Transfer from DMD/DDS to MD?

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ULTRON

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Hello,

If the first two years of DDS/DMD and MD are the same, is it possible to transfer from DMD/DDS program to MD program, by the end of the first or second year? Many schools offer both MD and DMD/DDS degrees.

I know this sounds crazy, but is this possible?

ULTRON

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Are there any schools where the first two years are the same for DDS and MD? If that is true I think they are not getting a very good dental education. Are you asking this because you want to transfer to an MD program after getting accepted to a dental school? If so you shouldn't be applying to dental school.
 
in some canadian schools the first two years are combined. i'm going to mcgill and basically i'm studying medicine for the first 18 months. they do not allow transfer, however, from med to dent or dent to med. you have to reapply.

i agree with the above poster that if your heart is not in dent then get the h##l out. there's nothing that pisses me off more than the prospect of working with someone who's not passionate about dentistry.

if you're in canada, you may be interested in this article about MD's.

http://www.caribbeanmedicine.com/article9.htm

just to remind u again...dont go to dentistry unless you love the art and the $$. if u want to go to med school go to med school and stay out of the way of aspiring dentists.

sorry for the vehemence but these kind of people really irk me
 
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Originally posted by dr_benj
Are there any schools where the first two years are the same for DDS and MD? If that is true I think they are not getting a very good dental education.

Why not? There are several schools where the courses are the same, and taken in conjunction with the medical students.

This is how dentistry OUGHT to be. Slowly but surely we are limiting ourselves to becoming tooth technicians. We need to bring medicine back into dentistry and recognize that we are providers of health care, not merely technicians.

Off topic, but there's my rant.
 
Why does a dentist need to study the coagulation cascade or prothrombitic biochemistry?

Knowing about that stuff does not make you a better dentist or serve your patients better, so therefore its superfluous.

Knowing the vasculature of the leg does nothing to help dentists patients either--therefore its superfluous and a waste of time.
 
I agree with you in part, Gavin, but I think you take the medical dentistry philosophy a little too far. I absolutely believe we need to be fully educated, trained, and competent to the absolute fullest extent possible that dentistry and medicine relate to one another--this includes knowing how our procedures affect the rest of the body, and how physicians' treatments and patient systemic disorders will affect the head and neck.

It *doesn't*, however, include the very significant portion of medical science that takes place beyond the scope of our licensing. I fully believe that dentists should be fully equivalent to a physician in our region of specialty; but we simply have no need or use for the areas that don't affect us, and that we don't impact ourselves.

Everyone who thinks that dentists should be permitted to treat systemic conditions beyond the head and neck, consider this; what would you think about a physician attempting a root canal? Restoring a carious lesion? Placing a crown? It's outside their training, and they wouldn't touch any of those because of that; likewise, we have our own areas of training and expertise, and we need to recognize our own abilities and limitations as well.

You can damn me for belittling our profession, but in the end it comes down to a simple difference in the professions; dentists are not physicians, and physicians aren't dentists.

<b>EDIT:</b> And for the record, MacGuyver, dentists perform plenty of procedures involving bleeding; that's one of the many aspects of dentistry we have every obligation to be up to speed in.
 
I can think of one scenario in which you might be able to pull off a D2 to M3 switch. You applied for admission to both dental school and medical school at the same institution. You subsequently were strongly recruited by the dean of that medical school who later expressed profound disappointment when you chose the dental school acceptance over the medical school offer. So my answer to your question would be slim or none.
 
Originally posted by MacGyver
Why does a dentist need to study the coagulation cascade or prothrombitic biochemistry?

Knowing about that stuff does not make you a better dentist or serve your patients better, so therefore its superfluous.

Knowing the vasculature of the leg does nothing to help dentists patients either--therefore its superfluous and a waste of time.

I find what you said quite insulting to the dental profession. Here at Columbia we take all of our basic sciences w/ the med student. When we see patients we will also encounter patients that will have coagulatoin problems (along w/ almost every other type of medical problem)... you'll realize some of your patients won't heal well...what happens if you nick them w/ your drill? what happens if you extract one of their tooth and they have sever bleeding? Sometimes patients doesn't even know they have problems...(examples are those that bruise easily and have some coagulation factor problem) Most of what you're learning or will learn is relevant in one way or another...
 
