Too old to become a military doc?

[A7x1]

Hello everyone,

I have been doing internet marketing, web design, and other gigs for the past ten years. However, I am very tired of working behind a PC all day. That is why I decided to go the PA or NP route. Over the past year of my clinical experience, I have come to love the health field so much more than tech. I have two more classes until I finish PA/NP program pre req's. I have a 3.9 overall undergraduate GPA, and a 3.8 GPA for my science courses.

I recently discovered the HPSP. I have always wanted to join the military but was not able to do so in my younger days. One thing in particular that interests me about the HPSP is that it will allow me to go to med school. I never considered med school an option since it is not practical for me to do so at my age (I am 36). The monthly stipend would allow me to focus on my studies at med school, should I choose to apply.

I have been doing some research on military med, but I have a few questions that I cannot really get answered since recruiters will not talk with until I have an acceptance letter from a PA or nursing school.

Here are some of my questions:

1. At my age, would it be a "bad" decision for me to go to med school rather than PA or nursing school?

This question is not really a military med question, but considering tuition and other financial incentives, I am assuming that the HPSP scholarship would be one factor to consider regarding the answer to this question.

I would not be eligible to apply to med school until late next year so I would be close to turning 38 years old by the time I started med school. The timeline would not be much different for PA or nursing programs since I am not eligible to apply to most of those programs until next year anyway.

MD earning potential is not my only motivation for considering med school, but it is one of them. I realize that I will not be able to earn any real money in the civilian sector for at least 10+ years if I go the HPSP route (considering med school, residency, ADSO etc). However, I belive that I would most likely make more money in the long term as an MD rather than if I was a PA/NP.

I will most likely just end up practicing in my brother's clinic, but I can't help but to think that I will have much more opportunities open up to me if I were to be an MD. This is another motivator for me to apply to MD/DO programs in addition to PA/NP.

2. Will I still be able meet the age requirement of any U.S. military branch if I start med school at around 37.5 years old?

I do not really want to waste my time, by completing another year of science classes (not that science classes are a waste of time for me, I just have bills to pay), if I will be too old to join any military branch. I have talked to various military personnel about this question, but I get conflicting answers. I talked to someone at a recuiting office who told me that I must be just under 42 years old by the time I complete the med program.

Another person told me that the maximum age elibility would be 58 years old as long as I am finishing an MD program. The BUMED site lists 42 as max age for the time of entry into active duty while the US Navy recruitment site defines the age requirement for MDs as between 21 and 64 (I am assuming this particular age requirement applies to people who are not taking a scholarship). I would prefer to join the Army, but I would be willing to join the Navy or USAF since the age requirements seem to be easier to meet.

Thanks for reading.

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[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

It’s late and I’m about to go to bed, but I will just say that there are a few people in my cohort who will graduate med school over 40. I believe for the Navy at least, you just need to be able to do 20 by age 62. Not sure about the Army.

As far as just being too old, you’ll still get like 15-20 years of practice. That’s plenty of time. If medicine is what you want, you will regret trying to take the back door into it just to save a few years.

 

[A7x1]

It’s late and I’m about to go to bed, but I will just say that there are a few people in my cohort who will graduate med school over 40. I believe for the Navy at least, you just need to be able to do 20 by age 62. Not sure about the Army.

As far as just being too old, you’ll still get like 15-20 years of practice. That’s plenty of time. If medicine is what you want, you will regret trying to take the back door into it just to save a few years.

Hi Matthew,

Thanks for your advice and encouraging words.

 

[Cooperd0g]

I was 39 when I graduated med school. You aren’t far off from that.

 

[DeadCactus]

Every class seems to have some people graduating in the mid to high thirties. Every few years there is a person pushing late 40's or early 50's at graduation. You just have to make sure you want it enough to justify the sacrifices to yourself and any family you may have and realize that certain specialities will carry more challenges than others. The lifestyle of a students, residents, and new attendings in certain fields is hard enough one those who are relatively unencumbered by a family. Those later in life frequently have their own families to care for and aging parents with health problems. Many people succeed, just make sure it's an endeavour worth succeeding in for you. Many people feel obligated to become a physician not because there is anything unique to the role that fulfills one of their life's desires but because it's the top spot on the totem pole when they may have actually been happier with the shorter and less stressful route of a mid-level career.

 

[JustPlainBill]

I was 42 when I went into medical school and graduated an FM residency 50 with a wife, 2 elementary aged children, a house and a neurotic Jack Russel/Rat Terrier mix -- moved away from the family for medical school -- now I'm out with 2 children in college at the same time, $200k worth of student loans to pay off and college tuition for both plus saving for retirement -- you sure you want to do this? --- Going military has it's benefits -- student loan debt goes away -- having never done it, I can't speak to actually practicing as a military physician. Worked with a Navy doc who had brass balls when it came to things he would do as an FP but as he put it -- When you're out on a carrier treating a crewmember and if you decide to call it -- now you've got to set up evac, etc so in order to not impact mission requirements, he would do some things/take some chances that I wouldn't have. He also was on the ground in Afghanistan going out to FOBs checking on his Marines, etc and the convoy got hit.

As a former USAF brat, the life of a dependent isn't too bad but it's what you make of it and your spouse will play a big role in keeping the kids settled.

But -- there's a few things that you need to be clear about ---

1) If you're not ready to come out zipped up in a bag, missing something or the way you went in, don't go because you'll likely get good people killed.
2) Your family needs to be ok with the potential for getting a visit from the commander and the chaplain. It can happen.
3) Your family needs to be ok with the idea of having to board an aircraft and leave everything and everyone behind at a moment's notice if you have to evac. Your children need to be ok with continuing on their own if they get separated from mommy or daddy and know the rally points i.e. if something happens, wait for the deuce and half with the important papers bag if you're at home, if you're not at home, get to the base, preferably the flight line; once you're at the flightline, wait at the designated area unless you're told to board an aircraft by competent authority whether or not your family is with you. When you get back to CONUS, check in with a designated relative, etc. type of deal. Not such a big deal if you're stateside, but if you're overseas, it's just a fact of life....This is not hyperbole -- we had 175,000 gallons of JP4 blow one morning at Clark AFB, Philippines -- from the 15 foot wall of flames through the dependent housing area, we thought we were cut off from the flight line and the base was under attack. We made it to the parade ground near 13th AF, us dependents got in the middle with sponsors on the outside of the loose perimeter and waited for the choppers from Subic while keeping a sharp eye out for movement -- I was 9.

 

[HighPriest]

All very accurate. Here's a chiropractor I knew from the Army. You can see him here "in the $#!T," still doing his job.

