Too many ODs??

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luckyfool

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Has this idea ever occured to any of you optometry graduates that there are currently too many ODs in the job market? Do you think optometry schools are pumping out an overflowing number of ODs -- messing up the ideal supply and demand of optometric profession? As a result, there is more competitions among ODs and the job availability is also lowered.

Do anyone of you agree with me that all optometry schools should raise their admission standards and limit the number of new students entering every year?

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Has this idea ever occured to any of you optometry graduates that there are currently too many ODs in the job market? Do you think optometry schools are pumping out an overflowing number of ODs -- messing up the ideal supply and demand of optometric profession? As a result, there is more competitions among ODs and the job availability is also lowered.

Do anyone of you agree with me that all optometry schools should raise their admission standards and limit the number of new students entering every year?


not only do i agree, i have been advocating this for some time now. i dont know what type of professional you are, but your viewpoint is right on.

what needs to happen is a movement that occurred in dental in the 80's. increase admission standards and decrease enrollment. right now we have an osteopathic medicine institution gearing up to start an OD program. exactly what we DO NOT NEED.
 
not only do i agree, i have been advocating this for some time now. i dont know what type of professional you are, but your viewpoint is right on.

After extensive research on the subject I have come to the conclusion that in the US we currently have an excess of one optometrist.

That optometrist is you. Sorry. You can turn in your ophthalmoscope to the AOA and you will receive a wonderful parting gift. A life time of free "comprehensive" eye exams at your nearest doc. in a box. Good luck and thanks for your service to this fine profession. ;)
 
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not only do i agree, i have been advocating this for some time now. i dont know what type of professional you are, but your viewpoint is right on.

what needs to happen is a movement that occurred in dental in the 80's. increase admission standards and decrease enrollment. right now we have an osteopathic medicine institution gearing up to start an OD program. exactly what we DO NOT NEED.

Why is the AOA allowing this to materialize? ..and its members are doing nothing to prevent this from happening? afterall, whatever happens to the optometry world now will affect us all in the future.
 
Why is the AOA allowing this to materialize? ..and its members are doing nothing to prevent this from happening? afterall, whatever happens to the optometry world now will affect us all in the future.
To my knowledge, the AOA has no real control over the number of schools there are. The credentialling process has been looked into, and from what I understand there is no way to not credential a new school as long as it meets the requirements. On top of that, the AOA is a little gun shy and fears anti-trust lawsuits so it is not willing to take a stand on this issue.
 
To my knowledge, the AOA has no real control over the number of schools there are. The credentialling process has been looked into, and from what I understand there is no way to not credential a new school as long as it meets the requirements. On top of that, the AOA is a little gun shy and fears anti-trust lawsuits so it is not willing to take a stand on this issue.

How does dentistry seem to have control over their own numbers and OD's don't? And why is their situation different from ours?
 
How does dentistry seem to have control over their own numbers and OD's don't? And why is their situation different from ours?
I would imagine that the ADA is more proactive in protecting the profession, but that is just a guess. I don't think the real issue is that the AOA cannot control the numbers, only that they will not.
 
Damn right I agree.

Has this idea ever occured to any of you optometry graduates that there are currently too many ODs in the job market? Do you think optometry schools are pumping out an overflowing number of ODs -- messing up the ideal supply and demand of optometric profession? As a result, there is more competitions among ODs and the job availability is also lowered.

Do anyone of you agree with me that all optometry schools should raise their admission standards and limit the number of new students entering every year?
 
After extensive research on the subject I have come to the conclusion that in the US we currently have an excess of one optometrist.

That optometrist is you. Sorry. You can turn in your ophthalmoscope to the AOA and you will receive a wonderful parting gift. A life time of free "comprehensive" eye exams at your nearest doc. in a box. Good luck and thanks for your service to this fine profession. ;)


can i keep my Rx pad and retinoscpe so that i might stand in front of walmart or at a kiosk in the mall and catch those potential "buyers of my Rx" that walk by? it'd be swell if i could.
 
can i keep my Rx pad and retinoscpe so that i might stand in front of walmart or at a kiosk in the mall and catch those potential "buyers of my Rx" that walk by? it'd be swell if i could.

nevermind. i guess someone already had that idea of selling spectacle and contacts Rxs in shopping malls - its called pearle and lenscrafters.
 
not only do i agree, i have been advocating this for some time now. i dont know what type of professional you are, but your viewpoint is right on.

what needs to happen is a movement that occurred in dental in the 80's. increase admission standards and decrease enrollment. right now we have an osteopathic medicine institution gearing up to start an OD program. exactly what we DO NOT NEED.