I know it has been done at least once here at columbia where a D3 transfered to M2... it's rare and probably happens in very unusual circumstances.
 
Originally posted by MacGyver
Why does a dentist need to study the coagulation cascade or prothrombitic biochemistry?

Knowing about that stuff does not make you a better dentist or serve your patients better, so therefore its superfluous.

Knowing the vasculature of the leg does nothing to help dentists patients either--therefore its superfluous and a waste of time.

Great, another stupid troll.

Listen, even you should know that anesthethia affects every system of the body.

Why shouldn't I learn about the entire body? I'm going to administer drugs, perhaps that is important. I'm sure that one day you'll have a full understanding of systemic drug complications.

Hepatic and renal dysfunction impair the body's ability to break down and excrete local anesthetic, leading to an increased anesthetic level in the blood (better learn about kidneys and excretion).

Congestive heart failure decreases liver perfusion and thereby increases the half-lives of amide local anesthetics which increases the risk of overdose (better learn about the cardio system).

Anesthetics we use cross the blood-brain barrier and produce CNS depression (better learn neuroanatomy).

You'd better hope that your dentist understands the body in full and the effects that the drugs he administers or scripts have on your body. You'd better hope your dentist is comfortable performing cricothyrotomy.

Many situations arise in the dental office, the least of which are patient unconsciousness, respiratory distress, altered consciousness, seizures, chest pain and cardiac arrest.

You're right, we should only study the head and care less about what happens to the body after the drug is administered.
 
Originally posted by aphistis
I agree with you in part, Gavin, but I think you take the medical dentistry philosophy a little too far. I absolutely believe we need to be fully educated, trained, and competent to the absolute fullest extent possible that dentistry and medicine relate to one another--

Where did I take it too far? Many aspects of medicine are being overtaken by nurses and technicians. What sets dentistry apart from this tidal wave? If all we do is fill holes, then assistants will soon be taking our place.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how dentistry and medicine don't relate. There is NO difference in how dentistry relates to medicine than in how ophthomology relates to medicine, or ENT relates to medicine. How does psychiatry relate to medicine more than dentistry?

What are the differences? Specifically, why does an opthomologist need to know the vasculature of the leg?

My post has NOTHING to do with prescription rights, or treating OB/GYN, or anything like that. My point is that if we don't get our butts in gear, our profession will be overtaken by those with lesser knowledge.
 
Originally posted by ItsGavinC
I'm sorry, but I don't see how dentistry and medicine don't relate. There is NO difference in how dentistry relates to medicine than in how ophthomology relates to medicine, or ENT relates to medicine. How does psychiatry relate to medicine more than dentistry?

{omitted}

My post has NOTHING to do with prescription rights, or treating OB/GYN, or anything like that. My point is that if we don't get our butts in gear, our profession will be overtaken by those with lesser knowledge.

I agree with the first section; except that medical school is geared to prepare a student to enter *any* medical specialty, be it optho, psych, ortho, cardio, and on and on. In order to accomplish that, students going on to any given specialty inevitably receive a lot of instruction that doesn't apply to them, because they're in class with 75 other to whom it might. That's one of the reasons I enjoy dentistry--the curriculum is more tightly focused on what we'll actually be doing, so any given material is much more likely to bear direct relevance to our experience as clinicians.

The only way I can think of to accomplish the full extent of what you seem to be suggesting is to turn dentistry into another MD specialty; I doubt that's what you're after, but I don't like that idea at all. I love the autonomy dentistry enjoys as a profession--I'll have no trouble thinking of myself as standing equally with physicians, but I will also be aware that we're not interchangeable. I'll need to refer systemic conditions to them, and they'll need to refer oral conditions to me, as is the case within any two specialties.

As for the second, I think I addressed that adequately in my previous post, where I mentioned that I definitely support a fully integrated medical/dental curriculum in all areas relevant to the practice of dentistry.
 
to Ultron:

Just finish dental school first, get your DDS/DMD, then go into a 6-year Oral Surgery program and get your MD. You will have both and be done with it! :D
 
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Originally posted by ItsGavinC

Listen, even you should know that anesthethia affects every system of the body.

So what? Dentists may ask if their patient has any sensitivities to particular anesthetics and switch if necessary.