 

[244913]

I was 42 when I went into medical school and graduated an FM residency 50 with a wife, 2 elementary aged children, a house and a neurotic Jack Russel/Rat Terrier mix -- moved away from the family for medical school -- now I'm out with 2 children in college at the same time, $200k worth of student loans to pay off and college tuition for both plus saving for retirement -- you sure you want to do this? --- Going military has it's benefits -- student loan debt goes away -- having never done it, I can't speak to actually practicing as a military physician. Worked with a Navy doc who had brass balls when it came to things he would do as an FP but as he put it -- When you're out on a carrier treating a crewmember and if you decide to call it -- now you've got to set up evac, etc so in order to not impact mission requirements, he would do some things/take some chances that I wouldn't have. He also was on the ground in Afghanistan going out to FOBs checking on his Marines, etc and the convoy got hit.

As a former USAF brat, the life of a dependent isn't too bad but it's what you make of it and your spouse will play a big role in keeping the kids settled.

But -- there's a few things that you need to be clear about ---

1) If you're not ready to come out zipped up in a bag, missing something or the way you went in, don't go because you'll likely get good people killed.
2) Your family needs to be ok with the potential for getting a visit from the commander and the chaplain. It can happen.
3) Your family needs to be ok with the idea of having to board an aircraft and leave everything and everyone behind at a moment's notice if you have to evac. Your children need to be ok with continuing on their own if they get separated from mommy or daddy and know the rally points i.e. if something happens, wait for the deuce and half with the important papers bag if you're at home, if you're not at home, get to the base, preferably the flight line; once you're at the flightline, wait at the designated area unless you're told to board an aircraft by competent authority whether or not your family is with you. When you get back to CONUS, check in with a designated relative, etc. type of deal. Not such a big deal if you're stateside, but if you're overseas, it's just a fact of life....This is not hyperbole -- we had 175,000 gallons of JP4 blow one morning at Clark AFB, Philippines -- from the 15 foot wall of flames through the dependent housing area, we thought we were cut off from the flight line and the base was under attack. We made it to the parade ground near 13th AF, us dependents got in the middle with sponsors on the outside of the loose perimeter and waited for the choppers from Subic while keeping a sharp eye out for movement -- I was 9.

Best way to leave in a body bag is to have an O6 surgeon operate on you. That scenario is far more dangerous for the service member than 99% of USAF deployments.

- ex 61N

 

[JustPlainBill]

Best way to leave in a body bag is to have an O6 surgeon operate on you. That scenario is far more dangerous for the service member than 99% of USAF deployments.

- ex 61N

That doesn't surprise me --- USAF assignments (at least where the dependents were during 56-80) were fairly benign but during that era, a whole lot of people were TDY to Vietnam and we lost a few friends in that one. -- It took a local national contract GP to finally diagnose my mother's "dizzy spells" as borderline diabetes -- USAF docs had told her -- you're a bored dependent wife, get a hobby; take these meds 1/2 hour before you get dizzy, etc. -- and when she was in for a hysterectomy, she was left in a pile of her own vomit until Dad went in after work to visit her....but that can happen in civilian life also.

 

[Gastrapathy]

That FP was just a cowboy. It had nothing to do with shipboard medicine.

 

[A7x1]

I was 42 when I went into medical school and graduated an FM residency 50 with a wife, 2 elementary aged children, a house and a neurotic Jack Russel/Rat Terrier mix -- moved away from the family for medical school -- now I'm out with 2 children in college at the same time, $200k worth of student loans to pay off and college tuition for both plus saving for retirement -- you sure you want to do this? --- Going military has it's benefits -- student loan debt goes away -- having never done it, I can't speak to actually practicing as a military physician. Worked with a Navy doc who had brass balls when it came to things he would do as an FP but as he put it -- When you're out on a carrier treating a crewmember and if you decide to call it -- now you've got to set up evac, etc so in order to not impact mission requirements, he would do some things/take some chances that I wouldn't have. He also was on the ground in Afghanistan going out to FOBs checking on his Marines, etc and the convoy got hit.

As a former USAF brat, the life of a dependent isn't too bad but it's what you make of it and your spouse will play a big role in keeping the kids settled.

But -- there's a few things that you need to be clear about ---

1) If you're not ready to come out zipped up in a bag, missing something or the way you went in, don't go because you'll likely get good people killed.
2) Your family needs to be ok with the potential for getting a visit from the commander and the chaplain. It can happen.
3) Your family needs to be ok with the idea of having to board an aircraft and leave everything and everyone behind at a moment's notice if you have to evac. Your children need to be ok with continuing on their own if they get separated from mommy or daddy and know the rally points i.e. if something happens, wait for the deuce and half with the important papers bag if you're at home, if you're not at home, get to the base, preferably the flight line; once you're at the flightline, wait at the designated area unless you're told to board an aircraft by competent authority whether or not your family is with you. When you get back to CONUS, check in with a designated relative, etc. type of deal. Not such a big deal if you're stateside, but if you're overseas, it's just a fact of life....This is not hyperbole -- we had 175,000 gallons of JP4 blow one morning at Clark AFB, Philippines -- from the 15 foot wall of flames through the dependent housing area, we thought we were cut off from the flight line and the base was under attack. We made it to the parade ground near 13th AF, us dependents got in the middle with sponsors on the outside of the loose perimeter and waited for the choppers from Subic while keeping a sharp eye out for movement -- I was 9.

Hi there Bill,

You have definitely given me some great considerations to make regarding military medicine. As far as the loans go (in regard to going the civilian route), I am going to go PA or NP either way so I know that I will be initially stuck with at least 100k+ in debt. I'm ready for doubt. Luckily (or unluckily depending on perspective), I do not have any children to worry about. I don't have a neurotic Jack Russel terrier, but I do have a neurotic Chihuahua if it makes any difference.

Addressing some of your statements:

1) I wouldn't say that I'm ready to go out in a body bag. I'd rather live forever, to be honest. However, I can't really respond to this statement because I don't know how I would react in a combat situation. Therefore, I don't want to make any assumptions.

2 & 3) It seems like you had a very "interesting" (for lack of a better word) childhood as a military brat. I don't have a wife or kids to worry about at the moment, but this is definitely a consideration since I do plan on getting married or having children. My extended family has been suprisingly supportive of my desire to pursue HPSP. But I suppose they are not really thinking about me coming home in a body bag.
Again, thank you for your help. I will definitely consider the advice you gave me.

 

[notdeadyet]

I went to medical school in my late 30's. It's do-able. If you have a family, it's more challenging than when you're a single guy. Unless you're a natural genius, I'd plan on writing off much of the four years of medical school from a time management standpoint. At least my brain wasn't as spongy and elastic as it was in my younger years (but god I had fun in my 20's).

