Toledo MSBS 2021-2022

[SadNonTrad]

Hello, everyone. I am wondering if my chances will be hindered by a misdemeanor I received while I was in undergraduate. I had the charge deferred and it was a class C but, I understand I should have had this expunged prior to applying. Do you guys know anybody that has been through this situation? I discussed it within my application but, I'm not sure how this will play out for me. Thanks everyone!

This is something that I would email Dr. Vazquez about. He is the most honest and straightforward source of information regarding the MSBS program.

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[za2021]

Best of luck! Please feel free to reach out with any other questions you might have over the next few months.

Thank you so much! I definitely will!

 

[Noodlesxcape]

I emailed Dr. Vazquez with a low 500s score and he told me that the program performance will outweigh the risk of doing worse on the MCAT. High Risk, Low reward.

Did Dr. Vazquez give you a cut off point for mcat score on whether on not someone would need to retake the exam? Do you mind if I ask what your score was for the mcat?

 

[za2021]

Ok maybe I am going crazy or some of my posts have different or wired words being used. Like I don't remember using bless you in my last reply but idk maybe I was sleep typing?

I read my reply above and did NOT remember using bless you either!!

 

[almondjoy7]

Is it feasible to work while in this program?

 

[Sophil15]

Is it feasible to work while in this program?

Dr. Vasquez and Dr. Easterly (the ones in charge of the program) will STRONGLY recommend that you do not work while in the MSBS program. Others have done it in the past, but it's a demanding program that asks for a decent chunk of your time, so take that as you will

 

[Noodlesxcape]

For those who have been accepted, have you received any email from either your personal or rocket email about registering for classes? Did you also receive a matriculation packet or some sort mail or emailed to you?

 

[Chillill50]

For those who have been accepted, have you received any email from either your personal or rocket email about registering for classes? Did you also receive a matriculation packet or some sort mail or emailed to you?

I have not, more of just a generic email with resources for graduate students. You can go access the myUT portal though and there's some information there.

 

[SadNonTrad]

Does anybody know a typical timeframe on when we would hear back? I was complete 4/7.

I heard back a few weeks later. It can vary, but they do their best to do it as soon as they can.

 

[SadNonTrad]

Accepted yesterday! Very excited!

Pm me

 

[kcool23]

I was accepted last Thursday! Just to be sure, where do I send my letter of intent email to?

 

[Sophil15]

I was accepted last Thursday! Just to be sure, where do I send my letter of intent email to?

There should be an email associated with your acceptance but if there isn't just send it to Dr. Easterly, if she's not the right one to send it to she'll tell you who is.

 

[Vanilla96]

@Miracle_Max

 

[deleted978967]

@Miracle_Max

what up?

 

[COLBI9999]

Does anyone know the difference between institution acceptance and applicant acceptance? On my portal, it says decision made but says applicant acceptance, but I am not sure if that is different from institution acceptance.

 

[sbeezie]

Is anyone currently looking for housing around the University?

 

[Captain holt 99]

Is anyone currently looking for housing around the University?

Me

 

[FutureDocx_x]

Is anyone still waiting on a response from them. I have just recently applied, hoping it was not too late.

 

[achuallen]

Is there a groupme or something like that for this program?

 

[COLBI9999]

If anyone has questions, I’m a current student and am happy to answer whatever I can.

- How is the for this past year into UTCCOM?
- How many students in total are in the program and. how many students eventually enter medical school in one/two years after the program ends?
- Did you apply to other SMPs, and if so, what made you decide upon Toledo?
- How are the faculty in terms of helping your application and teaching the classes?
- How does the interview process work? All the MSBS students interview in March and just wait to hear back?
- Do students in the program typically apply to UTCOM only, or other medical schools as well?

Thank you so much for your help, really appreciate it.

 

[sta2014_sa]

Hey everyone,

Any update on the statistics for this year's class? Also any update on if there will be a webinar/info session for accepted students and also when the program will begin? I have not seen much about this over the past few months.

 

[sta2014_sa]

Is there a groupme or something like that for this program?

That would be a good idea. Just as a way to exchange info and post any updates as I have no idea yet when the program will begin or any other logistics posted yet (at least that I know of).

 

[za2021]

Does anyone know estimated response time once app is marked as complete?

 

[Medschool2744]

Hi guys, I ended up making a group me for students that were accepted into the program. So we are able to let each other know about any updates. I am attaching the link below:
GroupMe

 

[dadnicetomeetyouhungry]

- How is the for this past year into UTCCOM?
- How many students in total are in the program and. how many students eventually enter medical school in one/two years after the program ends?
- Did you apply to other SMPs, and if so, what made you decide upon Toledo?
- How are the faculty in terms of helping your application and teaching the classes?
- How does the interview process work? All the MSBS students interview in March and just wait to hear back?
- Do students in the program typically apply to UTCOM only, or other medical schools as well?

Thank you so much for your help, really appreciate it.

We have like 51 students in the program I think. So far no one I know has heard back yet. We're wondering if that's just because of COVID and because stuff is more backed up in general this year. Waiting game is tough.
I think this program does a lot of things really well. The faculty are awesome. There are a lot of former MSBS students who are now M1s who are ridiculously helpful and often lead review sessions that were life saving. For me, it was this friendly environment, plus the fact that we aren't graded directly against the med students, plus the fact that I could do research. Having my name on a couple pubs is a big win and I've gained a lot of skills that I think are good to have heading into med school (hopefully).
Everyone I talked to interviewed in March and April and now yeah just waiting around. I don't know everyone in the program but know enough that I think we would've heard something if anyone else got in by now, who knows though. Personally I interviewed more on the earlier side and still haven't heard back so idk.
Some students apply to other programs during the year, and some have success. But it's not like they're getting into Harvard, usually it's DO schools or low-tier MD schools. Conventional wisdom and what I've heard from adcoms is that if you want to apply to other schools outside of the one affiliated with the SMP, they'll want to see you aced the whole year of the SMP rather than just some of it. But YMMV and it depends on if you were a fringe applicant in the first place or if this program is basically rescuing your whole GPA.