I guess all the doctors that want a limit on the number of ODs are the one that practice already and afraid of a little competition.
Ask yourself, if you are so successful, why would YOUR patients seek another professional. Second, if they seek another doctor, then you are no different from anyone. Third, if patients do not value your services, then YOU FAIL. Fourth, admit it, it is all about financial gain and it has nothing to do with the quality of eyecare.
I agree that we should set higher standard on selection process so we have better doctor to replace the "bad" or "arrogant" doctors that are practicing. Optometry can only better if we educate patients on the value of our services and not "bashing" the schools for graduating too many doctors.
 
Ask yourself, if you are so successful, why would YOUR patients seek another professional.

in order, starting with most common reason:

1) some idiot does and eye exam at the mall for $29.

2) i dont take their vision insurance, which pays a whopping $39 for an eye exam.

3) they move
 
I guess all the doctors that want a limit on the number of ODs are the one that practice already and afraid of a little competition.
Ask yourself, if you are so successful, why would YOUR patients seek another professional. Second, if they seek another doctor, then you are no different from anyone. Third, if patients do not value your services, then YOU FAIL. Fourth, admit it, it is all about financial gain and it has nothing to do with the quality of eyecare.
I agree that we should set higher standard on selection process so we have better doctor to replace the "bad" or "arrogant" doctors that are practicing. Optometry can only better if we educate patients on the value of our services and not "bashing" the schools for graduating too many doctors.

You are missing the forest for the trees. If you notice, most of us that are strongly opinionated on this matter are in very successful practices. I could care less about more competition in my area, we have been successful not because of a lack of competition, but because of sound business practices. My particular practice has been established for nearly 30 years.

I am only going to speak for myself, but I believe if there were fewer ODs turned out(lower admissions and markedly raised standards for admission) you would likely see fewer ODs running out to push glasses at the local Walmart/Costco. It is no secret on this board that I believe the single greatest damage done to the profession is done by those that push spectacles at the local doc in the box. Not only does it devalue our services, but it contributes largely to other healthcare fields looking down on what we do when they see someone performing $39 exams in the mall next to the Sharper Image store.

Furthermore, I think the schools and colleges of optometry are shameless. They continue to turn out new graduates in huge numbers and at ever-increasing costs to go out and try to scrape a living in an increasingly impacted profession; nobody benefits from this except the schools. The schools should be bashed, and often. I write one or two letters a year letting my school know how disgusted I am with their practices. It makes me want to vomit. I will NEVER contribute one dollar to my school, nor will I ever attend a School sponsored CE program. This would seem odd to many seeing as how I have done very well in the profession(no thanks to the school). The rest of you need to wake up.

Posner
 
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You are missing the forest for the trees. If you notice, most of us that are strongly opinionated on this matter are in very successful practices. I could care less about more competition in my area, we have been successful not because of a lack of competition, but because of sound business practices. My particular practice has been established for nearly 30 years.

I am only going to speak for myself, but I believe if there were fewer ODs turned out(lower admissions and markedly raised standards for admission) you would likely see fewer ODs running out to push glasses at the local Walmart/Costco. It is no secret on this board that I believe the single greatest damage done to the profession is done by those that push spectacles at the local doc in the box. Not only does it devalue our services, but it contributes largely to other healthcare fields looking down on what we do when they see someone performing $39 exams in the mall next to the Sharper Image store.

Furthermore, I think the schools and colleges of optometry are shameless. They continue to turn out new graduates in huge numbers and at ever-increasing costs to go out and try to scrape a living in an increasingly impacted profession; nobody benefits from this except the schools. The schools should be bashed, and often. I write one or two letters a year letting my school know how disgusted I am with their practices. It makes me want to vomit. I will NEVER contribute one dollar to my school, nor will I ever attend a School sponsored CE program. This would seem odd to many seeing as how I have done very well in the profession(no thanks to the school). The rest of you need to wake up.

Posner

Posner - will you marry me? correct again. it is in fact started by OD programs pushing out more grads.
 
who can blame those new OD graduates who work for commercial practices now? there are so many ODs who have over 200,000 dollars in debt. Commericial practices allow them the easy way out to pay off those hefty debts and earn a decent living. They would care less for the face of our profession because a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do (ladies also apply :) ) to make a living.