I'd recommend considering the Reserve Corps of the military. You can get in before age cut-offs and get a good feeling for whether the military is for you and you can transfer over later to active duty if you're so inclined. Unless you're prior service or have particular strong drive for military service, I'd be cautious about signing up for the hitch of HPSP in later years.

Read around on the site and you'll see lots of folks that are frustrated and unhappy with military life and are committed to 12 years of it all said and done. Your career is going to be shorter than most, so you can't laugh off your hitch and make it a distant memory if you don't like it.

Don't mean to be a naysayer. But there are easier ways to pay off medical school than the military. Unless you have a great reason for joining, I'd think long and hard. I've been reserve side for almost 10 years and love it, but part of the loving it is the fact that I can provide military service full time when I want to (and even when I don't!) but otherwise can make it a smaller part of my life and enjoy civilian pursuits and freedom (such as the best residency training around, travel where I want, live where I want, and leave when I want). Military service is called service for a reason. Make sure you really want to serve.

Not sure about the requirement mentioned above to be willing to be in a body bag or some such. Sounds pretty hard core. Pass.

 

[A7x1]

I went to medical school in my late 30's. It's do-able. If you have a family, it's more challenging than when you're a single guy. Unless you're a natural genius, I'd plan on writing off much of the four years of medical school from a time management standpoint. At least my brain wasn't as spongy and elastic as it was in my younger years (but god I had fun in my 20's).

I'd recommend considering the Reserve Corps of the military. You can get in before age cut-offs and get a good feeling for whether the military is for you and you can transfer over later to active duty if you're so inclined. Unless you're prior service or have particular strong drive for military service, I'd be cautious about signing up for the hitch of HPSP in later years.

Read around on the site and you'll see lots of folks that are frustrated and unhappy with military life and are committed to 12 years of it all said and done. Your career is going to be shorter than most, so you can't laugh off your hitch and make it a distant memory if you don't like it.

Don't mean to be a naysayer. But there are easier ways to pay off medical school than the military. Unless you have a great reason for joining, I'd think long and hard. I've been reserve side for almost 10 years and love it, but part of the loving it is the fact that I can provide military service full time when I want to (and even when I don't!) but otherwise can make it a smaller part of my life and enjoy civilian pursuits and freedom (such as the best residency training around, travel where I want, live where I want, and leave when I want). Military service is called service for a reason. Make sure you really want to serve.

Not sure about the requirement mentioned above to be willing to be in a body bag or some such. Sounds pretty hard core. Pass.

Hello NDY,

I definitely know what you mean about the effect of age on the brain. I have learned this especially in the year of science courses that I have taken. I am very glad that I was blessed to have a strong support system.

I am not sure that I have a great reason for wanting to pursue the HPSP. The financial incentives are probably my biggest motivator. I spent four years getting my undergraduate degree and, for half of the time I was in the program, I lived off of the allowances provided by student loans. The bachelors program was so much easier for me though so I did not have any problem working. It's definitely much harder for me to work now that I am taking these science courses.

I have been getting tired of having very little money in the bank to spend after covering my living expenses, tuition, and books. I guess that is why I am willing to accept the conditions of the HPSP. I just want to live a little bit more comfortably. Having the government cover my living expenses and other necessities would definitely be a big help. I know that is not really a good reason to join the military.

However, here are some other reasons that I would like to join the military (regardless of a scholarship).

I would also like to join the military just so that I could learn the discipline. I am a very undisciplined person. I always did whatever I wanted to do. I was spoiled. Going back to school has helped to instill some discipline into me, but I think the military would do a much better job of "making a man" out of me. I know a few people who have been broken by the military, but I also know people who have changed for the better because of it. I guess I am just hoping to be one of the latter.

Also, like many other people, joining the military was a lifelong dream for me. As a child, I was always fascinated with soldiers when I saw them on the street. I wanted the honor and respect that I saw so many people give them. I am assuming this desire stemmed from low self esteem issues. However, I still spent many years dreaming about joining the military once I turned 17 or 18. I know that the reality of military life is much different than a dream, but I can't help but to think that the sense of honor and patriotism one feels when putting on the uniform could do me some good.

Of course, from all the stories I've read, it seems like those feelings can fade fairly quickly for some.

I am not really sure if the two reasons I mentioned would be considered good reasons for joining the military, but I would assume that good reasoning in this case would be highly sujective. What may be indeed be a good reason for someone, may not be such a great reason for someone else. What would be a good reason to join the military, in your opinion?

Thanks for your response. I am going to do some research on joining the reserves while I am in school. I think that I will be able to talk to a recruiter about it in this case since AMEDD recruiters will not talk to me untill I get an acceptance letter from a med school.

 

[JustPlainBill]

Hi there Bill,

You have definitely given me some great considerations to make regarding military medicine. As far as the loans go (in regard to going the civilian route), I am going to go PA or NP either way so I know that I will be initially stuck with at least 100k+ in debt. I'm ready for doubt. Luckily (or unluckily depending on perspective), I do not have any children to worry about. I don't have a neurotic Jack Russel terrier, but I do have a neurotic Chihuahua if it makes any difference.

Addressing some of your statements:

1) I wouldn't say that I'm ready to go out in a body bag. I'd rather live forever, to be honest. However, I can't really respond to this statement because I don't know how I would react in a combat situation. Therefore, I don't want to make any assumptions.

2 & 3) It seems like you had a very "interesting" (for lack of a better word) childhood as a military brat. I don't have a wife or kids to worry about at the moment, but this is definitely a consideration since I do plan on getting married or having children. My extended family has been suprisingly supportive of my desire to pursue HPSP. But I suppose they are not really thinking about me coming home in a body bag.
Again, thank you for your help. I will definitely consider the advice you gave me.

Recognize this also -- the body bag comment came from a talk I had with my Dad who entered the Air Force less then 10 years after they became a distinct service from the Army -- they were still running obstacle courses with field gear at the time -- I am the only surviving child and when I came to him at 18 with the paperwork for the marines, he quite frankly scared the crap out of me and I took him up on his offer to pay for college and never went in -- I regret that decision but that's more of a "I disappointed my father" type of deal than anything else.

Living overseas was a helluva lot of fun -- it was more than just seeing it on vacation or a 2 week mission trip and you got to know some really cool people and get a different perspective. We adapted to the little stuff -- like not having potable water and having to lug water from the base water point when we lived off base, going to school with buses that had anti-grenade screens on them (local anti government rebels used to love to throw things into the windows of passenger buses), being on lock down when the local nationals went on strike, etc. -- but we pulled together as a base and generally had a good time. It was back in the bad old days of the 60s and 70s when we really thought that someone was going to pull the nuclear trigger soon..not that it can't happen today but the threat just seemed more real at that time -- hence the know where the hell to go and what to do if things got ugly. Check out the book, "Anything You Say, Sir" by Col. Truesdale available on the web if you're interested and want a good laugh....