 

[sbeezie]

We have like 51 students in the program I think. So far no one I know has heard back yet. We're wondering if that's just because of COVID and because stuff is more backed up in general this year. Waiting game is tough.
I think this program does a lot of things really well. The faculty are awesome. There are a lot of former MSBS students who are now M1s who are ridiculously helpful and often lead review sessions that were life saving. For me, it was this friendly environment, plus the fact that we aren't graded directly against the med students, plus the fact that I could do research. Having my name on a couple pubs is a big win and I've gained a lot of skills that I think are good to have heading into med school (hopefully).
Everyone I talked to interviewed in March and April and now yeah just waiting around. I don't know everyone in the program but know enough that I think we would've heard something if anyone else got in by now, who knows though. Personally I interviewed more on the earlier side and still haven't heard back so idk.
Some students apply to other programs during the year, and some have success. But it's not like they're getting into Harvard, usually it's DO schools or low-tier MD schools. Conventional wisdom and what I've heard from adcoms is that if you want to apply to other schools outside of the one affiliated with the SMP, they'll want to see you aced the whole year of the SMP rather than just some of it. But YMMV and it depends on if you were a fringe applicant in the first place or if this program is basically rescuing your whole GPA.

Hello, considering that it is June 9th, has your class heard anything back yet?

 

[Futuredoctor2114]

Hello, considering that it is June 9th, has your class heard anything back yet?

So far around 6 of us have heard back! Toledo is very late this year but I think there will be a lot more news for everyone else in the next couple of weeks!

 

[PreMedPlayer17]

Numbers for this past years class isnt looking too good for acceptance numbers (from what we originally expected). Polls were asked in the group me. Roughly around 20 accepted, 28 waitlisted. As of now from the waitlist: 2 got off and got accepted, 17 still waiting to hear if they got a spot, and 9 got off the waitlist but were rejected. UT gave out all acceptances already, waitlisted students are just waiting to hear back. These are just estimated numbers as not everyone responds to the polls

 

[careforthoselessfortunate]

Numbers for this past years class isnt looking too good for acceptance numbers (from what we originally expected). Polls were asked in the group me. Roughly around 20 accepted, 28 waitlisted. As of now from the waitlist: 2 got off and got accepted, 17 still waiting to hear if they got a spot, and 9 got off the waitlist but were rejected. UT gave out all acceptances already, waitlisted students are just waiting to hear back. These are just estimated numbers as not everyone responds to the polls

Honestly, I would reconsider the MSBS program. They should be screening applicants for this program carefully and accepting at least 80 percent into THEIR medical school class for the next year. Program is expensive. This year's MSBS class acceptance rate will be around 40 percent! Reconsider

 

[careforthoselessfortunate]

Numbers for this past years class isnt looking too good for acceptance numbers (from what we originally expected). Polls were asked in the group me. Roughly around 20 accepted, 28 waitlisted. As of now from the waitlist: 2 got off and got accepted, 17 still waiting to hear if they got a spot, and 9 got off the waitlist but were rejected. UT gave out all acceptances already, waitlisted students are just waiting to hear back. These are just estimated numbers as not everyone responds to the polls

~ 45% of this year's MSBS program at Toledo were accepted into Toledo's medical school. There really is not a process to accept/reject students into this program. Unless they are full, they will accept. These students are led to believe UTMC is holding enough spots for ALL of the MSBS-MS students . . . this is incorrect! Unfortunately, students are also advised NOT to retake the MCAT if, their store is 497-500 which is below UTMC's average MCAT. Sadly, these students work diligently to obtain excellent grades in the UT MSBS-MS program because they are guaranteed an interview with UTMC and led to believe they have an 80-90% chance of being accepted. Heads up folks . . . save yourself ~ $30K, take a gap year, and get your MCAT up if that's the problem. This program is fast-paced and extremely difficult to get high grades. My recommendation is to skip this post-grad program if your undergraduate GPA is high 3.75+ and your MCAT is lacking, especially if your research and volunteering are solid. Advisors for this program need to meet individually two-three times during the year with each MSBS-MS participant to discuss each student's chances of being accepted into UTMC med school. Tell me . . . what can you do with an MSBS-MS degree if you do NOT get into medical school?

 

[medlove522]

For background I will be graduating with this years MSBS class this upcoming August. I am also one of the many who was not offered a seat in this years UTCOMLS class. Truth be told this is actually a favorable program albeit all the deceit that you must be able to navigate through first. I will be using this post to breakdown the possibilities of you wide eyed does ever so hopeful getting in.

1. MCAT - 504-510 : Program GPA 4.0 - You'll get accepted
.................................Program GPA < 3.7 - 70% chance of acceptance - MCAT may need to be 507+
2. MCAT - 510+ : Program GPA 3.5 - 4.0 - 80% You'll get accepted
3. MCAT - 504-510 : Program GPA >3.7 - 50% Your'e not getting accepted
....MCAT - 504-507..................................- 80% chance not getting accepted

The possibilities of you getting in are high but only if you excel in the program and have a high MCAT. Therefore, I highly recommend you get a 504+ MCAT before doing this program, especially if you were an average student in undergrad and your ability to get 3.8 or higher in this program is questionable.

I would have to disagree with this. I got a 4.0 in the program and have a 510 MCAT, and I am not the only student with these stats (or very similar stats) to have not gotten accepted. I also had a solid number of extracurriculars, both from undergrad and while doing the program, as did other students who were also rejected. In the MSBS class of 2019-20, there were multiple students who had below a 503 MCAT and received a few C's in the program, and they were accepted. There doesn't seem to be any pattern or formula on which students were accepted/rejected, as the students that were accepted had varying GPAs and MCATs. The acceptance rate for last year's class was ~80% and ours seemed to drop to ~40%. During orientation and throughout the year, we were told that UTCOM has enough space to accept our entire class if we perform well and that UTCOM would prefer to admit MSBS students because historically MSBS students perform very well in the medical school. We were told that we were going to be interviewed after all regular candidates had been interviewed and our applications would to be reviewed completely separately from regular candidates. However, I don't believe that any of that was done this year or that MSBS students had any sort of advantage, as they only admitted ~22 students from our class of ~53 students. GV (the program director) told one of the students that the admissions committee doesn't give him any feedback and he seems "banned" from the admissions process, yet he is the one that advises the MSBS students on whether to retake the MCAT and what we should do during the year. Additionally, this program is more expensive than every other graduate program at UT ($31K for in state tuition, $70K for OOS). While this was a pretty good program in the past (which is why I decided to attend), I no longer think this is the case. I don't think I would be able to recommend this program to any future students and wanted to post this so future students don't have any false hope about this program.

