Time Magazine's Caribbean Med School Bashing

[Aucdoctobe]

I was wondering if anyone had some thoughts about the upcoming Time Magazine article that will be bashing many Caribbean medical schools. I've heard the big 3 come out fine, but I will believe that when I see it!

Also, Luck, rumor has it that the article addresses the Big 3 and the rise in admissions standards. It commends them. It is something that you might want to see for yourself.

For the other schools that are bashed, I wish them the best of luck. Keep your heads up! Negative media attention can cause problems with residency's and licensure.

For all of those who are thinking about applying to a big 3 Caribbean school, get your applications in as soon as possible. I've said it before and I will say it again. The BIG 3 Caribbean schools are gaining a lot of respect and application standards are rising (quite rapidly). Take care of business if you feel you are marginal and secure a spot.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Luck]

http://www.aaimg.com/list/medical.html

I believe that some caribbean schools do have significant deficiencies.

Windsor School of Medicine,
St. Christopher, West Indies, 2000
Deficiencies
Section I a,b,c,d, e,g,h
Section II b,c,d,f,
Section III b,c,d,e,g,h,k
Section IV c,f,g,j,l,k,m,n
Section V a,d,e,f,h,j,l,m
Section VI a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j
Section VII b,c,e,f,g,i
Section VIII e
No substantive changes were noted since the last site visit. The entire campus still consists of two small rented buildings in an industrialized port area. Classrooms are poorly equipped with one inadequate multipurpose lab and no real medical library. One anatomy cadaver is used for multiple terms. Course descriptions and the curriculum breakdown are inadequate. Small faculty teaches numerous courses and there no listing of clinical hospital affiliations. There are no federal or regulated private loans. Complaints have been received from students about slow refunds and withholding of transcripts. Free housing advertised on web site is so poor that most students will pay to rent apartments.

University of Sint Eustatius,
St. Eustatius, Netherlands Antilles, 1999
Deficiencies
Section I b,c,d,e,h
Section II c,d,k,l
Section III b,c,d,e,,i
Section IV c,f,l
Section V b,c,e,f,h,j,l,n,m
Section VI b,d,e,f,h
Section VII b,d,e,f,g,i
Section VIII b,c
No substantive changes were noted since the last site visit. A promised campus complex has failed to materialize and there has been significant turnover in faculty and administration. Classrooms are in rented local buildings and can require up to a 30 minute walk from one area to another. ?Dorms? are actually run down local hotels. There is insufficient library space and inadequate book and journal holdings although the computer lab is well equipped. Curriculum has a minimal 32 month total duration with an unrealistic number of basic science courses crammed into four terms. School does not publish hospital affiliations or loan programs. Large student body contingent from African country was withdrawn by government last year. School accepts large number of transfer students, some without proper documentation or completion of a full basic science curriculum. Advertising of success rates on web site is misleading.

International University of the Health Sciences,
St. Christopher, West Indies, 1997
Deficiencies
Section I a,b,c,f,g,h
Section II a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,j,k,I,
Section III b,c,d,f,h,I,k
Section IV c,d,e,f,g,k,m
Section V b,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,o
Section VI b.c.d.e.f,g,h,I,j
Section VII a,b,c,d,i
Section VIII a,b,c,e
No significant changes noted since last visit for school with a primarily distance learning curriculum. Grants advanced placement to allied health professionals; full-time residence on St. Kitts is not required. Problem based learning on computer with tutorials gives insufficient basic science preparation. No labs or real library at ?campus? site which is a solitary rented building, ? Brannigan House?. Lacks permanent onsite faculty and the web site list is misleading about actual faculty involvement with students. While hospital experience on St. Kitts has expanded, local physician preceptors are not skilled in problem based learning. There is no list of clinical sites and no federal or regulated private loans are available. Several state licensing boards will not license graduates of this school. Marketing is misleading on web site. Several new affiliations listed in India but Medical College of London does not appear to exist nor have a current link from IUHS. Web site advertises eligibility to take PLAB in U.K. but this was not confirmed by General Medical Council in U.K. The website for IUHS has been expanded to list affiliations with other institutions in the United States, United Kingdom and India. There were no site visits to these ?affiliates? and the London contact appears to have vanished.

St. Matthews School of Medicine,
Ambergis Caye, Belize, Central America, 1997
Deficiencies
Section I b,c,d,f,h
Section II c,e,k,l
Section III a,b,c,d,e,f,i
Section IV b,c,f,g,m,n
Section V b,d,e,f,h,I,I,j,l,m,n
Section VI a,b,e,h,i
Section VII b,e,f,i
Section VIII c
This school has experienced serious internal management problems with both high faculty and administrative turnover. Relocation of basic science campus last year to a rented office building in the Cayman Islands provides only the most basic classroom facilities. The labs and library remain inadequate; plastinated parts are used in anatomy instead of cadavers. School is very decentralized and the Maine campus at a small remote college still lacks proper structure for a basic science instruction. Portion of instruction done in USA may create licensing problems, although this school is still too new for many test cases. Possible licensing issues are still not realistically addressed by the school. School takes significant amount of transfer students and failures from other medical schools. Web site is misleading as to facility and actual onsite fulltime faculty. Clerkship program is loosely organized.