Good luck --

 

[Perrotfish]

I would also like to join the military just so that I could learn the discipline. I am a very undisciplined person. I always did whatever I wanted to do. I was spoiled. Going back to school has helped to instill some discipline into me, but I think the military would do a much better job of "making a man" out of me

HPSP does not do this. I have had 6 total weeks of mandatory military training out of my 7 years in the military, and we had the weekends off during those 6 weeks.

Its questionable to what extent any part of the military 'makes a man' of someone, but if you go through enlisted boot camp they will at least try. Enlisted Marines go through a minimum of 22 weeks of intensive military training and then graduate to become boot Marines who live in the barracks and get further 'character building' from their NCOs. Docs, though, get six weeks of training, and after that you have no more supervision than any other physicians .

That being said, as a future physician you can look forward to at least 3 years of the most intense systems of hazing in the Us: residency. So you will get that experience, but being in the military will have nothing to do with it.

 

[HighPriest]

Residency was definitely more of a character builder for me than anything the military had to offer. I was also non-traditional, although not quite as close to the finish line as you, OP.

I think the idea of needing to come to terms with coming home in a body bag, or worrying about your family being evacuated, or coming under fire is technically true, but practically it is very unlikely to be something you'll ever run in to as a military physician. I know very few physicians who came under direct fire during deployments, and that was in a war zone. Most of them had some experiences with indirect mortar fire. I am aware of physicians that were killed, but was never within 3 degrees of any of them with 9 years of military service. And furthermore, the Army at least doesn't really run many hospitals in countries with a high likelihood of open revolt necessitating the need for evacuation. No hospital usually means no permanent station, or at least it would mean that your family is unlikely to be in any of those places with you. The world is a very different place than it was in the 60s and 70s - not all of those changes have made it safer, but our global presence has definitely retracted to safer venues, save for the actual war zones. No one is worried about the commies instigating an uprising in Manila, and it's just easier to pay the local governments to fight islamist insurgents in most cases.

Most military physicians are bored as hell during their deployments. Most military physicians spend the vast majority of their time just being physicians, stateside. So unless your family is evacuated from Missouri, they're probably safe where they are. And to be fair, I think you're in more danger of coming home in a body bag if you end up stationed at the naval hospital in Chicago than you are in Afghanistan. At least, your chances of being shot are statistically higher. (Great Lakes isn't in a bad area, but maybe you want to head to Checkerboard Lounge for some blues....that's where your convoy is likely to be "hit.")

I don't think you'll learn much discipline in the military - not as a physician. I think just the opposite ends up being true, because there's zero accountability for anything, and there's no expectation that you do any work beyond online mandatory training.

If you want to join, join to serve. If I were YOU, I'd just join as a PA or NP. Honestly, I think that's a pretty good option. You'll have total and complete autonomy. The military will view you as exactly the same as a physician with 10 years more experience than you have starting out, you'll make decent money, you'll have a pension at the end, and they'll pay for additional training (if you want to go nursing to CRNA, for example....which I think is the greatest racket ever created...I'd do that in a heartbeat if I had known about it 15 years ago...)

 

[A7x1]

I have not taken orders from anyone since I was twelve years old. I woke when I wanted to, I went to sleep when I wanted to, and I did whatever I wanted to do. This behavior effected me in a very negative way when I became an adult. I still wake up whenever I want to. I still do whatever I want to do. I have done freelance web design for a very long time so I never had to worry about going to work late or meeting any deadlines. I have missed so many opportunities because of this. This is what I mean by discipline. Getting a college education has helped me to become somewhat more disciplined because I do have to wake up at a certain time to be at a lecture. But even in this case, I can just choose to go to the lectures that best fit my schedule.

I think that having to obey someone else's orders, even for something as simple as when I have to report for duty, would do me good. I probably would hate it. But would it be good for me? I've read about many of the downsides of military life. However, are there only a few positive aspects of the military life in regards to character building, responsibility, and life experience?

Still, I thank everyone who has taken the time to post in my thread.

 

[Perrotfish]

I have not taken orders from anyone since I was twelve years old. I woke when I wanted to, I went to sleep when I wanted to, and I did whatever I wanted to do. This behavior effected me in a very negative way when I became an adult. I still wake up whenever I want to. I still do whatever I want to do. I have done freelance web design for a very long time so I never had to worry about going to work late or meeting any deadlines. I have missed so many opportunities because of this. This is what I mean by discipline. Getting a college education has helped me to become somewhat more disciplined because I do have to wake up at a certain time to be at a lecture. But even in this case, I can just choose to go to the lectures that best fit my schedule.

I think that having to obey someone else's orders, even for something as simple as when I have to report for duty, would do me good. I probably would hate it. But would it be good for me? I've read about many of the downsides of military life. However, are there only a few positive aspects of the military life in regards to character building, responsibility, and life experience?

Again, if you become a doctor, you will go through this with or without the military. Residency is one of the most hierarchical, discipline building, abusive training programs on the planet. It drives at least a few people every year to suicide. You will be at work a minimum of 80 hours per week with someone telling you exactly what to do and how to do it more or less every second of every day., and then you will be expected to go home and study how to be better at your job during whatever hours you have 'off'. You will have a sit down meeting to discuss your poor work ethic if you are so much as three minutes late to your 4:30 AM sign out after leaving the building at 10:30 p.m. the night before. You will be berated by absolutely everyone in the hospital and will have at least three sit down meeting to discuss your interpersonal skills if you react in any way to the abuse. Its worst during intern year but its pretty awful beginning in 3rd year of medical school and continuing through the end of residency

As a board certified doc, on the other hand, there isn't much enforced discipline, because you're supposed past that. Captains don't get screamed at and berated even in the Marine Corps, because they're too senior for that nonsense. That's the rank you come in as: Captain (LT in the Navy) and you are rapidly promoted to Major (LCDR in the Navy). While there are still expectations, like being on time, they are on par with any other service industry job. Similarly you CAN get called into the bosses office, just like you can if you work at an HMO, but that would mean you screwed up very badly. You are expected to be leading at that point, not being led.