I wouldn't be surprised if I have to go into commericial when I graduate in 4 years because, like others, I have debts of my own. :(
 
who can blame those new OD graduates who work for commercial practices now? there are so many ODs who have over 200,000 dollars in debt. Commericial practices allow them the easy way out to pay off those hefty debts and earn a decent living. They would care less for the face of our profession because a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do (ladies also apply :) ) to make a living.

I wouldn't be surprised if I have to go into commericial when I graduate in 4 years because, like others, I have debts of my own. :(

great point here too. its a cycle:
too many ODs, and many of those too many ODs are doing too many refractions-called-eye-exams for $29 --->not enough patients for private offices or commercial --->private offices not hiring new grads and franchises having an easy time making working conditions increasingly difficult--->forcing new grads into fighting for "oversupply causing, lower eye care standard" positions=too many ODs, and many of those too many ODs are doing too many refractions-called-eye-exams for $29


increase standards and decrease graduates. we start seeing situations where commercial and private offices dont have to herd patients through like cattle and quality of care increases. the doc has more time for decision making and less time for "peddling glasses". it would also help if, instead of giving away our services for a mere $29 for an eye exam, we appropriately charged for services. this would decrease the "cattle mill" effect and allow docs more time to evaluate patients.
 
who can blame those new OD graduates who work for commercial practices now? there are so many ODs who have over 200,000 dollars in debt. Commericial practices allow them the easy way out to pay off those hefty debts and earn a decent living. They would care less for the face of our profession because a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do (ladies also apply :) ) to make a living.

I wouldn't be surprised if I have to go into commericial when I graduate in 4 years because, like others, I have debts of my own. :(


While I understand your concern about your ability to repay your debt obligations upon graduation, I would strongly urge you to get into a private/group practice setting. Not only will you have greater autonomy, you will doing your part to break the cycle. There are opportunities if you look hard enough...start now if you can.

Again, at the root of this problem is optometry schools turning out too many new graduates each year(with admission criteria that are too low) and strapping them with a large debt load, thus, leaving them no choice but to sell out to a doc in the box to make a living. Again, this makes me sick.

Posner
 
What's the difference between an Optometrist and Opthalmologist.
 
While I understand your concern about your ability to repay your debt obligations upon graduation, I would strongly urge you to get into a private/group practice setting. Not only will you have greater autonomy, you will doing your part to break the cycle. There are opportunities if you look hard enough...start now if you can.

Again, at the root of this problem is optometry schools turning out too many new graduates each year(with admission criteria that are too low) and strapping them with a large debt load, thus, leaving them no choice but to sell out to a doc in the box to make a living. Again, this makes me sick.

Posner

While it certainly is fun to bash bash bash away at commercial optometry, I am not prepared to lay optometry's problems at the feet of commercial practice.

In fact, I lay it squarely at the feet of private practice. For many many years, it was PRIVATE practices that were responsible for the whole "free eye exam if you get your glasses from me" situation. In fact, it is exactly this that gave BIRTH to commercial optometry. Commercial interests looked at the massive profit margin on ophthalmic materials and said "YES! We are getting in on this deal." If only those private practitioners of yesteryear had the foresight to charge heavily for their exams and mark up their materials minimally, commercial optometry would have never existed.

But that horse has long since left the barn. There is no point in crying over it because there is no going back. However, what has private practice done in the last 20-30 years to differentiate itself from the commercial locations. I would submit, very very little.

I have said this multiple times: Most private optometric practices are essentially eyeglass stores with exam lanes in the back. And most of them are located in strip mall locations in between the pizzeria and the nail salon. A collegue of mine from Los Angeles told me that he looked at a "private practice" that was located next to a store that sells adult novelties and clothing.

Obviously thats an extreme example, but can anyone out there honestly say that a Lenscrafters in an upscale mall projects a less positive image of optometry than a private practice next to a chinese take out place? Lets be serious now.

I worked in plenty of private offices and plenty of commercial places during my tenure in optometry. I saw just as many dusty BIOs in private offices as I did in commercial. I saw just as many uveitis patients referred out in private offices as I did in commercial. I saw just as much 7 and 4 and out the door in private offices than I did in commercial. (in fact, probably more so in private on that last one) I saw way more "doctors only" lenses in private offices.