University of the Health Sciences, Antigua,
West Indies, 1982
Deficiencies
Section I a,b,c,d,g,h
Section II a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,j,k,l
Section III b,c,d,h,j,k
Section IV f,g,I,k,m
Section V b,c,e,f,,h,j,k,l,m,n
Section VI a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,
Section VII b,c,d,e,f,g
Section VIII a,b,c,d
Distance learning, part-time attendance, and advanced placement to allied health professionals are part of this curriculum. The school also specializes in quickie, but expensive, ?conversion? degrees-for dentists, veterinarians, doctors of osteopathic medicine and chiropractors to MD?s. There is a run down permanent campus in a remote location with a guard at the gate. Visitors are not welcome. The dorms are old barracks. There are insufficient laboratories and a small library with a few old books and journals. Insufficient faculty are onsite (one elderly fulltime anatomist this past visit) and the faculty list on web page is very misleading. There is no list of clerkship affiliations or preceptors and the school has no relationship with the local hospital or health care community. Stafford loans were withdrawn on an emergency basis in 1995 by US Department of Education, there are no current financial aid programs. Letters sent by former students complain of inability to obtain transcripts and vital licensing endorsements as well as tuition refunds. This school has been in existence over 20 years but web site fails to list graduates with residencies. There are email contacts for more recent graduates but we received few replies.

Spartan Health Sciences University,
St. Lucia, West Indies, 1981
Deficiencies
Section I a,b,c,d,h
Section II a,b,c,d,f,g,j,k,l
Section III c,d,k
Section IV c,f,m
Section V b,ce,f,h,j,l,m
Section VI a,b,e,f,h,I
Section VII c,e,f,I
Section VIII a,b,e
There are no significant changes since the last site visit. There is some improvement noted in the permanent campus building that sits next to a bottling plant in an industrial area of Vieux Fort. There is a small stable faculty who each teach several courses. Nearly all are foreign trained with the exception of 2 Spartan graduates who never completed residencies. There is no alteration in the minimal four trimester basic science curriculum which is taught in a piecemeal approach. It is impossible for all the basic science and pre-clinical topics to be covered in such a short time frame. Two cadavers, one male and one female, are present in the tiny anatomy lab. There is a small library with internet access but the holdings of books and journals are insufficient. There is no listing of hospital affiliations and students must pay own clerkship fees, which can be several hundred dollars a month. 66 weeks of required core clerkships includes only 6 weeks of Pediatrics but 20 weeks of core surgery and surgical subspecialties. The main teaching hospital is a small facility for civil servants in Juarez, Mexico, which tends to run a low census. There is little structure to the teaching program and students must often find there own clerkships in the USA. Federal loans were withdrawn 1997. Despite establishment in 1981 and claims of licensed graduates in 40 states, this school can provide the names of fewer than 60 licensed graduates. There is a history of legal sanctions by California and injunctions by the Texas Attorney General.

 

[Luck]

St. James School of Medicine,
Bonaire, Netherlands Antilles, 2000
Deficiencies
Section I a,b,c,d,f,g,h
Section II a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,j,k,l
Section III b,c,d,g,h,i,j,k
Section IV d,f,g,l,k,m,n
Section V b,c,d,e,f,h,j,k,l,m,n,o
Section VI a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,I,j
Section VII b,c,d,e,f,g,i
Section VIII c
This school began by taking transfer students to clerkships before basic science instruction actually commenced. The basic science curriculum attempts to cram the first two years of medical school into four short trimesters. The facility consists of a few classrooms in a very old school building with no gross anatomy lab or cadavers. There are a few microscopes and improvements in classroom equipment but the overall impression is one of high school science facility, and a poor one at that. There is limited internet access but no real medical library. Up to date journals and texts are woefully absent. There is high faculty turnover and some teachers are also students. Some faculty teach many courses that are often not within their field of expertise. This school has minimal admission standards and has a high percentage of transfer students. Recruiting is directed toward granting advanced standing to allied health professionals; a policy clearly stated on the web page. Allied Health professionals pursuing this course of study are at risk for licensing problems. Another program targets foreign trained MD?s in a ?rehabilitation? program. There is no listing of clerkship affiliations in the catalog or on the web page and applicants are given false assurances that their clerkships will meet ?greenbook? standards by recruiters.

St. Martinus University, Curacao, Netherlands Antilles, 2003
It appears every Dutch island with the exception of Aruba now has a medical school. There is a sketchy web page showing a minimal basic science program crammed into four short trimesters. The new medical is located in Otrabanda, a charming, older area trying to attract business and tourist interest. The facility is a cavernous, old school building sorely in need of renovation for basic medical school facilities such as labs and a library. There were a handful of students and three faculty (one was the Dean) present. The Dean was a former administrator at the University of Sint Eustatius. This school hopes to attract Venezuelan and South American students with plans for extensive development and charges a great deal of tuition for a practically non-existent program. There are no loan programs to date. Curacao is a large island with one large major teaching hospital and more sophisticated medical community than most Caribbean islands. For the time being, St. Martinus rates Global Deficiencies Categories I-VIII.