 

[A7x1]

Again, if you become a doctor, you will go through this with or without the military. Residency is one of the most hierarchical, discipline building, abusive training programs on the planet. It drives at least a few people every year to suicide. You will be at work a minimum of 80 hours per week with someone telling you exactly what to do and how to do it more or less every second of every day., and then you will be expected to go home and study how to be better at your job during whatever hours you have 'off'. You will have a sit down meeting to discuss your poor work ethic if you are so much as three minutes late to your 4:30 AM sign out after leaving the building at 10:30 p.m. the night before. You will be berated by absolutely everyone in the hospital and will have at least three sit down meeting to discuss your interpersonal skills if you react in any way to the abuse. Its worst during intern year but its pretty awful beginning in 3rd year of medical school and continuing through the end of residency

As a board certified doc, on the other hand, there isn't much enforced discipline, because you're supposed past that. Captains don't get screamed at and berated even in the Marine Corps, because they're too senior for that nonsense. That's the rank you come in as: Captain (LT in the Navy) and you are rapidly promoted to Major (LCDR in the Navy). While there are still expectations, like being on time, they are on par with any other service industry job. Similarly you CAN get called into the bosses office, just like you can if you work at an HMO, but that would mean you screwed up very badly. You are expected to be leading at that point, not being led.

I understand that civilian residency can be just as demanding and will definitely build character. I am sure that attending medical school as a civilian will force me to change some of my bad habits. However, as a civilian, I can always walk away from medical school or a residency. . . albeit with a loss of lots of time and money.

Is this something easily done with the U.S.military? If I am a third year HSPS med student that decides to drop out of med school, won't I have to serve 3 years of AD in some capacity anyway, or would I simply owe the government whatever they invested in me?

The kind of discipline that I am talking about is not the kind one learns through hard work alone (or being screamed at), but also through having to humble themselves and follow orders/show up on time/or do anything else required of them. Although most people learn this kind of discipline in the civilian world because they must obey their bosses, this is something that the civilian world doesn't offer me.

 

[Atlas Shrugged]

What makes you think the military is going to change you?

You sound like a pretty terrible candidate for medicine or the military.

You’re romanticizing things.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[A7x1]

I am not sure that I am romanticizing things. I would assume that the military has changed quite a few people for the better. I am just assuming of course. I also am unsure that I am a terrible candidate for medicine. I've done over the thousand hours required for entry into a PA program, and I've always worked well with patients.

I work well with patients because I loved what I was doing. Whether I was doing triage, giving injection, scribing, or dealing with a difficult patient, I never hated it. I have been vomited on, I have been yelled at for no reason, and even assaulted (and this was in a small clinic), yet I always loved doing what I was doing. Granted, I only worked in the field for a little less than two years. . .

We will just have to see what happens in the future.

I may or may not be a terrible candidate for the military. Will the military change me? I can assume that it will change me. However, will it change me for the better, or for the worse? That is the question. . .

How about yourself? Are you a great candidate for either? If so, what makes you a great candidate?

 

[Perrotfish]

The kind of discipline that I am talking about is not the kind one learns through hard work alone (or being screamed at), but also through having to humble themselves and follow orders/show up on time/or do anything else required of them. Although most people learn this kind of discipline in the civilian world because they must obey their bosses, this is something that the civilian world doesn't offer me.

Again: this is residency. You will be humbled, and you will have to follow orders. Again: this is not military medicine. The military has no carrots and surprisingly few sticks to motivate you to actually do what you're told, which is why we have so many problems in the medical Corps with making people do the things they are supposed to do. If you are picturing your department head yelling at you while you do pushups in the rain then you aren't listening.

I understand that civilian residency can be just as demanding and will definitely build character. I am sure that attending medical school as a civilian will force me to change some of my bad habits. However, as a civilian, I can always walk away from medical school or a residency. . . albeit with a loss of lots of time and money.

As a civilian, you can walk away from residency in much the same sense that you can leave the 4th story of a building by the window rather than taking the stairs. You will have nearly half a million in debt which cannot be discharged in bankruptcy, and will have invested at least 4 years of your life learning how to do one job that you can't do without finishing residency. The system is set up so that, if you leave one residency, its almost impossible to get another one. If you get more than a year or two into this process you basically need to finish. That's what allows medical training to be so abusive.

Is this something easily done with the U.S.military? If I am a third year HSPS med student that decides to drop out of med school, won't I have to serve 3 years of AD in some capacity anyway, or would I simply owe the government whatever they invested in me

Its up to them. They have the option to make you pay back the debt with interest, to make you serve on active duty, or to discharge your debt and just let you go. Normally they make you pay back the debt but I have heard of all of the above happening. I'm not sure they have a clear rule for this, it seems like they are making it up each time.

 

[Perrotfish]

How about yourself? Are you a great candidate for either? If so, what makes you a great candidate?

A good candidate for military medicine:

1) Went to a lower tier, high cost medical school and does not qualify for a scholarship.
2) Does not have any serious medical or weight problems, and is willing to exercise at least twice a week. This organization makes fat people miserable.
3) Is willing and able to move to remote locations. Is not married to a professional who needs to be in a major city to find work.
.4) Believes, basically, in the mission and culture of the military.
5) Is willing to deploy for up to a year at a time. Has no obligations in the US that would prevent a deployment
6) Desires a specialty that has a high volume and acuity of patients in an adolescent patient population and among young families. Sports medicine docs, OBs, orthos interested in sports medicine, pediatricians, and family doctors yes. General surgeons, emergency room doctors, and neurosurgeons no.
7) Is not interested primarily in research. Wants to practice medicine rather than studying it.
8) Maybe the most important thing: is tolerant of bureaucracy. Imagine you are at the DMV. You wait 4 hours in line, get to the window, and they say they are closing for the day and you need to start of at window 2. You wait 2 additional hours, get to window 2, and are told you are in the wrong line and need to go to window 4. You wait 2 additional hours, get to the head of the line at window 4, and are told that you didn't complete the online survey (that no one told you about) that you need to turn in with the form you are holding , and you need to come back the following day with the survey completed. Obviously no one likes this situation, but are you ENRAGED? Or do you let out a quiet sigh, fill out the online survey, and come back the next day? The people who really hate the military are the ones who can't deal with this kind of situation.

 

[notdeadyet]

I understand that civilian residency can be just as demanding and will definitely build character. I am sure that attending medical school as a civilian will force me to change some of my bad habits. However, as a civilian, I can always walk away from medical school or a residency. . . albeit with a loss of lots of time and money.

I'd sit down long and hard with a calculator prior to taking the plunge on this.

If you are thinking you need the "discipline" and "character building" of the military to make it through medical school, I'd strongly consider NP or PA school.

You can't "walk away" from medical school nearly as easily as you think. You'll have $200-$400K of debt, 1-4 years of wasted opportunity cost, and no marketable skills. The first two still apply walking away from residency (though higher debt and cost) and your "skills" by having an MD are not as beneficial as you think. Don't believe the hype of walking into consulting gigs and making a fortune. If discipline is your issue, you won't be doing those kind of jobs and they don't care for drop-outs much anyway.