People don't view optometry negatively because of Lenscrafters. They view optometry negatively because the overwhelming majority of ODs offices that they have been to have essentially been eyeglass stores. Can you blame them?

While there are a few scattered practices here and there that are starting to emphasize the service over materials paradigm, it is my opinion that that is not happening nearly as often, and certainly not nearly fast enough to stop the commercial take over of optometry. And it is because of this trend that I still believe optometry is destined to end up like pharmacy.
 
A collegue of mine from Los Angeles told me that he looked at a "private practice" that was located next to a store that sells adult novelties and clothing.

Whoa... now THAT is one stop shopping! :eek: ;) :laugh:

Great post KHE. It is nice to hear someone acknowledge that corporate optometry wouldn't exist if those big corporations didn't see the value in the huge mark up on materials. The blame game and name calling is fun (for some of you) but doesn't really do anything to address the problem. What can each of us do to help decrease the number of optometrists?
 
Whoa... now THAT is one stop shopping! :eek: ;) :laugh:

Great post KHE. It is nice to hear someone acknowledge that corporate optometry wouldn't exist if those big corporations didn't see the value in the huge mark up on materials. The blame game and name calling is fun (for some of you) but doesn't really do anything to address the problem. What can each of us do to help decrease the number of optometrists?

As students, I do not think that there is much that you can do. The demographic that should have the most clout in this area is graduates who are less than 5 years out. There was a survey recently in one of the optometric rags that pointed out that less than 25% of graduates were working in a satisfying environment 5 years out of school. No one expects to achieve their dream job right out school, but that stat essentially says that 75% of graduates are still unhappy with their situation 5 years out. Shouldn't that say something?

Unfortunately, the schools operate in a theoretical realm. In THEORY, if every soul got a comprehensive optometric examination each and every year, then MAYBE you could argue an undersupply of ODs.

For the 100th time, for a routine eye exam with an opthalmologist, you will have a 4-6 week wait in virtually every corner of the country. However with an OD, you can get an appointment within two days with 95% of them and with the majority of them, you can get a same day or even a walk in appointment. Don't believe me? Pull the yellow pages off of the shelf and phone around a few ODs (commercial AND private) and ask when you can get in for an exam. While there might be the occasional practice that is doing well, I would bet $50 that you can get in with a bunch of them today, or tomorrow.

If that doesn't spell out oversupply, then I can not think of anything that will. It can't get much more basic than that.
 
Hey, those pharmacy folks pulling in some nice jack these days. Their bonuses in the Air Force are far superior to optometrists.

And it is because of this trend that I still believe optometry is destined to end up like pharmacy.
 
Hey, those pharmacy folks pulling in some nice jack these days. Their bonuses in the Air Force are far superior to optometrists.


I never claimed that optometry would not be lucrative if it ended up like pharmacy.

WHat I mean when I say that optometry will end up like pharmacy is that 95% of optometrists will end up working retail hours in retail locations for large corporations.

There's nothing wrong with that... but the independent optometrist is destined to become about as common as the independent pharmacy, IMHO.
 
Hey, those pharmacy folks pulling in some nice jack these days. Their bonuses in the Air Force are far superior to optometrists.

If you think $100K-$115K is some nice jack, you obviously havent tried to raise a family on it on the west coast. I couldnt imagine having to support my family on that kind of income; no thanks.

Posner
 
If you think $100K-$115K is some nice jack, you obviously havent tried to raise a family on it on the west coast. I couldnt imagine having to support my family on that kind of income; no thanks.

Posner

Not really related to optometry, but does this cost of living hold true for oregon and washington too?
 
I agree with posner and i live in the east coast. did u guys read the wall street journal today. i bankers start at 120 to 150 first year out of school. i never realized how much money finance people make.
 
I agree with posner and i live in the east coast. did u guys read the wall street journal today. i bankers start at 120 to 150 first year out of school. i never realized how much money finance people make.

I'd cross-reference that salary info with some real-live bankers. I doubt it's that high. Please see salary.com. Besides, for those of you who went into optometry thinking you're gonna get rich?? you are wrong...and for those who plan to pursue optometry in the future thinking you're gonna be rich being an optometrist? better think twice.