Does that require knowing IN DETAIL how anesthesia affects every system in the body? I think not. You need to know major classes, mechanisms, and dosages. Thats it.

Please explain to me how a dentist would apply that knowledge to a dental patient.

Why shouldn't I learn about the entire body? I'm going to administer drugs, perhaps that is important. I'm sure that one day you'll have a full understanding of systemic drug complications.

You will NOT be administering across the board drugs of all types and classes. Your scripts will be limited to a handful of items, not the whole pharmacopeia of medicine.

Again, please explain to me why a dentist would need to know how colchicine works and how they would apply that knowledge to a patient?

Neither psychiatrists NOR dentists need that info.

Hepatic and renal dysfunction impair the body's ability to break down and excrete local anesthetic, leading to an increased anesthetic level in the blood (better learn about kidneys and excretion).

So do dentists perform liver function tests? NO. Do they perform ELISA assays to look for autoimmune complications before proceeding? NO. Do they get creatinine clearance levels before administering local anesthetic? NO.

Only OMS people actually apply that knowledge to patients.

Dentists use local anesthetic for 99% of their activities--that hardly warrants studying the effects of drugs on all organs. Sure its nice to know, but it doesnt actually CHANGE anything you do with the patient other than choosing between anesthetics perhaps.

Congestive heart failure decreases liver perfusion and thereby increases the half-lives of amide local anesthetics which increases the risk of overdose (better learn about the cardio system).

So dentists routinely screen for CHF in high risk patients before proceeding? You and I both know they dont.

Anesthetics we use cross the blood-brain barrier and produce CNS depression (better learn neuroanatomy).

Again, the necessary info you need to know is basic mechanism, dosage, and contraindications. You certainly dont need to understand how axonal transport works.

You'd better hope that your dentist understands the body in full and the effects that the drugs he administers or scripts have on your body. You'd better hope your dentist is comfortable performing cricothyrotomy.

How many times (other than OMS settings) has a dentist done a crico? Its a 1 in a million occurrence.

Many situations arise in the dental office, the least of which are patient unconsciousness, respiratory distress, altered consciousness, seizures, chest pain and cardiac arrest.

In an OMS setting, sure. In your typical dentists office? Extremely rare event. Even on the chance that something like that does occur, do they treat the patient in the dentists office? Hell no, they rush them to the ER.

Dentists (other than OMS) dont TREAT those conditions--they refer out to physicians.

You have an inflated view of dentists as if they routinely perform thoracotomies if a patient goes into cardiac arrest. Sorry but thats just not the case.

Non-OMS dentists treat teeth and gums and thats about it. They dont integrate knowledge about the whole health of the patient--they dont ask about psych history or do an H&P workup on dyspnea. They dont order blood work or chem panels. They dont image lungs or heart or brain.

Med students have the POTENTIAL to apply everything thats exposed to them in med school. The same cant be said for dentists. There is no way a dentist will need to know the differential diagnosis for multiple myeloma, or the workup for chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

Even if dentists are forced to learn the nuances of multiple sclerosis, I challenge you to find ONE dentist thats actually applied that knowledge in treating patients.

How efficient can it be to study things that you are NEVER going to use?
 
Hello everyone,

Don't misunderstand me - I'm not even in medical/dental school yet. I'm a laid off engineer, simply asking questions like Socrates.

Importantly, I plan to attend dental school starting in 2004. And yes, I believe that dentists should know about every part of the body. For example, in electrical engineering, you have to take chemistry courses - why? I believe education only makes you smarter, expands your thinking and thought process.

See? A simple question has sparked off an intense debate. Keep going folks ! I love reading your posts.

ULTRON
 
Bill,

I'm not suggesting turning dentistry into a medical specialty. You know me much better than that.

What I am suggesting is that there is NOTHING wrong with learning about the body systems, even in great detail.
 
Mac Guyver,

I appreciate your last post. I notice that in response to my points, a good number of your responses suggested: OMS do many of those things, but dentists don't.

You do realize that OMS is a dental specialty, don't you? Being the case, why shouldn't we study the systems while in dental school?
 
Now there's a comment I can stand behind 100%. Just as I said med school has to prepare students for any medical specialty, there follows dental school for any dental specialty. Additionally, MacGuyver, some of the stuff you said isn't very substantive. How many FP's utilize half the material you learn in med school? It's all about learning *everything* that's related to your field, which I adore.
 