St. Mary?s School of Medicine, Castries, St. Lucia, West Indies, 2003
This school first surfaced in the Pacific Basin with a WHO listing in the Cook Islands, Rarotonga. There was an aborted effort to hold classes in the Hawaiian Islands resulting in the loss of tuition to many students. The promoter, who had an office in El Paso, Texas, then began instruction across the border in Juarez, Mexico, following the time honored tradition of CAHSU and Spartan. Complaints to the Texas Attorney General by students led to governmental scrutiny and this school vanished from site for a few years. It has resurfaced with a web site and alleges a campus now on the island of St. Lucia. The address on St. Lucia is actually a post office box and there was no evidence of a campus. Furthermore, the World Health Organization is unable to verify any request from the Ministry of Health of St. Lucia to list this school in the World Directory of Medical Schools. St. Mary?s WHO listing has been removed from the Cook Islands. Students are not approved as of the fall of 2003 to take the USMLE exams by the ECFMG. The web site gives no names to contact other than ?Admissions? which is how inquiries are answered by email requests. Students are not required to pay an application fee by must put down a non refundable matriculation of $950.00. St. Mary?s is more than deserving of the Global Deficiencies, Categories I-VIII. There are probably a few confused souls who will actually send a deposit to this place.

Grace University,
Belmopan, Belize, Central America, 2000
Deficiencies
Section I a,b,c,d,f,gh
Section II a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,j,k.l
Section III a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,I,j,k
Section IV c,f,g,I,k,m
Section V a,b,c,d,e,f,h,j,k,l,m,n
Section VI b,c,d,e,f,g,h,I,j
Section VII b,c,d,e,f,g,h
Section VIII a,c,d
Grace University has been in existence for over 15 years and reinvented itself on several occasions. Opening initially on the island of Nevis with a minimal operation, a Cambridge, England, ?campus? was subsequently opened. The site visit in 2001 revealed a shabby, run down upstairs flat on the outskirts of Cambridge promoting a distance learning program with advanced standing for allied health professionals. The school closed briefly when it lost its charter then obtained registration in Belize. The operation moved to the capital, Belmopan, with promises of building a new campus. Grace remains true to its prior modus operandi and has its classes in a rented two flat building on a dirt side road in a residential area. A handful of students hear lectures by a few visiting faculty in the made over living room and bedroom ?classrooms? in this dreary place. There is no catalog and the web site misrepresents the program, facility and faculty members. There is no list of hospital affiliations. This school has run out of the promoter?s home in Florida despite regulations by the Florida Department of Education that requires an approval process. Run from this one.

Central American Health Sciences University,
Belize City, Belize, Central America, 1996
Deficiencies
Section I a,b,c,d,f,h
Section II a,b,c,e,f,g,j,k,l
Section III b,cd,e,g,h,k
Section IV a,b,c,d,f,g,j,l,m
Section V b,c,d,e,f,h,j,k, l,m,n
Section VI b,c,d,e,f,g,h,I,j
Section VII c,d,e,g,I
Section VIII d,e
There are few changes since the last site visit. The school has moved further from Belize City into an area designated as the ?free zone.? This is a guarded area for businesses investment and other entities. The building is an improvement over the former structure but nevertheless rented. There is a large library with computer access but holdings are sparse and most woefully outdated. Students live in nearby small village; this is an isolated area. The anatomy lab held two desiccated cadavers with dirty dissection tools lying about on trays. There is minimal faculty presence; most are part-time. The handful of students present during the site visit state they spend only two terms in Belize then go to the Juarez, Mexico, ?campus.? Our site visitors confirmed that this is, in fact, a store front facility directly across the border from El Paso, Tx. The school does not publish a hospital affiliation list. There is a history of sanctions by the Texas Attorney General.

American International School of Medicine,
Liliendaal, East Coast Demerara, Guyana, South America
Deficiencies
Section I b,c,d,f,g,h
Section II a,c,d,e,f,g,h,j
Section III b,c,d,e,h,i,k
Section IV a,c,f,g,m
Section V b,d,e,f,h,j,k,l,m,n,o
Section VI a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,I,j
Section VII b,d,e,f,g
Section VIII a,c
Application to this school can only be made online and faxed to a number in Massachusetts. Information available on the web site is still incomplete. Minimal facilities and labs still characterize this school which gives advanced standing to allied health professionals and clerkship credit for on the job training. There is some experience available in local hospitals. There are few fulltime qualified faculty members and no list of clerkships. The promoter is a graduate of Grace University with no postgraduate training. Tuition refunds are given only in the case of proven serious illness per the web page.

Centro de Estudios Universitarios Xochimilco,
Ensenada, Mexico
Deficiencies
Section I b,c,d,f,gh
Section II a,b,c,e,f,g,h,I,j,l
Section III b,cd,h,I,k
Section IV a,f,g,k,m
Section V d,f,g,h,l,n
Section VI b,c,d,e,f,g,h,I,j
Section VII c,d,e,f,g,I
Section VIII a,b,d

This school has opened and closed in a number of locations in Mexico for the past 15 years. It moved from central Mexico to the Baja peninsula to attract gullible Americans. It was featured in 1992 on a national investigative news program and subsequently lost U.S. Federal loans. The campus is still housed in a former hotel. There are no labs and few fulltime faculty. Admission standards, course attendance and testing requirements are lax. Faculty is primarily part-time and courses are taught in a haphazard order. There is no list of affiliated hospitals and haphazard clinical supervision.