 

[purpletupperware]

Hi all, class of 2021 MSBS student here who was recently rejected. I got above a nearly perfect GPA in the program and am a well rounded candidate. I want to offer my objective experience with this program with you all so that you can make an informed decision regarding your decision to attend this program. Regardless of whether or not my MSBS classmates from this year got in, I am sure they would be able to agree with a lot of my grievances with the MSBS program that I will outline. Sorry, it’ll be a little long & in multiple parts, but like I said I just want to make sure you are making a fully informed decision here:


1. Tuition costs: This program is about twice the cost of normal in state graduate tuition and more than twice the cost of normal out of state graduate tuition. If you are in-state, this program has the same tuition as the medical school and if you’re out of state, this program is even more expensive than the medical school tuition. Considering that this program is pretty much identical to the curriculum of the first year of the UTCOM medical program, complete with human anatomy lab (which most SMP programs do NOT have, so this is a main selling point for the program!) and classes taught by medical school professors I could see how it is fair that its tuition is on par with that of the medical school. Plus, the program boasts that its students are guaranteed an interview if they get at least a 3.0 gpa in the program and we are consistently told that the MSBS students are reviewed separately from regular applicants, spots in the MD class are reserved for us, and that admissions prefers to take the MSBS students as we are quite literally prepped for UTCOM and are more likely to perform well in the M1 classes as we have already taken them and, for many students who have been admitted from this program, aced them! Add in the cost of living and other life expenses, lets say you take out an additional $10-30k in student loans to support yourself, so let’s factor that in. We’re talking ~50k in state and $90k OOS for this program. Now with all of this in mind, put yourself in our shoes: You sign a lease in Toledo, expecting for classes, research lab, and at the very least for your anatomy lab to be in person. You are told during your first day of orientation that all classes will be online for the foreseeable future. Hey, COVID is raging, so that’s understandable- at least you have in person anatomy lab, so that’s gonna make it all worth it! You didn’t sign a lease for nothing! When it comes time for anatomy to start, not only do you learn that the class has been shortened from being a 7/8 week course to a 5 week course, but also you are not going to be able to have in person human anatomy lab because of COVID restrictions! So not only are you going to have to learn the ENTIRE human body in 5 weeks, you are going to have to do it without any lab to aid your learning (if you have taken anatomy, you know how important this is)! Oh AND all of the other programs that have in person human anatomy lab as a part of their program- MD, PA, etc.- go on with having it! It’s literally just MSBS that was, for whatever reason, nixed from having this opportunity. All we were offered were 3 in person anatomy dissections led by med students who felt bad for us (bless them) which were not a part of our curriculum whatsoever, just supplemental and were offered to us on a first come first served basis via a google sheets signup link. Also 2-3 sessions were offered for us to go watch our professor go over an already dissected cadaver in person, but there were limits on how many people could come to each of these sessions. At no point were we offered a more in depth explanation as to why we did not get anatomy lab than it being because of “COVID restrictions,” even though that was clearly false since MD and PA students were still having lab. So essentially, unless your research lab required you to come in person, there was no reason for us to sign a lease. Big deal for people who moved to Toledo from out of state or for people from Ohio/Mich who could have just commuted as needed and saved a lot of money. Plus now it’s really not making sense why this tuition is so high, but hey, this relationship with admissions should help, right? More on that later.

 

[purpletupperware]

2. Disorganization/Lack of communication/Unequal standards: It is the full-time job of at least 2 people to manage the MSBS program. Keep that in mind. It was very well impressed upon us that we were all expected to be professional & respectful at all times, respond to emails from the directors of the program ASAP, to always be on time, to communicate clearly, and to always be prepared for assignments & exams well in advance. We got our syllabus in mid/late October for anatomy and at this point we had been told everything will be remote. With this in mind, people also need to be making plans to travel home and for the holidays given the time of the year. Remember those 2-3 sessions where our anatomy professor would review an already dissected cadaver with us in person? At the beginning of anatomy, we were told that these sessions might be mandatory. Might. And one of these sessions was the day before thanksgiving, a holiday where many people travel and many people are around loved ones (many of whom are old or immunocompromised). Oh yeah and an increasingly deadly pandemic was happening. We were only told about a week before thanksgiving that the sessions actually weren’t mandatory, so until about one week before thanksgiving we all didn’t know if we would be obligated to come in person for that session. I know it’s a small thing, but if you’re OOS or in general like to plan your life or plan to quarantine before seeing a loved one for the holidays, it’s important, and many people could not get a response from our program director regarding this for weeks on end. We also were not told that the first day of classes would be for the second semester would be January 19th until January 15th. A nice 4 day notice! Our organ path class spanned the entire second semester with 5 blocks. We did not get that block 5 schedule until late March at earliest, so we did not know that our classes ended at the end of April until like 3-4 weeks beforehand. It really is not too much for us to expect to have these dates very far in advance. Typically, schools release their school year calendars (including semester start/end dates) several YEARS in advance. That is the standard for pretty much all schools and even graduate programs. We did not get these dates until weeks and sometimes days beforehand which made our lives very hard to plan, and that was especially upsetting given the pandemic we were all trying to survive through. And honestly, I don’t think that there is anything that can excuse this (even the pandemic); that’s just plain old disorganization and lack of consideration. Also, remember when we were told we would not have in person anatomy lab? Many people were upset about that and sent emails detailing their concern to the program director, and from the responses that I saw and heard, his responses were apathetic and honestly kind of rude. He actually seemed angry that people were contacting him about this. And this wasn’t a bunch of spoiled brats complaining that they didn’t get what they want, these were genuinely concerned adult graduate students professionally expressing their concern and desire to learn from the amazing opportunity of having a human anatomy lab and wanting more of an explanation or to at least be offered some adequate alternatives. So, considering how much we were told to be professional and punctual, it is very upsetting that we were not given that same professionalism and punctuality in return a lot of the time. And that double standard was, honestly, upsetting to a group of graduate students who were working their asses off.