Just to clarify for everybody: the 2nd post on this forum stated that if DDS students are getting the same education as MD students (for the first two years) then the DDS students aren't getting a good education.

I disagreed. Further, all those schools have dental classes in conjunction with their combined classes.

I never said schools should combine classes, but I see nothing wrong with doing so. That doesn't mean dentsists are physicians. Let's not blow this out of proportion (more than we already have).

I just happen to think it is cool AND useful to learn all I can about the body.

Remember, I'm not just focusing on teeth, I'm learning about cranial nerves, lymph nodes, the trachea, sinuses, facial muscles, palsies, and everything else related to the head/neck.
 
Yeah but med school first 2 years is also overkill for OMS people too.

OMS people dont need to know the finer nuances of anemia. OMS people dont treat anemia.

OMS people dont need to know about the lower limbs. None of their procedures involve anything on the legs.

OMS people dont need to be able to distinguish between the MOPP chemotherapy regimen, they dont need to know the toxicities of the taxane class drugs.

Very few dentists go into OMS at any rate. Even if you assume that all dentists go into OMS, they will use relatively little of what is presented to them from the MD curriculum.

Contrast that to med students, which have the potential to use ALL of it.

OMS people dont need to understand how to do a throrough pulmonary physical exam. They dont need to understand all the blood clotting tests. They will NEVER use that in their practice.
 
Dude, I saw the title of this thread and thought, "Awesome, another chance to come pick on the little dentist/md-wannabes."

(I don't know why I'm such a jerk sometimes)

But instead I get sidetracked by this *****, MacGuyver. Dude, last time I checked the mouth was a part of the body. The things dentists do affect the whole body; what's going on in the rest of the body affects dentistry. If you can't understand this, you're not fit to be a phsyician. Damn, what an idiot.

P.S. All you dental peeps, this still does not mean I think you are real doctors. So don't be getting any ideas, O.K?
 
Quote
"Just as I said med school has to prepare students for any medical specialty, there follows dental school for any dental specialty."


What if I decided to be an orthodontist from day 1 of dental school.
I am sure there are many students on this forum, who decided what they want to be before entering dental school.
If you are not aiming to do everything (general dentistry), it is painful to study each and every minute detail.
 
Originally posted by MacGyver
Yeah but med school first 2 years is also overkill for OMS people too.

OMS people dont need to know the finer nuances of anemia. OMS people dont treat anemia.

OMS people dont need to know about the lower limbs. None of their procedures involve anything on the legs.

OMS people dont need to be able to distinguish between the MOPP chemotherapy regimen, they dont need to know the toxicities of the taxane class drugs.

Very few dentists go into OMS at any rate. Even if you assume that all dentists go into OMS, they will use relatively little of what is presented to them from the MD curriculum.

Contrast that to med students, which have the potential to use ALL of it.

OMS people dont need to understand how to do a throrough pulmonary physical exam. They dont need to understand all the blood clotting tests. They will NEVER use that in their practice.

Umm...

I just finished an OMS externship this past summer at a major urban medical center.

I can say firsthand those oral surgeons I met and worked with DO need to know all those things.

They DO need to know the finer nuances of anemia. These guys are very often doing very invasive things to medically complex patients. How about a city jail inmate who presents to the hospital with a broken jaw from a fight, who has a history of pernicious anemia due to his bad social habits such as alcoholism (poor nutrition leading to B12 deficiency)? I saw one of the oral surgeons operate on one of these guys while the jailer shepherding the inmate stood outside the OR with a shotgun.

They DO need to know things about the lower limbs. The last two years of these guys' training is in General Surgery. And where do you suppose they harvest bone from to graft into the jaw? (hint: how about the fibula?)

They DO need to know what a cancer patient is receiving in the form of chemotherapy. I've seen them evaluate cancer patients who might need OMFS procedures in the hospital setting.

They DO need to know about blood-clotting tests. Sheeoot, as a regular DDS you will too-- Just wait until you get assigned a patient in dental school who is on heparin or coumadin. Be prepared to be grilled by one of your ODS instructors on the subject.

They DO need to know how to do pulmonary physical exams. If you don't do one before you administer N2O or Halothanes, what might just happen? All together now class, "wrongful death lawsuit!" (heh heh)

Need I go on?