 

[Luck]

The big three also have some deficiencies that need to be addressed.

http://www.aaimg.com/list/meeting.html

The threshold for meeting or exceeding AAIMG evaluation criteria was a minimum of 75% compliance in each category.
St. Georges School of Medicine,
Grenada, West Indies
Deficiencies
Section IV a
Section VII i


Saba University School of Medicine,
Saba, Netherlands Antilles
Deficiencies
Section I c
Section III e
Section VII i


American University of the Caribbean:
St. Maarten, Netherlands Antilles
Deficiencies
Section I c,i
Section II k
Section IV f,n
Section V g
Section VII i


Ross University School of Medicine,
Portsmouth, Dominica, West Indies
Deficiencies
Section I i
Section II a,n
Section IV f,n
Section V g,i
Section VII i


*Medical University of the Americas,
Nevis, 2000, West Indies
Deficiencies
Section I c
Section II c
Section III d,e
Section IV f
Section V c,n
Section VII i


Universidad Iberoamerica,
Santo, Domingo, Dominican Republic
Deficiencies
Section I c,f,
Section II g
Section III k
Section IV a,g,n
Section VI c
Section VII i
Section VIII d


Instituto Technologica De Santo Domingo,
Dominican Republic
Deficiencies
Section I a,c
Section II f,g,l
Section III k
Section IV a,e,f
Section V g,n


Universidad Autonoma de Guadalajara,
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico
Deficiencies
Section I c,i
Section IV a,n
Section III k
Section IV f,k,n
Section V g,n
Section VII i
Section VIII d


Universidad Autonoma de Ciudad Juarez,
Juarez, Mexico
Deficiencies
Section I c,d
Section III k
Section IV a,f,k,n
Section V d,g,n
Section VI f,j
Section VIII d


Universidad De Monterrey,
Monterrey, Mexico
Deficiencies
Section I c
Section III I,k
Section IV a,c,f,k
Section V d,g,n
Section VI f,j
Section VIII d


Instituto Tecnologico y de Estudios Superiores de Monterrey,
Monterrey, Mexico
Deficiencies
Section I c
Section III k
Section IV a,f
Section VI j
Section VIII d


Universidad de Montemorelos,
Nuevo Leon, Montemorelos, Mexico
Deficiencies
Section I c
Section II k
Section III k
Section IV a,f
Section VI f,j



* This school was listed as provisional in the last report. It is rare for AAIMG to find 75% compliance for a new school, particularly in the Caribbean Basin. Of 9 new schools to open in the Caribbean and Central America since 1997, this is the only school with a permanent, suitable physical facility, adequate staffing and developed clerkships.

 

[Luck]

If you are wondering what the criteria they used is, go to the following website. http://www.aaimg.com/criteria/index.html

AUCdoc, even your school has some deficiencies. Of course this does not say that it is a bad school. In the report, the big 4 including SABA were the only caribbean schools without too many deficiencies.

 

[Luck]

To continue. http://www.aaimg.com/list/provisional.html

The high cost of an inferior education

It is distressing to see so many new medical schools sprouting up on virtually any independent island or promoters using third world countries to set up ?store front? type operations in the United Kingdom. The title of physician is honored and esteemed throughout the world. Numerous television series glamorize the role of physician as living a dynamic, heroic lifestyle. Unfortunately, many promoters in the offshore medical community exploit this image by setting up substandard proprietary schools that prey on the naive and under qualified applicant.

At AAIMG we get dozens of emails each month from prospective applicants who ask for an evaluation of their qualifications. A typical applicant unfortunately, has an undergraduate GPA below 3.0, no MCATS or total MCAT scores under 20. Most of these young people have been accepted at a substandard school that charges a tuition rate higher than many US medical schools. All we can do is warn them that a poor basic science education and a haphazard clerkship program predict little or no success in passing the exceptionally difficult USMLE Steps I and II. According to an analysis of USMLE passing rates by the Education Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates, U.S. citizens who are International Medical Graduates have lower passing rates and lower scores than foreign national IMG?s. The US citizen with an inferior education who fails to pass the USMLE exams cannot obtain a residency and will have little to show but a huge debt. Prospective medical students should consider the following WORDS OF CAUTION:


?Store Front? medical schools cannot offer the level or depth of education needed to pass the USMLE exams nor attract the best faculty.
Substandard schools often exaggerate or distort their poor USMLE passing rates. As the ECFMG does not release scores of individual schools, actual passing rates are difficult to verify. Beware of any unusually high claims of high passing rates that cannot be verified.
The recruiters are trained in high pressure sales tactics, with the same techniques that sell automobiles, aluminum siding and encyclopedias. Their goal is a sale; to make a profit for the school, often in the guise of flattery and concern for your welfare.
The tuition charged by most substandard schools is very high. Some of these schools have private loans from the secondary medical education loan market. It is important to note that some of these loan companies do not rigorously examine the quality of foreign medical schools they approve for loans.
Interest rates charged in the secondary loan market are not deferred; the interest clock starts clicking as soon as the loan is paid out. Numerous fees may also be charged. Loans may also be made for living expenses; thus increasing student debt level.
The loan debt from secondary market loans is not dischargeable in bankruptcy; this means payment default will be rigorously pursued by the loan organization.
The reputable schools often charge a higher tuition rate but offer a more rigorous education and are likely to have FFEL or internal loan programs.
STATE LICENSING BOARDS are becoming increasingly aware of substandard schools, especially those offering advanced standing and a medical degree by distance learning. Denial of a license to practice to any physician is reportable on all licensing board applications and to credential verification organizations. Acceptance into a residency program does not guarantee future licensure.
In summary, the graduate with an MD who cannot pass the USMLE exams has little to show but a huge debt that can be as high as $150,000. The interest clock continues to run; payments cannot be deferred after graduation unless the graduate has passed all exams and is engaged in postgraduate training. Job prospects are limited as is earning power and the Doctor of Medicine is little more than an empty title. The loan repayment will be very high and any graduate in payment default will vigorously pursued. Years better spent in pursuit of another career will have been lost.