 

[purpletupperware]

3. Getting those hopes up!: As encouraged by prior students and MSBS faculty, most students meet with the program director of MSBS early on and throughout the program. He tells you what you need to do in the coming year to help increase your chances of getting in- if you need to retake your MCAT based on your score and chances, retake any classes, boost your activities, etc. In my case and in the case of many others, he told us our apps & stats looked great, and all we needed to do was to do well in MSBS. Mind you, he has your transcripts & MCAT score as a part of the admissions process for this program, so ultimately if your stats were that bad that you didn’t have a chance at getting in, they shouldn’t have accepted you in the first place. You are told throughout the year by most everyone that if you did not have the potential to get into UTCOM, you would not have gotten in to MSBS and that UTCOM prefers to take us MSBSers anyways. I knew plenty of people from years past who got <500 MCATs and got B’s and C’s in this program (there were a few people from last year’s class even) and got in just fine. We were always told that if people did not get in from MSBS, it was for an obvious reason- didn’t do well in the program, cheating, overall weirdo, etc. So imagine you do perfectly in the program (which entails you working your behind off & going into lots of debt in the process), you participate a lot, you are dedicated to your research, you continue to work & volunteer, you take the director and everyone else’s advice, and guess what? You get rejected! It’s only now that people start telling you that yes, many people in the past have done perfectly and have not gotten in, no promises were made to you in this program (at least not in writing!), and you aren’t a perfect applicant anyways (which no one is if they’re coming into any SMP program) so better luck next time! Huh? Where was that transparency throughout this whole past year? I am a realistic person in every area of my life, I promise you I do not live in a fantasy land. I know that myself and many of my classmates were awesome candidates, and we were told that by the program director and former MSBS students many a time. So why am I just now being treated like it was all in my head when in reality, getting into UTCOM was an easy feat for many prior MSBS students whose stats were significantly lower than ours?

 

[purpletupperware]

4. MSBS students having a “leg up:” I described earlier that we are told how MSBS students have a leg up with admissions- separate reviews, reserving spots, we were even told that MSBS students would not be interviewed until all interviews of regular candidates had concluded. I believe that at no point throughout this entire process any MSBS students were reviewed separately or were given any type of “leg up” in the admissions process as we were told. The only thing that held true was that if you got above a 3.0, you got an interview. Most of us had regular applicants in our interview sessions and we all found out about our admissions decisions at the same exact time as regular applicants. UTCOM didn’t even start interviewing regular MD candidates until February, and I understand that MSBS has no control over this, but I believe that this played a large role in many of my classmates not getting in this year. I say this because knowing my fellow classmates who did and did not get in, there is absolutely no clear trend of which people got accepted and which were rejected. I am saying this with interview performance, extracurriculars, uGPAs, MCATs, program performance, participation, and their research projects in mind. I know of plenty of people who were rejected who had perfect or almost perfect GPAs in this program, who got 510+ MCATs, and who went to awesome undergrads and got good uGPAs. These are people who have been published (some multiple times), who have years of clinical & research experience, who have given oral presentations at conferences, who literally rocked their interviews, some people who came into MSBS with a masters degree they earned prior, and even people who had close ties to UTCOM and its faculty. I am saying all of this to communicate to you that there are so many people in this program who are objectively awesome candidates/people who got rejected, and it does not make any sense that they were rejected while other MSBS students who were either equal or not as good got accepted. I am not saying that my classmates who got into UTCOM do not deserve it, I truly believe that most of us deserved to get in, but I am saying that to express how unfair and nonsensical this entire process has been. I know a few people who were accepted who got 3.5 GPAs in this program, and that’s not a bad GPA at all but I can tell you that their applications were very similar to many of us who got even better GPAs in the program and we were flat out denied. There is no logical way to explain the discrepancy between the number of students from last year and their backgrounds versus that of our year. I feel that at the very least we are owed further and honest explanation as to why this is happening rather than this non-specific response. I can’t really prove it, but I believe that MSBS students were not reviewed separately from other candidates this year and we did not get any sort of preference. I honestly believe that the admissions committee was running out of time when reviewing applications and got lazy or did not review applications as carefully as they usually do and in this process, they threw whatever agreement they had with the MSBS program out the window. Which is very upsetting and unfair.

 

[purpletupperware]

5. Ethics: Overall, did the directors do anything in this program that was illegal? No, not at all. But did they completely lack transparency with us when they are aware that pretty much all of these students are wanting to go to medical school and that is a main outcome of this program that they advertise? Absolutely. And is that illegal? Again, no. But is it ethical? Is it kind? Is it right? Absolutely not. And through all of this, did they still make millions of dollars off of us and are able to continue on without giving us anything because *technically* there were no promises made to us? Yes. We have never been offered any sort of explanation as to where our tuition went throughout this year of zoom classes. Honestly we have been too afraid to ask. Let’s be honest, medical school hopefuls are a very vulnerable & profitable population in that they are willing to do just about anything to achieve their dream of medical school acceptance. All of the students in MSBS fall into this population and took a year out of their lives to work hard (harder than many of us ever have in our lives), take out a lot of loans/go into debt, improve their applications, move to a new city/state, and put their all into a program that offered them a lot of hope. And that hope seemed very warranted since the program has worked out for so many students with varying backgrounds before us. We formed bonds with our professors, the community, and each other during a really uncertain time that was made even more uncertain by a horrible pandemic. Amidst this uncertainty, unclear timelines, and some frustrating lack of communication, I can tell you that we all remained professional and respectful. Every single one of my classmates can probably tell you how horrible this summer has been for all of us. Most of us did not hear about our initial admissions decisions until well into June, and many of us in July are either just learning that we have been rejected or have received an email that we are highly unlikely to get off of the waitlist. Apparently in the past many MSBS students have been waitlisted and accepted, so a lot of us held onto that hope (yet another thing we did not learn until admissions decisions started rolling out). Now we are left to rush our applications into the next cycle and to figure out what we are going to do for the next year or two. Again, I realize that there was no promise made to us for admissions, but at the end of the day we are all human and are facing some shock after an exhausting year of proving ourselves. Knowing that many of us were hoping to get into UTCOM, our program director could have sent out communications throughout the summer advising us to start thinking about reapplication or at least offering his condolences or some sort of desire to hear our valuable feedback regarding the program, but he has not. I honestly did feel a sense of camaraderie with the program directors and faculty throughout the year, but at this point I can’t help but feel like I am a dollar sign to this university given their apathetic treatment. This feels very personal considering how much I gave to this program and how much I changed my life for it. I think at the very least they could offer some sort of admissions feedback to those that were denied (which is gonna be what, 30 of us at most?). I really do not think that is too much to ask, especially given that many people on the admissions committee were our professors in many of the MSBS classes and the tuition that we paid.