You can walk away from NP or PA school with a much lower cost. If you go the NP route, you still have the ability to work as an RN.

I agree with the others, the military does not sound like a good fit for you. Or a good fit for the military.

 

[HighPriest]

Again: this is residency. You will be humbled, and you will have to follow orders. Again: this is not military medicine. The military has no carrots and surprisingly few sticks to motivate you to actually do what you're told, which is why we have so many problems in the medical Corps with making people do the things they are supposed to do. If you are picturing your department head yelling at you while you do pushups in the rain then you aren't listening.


As a civilian, you can walk away from residency in much the same sense that you can leave the 4th story of a building by the window rather than taking the stairs. You will have nearly half a million in debt which cannot be discharged in bankruptcy, and will have invested at least 4 years of your life learning how to do one job that you can't do without finishing residency. The system is set up so that, if you leave one residency, its almost impossible to get another one. If you get more than a year or two into this process you basically need to finish. That's what allows medical training to be so abusive.



Its up to them. They have the option to make you pay back the debt with interest, to make you serve on active duty, or to discharge your debt and just let you go. Normally they make you pay back the debt but I have heard of all of the above happening. I'm not sure they have a clear rule for this, it seems like they are making it up each time.

I agree with all of this. To be honest, the Army only ever cared if I was there when they wanted my urine. Beyond that, I really never took an order from anyone to do anything after residency. If I didn't show up to work, I honestly don't think anything would have happened. Maybe my front desk would have called me and asked if I wanted to reschedule my patients or not. I never tested the theory because #1 it was wrong and #2 I learned to put patient care first in my residency.

Joining the military because you want someone to make you have some commitment to something is a failing plan. All that will happen is that you'll be angry and resentful every day until you get out.

 

[HighPriest]

A good candidate for military medicine:

1) Went to a lower tier, high cost medical school and does not qualify for a scholarship.
2) Does not have any serious medical or weight problems, and is willing to exercise at least twice a week. This organization makes fat people miserable.
3) Is willing and able to move to remote locations. Is not married to a professional who needs to be in a major city to find work.
.4) Believes, basically, in the mission and culture of the military.
5) Is willing to deploy for up to a year at a time. Has no obligations in the US that would prevent a deployment
6) Desires a specialty that has a high volume and acuity of patients in an adolescent patient population and among young families. Sports medicine docs, OBs, orthos interested in sports medicine, pediatricians, and family doctors yes. General surgeons, emergency room doctors, and neurosurgeons no.
7) Is not interested primarily in research. Wants to practice medicine rather than studying it.
8) Maybe the most important thing: is tolerant of bureaucracy. Imagine you are at the DMV. You wait 4 hours in line, get to the window, and they say they are closing for the day and you need to start of at window 2. You wait 2 additional hours, get to window 2, and are told you are in the wrong line and need to go to window 4. You wait 2 additional hours, get to the head of the line at window 4, and are told that you didn't complete the online survey (that no one told you about) that you need to turn in with the form you are holding , and you need to come back the following day with the survey completed. Obviously no one likes this situation, but are you ENRAGED? Or do you let out a quiet sigh, fill out the online survey, and come back the next day? The people who really hate the military are the ones who can't deal with this kind of situation.

Agree with all of this as well. I'd also say (and this is represented piece mail above):
Wants to join to support the Army's plan, whether you think it's good or bad, and whether you think it's ruining your career or not. If you can milk satisfaction from sacrificing everything you've worked for and most things you prize to a cause that you're told is just despite all evidence to the contrary , you'll love milmed. But they will NOT teach you to do that. You are either that guy or you're not, and if you're not you're not going to be satisfied.

 

[Perrotfish]

Nvm

 

[HighPriest]

Again, if I were you, and you really want to be in the military, be a military PA.

Much more favorable cost/benefit ratio.

 

[A7x1]

Let me clarify something,

I am not interested in joining the military as a way to "force myself" to commit to medical school. I will either make it or fail on my own. I do not need to use the military as a way to motivate me to navigate the hurdles of medical school. I was using the medical school example in response to possible differences between the discipline you gain from civilian residencies/medical school vs the military. As I mentioned in the post, I understand that you will lose time and money if you decide to quit medical school. However, the threat of losing time and still being forced to serve AD may be a motivator for SOME (but not for all or even most) people to stick through. As Perrotfish mentioned, however, not everyone will be forced to serve AD if they decide to quit medical school. So the point is moot, anyway.

The kind of discipline that appeals to me is, ironically, is related to the list of that PF wrote in one of his other posts. I am assuming that medical officers are subject to yearly physical exams (twice a year?). This is something that is not required of civilians. Yes, you should remain healthy if you want to perform optimally in medical school, but it is not a requirement. So I am hoping that the physical requirements of the military well help me to develop good healthy habits, and keep these habits after I have served (I am basing this idea on Allport's concept of functional autonomy). Of course, this idea relies on the premise that the military actually has strict physical health requirements.

To those of you who are saying that I may not be a good fit for the military and vice versa, I respect your opinion. You are definitely entitled to have them. You may even be right. However, I will just give you some advice. You should not jump to conclusions. The reality is that no one here knows me. I may be undisciplined, and I actually am pretty lazy (in my PERSONAL life), but I get the job done. I have a 3.9 cGPA and have a 4.0 sGPA for my one year of science prereqs (gen chem and bio). I also have good LORs because the people who work with me know that I give my all, both academically and professionally. I have never had to ask for recommendations; my colleagues have always offered them to me. Maybe I am wrong in thinking that the military will help to build discipline in the areas in which I am undisciplined, however, you do not really know me well enough to come to the conclusion that I am not a good fit for the military.

Only experience can determine whether I will love or hate the military life. I have been soaking up the valuable information that you all are giving everyone on this forum. I appreciate you all taking the time to respond to posts. I have been considering all the information that I have gained on this forum over the past week. I am not trying to argue with you all about whether or not military life can instill discipline in me or anyone else. I have never served, so I have no idea. However, my motivation to join the military is not based soley or even primarily on discipline building. At the end of the day, the only way I will ever KNOW if the military is right or wrong for me is through my own experience.

 

[Perrotfish]

You are, again, missing the point. you are not a bad fit because of what you want to give to the military, you are a bad fit because of what you want from the military. You want personal growth they don't facilitate, a memorable experience they do not provide, and a sense of purpose that they don't instill. Again, there are parts of the military that have what you want, but military medicine doesn't.

I get the sense that you aren't listening. No matter what people say, you are going to argue that you can 'make the cut', when all that anyone is arguing is that there is no cut to make. Military medicine is just medicine with more online training.

