Medical Timeline and Experience as a Non-Trad

[Raryn]

Hello!

First off, just a quick note of thanks for providing this service. My school doesn’t have a great pre-med program, so it’s nice to know that I have some avenue to get my more complicated questions answered. I appreciate the anonymous aspect of this as well, as my info is specific enough that my identity could pretty easily be discovered.

My background:
32, ORM
75 hours towards a Sculpture degree until 2010, then dropped out and changed paths. Stopped school with a 2.98 cGPA with almost no science classes (one credit towards Plant Biology with a B). This GPA really is because I didn’t care enough to try for good grades. I was in school because I didn’t know what else to do; once I found yoga and then Rolfing I had no problem applying myself.

I taught yoga for several years, then went to school for Rolfing and have been working full time as a Rolfer since 2014 while teaching yoga as a hobby. I have been curious about a medical career, and after a few years of consideration and lots of conversations with friends and clients that are doctors, I’ve decided to at least give it a go before my age actually becomes a deterrent. I know one can do medical school well into their 40’s, but I’m of a personal opinion that if I don’t get into med school by 36 and start residency by 40, it will probably not be worth it for my life circumstances. So that gives me a few years of wiggle room but not a ton.

I am in my first semester back at the same university working towards a Biology degree. Fortunately my lack of science classes from my previous run at school leaves me with the strong possibility of a good sGPA, and I expect to finish this first semester with all A’s. I don’t expect any problem with maintaining that average. Despite that, I know that my cGPA will not end up above a 3.2, even in the best of circumstances.

Now for my actual questions:
Clinical hours: I have been working full time as a Rolfer since 2014. From what I’ve read on here, that will probably not be considered as clinical hours since it’s not a team setting and, well, not in a clinic. However, I have read a few Confidential Consults that state this sort of experience may fit into a “grey area” for clinical hours. Will that be the case? And if not, will this be any advantage for my application?

GPA: I’m considering applying to a mix of MD and DO (state school and some “reach” MD schools, and a good mix of DO schools). Will a strong upward trend be enough to be a candidate for mid-range MD schools? I have not taken the MCAT, so I can’t comment on that yet, but have always done quite well on standardized tests so I expect to be able to have a decent score.

And finally, what timeline should I look at? From what I can tell, I’ll be able to finish the degree and all pre-reqs after 3 more semesters (winter of 2022). Should I wait to take the MCAT after I finish those classes, and attempt to apply in the 2023 cycle? Or should I attempt to take the MCAT and apply earlier - I know some traditional students apply after their Junior year, which would put me applying in the 2022 cycle.

I didn’t mention ECs and volunteering hours, but I should have more than enough in the next year to fulfill those requirements.

Thanks again!

Perhaps I'm the only one who has never heard of Rolfing, but Google is bringing up an early-20th century alternative medicine field where you seek to align peoples "energy" with the earth's gravitational field. If that's the case, I can't imagine this will be helpful experience whatsoever for making it into medical school. Like, unless Dr. Oz is your interviewer, I can't imagine people will be amenable to counting it as valid clinical experience (even if a bunch of schools are branching out into "complementary and alternative medicine").

Timeline-wise, it depends on when you finish your pre-reqs. You want, at a minimum, biology, chemistry, physics, & biochemistry done before you take the MCAT. Most people then take some time to consolidate knowledge and take the MCAT. So if you finish your prereqs by the end of 2022, you'd study in early 2023 and take the MCAT Spring 2023 - apply Summer 2023 with a plan to start Med school Fall 2024 for a Spring 2028 graduation. That timeline gives you plenty of time to get some conventional clinical experience and come up with some good essays contrasting your alternative medicine career with the MD/DO approach.

Can you potentially get the MCAT taken in order to apply by Summer 2022? It doesn't sound like it, no.

With that GPA, it's going to be tough to get into an MD school, though not *impossible* if you do well on the MCAT and are otherwise good. It's too early to say for sure. That said, DO is probably a better bet if you can otherwise get the appropriate experiences lined up.

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[GoSpursGo]

Yeah, I'd never heard of this either. I would not think this "counts" for hours in any useful way.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. See how your GPA stands at the end of this semester. If you do indeed get all A's, then move forward. I would generally say applying in 2023 is probably a more realistic timeline, but again, just see how things go.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Raryn - Right, Rolfing has a terrible reputation in that sense, but overall "align[ing] peoples "energy" with the earth's gravitational field" is a huge mischaracterization of what Rolfers do on a day to day. Unfortunately the reputation is hard to move away from - Ida Rolf was a solid part of the Hippie/New Age/Human Potential Movement, and the editors at Wikipedia refuse to believe that what people did in the 60's and 70's is not what people do today. At the same time I can't deny that Ida Rolf proposed some pretty wacky ideas.