 

[purpletupperware]

TL;DR: I do find it irresponsible to advertise a program that increases your chances of getting into medical school (specifically UTCOM) to a vulnerable population such as pre-meds when you yourself do not have a grasp on the admissions process for UTCOM, there are no clear trends of who does and does not get into UTCOM from this program, and most of all, when success in this program does not in any way predict admission. Even when a student has great success in this program on top of a 510+ MCAT, a good uGPA, and good activities. Further, I find it even more irresponsible to have this lack of understanding and to counsel students on what they should do in order to get into medical school, particularly UTCOM. Then for someone in leadership to kinda shrug their shoulders when all of that logic fails and great students don't get in as if they, as a leader, didn't explicitly use this logic to advertise the program and guide them through this year. That feels more than irresponsible to me.

Overall, I feel disappointed in the program leadership, my own outcome, and the outcome of my fellow classmates who were rejected, but I am absolutely elated for my classmates who did get in. It is hard to end a year of achieving a greater understanding of the logic of difficult subjects only to end it with an outcome that does not seem to have any logic. There is, however, absolutely no bitterness on my end towards my classmates who were fortunate enough to get in and I am so excited to see the great things they will accomplish. Do I regret my decision to attend this program? Honestly, no. I don't think so. The program was very hard and I learned a lot. I achieved greater than I ever had in my life in subjects that are really challenging for me, and for that I am proud of myself. I also met some awesome people who I love. Plus, a great performance in this program and a master's degree can't hurt my application, right? I'm just at the point where I am not allowing this program to take anything else from me, especially my positive outlook for the future. Does all of this mean that I would recommend the program after my experience? Probably not in many cases. But ultimately, your decision on whether or not to attend this program all depends on where you feel your application needs improvement and I am happy to help with that decision or with any questions via PM.

 

[careforthoselessfortunate]

I would have to disagree with this. I got a 4.0 in the program and have a 510 MCAT, and I am not the only student with these stats (or very similar stats) to have not gotten accepted. I also had a solid number of extracurriculars, both from undergrad and while doing the program, as did other students who were also rejected. In the MSBS class of 2019-20, there were multiple students who had below a 503 MCAT and received a few C's in the program, and they were accepted. There doesn't seem to be any pattern or formula on which students were accepted/rejected, as the students that were accepted had varying GPAs and MCATs. The acceptance rate for last year's class was ~80% and ours seemed to drop to ~40%. During orientation and throughout the year, we were told that UTCOM has enough space to accept our entire class if we perform well and that UTCOM would prefer to admit MSBS students because historically MSBS students perform very well in the medical school. We were told that we were going to be interviewed after all regular candidates had been interviewed and our applications would to be reviewed completely separately from regular candidates. However, I don't believe that any of that was done this year or that MSBS students had any sort of advantage, as they only admitted ~22 students from our class of ~53 students. GV (the program director) told one of the students that the admissions committee doesn't give him any feedback and he seems "banned" from the admissions process, yet he is the one that advises the MSBS students on whether to retake the MCAT and what we should do during the year. Additionally, this program is more expensive than every other graduate program at UT ($31K for in state tuition, $70K for OOS). While this was a pretty good program in the past (which is why I decided to attend), I no longer think this is the case. I don't think I would be able to recommend this program to any future students and wanted to post this so future students don't have any false hope about this program.

you are correct! I stand corrected. I thought more MSBS-MS students were accepted into UTMC but recently found out I was wrong. This is certainly sad. Not sure what is going on with Toledo but I also do NOT recommend UT's MSBS-MS program. Students are being advised they have an excellent chance of getting in even with MCAT's below 500. They are advising NOT retaking the MCAT!

For background I will be graduating with this years MSBS class this upcoming August. I am also one of the many who was not offered a seat in this years UTCOMLS class. Truth be told this is actually a favorable program albeit all the deceit that you must be able to navigate through first. I will be using this post to breakdown the possibilities of you wide eyed does ever so hopeful getting in.

1. MCAT - 504-510 : Program GPA 4.0 - You'll get accepted
.................................Program GPA < 3.7 - 70% chance of acceptance - MCAT may need to be 507+
2. MCAT - 510+ : Program GPA 3.5 - 4.0 - 80% You'll get accepted
3. MCAT - 504-510 : Program GPA >3.7 - 50% Your'e not getting accepted
....MCAT - 504-507..................................- 80% chance not getting accepted

The possibilities of you getting in are high but only if you excel in the program and have a high MCAT. Therefore, I highly recommend you get a 504+ MCAT before doing this program, especially if you were an average student in undergrad and your ability to get 3.8 or higher in this program is questionable.

where are you getting your info from? Is this your opinion or did someone tell you this? Your stats are not indicative of prior years? With an MCAT of 520 and a GPA of 4.0, I would jump ship and attend a different med school . . .

 

[Captain holt 99]

TL;DR: I do find it irresponsible to advertise a program that increases your chances of getting into medical school (specifically UTCOM) to a vulnerable population such as pre-meds when you yourself do not have a grasp on the admissions process for UTCOM, there are no clear trends of who does and does not get into UTCOM from this program, and most of all, when success in this program does not in any way predict admission. Even when a student has great success in this program on top of a 510+ MCAT, a good uGPA, and good activities. Further, I find it even more irresponsible to have this lack of understanding and to counsel students on what they should do in order to get into medical school, particularly UTCOM. Then for someone in leadership to kinda shrug their shoulders when all of that logic fails and great students don't get in as if they, as a leader, didn't explicitly use this logic to advertise the program and guide them through this year. That feels more than irresponsible to me.