FYI, Lots of oral surgeons hold both DDS AND MD degrees. These guys are both dentists AND physicians. It would be contradictory of you to say they don't need most of what is presented to med students in the MD curriculum because that's exactly what they had been! :D

Yeah, I agree with Gavin and Bill if that's not apparent enough... ;)

HTH!
 
Originally posted by Mr. Pretentious
Dude, I saw the title of this thread and thought, "Awesome, another chance to come pick on the little dentist/md-wannabes."

(I don't know why I'm such a jerk sometimes)

But instead I get sidetracked by this *****, MacGuyver. Dude, last time I checked the mouth was a part of the body. The things dentists do affect the whole body; what's going on in the rest of the body affects dentistry. If you can't understand this, you're not fit to be a phsyician. Damn, what an idiot.

P.S. All you dental peeps, this still does not mean I think you are real doctors. So don't be getting any ideas, O.K?

Thanks for helping bring MacGuyver to task.

P.S. All you pretentious MD elitists, this still does not mean we're interested in your uninformed opinion of our profession. So don't be getting any ideas, O.K.?
 
Originally posted by Mr. Pretentious

P.S. All you dental peeps, this still does not mean I think you are real doctors. So don't be getting any ideas, O.K?

Fabulous. I don't think you're a real doctor either, so the feeling is mutual.

Besides, all doctors want to be surgeons. Good thing dentists are surgeons. :D
 
Originally posted by masterblaster
Quote
"Just as I said med school has to prepare students for any medical specialty, there follows dental school for any dental specialty."


What if I decided to be an orthodontist from day 1 of dental school.
I am sure there are many students on this forum, who decided what they want to be before entering dental school.
If you are not aiming to do everything (general dentistry), it is painful to study each and every minute detail.

If you decide you want to be an orthodontist from DS1, day 1, that's great...except it leaves two major flanks exposed. First, you have no guarantees that you'll still be hell-bent on orthodontics once you've actually had some exposure to the profession. Similarly, even if you do decide that you want an orthodontics residency, there's no guarantee that any orthodontics residencies will want you.

When either of those happens to a student, s/he has no choice but to change their pursuit to either a different specialty, or to general dentistry. If you've been ignoring most of your dental school curriculum, you'll be left out in the cold if you're turned away from ortho; and as a practical matter, since ortho is one of the most competitive specialties, you'll have a *damned* hard time landing a spot if you can't focus on your pre-doc classes.
 
Bill,
I am not saying one can ignore other subjects, if he wants to specialize in orthodontics.
and I agree that one must be exceptionally good at everything* to be an orthodontist.
If you decide to be an orthodontist early on, and focus on that particular specialty, it is possible you lose interest in other areas, (e.g. amalgam filling, which is important, and can not be ignored).
It is necessary one must be a very good dentist to become an orthodontist.
but my question is, "How many orthodontists apply all that knowledge ?"
It seems that, one has to aim for good grades to get into ortho. so it is painful to know that there is PROBABILITY, I may not apply all that knowledge.
 
Originally posted by Mr. Pretentious
Dude, I saw the title of this thread and thought, "Awesome, another chance to come pick on the little dentist/md-wannabes."

(I don't know why I'm such a jerk sometimes)

But instead I get sidetracked by this *****, MacGuyver. Dude, last time I checked the mouth was a part of the body. The things dentists do affect the whole body; what's going on in the rest of the body affects dentistry. If you can't understand this, you're not fit to be a phsyician. Damn, what an idiot.

P.S. All you dental peeps, this still does not mean I think you are real doctors. So don't be getting any ideas, O.K?

The mouth is a part of the body? Damn I learn something new here everyday.

Perhaps you should elevate your logic to a higher plane than the 3rd grade rhyme of the "leg bone is connected to the knee bone" and then get back to me.
 
Why do I always have to straighten you guys out around here? :laugh:

Originally posted by UBTom
Sheeoot, as a regular DDS you will too-- Just wait until you get assigned a patient in dental school who is on heparin or coumadin. Be prepared to be grilled by one of your ODS instructors on the subject.


thats just BS, and besides the point at any rate. Who gives a damn what the teachers say, they have to have some excuse to put dental students in with MD students to try and prove how smart they are.