 

[Aucdoctobe]

lol... Luck, before you get flamed by many others, I'm going to let you in on a little secret.

Isn?t it strange that there is no information on the President: ?Thomas Moore, MD? who looks like he came out of an issue of GQ Magazine. Thomas Moore is an extremely generic name. Could it have been chosen because of its commonality??

Let me tell you about a company started and run from someone's apartment in Russia..

Let me tell you about a company in Russia that has tried to blackmail Caribbean schools for money or threaten them with negative ratings..

And what if I told you that this company is not taken seriously by any US licensing boards...

But wait, there is more: Anyone who has really researched the issue of a Caribbean education knows this. People who don't are either brand new or ignorant.

So, before giving advice, please research your stuff. Right now, the only definitive measure of a Caribbean medical education is a state licensing board.

Luck, you just got "punk'd" by AAIMG !!

PS I can't rag on you to hard about this one because I fell for it two years ago. I just didn?t give anyone advice at that time.

 

[Luck]

I do not understand why you attack the credibility of the site. It is a pro IMG site. It only means to inform like I am doing. I do not believe that just because it lists some of the deficiencies of caribbean schools that it lacks credibility. It may be difficult to look past the propaganda that many people put out about caribbean schools but please try.

Don't you think there is a reason that TIME appears to be bashing some caribbean schools? It is probably because there is truth to it.

Here are the goals of the aforementioned website and you will see that it is quite pro-IMG. It only means to inform premeds about the positives and negatives about caribbean schools.

http://www.aaimg.com/goals/index.html

To serve as an accurate information source for American citizens unable to gain acceptance into medical schools in the United States.


To encourage training directors and hospitals in the United States to provide clerkship opportunities in the third and fourth year to American citizens studying medicine abroad.


To promote equality of testing and evaluation of all International Medical Graduates.


To encourage residency training directors to give equal consideration to qualified American International Medical Graduates for postgraduate training positions.


To promote equal treatment of International Medical Graduates by all fifty state licensing boards.


To overcome prejudice in the mainstream American medical community and society at large toward our citizens who study medicine abroad.

 

[OnMyWayThere]

No school is perfect, anywhere... heck, isn't a U.S. Medical School called Finch / Rosalind Franklin Medical School ON PROBATION?

I think that website Luck posted is a great tool for you prospective students to see an independant, unbiased review of the schools you wish to attend. Use it to your benefit, but do remember that no school is perfect (U.S. or Caribbean)

 

[wytosk]

when is the time magazine article supposed to come out???

 

[Aucdoctobe]

Luck,

You still don't get it. AAIMG has been shown and proven to be a scam. I invite you to call your state medical licensing board.

I hate to tell you this, but people lie. It doesn?t matter what goals some people posted on a website. The organization is a fraud.

Here are the organization's real goals:

1. Make Money
2. Make Money
3. Make Money

Now, you can believe that some operators living in a beat up Russian apartment are trying to serve the interest of Americans as much as you want.
However, most of us like to use common sense in our decisions.


Just so you know there is a strong push to adopt a uniform, federal licensing board. This organization would require that foreign schools meet certain requirements before their graduates can get licensed. The requirements would be the same in every state. That would be a real organization.


Here is an example of a real organization that truly adopts and upholds standards for licensure:

http://www.medbd.ca.gov/

It's the California Medical Board. They do site visits and evaluations. These evaluations are actually done in the interest of Americans.

 

[Aucdoctobe]

By the way, I don't deny that there are some rather fraudulent Caribbean schools. Where there is profit there is always fraud. I'm just simply making it clear that the AAIMG is fraudulent and a joke. They have some rather shady, exposed dealing with Caribbean medical schools.

The organization that I gave you -- the California State Medical licensing board -- only has approved 3 Caribbean schools for licensure: AUC, SGU, and Ross.

It also has a list of banned medical schools. That is a real organization.

PS,

To another user.. I emailed Time about the article, but I have not got a response yet.

 

[flighterdoc]

I think I'll wait until the article comes out and I read it before I have any opinions about it.

 

[Luck]

AUCdoc,

Believe what is convenient for you. Obviously I never said it was a liscensing board. I believe it is some kind of independent organization that checks schools. If you look, the schools they approve in the Caribbean are SGU, SABA, Ross, and AUC, which is basically what you said.

St. Matthews is on the list with significant deficiencies. I would be careful about applying to St. Matthews.