Overall, I feel disappointed in the program leadership, my own outcome, and the outcome of my fellow classmates who were rejected, but I am absolutely elated for my classmates who did get in. It is hard to end a year of achieving a greater understanding of the logic of difficult subjects only to end it with an outcome that does not seem to have any logic. There is, however, absolutely no bitterness on my end towards my classmates who were fortunate enough to get in and I am so excited to see the great things they will accomplish. Do I regret my decision to attend this program? Honestly, no. I don't think so. The program was very hard and I learned a lot. I achieved greater than I ever had in my life in subjects that are really challenging for me, and for that I am proud of myself. I also met some awesome people who I love. Plus, a great performance in this program and a master's degree can't hurt my application, right? I'm just at the point where I am not allowing this program to take anything else from me, especially my positive outlook for the future. Does all of this mean that I would recommend the program after my experience? Probably not in many cases. But ultimately, your decision on whether or not to attend this program all depends on where you feel your application needs improvement and I am happy to help with that decision or with any questions via PM.

I am signed up for this right now, just wondering if due to covid19 the program will be in person or online this year. I read all of the criticism that y'all previous program members had and truly, the situation that y'all were in was between a rock and a hard place. Now I am concerned that this might happen to our class as well. However, I have tried to find a justification for what happened this cycle with you guys, given that past cycle really had mbbs students have a leg up. I guess this is just some good old cognitive dissonance at work or something. I think that this may have been due to the kinda screwed up circumstances due to covid. Since you guys didn't meet the professors in person much, the relationships with adcoms members may have been not as good as previous years and the year round interview part of the program got messed up? Furthermore, due to the less than ideal way Toledo handled the interview process this year, they may have not had either enough man power or enough of a chance to conduct the usual separate process and just treated the mbbs students as regular app which had interview invite already. If this is the case, would it change this cycle since vaccines are here and they have a better experience in dealing with the covid and/ or regular admissions process? As for they way yall were treated as in not getting clear schedules and other things, I guess it may be due to covid having a learning curve, but still if I was paying ૩૦k for the tuition, I would expect them to also make sure that I do get the value for which I am laying for, I guess no good excuse for the leadership and their ineffective handling of the program. All in all the drop in the admission may really be a product of the messy cycle, rather than of just not caring and not being upfront, but i guess they could have done more in that regard as well. If what I have said is true and this year would mark a return to a more normal year, would this mean that this year's students could expect a bump in acceptence compared to last cycle? I would certainly hope so, because if I was to go through what you guys have mentioned, i would really wanna get a assurance that there will be reward for me in the end. Please let me know what you think, am i being just too naive about this or what? And also a question what are potential career pathways for me if I don't get in through this process, given that i will have this masters degree( because I don't think that i would have it in me to go through another cycle without having a backup just in case, as my time is a significant investment in this program)?

 

[PreMedPlayer17]

I am signed up for this right now, just wondering if due to covid19 the program will be in person or online this year. I read all of the criticism that y'all previous program members had and truly, the situation that y'all were in was between a rock and a hard place. Now I am concerned that this might happen to our class as well. However, I have tried to find a justification for what happened this cycle with you guys, given that past cycle really had mbbs students have a leg up. I guess this is just some good old cognitive dissonance at work or something. I think that this may have been due to the kinda screwed up circumstances due to covid. Since you guys didn't meet the professors in person much, the relationships with adcoms members may have been not as good as previous years and the year round interview part of the program got messed up? Furthermore, due to the less than ideal way Toledo handled the interview process this year, they may have not had either enough man power or enough of a chance to conduct the usual separate process and just treated the mbbs students as regular app which had interview invite already. If this is the case, would it change this cycle since vaccines are here and they have a better experience in dealing with the covid and/ or regular admissions process? As for they way yall were treated as in not getting clear schedules and other things, I guess it may be due to covid having a learning curve, but still if I was paying ૩૦k for the tuition, I would expect them to also make sure that I do get the value for which I am laying for, I guess no good excuse for the leadership and their ineffective handling of the program. All in all the drop in the admission may really be a product of the messy cycle, rather than of just not caring and not being upfront, but i guess they could have done more in that regard as well. If what I have said is true and this year would mark a return to a more normal year, would this mean that this year's students could expect a bump in acceptence compared to last cycle? I would certainly hope so, because if I was to go through what you guys have mentioned, i would really wanna get a assurance that there will be reward for me in the end. Please let me know what you think, am i being just too naive about this or what? And also a question what are potential career pathways for me if I don't get in through this process, given that i will have this masters degree( because I don't think that i would have it in me to go through another cycle without having a backup just in case, as my time is a significant investment in this program)?

I think as students in this past years program, we understood how the pandemic affected both us and the faculty BUT how previous users mentioned, professionalism was THE MOST important thing stressed by directors. It only makes sense that dedicating an entire year, middle of the pandemic, $40-$70K in debt, and not even getting 70% let alone 50% of the class accepted would cause some feelings of confusion. Yes, the program does not guarantee you a spot. But roughly around 20 students out of the 50 in the class were accepted. I don't think it was because this years class did worse overall, we were actually told by multiple professors how well our class was excelling through the course work compared to other classes. Regardless of the pandemic and the obstacles it did create, professionalism should be shown on both the student and programs side. If this class was just mixed in with regular admissions it is not fair for multiple reasons:

1. Our applications are not even looked at (Primary or Secondary) until post Spring when MSBS grades are sent out to admissions and UT has rolling admissions so the later you apply the lower the seat count gets. As MSBS students we are told this doesn't affect us because we are looked at separately and there is a seat for everyone as long as you do well in the program and have a good application
2. MSBS students interview late (supposed to be after regular applicants are interviewed)

Even with these two reasons, if we are considered regular applicants: many of us hoped MSBS would help our application in some way. Either with undergradGPA, mcat, extracirriculars, research, or just more experience. However, it seems like this past year (which is not easy at all), could have just been spent doing other things for our applications or even just applying early to the regular UT cycle. I just think overall it was unfair to brag about the last years class having over 80% acceptance for ours to barely even make it to half of that. I agree with other students who say to reconsider especially if you know what your application needs. MSBS doesn't allow for much time outside of coursework so just make your decision based on your needs. Our program directors have yet to reach out to us or say anything about decisions and what has happened. I really hope they give a sort of explanation because I think we all deserve something.