Hypothetical scenario: 2 patients come in for the same treatment (root canal, wisdom extraction, regular cleaning, whatever). One is on coumadin and the other is not. How does the dentist change his treatment plan for the coumadin patient?

Answer: he doesnt. He acknowledges that coumadin is a blood thinner and proceeds as normal. He doesnt administer medication, he doesnt do any serum clotting tests, he doesnt use a different procedure than he would otherwise.

Now you tell me why the dentist needs to know the intricate pharmacology of coumadin considering that his treatment plan WILL NOT CHANGE!

BTW, if DDS students take the exact same courses as MD students the first 2 years, then why do OMS residency programs require the DDS guys to "retake" the 2nd year med school material?

Something is amiss here.

FYI, Lots of oral surgeons hold both DDS AND MD degrees. These guys are both dentists AND physicians.

So what? OMS makes up a tiny fraction of all dentists. A dentist is not a physician.

The truth is that 99% of dentists do routine maintenance of teeth/gums and thats it. Isnt that why you went into dentistry? Whats so shameful about that? Why do you guys get so bent out of shape over that simple, fundamental truth?

There is an incessant push here to somehow create the illusion that dentists can do anything a physician can do. Thats just not the case, OMS docs notwithstanding.
 
you know what...i actually agree with you. the bottom line for me is $$...i could care less about the nobility of being a physician or saving lives.

from your 'i am god' quote at the end of every post, one can pretty much guess what size of an ego you have. go ahead, put down other health professionals if you want....but if you think that MD= instant respect, awe and admiration, you're damn wrong. i can just see that many of my MD classmates are dissapointed because they're no better at making friends or getting girls just because they're in med school.

i'll just scale and occasionally pull a few teeth, and make good $$ doing it. That's fine by me. I could give a rat's a$$ how many more procedures you can do. Bottom line is I'll be able to afford my Lexus and spend quality with my future family...the rest of the holy medicine [email protected] can keep it.

now go back to your little ivory tower and leave us good-for-nothing dentists alone :)
 
Originally posted by ItsGavinC
Fabulous. I don't think you're a real doctor either, so the feeling is mutual.


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
Originally posted by MacGyver


BTW, if DDS students take the exact same courses as MD students the first 2 years, then why do OMS residency programs require the DDS guys to "retake" the 2nd year med school material?

There is an incessant push here to somehow create the illusion that dentists can do anything a physician can do. Thats just not the case, OMS docs notwithstanding.

First, you had better do *some* research before posting.

OMS is a DENTAL specialty, NOT a medical specialty. OMS dentists do NOT have to do ANY part of medical school. Some programs are in existance that grant an MD degree if the dentist does the latter two years of medical school, but those programs are NOT standard. 90% of your OMS you meet are simply dentists and have done NO medical school.

Secondly, NOBODY posted that dentists can do anything physicans do except for YOU! You started that argument, ironically, with yourself! Good luck, I think you've almost won.

Third, you (mistakenly) have a complex where you assume that MDs are the "gods" of healthcare. You must have forgotten that MDs specialize and will soon forget or lay to rest the "useless" (your words) information they learned in medical school and throughout residencies.
 
Originally posted by MacGyver

Hypothetical scenario: 2 patients come in for the same treatment (root canal, wisdom extraction, regular cleaning, whatever). One is on coumadin and the other is not. How does the dentist change his treatment plan for the coumadin patient?

Answer: he doesnt.

This proves that you are completely ignorant to anything dentists do. ESPECIALLY because you choose a root canal procedure to use in your example. Coumadin is especially important in such a patient!

Root canal therapy has a higher risk than other procedures of developing bacterial endocarditis. Patients takinng daily anticoagulant meds like Coumadin will need a reduction in the dose or a suspension of the drug before the periodontal portion of the exam prior to receiving the RC therapy.

Futher, in many instances the root canal should be postponed if the patient is A) recuping from an MI or B) taking anticoagulant meds. In fact, in the case that you presented is is recommended (HIGHLY!) that the dentist consult with the patient's physician so the meds (Coumadin in this case) can be titrated or temporarily terminated.

There is a reason that root canal therapy is called a "microsurgery"! The dentist changes treatment GREATLY if one patient is on Coumadin and the other isn't.
 