 

[ferrarijp]

First of all, only St. Georges, AUC, and Ross have California approval. Saba just had their site visit completed and St. Matthews has one schedule later in the year.
Second, where did you get your information on this time article??? Please, do tell!

 

[Aucdoctobe]

Thanks for the correction about St. Matthews. I corrected it.

 

[Therese737]

I am also interested in the Time article.When is it coming out?

 

[Bevo]

ditto

 

[hndrx1a]

Lots of schools mentioned, nothing about one that's been around since 1972 with it's US students successfully getting into residencies in numerous states: "Universidad Central del Este" in Dominican Republic...any thoughts?

 

[skypilot]

Lots of schools mentioned, nothing about one that's been around since 1972 with it's US students successfully getting into residencies in numerous states: "Universidad Central del Este" in Dominican Republic...any thoughts?

My thoughts are that the reason people want to go to SGU is you can do all your clinical rotations in years three and four at ACGME accredited hospitals in New York. Where are the clinical rotations for "Universidad Central del Este?"

Why scrape the bottom of the barrel when there are really good alternatives available?

 

[hndrx1a]

Sky, no state rotations that I'm aware of...but ends are same: get back to US, although work harder without US rotations!
Let's see what that Time article says...

 

[flighterdoc]

AUCdoc,

Believe what is convenient for you. Obviously I never said it was a liscensing board. I believe it is some kind of independent organization that checks schools. If you look, the schools they approve in the Caribbean are SGU, SABA, Ross, and AUC, which is basically what you said.

St. Matthews is on the list with significant deficiencies. I would be careful about applying to St. Matthews.

It's been pretty well debunked as a source of anything valuable. Nobody has been able to find any hard evidence that they exist, except the website (which was hosted in Russia, iirc).

 

[Aucdoctobe]

I called Time and the service representative couldn't find anything on it.

I emailed them also and they sent me a confirmation saying that my ticket had been closed. They gave me a ticket number to see the results, but I could not open it since I am not a customer.

 

[stephew]

I called Time and the service representative couldn't find anything on it.

I emailed them also and they sent me a confirmation saying that my ticket had been closed. They gave me a ticket number to see the results, but I could not open it since I am not a customer.

i HIGHLY recommend anyone quoting "AAIMG" do some serious reaseach on the thing. I can only tell you this much: its definitely NOT my little brother running the site. But more than that, is a great big mystery. Try FAMIR instead.

 

[UT_OC]

AUCdoc vs. Luck everywhere... but they supply good info for both sides... very interesting battle guys.

 

[Luck]

AUCdoc vs. Luck everywhere... but they supply good info for both sides... very interesting battle guys.

Thank you. However, I was just put on probationary status and I am sad.

As for the validity of the site, all you pro-caribbean people can knock it if you want, because of course anyone would since it so boldy hammered many of the caribbean schools. To those in the middle of the debate, you yourselves may see the truth that is evident in the site.

 

[Aucdoctobe]

While essentially disagreeing with everything that Luck says about the Caribbean, he still serves a valuable purpose. He shares the view of many others out there -- one that is rather uninformed. Only by addressing these stereotypes can they be overcome. I believe that strongly.

 

[Luck]

While essentially disagreeing with everything that Luck says about the Caribbean, he still serves a valuable purpose. He shares the view of many others out there -- one that is rather uninformed. Only by addressing these stereotypes can they be overcome. I believe that strongly.

In that we share a common thread. Much like how I have to combat the ignorance that persists against DOs, you have to combat the ignorance that persists about caribbean schools.

As they say, ignorance is bliss.

I would say that I am informed about caribbean schools and in that my fellow colleague you are wrong.

 

[stephew]

Thank you. However, I was just put on probationary status and I am sad.

As for the validity of the site, all you pro-caribbean people can knock it if you want, because of course anyone would since it so boldy hammered many of the caribbean schools. To those in the middle of the debate, you yourselves may see the truth that is evident in the site.

time denies having such an article; its only something a user posted on a web.

 

[Luck]

time denies having such an article; its only something a user posted on a web.

Then why would AUCdoc post such a thing. Jumping-blind bats.

 

[Aucdoctobe]

Then why would AUCdoc post such a thing. Jumping-blind bats.

lol.. Welcome to the Caribbean Rumor Mill.

 

[Meat Cookie]

The AAIMG is anything but an independent and unbiased organization! They demand payment for favorable reviews. This is well known to many. They are not a reliable source of info...plus, much of what they mention on their site is outdated or inaccurate.

 

[bts4202]

Checked TIME this month, its not in there..lol

 

[Bevo]

the aaimg site is anything but legit.

Ive never seen or heard of them ever coming to Ross or any other school for a visit.
I believe in other posts people have tried contacting them, never gotten a response.
Plus the email was something like a hotmail.com account I think.

Site is a joke, wish it would be shut down.

 

[Skip Intro]

Checked TIME this month, its not in there..lol

There have been articles in Forbes magazine and the Hartford Courant newspaper within the past couple of years addressing such issues. Do a search.

-Skip

 

[stephew]

There have been articles in Forbes magazine and the Hartford Courant newspaper within the past couple of years addressing such issues. Do a search.