Optometrists earn moderately high income compared to most of other professions. Having a successful practice sometimes allows you live lavishly...but don't expect the same lifestyle by having just an average practice. Most optometrists I've met are content with what they do and what they earn. It's just matter of personal expectations.

Posner, 100k+ income would give you a pretty comfortable living in the east coast. You should consider moving!

One more thing, people who love optometry who also love the benjamins can think about using the money earn from optometry and put it in some effective investments. Now that'd bring home the real dough. :)
 
If you think $100K-$115K is some nice jack, you obviously havent tried to raise a family on it on the west coast. I couldnt imagine having to support my family on that kind of income; no thanks.

Posner

wow! my mom raised me and my bro on 40k a year comfortably (subjective i know) in a LA suburb.
 
I'd cross-reference that salary info with some real-live bankers. I doubt it's that high. Please see salary.com. Besides, for those of you who went into optometry thinking you're gonna get rich?? you are wrong...and for those who plan to pursue optometry in the future thinking you're gonna be rich being an optometrist? better think twice.

Optometrists earn moderately high income compared to most of other professions. Having a successful practice sometimes allows you live lavishly...but don't expect the same lifestyle by having just an average practice. Most optometrists I've met are content with what they do and what they earn. It's just matter of personal expectations.

Posner, 100k+ income would give you a pretty comfortable living in the east coast. You should consider moving!

One more thing, people who love optometry who also love the benjamins can think about using the money earn from optometry and put it in some effective investments. Now that'd bring home the real dough. :)

My sentiments exactly... DO NOT BE AVERAGE. I would never consider moving to the east coast. My point was that I feel I live an extremely comfortable living here on the west coast...a living that would not be possible on $110K a year. It is all personal preference I suppose. It has been mentioned before, that optometry is a great way to earn a substantial enough income to put that money to work in vehicles that can produce significant wealth.

Like it or not, $100K per year doesnt buy what it used to. YOu make just enough dough to attract the Buzzards at the IRS and what is left over can be a real disappointment. YOu wont starve on $100K but I would argue that $150K is the point at which you start to have some disposable income(you are not loaded however) and that $250K is where you really have the chance to take advantage of some of the more significant investment opportunites not available to the masses.

Posner
 
Seriously,
Is the cost of living that high on the west coast? I guess when you get used to paying 5 bucks for a cup of coffee at those trendy cafes you do need to make alot of money. I guess I'll keep buying my 79 cent cup of coffee at McDonald's and my mansion in the foothills of the smokies vs. paying $5 for a cup of coffee and $800,000 for a 1000 sq ft run down flat.

If you think $100K-$115K is some nice jack, you obviously havent tried to raise a family on it on the west coast. I couldnt imagine having to support my family on that kind of income; no thanks.

Posner
 
Posner,
What is your mode of practice? Private vs. corporate? Is the need for OD's that great on the West Coast? If so, you are in a nice situation. I would think for an OD to make 250K you are going to be sticking alot of punctal plugs in healthy eyes, doing alot of VF's on healthy eyeballs, fundus photos of healthy retinas year in and year out, and on and on and on. Or, quite possibly, I am simply out of touch with reality.

My sentiments exactly... DO NOT BE AVERAGE. I would never consider moving to the east coast. My point was that I feel I live an extremely comfortable living here on the west coast...a living that would not be possible on $110K a year. It is all personal preference I suppose. It has been mentioned before, that optometry is a great way to earn a substantial enough income to put that money to work in vehicles that can produce significant wealth.

Like it or not, $100K per year doesnt buy what it used to. YOu make just enough dough to attract the Buzzards at the IRS and what is left over can be a real disappointment. YOu wont starve on $100K but I would argue that $150K is the point at which you start to have some disposable income(you are not loaded however) and that $250K is where you really have the chance to take advantage of some of the more significant investment opportunites not available to the masses.

Posner
 
My sentiments exactly... DO NOT BE AVERAGE. I would never consider moving to the east coast. My point was that I feel I live an extremely comfortable living here on the west coast...a living that would not be possible on $110K a year. It is all personal preference I suppose. It has been mentioned before, that optometry is a great way to earn a substantial enough income to put that money to work in vehicles that can produce significant wealth.

Like it or not, $100K per year doesnt buy what it used to. YOu make just enough dough to attract the Buzzards at the IRS and what is left over can be a real disappointment. YOu wont starve on $100K but I would argue that $150K is the point at which you start to have some disposable income(you are not loaded however) and that $250K is where you really have the chance to take advantage of some of the more significant investment opportunites not available to the masses.