Originally posted by MacGyver
The truth is that 99% of dentists do routine maintenance of teeth/gums and thats it. Isnt that why you went into dentistry? Whats so shameful about that?

Nothing shameful about that at all. It's also true that 99% of physicians only do routinue maintenance of whatever systems fall under their specialty.

Actually, now is a good time to note that dentistry provides PREVENTION while medicine is still playing catch-up and insists on treating people only after they become ill. Don't worry, you guys will catch up in a decade or so.

Jeez, I hope my father, an MD, isn't reading this. Oh wait, he'd agree with me.
 
I think instead of concentrating on medicine we should go back to the basics. We need to focus on hair. Why did we drift away from that? Hair is important.

Seriously, the medical aspect of dentistry is VERY important. To answer the posters question, the idea of switching after two years is not realistic. While some of the courses we take are the same, the majority are very different. At Michigan less than half our credits reflect what the meds are doing. The other half are almost completely dental related. Biochemistry is only important as is reflects to teeth and the oral cavity. Microbiology is only important as it relates to the mouth and diseases that effect the mouth. Knowing about the rest of the body is essential to being a good dentist, but I would be disappointed in my institution if they decided that it was now necessary to learn the procedure of removing a wart on the hand. To focus more on the other aspects of medicine makes about as much sense as being a dentist/barber.
 
Originally posted by ItsGavinC
Actually, now is a good time to note that dentistry provides PREVENTION while medicine is still playing catch-up and insists on treating people only after they become ill. Don't worry, you guys will catch up in a decade or so.

Prevention in dentistry = brush your teeth/gums and floss. Those 2 things correct 99.5% of all dentistry problems.

You dont need to spend 4 years in school for that.

For medicine, even if you eat vegan and exercise 1 hour a day, you dont eliminate your risk of heart disease.

Furthermore, you make it sound as if MDs PURPOSEFULLY IGNORE prevention in order to just treat the illness afterwards. Thats absolute crap.

There are many things that have preventative maintenance involved and many that do not.

Just because doctors havent found a way to prevent EVERY illness doenst mean they're not working on it.

For you to insinuate that MDs purposefully ignore it is just stupid.
 
Just to clarify for everybody: the 2nd post on this forum stated that if DDS students are getting the same education as MD students (for the first two years) then the DDS students aren't getting a good education.

I want to retract my origianl statement. I was only suggesting that if dental students are learning everything med students are then maybe they are not getting as in-depth of an education as dental students who only take dental classes. It seems to me like med/dental combined curriculum fails to focus on our specialty. Just my opinion and it is subject to change once I start dental school.
 
MacGyver,

Thanks for the healthy discussion. In reality nobody really needs to spend 4 years in school to learn their trait. The schooling provides extra years of experience, which translate to a higher level of expertise.

It may be true that eating well and exercising doesn't eliminate your risk of heart disease, but it DOES signifigantly REDUCE it.

For the record, brushing teeth and flossing doesn't eliminate your risk of oral problems either, but it DOES significantly REDUCE it.

My intention was never to make it sound as if MDs ignore prevention. Truth is that our medical system as it is organized focuses on reacting to illness and infection rather than preventing it. That is slowly and surely changing, however.

And, no comments on the patients with Coumadin? Good, I didn't think so.

My ultimate point: Dentists do not perform 95% of the procedures that physicians do. We should, however, be very aware of all the procedures that physicians perform. The script pad looks exactly the same, and our patients are the same. We owe it to each other to know as much as possible about both professions. Above all, we owe it to the patients whom we serve.
 
Originally posted by MacGyver
Why do I always have to straighten you guys out around here? :laugh:

thats just BS, and besides the point at any rate. Who gives a damn what the teachers say, they have to have some excuse to put dental students in with MD students to try and prove how smart they are.

Hypothetical scenario: 2 patients come in for the same treatment (root canal, wisdom extraction, regular cleaning, whatever). One is on coumadin and the other is not. How does the dentist change his treatment plan for the coumadin patient?

Answer: he doesnt. He acknowledges that coumadin is a blood thinner and proceeds as normal. He doesnt administer medication, he doesnt do any serum clotting tests, he doesnt use a different procedure than he would otherwise.

BZZT!!! WRONG!

You don't know "straight" if it bit you in the ass.