-Skip

folks, while the net has (almost amazingly) dispeled more "caribbean med school" rumors than its created, I will say that sometimes, the rumor mill really does get the best of you. there are lengthy discussions about the AAIMG situation. I can put up a web site that looks offical and LUCK will tell you he's going to accept it until proven others. Goodluck, luck. As for Time mag, there is no evidence such an article is coming out; even if it does, wake up and smell the free media; youre going to have wait to see what is says and then reply accordingly. Amazingly, folks who whinge about free speech on these boards are ready to call a major publication and ask them to stop the presses. Time wont be changing anything it wants to say because some premeds and med students got a whiff of the thing downwind. Thank goodness these folks aren't running for president. BOttom line, worry about the article if and when it comes out.

As for a good rule of thumb in life: if youre refering to a source know the difference between content and credibility. if you want to say that, well youre not sure how legit they are but maybe they have or raise some good points to investigate or questions to ask, fine and fair enough. But the issue at hand also is whether or not a person or persons is trying to pass themselves off as something they are not. Misrepresentation, fraud ect.

 

[stephew]

Then why would AUCdoc post such a thing. Jumping-blind bats.

because he heard it somewhere else and passed it on. Who have you passed it onto etc?

 

[WowMD]

How about this one?
www.LISD.org (LISD stands for Luck Is So Dumb). Better yet, how about www.LISD.gov Does it sound professional enough for Luck to believe me?

By the way, I just launched this educational and informational website from my dorm room. Hope it helps many future carib med students when choosing a school.

 

[wolfvgang22]

There have been articles in Forbes magazine and the Hartford Courant newspaper within the past couple of years addressing such issues. Do a search.

-Skip

After speaking to an editor for TIME U.S., as well as one of their correspondents, I've learned there is no article in the works about any caribbean med school at this time. Of course, they could be lying, but I doubt it.

I'll be looking for the Forbes and Hartford Cournant articles, though. I don't suppose you have the link handy?

 

[Aucdoctobe]

After speaking to an editor for TIME U.S., as well as one of their correspondents, I've learned there is no article in the works about any caribbean med school at this time. Of course, they could be lying, but I doubt it.

I'll be looking for the Forbes and Hartford Cournant articles, though. I don't suppose you have the link handy?

Nice of you to finally join us ValueMd'r. You will come to see that trolls like to patrol this forum quite often.

 

[wolfvgang22]

Thanks. I have been aware of these forums for a while, I just usually don't post here because of the elitist DO or USMD attitudes often encountered here. Usually get more value out of the ValueMD.
I was feeling onerous yesterday, though, lol.


Have a great day!

 

[aucgrad110]

i must say that i have not really encountered any elitist US MD students. however, there are ALWAYS militant DO's putting down the carribean. on a previous post, a DO puts up numbers about the overall percentage of IMG's getting accepted into residencies. he does NOT acknowledge that these numbers are including EVERY med school from around the world and that many of these applicants have a hard time with english.
then somebody posts the recent 2004 AUC residency list. the DO poster, posts again never acknowledging the list and just states that HIS match percentage number dont lie. secondly, the AUC match list has MANY students getting into tough residencies.

i dont want to violate the TOS, but if you look at the people that really post negative about the carib you will realize that it is always the same posters and they are DO.

is it that THEY have an inferiority complex. i dont understand why they do. many just have such a closed mind that they cant accept the fact that some people just dont WANT DO and want MD. i think that philosophy is rediculous because a DO=MD, but who am i to question these people.

 

[Sharky]

i must say that i have not really encountered any elitist US MD students. however, there are ALWAYS militant DO's putting down the carribean. on a previous post, a DO puts up numbers about the overall percentage of IMG's getting accepted into residencies. he does NOT acknowledge that these numbers are including EVERY med school from around the world and that many of these applicants have a hard time with english.
then somebody posts the recent 2004 AUC residency list. the DO poster, posts again never acknowledging the list and just states that HIS match percentage number dont lie. secondly, the AUC match list has MANY students getting into tough residencies.

i dont want to violate the TOS, but if you look at the people that really post negative about the carib you will realize that it is always the same posters and they are DO.

is it that THEY have an inferiority complex. i dont understand why they do. many just have such a closed mind that they cant accept the fact that some people just dont WANT DO and want MD. i think that philosophy is rediculous because a DO=MD, but who am i to question these people.

It is not about militant DOs. You posted this in another thread before.

i will not name the DO school that i went to but the education at AUC (at least the 1st semester) was superior to the DO program. AUC prepared me for the USMLE which i passed with ease.

This is your opinion and DOs have a right to address this opinion much like you had the right to address my post. It is not right that you automatically label me as a DO militant just because I posted information.

To address the point above, you only had one semester at a DO school and you had two years at AUC for your basic sciences. Obviously your experience with AUC was more intense so you would be inclined to believe it was better. DOs aren't trained to take the USMLE. They are trained to take the COMLEX. As a result, they do better on the COMLEX and the passing rate for the COMLEX is around 93%.

DOs do not have to take the USMLE board so if it is optional, you would understand why they wouldn't do as well.

the proffessors were not Phd's like at the DO school. they were all MD's from many american schools. we have visiting profs from harvard, ucla, johns hopkins etc.

I'm sorry but many DO schools have MDs, DOs, and PhDs as professors. Your information is incorrect here.

Much like you believed I posted misinformation in the previous thread and called me upon it, I'm calling you on your misinformation about DO schools. Does that label me a DO militant? I don't think so.