 

[purpletupperware]

I am signed up for this right now, just wondering if due to covid19 the program will be in person or online this year. I read all of the criticism that y'all previous program members had and truly, the situation that y'all were in was between a rock and a hard place. Now I am concerned that this might happen to our class as well. However, I have tried to find a justification for what happened this cycle with you guys, given that past cycle really had mbbs students have a leg up. I guess this is just some good old cognitive dissonance at work or something. I think that this may have been due to the kinda screwed up circumstances due to covid. Since you guys didn't meet the professors in person much, the relationships with adcoms members may have been not as good as previous years and the year round interview part of the program got messed up? Furthermore, due to the less than ideal way Toledo handled the interview process this year, they may have not had either enough man power or enough of a chance to conduct the usual separate process and just treated the mbbs students as regular app which had interview invite already. If this is the case, would it change this cycle since vaccines are here and they have a better experience in dealing with the covid and/ or regular admissions process? As for they way yall were treated as in not getting clear schedules and other things, I guess it may be due to covid having a learning curve, but still if I was paying ૩૦k for the tuition, I would expect them to also make sure that I do get the value for which I am laying for, I guess no good excuse for the leadership and their ineffective handling of the program. All in all the drop in the admission may really be a product of the messy cycle, rather than of just not caring and not being upfront, but i guess they could have done more in that regard as well. If what I have said is true and this year would mark a return to a more normal year, would this mean that this year's students could expect a bump in acceptence compared to last cycle? I would certainly hope so, because if I was to go through what you guys have mentioned, i would really wanna get a assurance that there will be reward for me in the end. Please let me know what you think, am i being just too naive about this or what? And also a question what are potential career pathways for me if I don't get in through this process, given that i will have this masters degree( because I don't think that i would have it in me to go through another cycle without having a backup just in case, as my time is a significant investment in this program)?

Hey, thanks for reading! I think it's great that you are reading our criticism and trying to apply it to your future with the program. We have all been trying to search for some sort of justification for these outcomes, and honestly I think that everything that went down this cycle has been a result of a combination of all that you mentioned- the program, its leadership certainly, and UT admissions have had their flaws, but throwing COVID into that equation definitely did not help. I also really wish I knew why UT's interviews did not start until February this year because I feel that could help us understand more. Even if the low admissions rate of this MSBS class was fully a result of a messy cycle, I believe the program directors could have handled this a lot better. Plus, you see here that whatever loyalty/agreement admissions had with MSBS was quickly thrown out of the window, so I'm not sure how strong I feel that relationship is at this point. As a side note, it seems that the disorganization of the program may not be a new thing as I have heard several prior MSBS students mention it in the past as well, but I think again COVID probably made it worse this year. Whatever the case, all of these circumstances were completely out of our control as MSBS students and there is truly not anything more that we could have done in the past year than what was offered to us. There is absolutely no way for you or even the program directors to predict how this upcoming admissions cycle will go, so remember that is out of your control as well, and absolutely no one can give you assurance for your success in getting admitted to UTCOM- many of us learned that the hard way this year.

I think that you should contact the program directors regarding whether or not classes will be in person. With the delta variant gaining speed, I think you guys might have the option of doing online or in person classes, but probably towards the winter you may transition to fully remote.

In my opinion, I think you are best suited for this program if your undergrad GPA is lacking and you would like to prove yourself in that arena, because the opportunity for that is absolutely there with this program. I guess it couldn't hurt if your MCAT is lacking, but keep in mind the latest MCAT many schools take is like September 2021 and it is not a good idea to prepare for and take the MCAT during this rigorous program. While this master's degree is not as useful as many others, I don't find it to be absolutely useless. It can only help you in the job hunting process really as many employers count masters degrees as something that automatically increases your pay rate. I think it would be most useful in the realm of careers in research whether it be statistics-based, human subjects, or bench research, and you can really become strong in those areas if you want to during this program. I think at this point, you need to ask yourself if you would still want to attend this program if it were now advertised as having 0 linkage/leg-up with UTCOM (aside from guaranteed interview) and if admissions statistics from prior classes were not reported, because I think this might be the reality moving forward.

 

[careforthoselessfortunate]

I am signed up for this right now, just wondering if due to covid19 the program will be in person or online this year. I read all of the criticism that y'all previous program members had and truly, the situation that y'all were in was between a rock and a hard place. Now I am concerned that this might happen to our class as well. However, I have tried to find a justification for what happened this cycle with you guys, given that past cycle really had mbbs students have a leg up. I guess this is just some good old cognitive dissonance at work or something. I think that this may have been due to the kinda screwed up circumstances due to covid. Since you guys didn't meet the professors in person much, the relationships with adcoms members may have been not as good as previous years and the year round interview part of the program got messed up? Furthermore, due to the less than ideal way Toledo handled the interview process this year, they may have not had either enough man power or enough of a chance to conduct the usual separate process and just treated the mbbs students as regular app which had interview invite already. If this is the case, would it change this cycle since vaccines are here and they have a better experience in dealing with the covid and/ or regular admissions process? As for they way yall were treated as in not getting clear schedules and other things, I guess it may be due to covid having a learning curve, but still if I was paying ૩૦k for the tuition, I would expect them to also make sure that I do get the value for which I am laying for, I guess no good excuse for the leadership and their ineffective handling of the program. All in all the drop in the admission may really be a product of the messy cycle, rather than of just not caring and not being upfront, but i guess they could have done more in that regard as well. If what I have said is true and this year would mark a return to a more normal year, would this mean that this year's students could expect a bump in acceptence compared to last cycle? I would certainly hope so, because if I was to go through what you guys have mentioned, i would really wanna get a assurance that there will be reward for me in the end. Please let me know what you think, am i being just too naive about this or what? And also a question what are potential career pathways for me if I don't get in through this process, given that i will have this masters degree( because I don't think that i would have it in me to go through another cycle without having a backup just in case, as my time is a significant investment in this program)?

I would certainly do my homework and be extremely careful! Are out OOS?