Anyway good luck. If you insist on doing this you might be happiest in the Army. They seem to provide the most opportunities to doctors to pretend they are in the Infantry.

 

[A7x1]

You are, again, missing the point. you are not a bad fit because of what you want to give to the military, you are a bad fit because of what you want from the military. You want personal growth they don't facilitate, a memorable experience they do not provide, and a sense of purpose that they don't instill. Again, there are parts of the military that have what you want, but military medicine doesn't.

I get the sense that you aren't listening. No matter what people say, you are going to argue that you can 'make the cut', when all that anyone is arguing is that there is no cut to make. Military medicine is just medicine with more online training.

Anyway good luck. If you insist on doing this you might be happiest in the Army. They seem to provide the most opportunities to doctors to pretend they are in the Infantry.

Hello PF,

I am not sure that you are listening to what I am trying to say, actually. You are generalizing. The military may not facilitate personal growth for most people. The military may not provide a memorable experience for everyone. Maybe everyone will not feel a sense of purpose by joining the military. Maybe even most people will regret their decision to join the military. However, you have no idea what my experience will be like in the military. I may hate it, or I may not.

I know a few people who have done military med, and loved it. I would think that you also know a few people who had a positive experience in military med.

Even if they are only a select few, you do not know me well enough to know how I will feel about it. I know myself better than you ever will, and even I cannot know. I am not sure why you believe that you can judge someone based on a few sentences posted in a forum.

Also, you seem to think that personal growth is my only motivation for thinking about joining the military. Where did you get that idea? I have said multiple times that I have other reasons (I have listed some of them in this thread) and that personal growth is not my primary motivator. My other reasons may also not be the best motivations for joining the military, but you should also not assume that I have listed every single one of my reasons in this thread. Which is why you cannot make assumptions about what I want from the military. The reality is that you do not even know a handful of the reasons why I want to join the military.

I am also not sure where you get this idea that I want some infantry type training, or want to join the military so I can have the experience of an enlisted soldier. When I talk about discipline, I am not referring to boot camp. I am not thinking of joining the military so that I can be a doctor that is pretending that he is in the infantry. I do not know why you would come to that conclusion. Perhaps you just like being difficult. You do have a MD in horribleness, after all.

Either way, I did not open this thread to discuss my fitness for military service. Should I decide to pursue HPSP, I will allow the military to decide that for me. Feel free to express your opinion regarding this issue, but also understand that it will be a fool's errand to try to convince me. Your opinion about my fitness would never make me change my mind unless you can give me a credible reason as to why I am not fit. And to sum up why your opinion is not credible in this regard, let me restate:

You have very little idea about what I want from the military, or what I have to offer. You don't know me.

Just FYI, I *most likely* will not try to pursue HPSP. So, you are also wasting your time trying to convince me that I am not a good fit.

 

[Perrotfish]

Again, best of luck.

 

[HighPriest]

Yeah, you don't want information or advice. You want validation. Have fun, buddy.

 

[A7x1]

Yeah, you don't want information or advice. You want validation. Have fun, buddy.

I do not want to come off as a jack ass, but some (not all) of the respondents to this thread do not seem to want to offer me the advice that I am requesting. As I have already mentioned, I did not create this thread for you to give me advice regarding a decision to pursue HPSP. I asked for specific advice whether or not it would be a good idea to pursue HPSP as a medical student rather than PA student. Therefore, you cannot really criticize me for not taking your advice in that regard because I never asked for it.

I have already read, and will continue to read, the threads on this forum regarding the benefits and disadvantages of HPSP. I will take into consideration all of the advice that everyone has given in that regard. But some of you want to be condescending to me because I do not want your advice or opinion regarding my decision. I never asked for it. I am trying not to take any offense to it, but as I mentioned, I did not ask for your opinion regarding whether or not I would be making a bad decision to pursue HPSP. I just wanted to know which route (MD or PA HPSP) would be a better idea at my age.

So once again (and with all due respect), I do not want your advice or opinion, let alone validation, regarding my decision about pursuing HPSP. I will take all of the information I read on this forum so that I can make that particular decision on my own.

 

[notdeadyet]

Anyway good luck. If you insist on doing this you might be happiest in the Army. They seem to provide the most opportunities to doctors to pretend they are in the Infantry.

I vote Navy. Can't GMOs attached to USMC units wear the blue dress uniform? Pretty macho and memorable...

 

[notdeadyet]

As I have already mentioned, I did not create this thread for you to give me advice regarding a decision to pursue HPSP. I asked for specific advice whether or not it would be a good idea to pursue HPSP as a medical student rather than PA student. Therefore, you cannot really criticize me for not taking your advice in that regard because I never asked for it.

If my niece asks me if I recommend she buy a yellow or red Lamborghini, I'm going to keep telling her that she shouldn't buy the car.

But best of luck. I'd recommend NP > PA > MD/DO.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Green lambo obv

 

[A7x1]

If my niece asks me if I recommend she buy a yellow or red Lamborghini, I'm going to keep telling her that she shouldn't buy the car.

But best of luck. I'd recommend NP > PA > MD/DO.

I know your point. Firstly, I doubt that you would complain about how she just does not want to take any advice FROM ANYONE if she informs you that she is the one who will be making the decision (and that she has not decided yet). You might tell repeatedly tell her not to buy the car, but are you really going to make a big deal about it every single time that she does not listen?

Secondly, I am not your niece. So I especially doubt that you would "keep" telling me that I should not buy the lambo. All I need to know is one thing: red or blue (or perhaps a better color, a different car ec).

Either way, thanks for your advice.

 

[Perrotfish]

I vote Navy. Can't GMOs attached to USMC units wear the blue dress uniform? Pretty macho and memorable...

Nah, they get The Marine cammies but kakhis and dress uniforms stay Navy

I said Army because if a doc really wants to play at being Infantry he's going to do it in the short courses. In the Army it's turned into kind of a thing for advancement, so you can justify earning you EMB, then doing the all doctor mountain med course, then going to jump school, and if you're hardcore then comes Ranger school. All in that's nearly 5 months of military nonsense plus the EMB prep.

If you're Navy they best that you can do are the 3 week mountain and cold weather med courses, which are mostly filled with junior Corpsman and don't affect your advancement, so if they let you go it means you're close by and they're feeling charitable. Maybe you could also do the CBRNE course if you don't mind inspecting the closet where they store the Hazmat suits every month.

 

[A7x1]

Nah, they get The Marine cammies but kakhis and dress uniforms stay Navy

I said Army because if a doc really wants to play at being Infantry he's going to do it in the short courses. In the Army it's turned into kind of a thing for advancement, so you can justify earning you EMB, then doing the all doctor mountain med course, then going to jump school, and if you're hardcore then comes Ranger school. All in that's nearly 5 months of military nonsense plus the EMB prep.