What we do is Manual Therapy more similar to OMT and specialized medical massage. The range of things I do on a day-to-day range from working with people with generalized stress/tightness/postural issues to working with clients for specific conditions such as scoliosis, stroke recovery, or carpal tunnel. I regularly consult with doctors and PTs for clients' care. Rolfing certainly suffers from a dearth of research, and there is very mixed evidence as to its efficacy for specific conditions (as with most MT). These are all reasons (along with its terrible reputation) that I'm looking to move into a more legitimate medical field.

However, what I'm gleaning from these posts is that it may be an uphill battle of explaining what Rolfing is.

I completely agree that Summer 2022 seems like an aggressive and probably unwise timeline. Basically I just wanted to be sure I wasn't off in my estimate of the 2023 cycle being the appropriate timeline.

Explaining Rolfing is going to be a challenge. Lacking conventional clinical experience is going to be more of a challenge, as would the question of why you are switching gears. Who you would get as references would be interesting. DO would be more forgiving but it is no gimme.

 

[Goro]

Good to know, thanks for the info. It sounds like I should certainly get more traditional clinical experience before applying.

Mr.Smile, can you explain what you mean by references? If you mean letters of recommendation, that shouldn’t be an issue as I’m actively taking classes and can get two of them from professors I already have relationships with. I have an established relationship with a PM&R doctor in town that regularly refers clients to me and I’m sure he’d be willing to write one as well. I also have several clients who are doctors and NPs who would be willing to write character references. If this is not what you mean by reference, could you please explain? Trying to gather all the info I can at this point and see if there are any gaps I need to consider.

I'm of the generation, as are most of my admissions committee peers, that has heard of Rolfing, but we also have in mind the original description of it.

That is to say, you're going to have a massively difficult time trying to convince us that you were patients are actually patients, and not clients.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

No way is rolfing going to pass for the majority of medical schools. Get some clinical experience so you actually know what it's like to be a doctor. As for your MCAT timeline, sure you could take it earlier, but you want to absolutely make sure you have as much knowledge as possible before hitting the MCAT study books. If you have massive holes in your science base, prepping for the MCAT is going to go very slow and having to learn a bunch of a topic without the background will be a huge task. Do not rush this process.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Goro - that makes a lot of sense. I hadn’t considered the generational aspect of it. I’m obviously a bit narrow in my view of it - when I went through school there was no discussion of energies or those sort of esoteric aspects. However, I have had conversations with older Rolfers who have mentioned that sort of thing (Rolfers training in craniosacral therapy being an example). It’s interesting to post this question and get this sort of response, and I think this is a great reality check for me about the public perception that Rolfing holds. (Oy!)

I don’t consider my clients to be patients (both for legal and for practical reasons, as I’m not diagnosing anything, just treating musculoskeletal issues). I see your point about having to frame it in a patient-oriented manner rather than as a client-oriented service, and in that way it does not fit.

I was wondering if it could be an advantage to my application in terms of having experience with client/patient interaction - I regularly do intakes, medical histories, and interact with physicians and other medical professionals about their care. I would think I could use it as a way of showing my experience and ability to converse with a diverse population in a health-oriented manner. Or do you think the nature of my interactions wouldn’t be seen in that way?

BoneDoctah - thanks for the input. I definitely don’t plan on rushing the MCAT. I think I probably framed my experience with the MCAT subject matter poorly in my original post. That is to say, I don’t have any university credits towards the science pre-reqs, but I have a decent base of knowledge in chemistry, biology, anatomy, and physiology via continuing education and online platforms (khan academy, Coursera, etc.). That is also part of the reason why I’m confident that I will be able to maintain a high GPA, as much of the material in the classes I have to take should be review and/or refinement. Re-reading my original post I recognize that I probably seem overly optimistic about grade outcomes considering this lack of information. Physics is really the only area that I’m lacking, but I come from a family of math teachers so I’m fortunate that I’ll have a lot of support and help if needed in that realm. With all that said, I agree that I certainly don’t want to rush the process. I’d be perfectly happy taking it in spring of 2023.

Sounds good. Seems like you have a solid plan. I had to relearn all of the physics myself as well as my physics courses were a joke. It can be done.

 

[Raryn]

Again, I'm speaking completely off the cuff with a lack of knowledge as to the day-to-day practice of rolfing, but could you leave the exact name out of it? If you wrote about your experience doing medical massage and assisting with patient's musculoskeletal issues, I wouldn't really think twice about it.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Again, I'm speaking completely off the cuff with a lack of knowledge as to the day-to-day practice of rolfing, but could you leave the exact name out of it? If you wrote about your experience doing medical massage and assisting with patient's musculoskeletal issues, I wouldn't really think twice about it.

Agree. I wouldn’t say Rolf anywhere in your app.

 

[Goro]

Agree. I wouldn’t say Rolf anywhere in your app.

1000% agree. You want to avoid anything that has the stench of pseudoscience in it.