Perhaps you should learn to simply address the argument and not do personal attacks. Whether unintentional or not, your statements appear to be putting DO schools down at the expense of caribbean schools. Would that make you a caribbean militant? I don't think so.

 

[aucgrad110]

i totally agree with you on the USMLE/COMLEX teaching, sorry if i came off unclear. i wanted to take the USMLE at the time because i was told that some allopathic program PDs would have an easier time evaluating me by the USMLE scores.

about the comparison of the med schools. i never at any point compared the two schools fully. i only compared the first semester classes. ive done numerous posts on the subject. if you would like me to go into detail of my experiances there then PM me. i dont think it is worth doing that on this thread.

now personally, i DO think that schools in general should employ more MDs/DO. back at the DO school that i was at, it was mostly PhDs. the only physicians that were there teached OMM, clinical practicum and that was IT. anatomy had only ONE physician as part of the teaching team. i will admit, he knew his stuff but the language barrier was very tough since he was from the phillapines (like literally off the plane a year back).

now to the militant comment. NO, i would not be considered a carib militant because i do not go out of my way to put down DO schools. i only respond defensively to threads entitled "the facts about US foreign trained physicians in the match".

who has an agenda, DEFINITELY NOT ME.

so yes, to go to another board (carib) and to post only negatives, then yes...... it does fit the description. you even start negative threads as well. so please dont tell me that im militant. i only kick back for the carib, i NEVER draw first blood. i feel that there is no need to because i actually RESPECT the DO profession as i almost was one. your negative posts about the carib are far from being neutral.

FMG MD=DO=US MD

Dr=Dr=Dr

 

[wolfvgang22]

I think that this whole DO vs. MD thing is ridiculous.

Before I became interested in medicine several years ago, I saw a DO when I got injured out of town. I asked him if he was a doctor of optometry, or an opthamologist. He laughed and said "no", and explained it meant "doctor of osteopathy", and was like an MD. I thought that was kinda wierd, but he was very nice and competent in treating me.

Now that I'm going to med school in the caribbean, people at home curiously ask "Where is that school? That sure is far away." I can tell that they are trying to make a judgement about whether it's any good or not, but they just don't have the information available to know what to make of it, same as when I saw that DO.

There's good points and bad points to both. Some PDs like DOs, some like IMGs. They obviously co-exist fine in todays medical system. It's whatever works for you. Who cares what you think is "better". Anyone intelligent enough to pass in med school is intelligent enough to see the ups and downs of both. If not, neither you nor I can help them.

 

[Sharky]

iso yes, to go to another board (carib) and to post only negatives, then yes...... it does fit the description. you even start negative threads as well. so please dont tell me that im militant. i only kick back for the carib, i NEVER draw first blood. i feel that there is no need to because i actually RESPECT the DO profession as i almost was one. your negative posts about the carib are far from being neutral.

Did I say you were a caribbean militant? If you look back in most I said you were not and I wouldn't call you one. Likewise, I think you owe me the respect in not calling me a militant DO.

You went on the DO board and posted the comments that you made against DOs. The only difference between mine and your post is that mine was a thread.

I really don't have that many negative posts about caribbean grads. I've only posted a few times in this forum and they were just my opinions which obviously differ from yours. I know FMG=DO=MD and they are all doctors. That is not the issue. The issue is you attacking people like me or novacek in the other thread calling us militant DOs just because we were addressing your comments that were obviously incorrect about DOs.

 

[aucgrad110]

sorry about thinking that you were calling me militant. i stand corrected.

however, i do NOT just go over to the DO forum do just post negative. first off, i have never created a negative thread there. secondly, any thing i did post was in response to a negative post about caribs. if you look at the thread, it was hardly giving caribs the time of day.

like i said before, i DONT go to the DO board to start controversy. i only respond to posts there after i see a complete biased post against caribs. i challenge you to find a post that i created that is not defending the carib after another post. wont happen.

now i only told my experience from the DO school after posters ranted about how carib route is by FAR not wise.

reread that thread from the begining and you will see what im talking about.

 

[aucgrad110]

and you do go out of your way to post negatives. you just get numbers out of context (which you do research to find) and post them on the carib board and claim for people to decide for themselves.

umm, that sounds like enflaming a bickering war if you ask me.

 

[Sharky]

and you do go out of your way to post negatives. you just get numbers out of context (which you do research to find) and post them on the carib board and claim for people to decide for themselves.

umm, that sounds like enflaming a bickering war if you ask me.

My apologies if that is what it seemed like. I just feel that premedical students should know all the facts when choosing a medical school.

I would hate to work that hard just to realize that now I only have a 50% of matching whereas if I would have gone to an American school my chances would have went up dramatically.

I would just advise people to do much research before choosing any school. Look at the matchlist and all those things. The matchlists for AUC and SGU looked good so maybe graduates from these schools were part of the 50% that matched.

 

[aucgrad110]

WE HAVE A BREAKTHROUGH

we actually agree


when choosing the carib, do research on the school because there ARE many shams out there. research the matchlists and you can see what your chances are to get into a tough residency.


you still need to do very good on the boards (not just min pass) to get these residencies. i think that can be said for the US MD and DO as well.


good post sharky