Posner

I dont see how an optometrist could make 250k a year without doing some illegal surgical procedures in some dark corners. Based on what you're saying, obviously you have a very successful practice. But success is only a relative term. Some might consider making 120k a year successful. And not everyone here needs or wants to live lavishly.
 
And not everyone here needs or wants to live lavishly.

but the point is that for the level of education, ODs SHOULD HAVE A HIGHER AVERAGE INCOME. and why has the mean income quickly fallen behind inflation?
 
but the point is that for the level of education, ODs SHOULD HAVE A HIGHER AVERAGE INCOME. and why has the mean income quickly fallen behind inflation?

too many ODs?
 
i think i read somewhere 30? is this true?
 
I dont see how an optometrist could make 250k a year without doing some illegal surgical procedures in some dark corners. Based on what you're saying, obviously you have a very successful practice. But success is only a relative term. Some might consider making 120k a year successful. And not everyone here needs or wants to live lavishly.

Like many of your colleagues, you are short sighted in terms of what optometry is and what you can and should do to provide excellent patient care. I NEVER perform any procedure that is not fully justified....not only is it unethical, but you have to remember that patients are smarter than many doctors think. You can only screw them so many times until they no longer come back.

I admit, I may not be the typical optometrist in terms of my practice. I have a partner and we have two associates that work for us in our two offices. We do have ophthalmolgy in the office 1.5 days a week in our bigger office. I see between 23 and 32 patients a day. Our practice generates about $2.1 million per year; all without illegal surgery performed in dark corners.

Do the math.... see only 15 patients per day and ssuming total revenue per patient of $200(including dispensary income) and you have $3000 per day. Take 30% and you have $900 per day; some days will be better and some will be worse. Figure in your annual work schedule and you have a decent income. The two main reasons many/most ODs dont make this kind of money is that there are too many ODs and most of them are shallow thinking ego challenged wimps afraid to provide complete primary eyecare...look no further than your own post talking about illegal procedures in dark corners...get a clue.

Posner
 
Posner,
What is your mode of practice? Private vs. corporate? Is the need for OD's that great on the West Coast? If so, you are in a nice situation. I would think for an OD to make 250K you are going to be sticking alot of punctal plugs in healthy eyes, doing alot of VF's on healthy eyeballs, fundus photos of healthy retinas year in and year out, and on and on and on. Or, quite possibly, I am simply out of touch with reality.

YOu are correct.. you are out of touch with reality. The need for ODs is not tremendous on the west coast(in fact there is a marked over supply). I do have a nice situation..but you know what? I worked my ass off to make it that way. It wasnt easy to do, but it wasnt that difficult either. I resent the implication that I provide services that are unnecessary, it is patently false.
 
Seriously,
Is the cost of living that high on the west coast? I guess when you get used to paying 5 bucks for a cup of coffee at those trendy cafes you do need to make alot of money. I guess I'll keep buying my 79 cent cup of coffee at McDonald's and my mansion in the foothills of the smokies vs. paying $5 for a cup of coffee and $800,000 for a 1000 sq ft run down flat.


The cost of living is rather high on the west coast (CAlifornia especially). AS long as you are happy where you live good for you. I However, prefer my 6 acre ocean view estate instead of banjo playing toothless hillbillies with run down cars in front of their double wides.... It is personal preference.

By the way, If Dr Gregory is reading this and ever decides to make it out west, I would love to take you in as a partner. We will be looking to do just that in the next 2.5-3 years.

Posner
 
The cost of living is rather high on the west coast (CAlifornia especially). AS long as you are happy where you live good for you. I However, prefer my 6 acre ocean view estate instead of banjo playing toothless hillbillies with run down cars in front of their double wides.... It is personal preference.

By the way, If Dr Gregory is reading this and ever decides to make it out west, I would love to take you in as a partner. We will be looking to do just that in the next 2.5-3 years.

Posner

The two snobs WILL be getting married after all!:love: How romantic. But I don't think same sex marriges are legal in Cali just yet, wasn't even in the ballots. Just take a quick trip to MA in your personal jet and tie the knot there. :laugh:

I believe it is people like you and your behavior that are screwing up optometry.
 