If you're Navy they best that you can do are the 3 week mountain and cold weather med courses, which are mostly filled with junior Corpsman and don't affect your advancement, so if they let you go it means you're close by and they're feeling charitable. Maybe you could also do the CBRNE course if you don't mind inspecting the closet where they store the Hazmat suits every month.

You are right. . .My decision willi come down totally to the color of the uniform .

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

I do not want to come off as a jack ass

Too late. You come off like my wife asking asking my opinion about some new pair of clunky boots she found at some outlet: she doesn't really want my input--she's going to buy them anyway and just wants to hear me say how great they'll look with that sweater dress and what a good deal they are.

Most of us are skeptical about all this character and leadership pablum because the military doesn't turn the lazy jerk-offs we know into hard-charging leaders, just like the hard-charging thoroughly decent leaders we've known were generally like that before they ever entered the military. The fact is, it has more to do with innate individual character than some "leadership dust" the military sprinkles on you when you graduate basic. The military tends to attract honest people who place value in service and simply by being surrounded by these people every day one has examples to emulate and inspiration to do one's best (whatever obstacles are placed in one's way by the organization--and believe me the obstacles are legion).

But there are institutions in the civilian world that attract these types of people too (I know from firsthand experience). The military doesn't have a monopoly on it.

Anyway, as your 10 paragraph replies to perceived slights and "you don't know my truth" Lena Dunhamesque responses indicate you will likely be a trying person to work with, I hope that, when you join, you are not my resident.

Buen dia.

 

[A7x1]

Too late. You come off like my wife asking asking my opinion about some new pair of clunky boots she found at some outlet: she doesn't really want my input--she's going to buy them anyway and just wants to hear me say how great they'll look with that sweater dress and what a good deal they are.

Most of us are skeptical about all this character and leadership pablum because the military doesn't turn the lazy jerk-offs we know into hard-charging leaders, just like the hard-charging thoroughly decent leaders we've known were generally like that before they ever entered the military. The fact is, it has more to do with innate individual character than some "leadership dust" the military sprinkles on you when you graduate basic. The military tends to attract honest people who place value in service and simply by being surrounded by these people every day one has examples to emulate and inspiration to do one's best (whatever obstacles are placed in one's way by the organization--and believe me the obstacles are legion).

But there are institutions in the civilian world that attract these types of people too (I know from firsthand experience). The military doesn't have a monopoly on it.

Anyway, as your 10 paragraph replies to perceived slights and "you don't know my truth" Lena Dunhamesque responses indicate you will likely be a trying person to work with, I hope that, when you join, you are not my resident.

Buen dia.

Ziehl,

You should at least make an accurate comparison if you want to tell me that I am coming off as a jack ass. How do I "come off" in this thread? Like your wife does when she is buying boots? Let us be more realistic.

Firstly, the decision to buy boots is very different than the decision to join the military. You cannot compare one's behavior to the behavior of another person who is making a very different decision under very different circumstances.

Secondly, do not compare the situation to that of your wife. This situation is like some random stranger engaged in conversation with another stranger about their opinion regarding a very SPECIFIC question about their boots. It is like if I asked you if you thought these boots looked ugly, and you would comment on how I could not afford those boots.

As the title state, I asked a very specific question. It had nothing to do with whether or not I had realistic expectations of military life, or whether or not I had the right motives.

I simply mentioned *SOME* of my motives for wanting to join the military. I mentioned these motives to a certain person (notdeadyet). I understand that the motives I mentioned are not good motives to join. I stated that multiple times in this thread. However, for some reason, people think that was the purpose of the thread. You can comment on my motives all you want to, this is a public forum. However, why complain about my rejecting your advice when I never asked for YOU or anyone else (besides notdeadyet, and not even him in reality) any advice regarding this issue?

The problem with most people (and most likely yourself) is that they do not want to read through the entire thread and through my "10 paragraph responses" so you restate the same flawed logic as the posters before you did. As I have restated many times.

Do not complain about someone not taking your advice if your advice is unsolicited. So, yes, I do not want anyone's input about my motives or decisions about pursuing HPSP; I never asked for it. I actually do not mind someone telling me that it is a bad decision, as I have mentioned countless times. However, when you continue to persist to offer unwanted advice, and then begin to question my character because I do not accept your advice. . .That is where it becomes a problem.

And as far as you claiming that I would be a "trying person to work with", and the statement about you hoping that "I would not be your resident", you have no idea what you are talking about. You have no idea what I am like to work with. You just make assumptions based on a few paragaphs in a forum thread which you most likely did not even take the time to read in its entirety.

Perhaps the compulsion that I have to continually correct you people could be indicative of some personality flaw on my part. However, that in and of itself would not indicate what I am like to work with. We are all flawed. So if you want to make an argument, I suggest you take an intro to logic course because your argument is also flawed. Oddly enough, even though you are the kind of person that posts these comments, I still would not make a judgment about your character since I do not know you from the single comment you posted on my thread.

So once again and for the fifth time, if you are going to compare my behavior to someone else's behavior, you *should* at least make an accurate comparison.

 

[Helpful Troll]

1. At my age, would it be a "bad" decision for me to go to med school rather than PA or nursing school? Yes

2. Will I still be able meet the age requirement of any U.S. military branch if I start med school at around 37.5 years old? Waiver likely required and not guaranteed for all three of these military career choices.

Come on back and ask your questions again when you have a Med School and HPSP acceptance. You can make the decision to sign the military contract, or not, at that point.

 

[A7x1]

Come on back and ask your questions again when you have a Med School and HPSP acceptance. You can make the decision to sign the military contract, or not, at that point.

I am just going to take your advice and hopefully let this thread die. So I will try not to write a novel. . .However, I do have to say one thing before I go (everyone else gets to respond to my thread without having to be insulted, right?). I have seen your posts in other HPSP threads, HT. Even though many of these people have explcitly said that they are premed or predental students, I do not *OFTEN* see you telling people to come back when they have been accepted into a med program. On the contrary, I have seen you offer some good advice. Why snub me off? What was your intention?

Kind of hypocritical, imho. I have to assume that you are just trying to allow the thread to die. So perhaps it would be a better idea not to have written anything at all (depending on your motives)? I know that at this point I am no longer going to get any real advice here regarding the questions that I asked. . .So just realize that if you respond in the manner you did (thanks for anwering my first question with a simple "yes" rather than elaborating, by the way ), you are just being rude and offensive. As such, I will respond. Jesus Christ, just let the thread die if you do not actually want to contribute to it.

 

[SDN]

Calling it. This thread is dead.