. And so we'd call the "trauma team" in the most low-priority way -- just like we'd call any admitting team. For dispos home, we didn't call on other services, unless the pt had a hx with them and we thought the other service would like to know.

So maybe you're hearing a lot of these because your institution's rules demand a consult on every admission OR dispo. In which case, yeah, that sounds annoying.

Where I trained, we had a list of what constituted a Level I (most serious), Level II, and Level III trauma. If any of the criteria were met, a trauma got "levelled". Depending on the level, some combination of surgeon would come down, sometimes prior to the patient arrival, sometimes after.

Level III: 2nd or 3rd year surgery resident and/or emergency med resident rotating on "trauma" team.

Level II: Upper level surgury resident plus any of the above

Level I: Trauma attending (Surgeon) plus any (usually all) of the above personnel.

As for the actual trauma, assuming everyone was there before the trauma arrived, one resident (and we rotated on a daily basis whether it was the ED resident or the trauma team resident) would "run" the trauma. The other residents would be designated as "procedure" residents and would get to, for example, put in lines or chest tubes.

The airway was *always* the responsibility of the EM resident on service in the department.

The actual ordering of tests -- especially beyond the basic trauma protocol -- was a joint effort between the EM resident and attending and the trauma team, the latter after they staffed it with their attending. Ultimately, the trauma team would determine dispo (discharge, admit, to OR, etc.) with the caveat that if the EM folks thought the patient needed more than the trauma team thought (e.g. the trauma team thought d/c, the EM folks were a little more inclined to admit) then the trauma team would usually trust the judgement of the ER folks and admit for 24 obs or something similar.

So to answer your question -- very frequent "trauma" consults but in a very integrated approach.
 
I think the answer to your question is that admitting patients to the hospital for observation/pain control/organization of care/surgery is not within our scope.

Sounds like this is institution dependent - are you frequently consulted for patients that really end up going home?

We typically consult trauma on patients that need to be admitted, most often those with multiple injuries that will be seen by several services.
 
It's also institution dependent. We used to do a "trauma consult" which meant the Trauma resident would come by and pick up a sticker to add the patient to the list of people to be seen in the trauma follow up clinic.
 
Agreed. The only TRAUMA consult I get is for an admission. We have 4 tiers here which are trauma Red, White, Green, and then regular patients who may or may not have trauma issues.

Greens have only the ED resident/attending see the pt, now there are tons of stories where these greens are sicker than crap and need admission. Then I get a trauma consult.

I dont think I have "consulted" trauma EVER for a patient that went home.
 
Works about the same where I'm at. Trauma is consulted when someone with multiple injuries requiring admission shows up. Regardless as to whether or not they have only ortho issues, etc., if they have multiple traumatic injuries, or have a high energy mechanism, they are usually admitted to trauma until all those injuries are cleared or the patient is discharged. I have yet to see trauma ever called for someone that was going to be discharged home, or for help with a dispo.
 
I fully agree that patients who need to be admitted need to be seen by the trauma team. My question was more regarding the requests from the ED "We have this trauma patient we want to send home, can you come see him as a consult so we can get him out of here?" I just have no idea what my note is going to add--I'm not going to call the (surgical) attending about something like this, so I can't imagine what a junior surgical resident adds to an Emergency Med attending with years of experience. :confused:
I typically get 2-3 trauma consults a night for patients who need "clearance" before than can go home.
 
Do you have an EM residency at your hospital?
 
I fully agree that patients who need to be admitted need to be seen by the trauma team. My question was more regarding the requests from the ED "We have this trauma patient we want to send home, can you come see him as a consult so we can get him out of here?" I just have no idea what my note is going to add--I'm not going to call the (surgical) attending about something like this, so I can't imagine what a junior surgical resident adds to an Emergency Med attending with years of experience. :confused:
I typically get 2-3 trauma consults a night for patients who need "clearance" before than can go home.
This sounds like a practice born of some past incident of a miss by the EP. Some trauma patient went home and had a missed spleen or scaphoid or something. Maybe the EPs decided to start doing it so they wouldn't have to explain to a jury why a trauma center had a patient who wasn't seen by the trauma team. Maybe the surgeons started demanding it so they wouldn't get into a problem with the trauma foundation.

There's also the possibility is just pure CYA. The best indicator of that is if these consults on happen when a particular EP is working.
 
Do you have an EM residency at your hospital?Yes. A fairly good one. Level 1 Trauma Center in a major city. Granted, these trauma consults are very attending dependent.
 
Do you have an EM residency at your hospital?

According to this post he (she) is at GW in Washington DC.

I guess I'm not unhappy, just very VERY surprised. Anyone can PM me if they want details on that... Just don't beleive what PDs tell you during the interview season, or at least take it with a grain of salt.

For what its worth, I think that GW is probably the best training in DC. I don't know much about Howard. WHC is a good community program, but too many rumors about malignancy scared me away. I'm not sure what Georgetown's current situation is with numbers and the merger with WHC, but matching in DC, GW is where I'd want to be. Again, that said, I was just not expecting to be on the east coast. I also couples matched, which can change everything too. Good Luck!

- H
 
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