The two snobs WILL be getting married after all!:love: How romantic. But I don't think same sex marriges are legal in Cali just yet, wasn't even in the ballots. Just take a quick trip to MA in your personal jet and tie the knot there. :laugh:

Hilarious:sleep: . I find it amusing that anyone that has enjoyed any success in optometry is a snob. All of the other ODs I know that have enjoyed success(and there are many) have the same thing to say about the rest of the belly aching masses; why is it so difficult for so many to earn a good living in optometry? Perhaps you or others that may care to improve their productivity could learn something from those that have built successful practices. If you have read other posts of mine you will see that I made sure to learn everything I possibly could from the senior partner in our practice before I bought in. I found a successful system, learned it, and then bought it; I certainly didnt do it all myself from the ground up.

Go ahead Opii be content to join the rest of the pen protector wearing dolts that cant figure out how to repay their school loans in optometry; keep working at dragging the profession down to a $15/hr job at the local Walmart.

Posner
 
You sure have alot of time to be on the forums for such a busy doc... or do you have your "little people" do all the work for you? :laugh:
 
You sure have alot of time to be on the forums for such a busy doc... or do you have your "little people" do all the work for you? :laugh:

these kind of comments are uncalled for. Please stop the flame war ! :)

posner and drgregory have some valid points about the profession.

The doc I used to work with in private practice had a 1.5 million dollar practice. It IS possible if you're good with patients and good with business.

And, it's definitely true that 100k a year doesn't go as far in CA.. but, you're by NO MEANS destitute. If you want a higher standard of living, you have to decide if the CA lifestyle is worth it. For my husband and myself .. it wasn't. But, it's definitely a personal choice. The house I could buy right out of school in Tampa would cost more than THREE TIMES that in CA.. and I"d still be renting.
 
.... banjo playing toothless hillbillies with run down cars in front of their double wides....

I call THAT flaming CPW. I don't see you scolding Posner for THAT remark. Selective Vision, wouldn't you say???
 
keep working at dragging the profession down to a $15/hr job at the local Walmart.

Posner


im too tired to join this battle, but this concept is what ive been trying to get corporate ODs and even some private ODs to understand for some time now. listen one more time:

IF YOU CANNOT BRING YOURSELF TO GET OUT OF CORPORATE, AT THE VERY LEAST SET YOUR FEES APPROPRIATELY. YES, YOU CAN DO THIS AND THEY CANNOT BE SET FOR YOU (SEE FEE-SPLITTING). IF YOU HAVE NOT RAISED YOUR FEES YET - YOU ARE CONSCIOUSLY CHOPPING OFF OUR PROFESSION AT THE KNEES.
 
I call THAT flaming CPW. I don't see you scolding Posner for THAT remark. Selective Vision, wouldn't you say???

I meant both of you. You were BOTH involved. Sorry I didn't quote both of you. I figured by flaming you would infer it went both ways. (since it almost always does)
 
IF YOU CANNOT BRING YOURSELF TO GET OUT OF CORPORATE, AT THE VERY LEAST SET YOUR FEES APPROPRIATELY. YES, YOU CAN DO THIS AND THEY CANNOT BE SET FOR YOU (SEE FEE-SPLITTING). IF YOU HAVE NOT RAISED YOUR FEES YET - YOU ARE CONSCIOUSLY CHOPPING OFF OUR PROFESSION AT THE KNEES.

we raised our fees $6 last month. No one's complained yet. ;)
 
Thank you, CPW. Now that we have both been scolded equally I can go about my buisiness content.:D
 
Toothless hillbilly was meant to be a term of endearment....

AS far as fee raising is concerned, it is my belief that this must be done on a regular basis(preferably yearly, but at least every two years). It is amazing what an extra $10-$20 per patient can do for your bottom line. Believe it or not, most patients dont seem to complain or notice the fee increase. Dont just look at your exam fee either. Every year I pull up the regional Medicare clearing house fee schedule and review the changes to fees for all services and procedures. You should AT LEAST have your fees set in line with these numbers(dont decrease your fees if these numbers go down). Also, in doing this each year, I am reminded of procedure codes that I should use more often but either forget or get too lazy to use; You dont want to leave too much money on the table if you can help it. You might also benefit from getting a copy of the fee schedule of your local friendly OMD(I realize this may not be possible) and see what they charge. You would be more than surprised to see what these folks are charging for the same routine services you are providing.

Posner
 
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