 

[careforthoselessfortunate]

5. Ethics: Overall, did the directors do anything in this program that was illegal? No, not at all. But did they completely lack transparency with us when they are aware that pretty much all of these students are wanting to go to medical school and that is a main outcome of this program that they advertise? Absolutely. And is that illegal? Again, no. But is it ethical? Is it kind? Is it right? Absolutely not. And through all of this, did they still make millions of dollars off of us and are able to continue on without giving us anything because *technically* there were no promises made to us? Yes. We have never been offered any sort of explanation as to where our tuition went throughout this year of zoom classes. Honestly we have been too afraid to ask. Let’s be honest, medical school hopefuls are a very vulnerable & profitable population in that they are willing to do just about anything to achieve their dream of medical school acceptance. All of the students in MSBS fall into this population and took a year out of their lives to work hard (harder than many of us ever have in our lives), take out a lot of loans/go into debt, improve their applications, move to a new city/state, and put their all into a program that offered them a lot of hope. And that hope seemed very warranted since the program has worked out for so many students with varying backgrounds before us. We formed bonds with our professors, the community, and each other during a really uncertain time that was made even more uncertain by a horrible pandemic. Amidst this uncertainty, unclear timelines, and some frustrating lack of communication, I can tell you that we all remained professional and respectful. Every single one of my classmates can probably tell you how horrible this summer has been for all of us. Most of us did not hear about our initial admissions decisions until well into June, and many of us in July are either just learning that we have been rejected or have received an email that we are highly unlikely to get off of the waitlist. Apparently in the past many MSBS students have been waitlisted and accepted, so a lot of us held onto that hope (yet another thing we did not learn until admissions decisions started rolling out). Now we are left to rush our applications into the next cycle and to figure out what we are going to do for the next year or two. Again, I realize that there was no promise made to us for admissions, but at the end of the day we are all human and are facing some shock after an exhausting year of proving ourselves. Knowing that many of us were hoping to get into UTCOM, our program director could have sent out communications throughout the summer advising us to start thinking about reapplication or at least offering his condolences or some sort of desire to hear our valuable feedback regarding the program, but he has not. I honestly did feel a sense of camaraderie with the program directors and faculty throughout the year, but at this point I can’t help but feel like I am a dollar sign to this university given their apathetic treatment. This feels very personal considering how much I gave to this program and how much I changed my life for it. I think at the very least they could offer some sort of admissions feedback to those that were denied (which is gonna be what, 30 of us at most?). I really do not think that is too much to ask, especially given that many people on the admissions committee were our professors in many of the MSBS classes and the tuition that we paid.

honestly, you are way too kind! What they did was certainly unethical and possibly illegal. They need to be held accountable.

 

[PreMedPlayer17]

anyone is this years msbs program have any idea what happens now? Those who didn’t get in, are we going to receive an email from directors with an explanation or anything? Or is 60% of the class just going to be forgotten about lol

 

[icemaker13]

anyone is this years msbs program have any idea what happens now? Those who didn’t get in, are we going to receive an email from directors with an explanation or anything? Or is 60% of the class just going to be forgotten about lol

From what I gathered from GV, UTCOM received more qualified applicants this year due to this cycle being wonky. Also, the waitlist movement was nonexistent this cycle. The MSBS-MS students banked on getting accepted off the waitlist last year. Not sure how valid those statements are, though, considering the amount of misinformation given out this year.

 

[PreMedPlayer17]

so they advertised 86% (or more) A rate for last years class and it was all off the waitlist? doesn’t seem like thats a good indicator of our classes chances. For as much as they pushed that onto us, you’d expect us to have high numbers too

 

[careforthoselessfortunate]

anyone is this years msbs program have any idea what happens now? Those who didn’t get in, are we going to receive an email from directors with an explanation or anything? Or is 60% of the class just going to be forgotten about lol

probably NOT! Someone dropped the ball . . . they will never admit to whatever happened!

From what I gathered from GV, UTCOM received more qualified applicants this year due to this cycle being wonky. Also, the waitlist movement was nonexistent this cycle. The MSBS-MS students banked on getting accepted off the waitlist last year. Not sure how valid those statements are, though, considering the amount of misinformation given out this year.

yes, MSBS students were told enough spots were held for ALL MSBS students as done in prior years. This is unacceptable. All available time was spent on Toledo's research, MSBS courses, Toledo's secondary, Toledo's letter of intent, etc. If they had no intentions of accepting us or if they anticipated not having enough seats, they should have informed us one-on-one and advised us to consider other options seriously.

 

[careforthoselessfortunate]

From what I gathered from GV, UTCOM received more qualified applicants this year due to this cycle being wonky. Also, the waitlist movement was nonexistent this cycle. The MSBS-MS students banked on getting accepted off the waitlist last year. Not sure how valid those statements are, though, considering the amount of misinformation given out this year.

this info is incorrect! They were unorganized and not truthful to the MSBS students. MSBS did not "bank" on anything . . . they were lied to!

 

[icemaker13]

this info is incorrect! They were unorganized and not truthful to the MSBS students. MSBS did not "bank" on anything . . . they were lied to!

I'm upset with the whole situation too, considering I had a gpa>3.8 in the program and a mcat> 504, and I am now in a horrible position to be applying this next cycle. I also believe it was not very forthcoming of the previous MSBS class not to disclose how many people were being accepted off the waitlist. Ultimately, what I believe is going to happen is that our class will be made an example of going forward, lowering the credibility of the program. I truly believe the program intends on there being ~25 seats being opened up through the waitlist, which would allow for a more significant portion of the MSBS class to earn acceptance. However, as we learned this year, that was definitely not the case.

 

[careforthoselessfortunate]

I'm upset with the whole situation too, considering I had a gpa>3.8 in the program and a mcat> 504, and I am now in a horrible position to be applying this next cycle. I also believe it was not very forthcoming of the previous MSBS class not to disclose how many people were being accepted off the waitlist. Ultimately, what I believe is going to happen is that our class will be made an example of going forward, lowering the credibility of the program. I truly believe the program intends on there being ~25 seats being opened up through the waitlist, which would allow for a more significant portion of the MSBS class to earn acceptance. However, as we learned this year, that was definitely not the case.

I just realized how expensive the MSBS program is at UT! I cost more to attend this program than the 1st year of medical school . . . seriously!