Go ask ANY regular dentist why your answer is DEAD wrong.



BTW, if DDS students take the exact same courses as MD students the first 2 years, then why do OMS residency programs require the DDS guys to "retake" the 2nd year med school material?

Something is amiss here.

Something IS amiss-- you seem to be missing some common sense. How about review? If you look at the courses given during PGY-2 of an OMFS residency, you will see most of the courses are a review for what OMFS residents already took in dental school 2nd year to prepare them for the USMLE Step-I. I'd like to see you pass the USMLE Step-I cold turkey without any review at all after you have been away from the material for 3 years.

The truth is that 99% of dentists do routine maintenance of teeth/gums and thats it.

WRONG AGAIN. Specialists make up MUCH MORE than just 1% of all dental practitioners, who by definition DO NOT "do routine maintenance of teeth/gums and that's it."

Try ONE-THIRD. More than 30% of all dentists are specialists.

Looks like you don't know "truth" either if it bit you in the ass.



So what? OMS makes up a tiny fraction of all dentists.

Might I remind you that you are the one who demonstrated his ignorance of OMFS with this interesting little quote: "Even if you assume that all dentists go into OMS, they will use relatively little of what is presented to them from the MD curriculum. Contrast that to med students, which have the potential to use ALL of it."

Well, you are wrong. Lots of OMS residents ARE med students, and lots of oral surgeons ARE MDs. And they DO use a lot of what they learn.

Now you are resenting having to eat your own words.

It's okay if you know as much about OMS or dentistry as an average idiot. Just don't open your mouth and remove all doubt.

But I guess it's too late for that, isn't it? :laugh:
 
I think he may be full.

Mac Guyver, it is nice to have you around to "stimulate" healthy discussion. You're like perastalsis, although according to you, none of us in this forum should know what that is.

I have no qualms with any health professionals. I'm just glad to be part of a team that is dedicated to assisting those in need, whatever specialty that falls under.
 
Originally posted by UBTom


They DO need to know things about the lower limbs. The last two years of these guys' training is in General Surgery. And where do you suppose they harvest bone from to graft into the jaw? (hint: how about the fibia?)


Where exactly is the fibia? :)
Maybe it is a bone I didn't need to learn in dental school.:D
(hint: maybe you should review those lower limbs a little bit so you know where to harvest those grafts)
 
Fine. A spelling mistake. F-i-b-u-l-a.

Happy now?

Fault me for one little spelling mistake while someone else denigrates a whole profession when he doesn't even know anything about it. GROW UP.
 
Sorry for interrupting you intellectual disputations doctors, but I've gotten DDS/DMDs against MDs and vice versa :oops:

I mean, I GET IT - its not easily possible to transfer from DDS/DMD to MD - now, will you quit all the name calling?

You guys are cracking me up :laugh:

ULTRON
 
A recent ADEA article strongly recommends that dental schools be very assertive in fostering positve interactions between dental schools and medical schools as one of several tools that will be needed to help bring about adequate oral health care to underserved populations in the USA.
 
Originally posted by UBTom

I'd like to see you pass the USMLE Step-I cold turkey without any review at all after you have been away from the material for 3 years.

A dental student lecturing me on the USMLE? :rolleyes:


Well, you are wrong. Lots of OMS residents ARE med students, and lots of oral surgeons ARE MDs.

You really are clueless arent you? OMS residents KNOW they are going into oral/max surgery--their specialty choice has already been made. The same cant be said for med students.
 
A dentist and a physician are on a hike and happen to come upon a group of folks possessing litttle medical knowledge who were nailed by a rockslide. The dentist says "we are both medically trained can we help you?" If MacGyver were the physician what would he do? Attempt to start a debate with the dentist about who was most qualified to aid the victims?
 
Originally posted by MacGyver
You really are clueless arent you?

Nope, that would still be you.

What, STILL no response about your brilliant scenario with the Coumadin patient?

Didn't think so (again). Stop ignoring the blatant error you made and start addressing it.

YOU are inept if you believe that what dentists do doesn't affect YOUR patients. Of course, the same thing is coming back at us also. It's a cycle and we are all part of it!
 
UBTom,

I was just joking, notice the smiley faces next to my responses. I am sorry if I offended you, it was not meant that way. Have a good one
 
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