Thoughts on Job Offer

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jewwithguitar

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Looking for everyone’s opinion on the following offer:

I have the opportunity to start a Pain Management practice for a large, multispecialty organization located in the Northeast. The group is composed of multiple different primary care and specialty practices (over 400 physicians-no Orthopedics or Neurosurgery) and I would be part of the Radiology Department (IR and Diagnostic Rads). The group is part of an MSO and there is no physician ownership of the practices.

As I will be building the practice, I will have the ability to design it however I like. I was told that I can choose to be as busy or unbusy as I like so long as I cover salary/benefits and overhead. My plan would be for an interdisciplinary practice utilizing their many other in-house service lines, minimal opioid management, bread and butter procedures, and some SCS trials. Procedures to be performed in office only and they already have the necessary equipment (C-Arm, Ultrasound, RF generator). Relatively good payor mix (less than 15% MCare/MCaid) with good contracts with private insurers (2x MCare). I am told that they have a long referral list of MSK pain patients that are currently being referred outside of the organization, so I would be busy right away. They are also encouraging me to advertise the practice in the community and understand that this will be done during clinical hours. This would be a full time position (5 days per week, no nights or weekends) and I decide my own hours. Primary call responsibility will be handled by Midlevel providers from the IR department.

The offer is $400k base with $50k sign-on bonus and full benefits. Contract is for 1 year and automatically renews yearly with $25k retention. I asked for a productivity bonus structure, however, I was told that they want to see my collections over the first year to determine this structure.

It seems like a relatively unique opportunity in that I will be able to practice how I like with support from their large organization without hospital admin oversight. I am a bit hung up on the fact that I won’t have a defined productivity bonus structure, especially considering there is no opportunity for equity for my practice-building efforts. I do get good vibes and trust their assurances. But even if they do make me a productivity structure down the line, who is to say it would be a favorable one?

Looking for everyone’s thoughts on the deal and advice on how to proceed. Should I push for the bonus structure to be defined in the contract at the risk of tanking the offer? Should I ask that the contract include language that the bonus structure is to be determined at a fixed point in time? Or accept the offer as is and consider that this may turn out to be more of a lifestyle position?

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Is it in desirable area? I would push base salary to MGMA median and >65$/wruv with more than 6k rvu you generate.
 
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Is it in desirable area? I would push base salary to MGMA median and >65$/wruv with more than 6k rvu you generate.
definitely do the above. negociate a higher base, ask for $450k base ATLEAST. But overall, sounds like a good opportunity honestly.
 
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400 physicians.

You should be all injects and consults for injects 100% full by 6m.
 
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Looking for everyone’s opinion on the following offer:

I have the opportunity to start a Pain Management practice for a large, multispecialty organization located in the Northeast. The group is composed of multiple different primary care and specialty practices (over 400 physicians-no Orthopedics or Neurosurgery) and I would be part of the Radiology Department (IR and Diagnostic Rads). The group is part of an MSO and there is no physician ownership of the practices.

As I will be building the practice, I will have the ability to design it however I like. I was told that I can choose to be as busy or unbusy as I like so long as I cover salary/benefits and overhead. My plan would be for an interdisciplinary practice utilizing their many other in-house service lines, minimal opioid management, bread and butter procedures, and some SCS trials. Procedures to be performed in office only and they already have the necessary equipment (C-Arm, Ultrasound, RF generator). Relatively good payor mix (less than 15% MCare/MCaid) with good contracts with private insurers (2x MCare). I am told that they have a long referral list of MSK pain patients that are currently being referred outside of the organization, so I would be busy right away. They are also encouraging me to advertise the practice in the community and understand that this will be done during clinical hours. This would be a full time position (5 days per week, no nights or weekends) and I decide my own hours. Primary call responsibility will be handled by Midlevel providers from the IR department.

The offer is $400k base with $50k sign-on bonus and full benefits. Contract is for 1 year and automatically renews yearly with $25k retention. I asked for a productivity bonus structure, however, I was told that they want to see my collections over the first year to determine this structure.

It seems like a relatively unique opportunity in that I will be able to practice how I like with support from their large organization without hospital admin oversight. I am a bit hung up on the fact that I won’t have a defined productivity bonus structure, especially considering there is no opportunity for equity for my practice-building efforts. I do get good vibes and trust their assurances. But even if they do make me a productivity structure down the line, who is to say it would be a favorable one?

Looking for everyone’s thoughts on the deal and advice on how to proceed. Should I push for the bonus structure to be defined in the contract at the risk of tanking the offer? Should I ask that the contract include language that the bonus structure is to be determined at a fixed point in time? Or accept the offer as is and consider that this may turn out to be more of a lifestyle position?

No physician ownership of a medical practice is an obvious red flag. Physician-governed organizations have consistently demonstrated better quality, outcomes, and higher physician satisfaction than organizations run by suits and night-school MBA graduates.

Also, it doesn't matter what you "think" you're going to do. In reality, you will do what your Boss tells you. Do you and your Boss agree on that point?
 
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Could be an amazing opportunity to establish culture and ethical pain management.

Edit - Potentially make A LOT of money.
 
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imo, high efficient pain practice normally doesn't fit multi-specialty group very well, I don't believe starting salary is a big issue, how much higher you can go in next five years of practice can be challenging, I saw some pain physicians in those groups can only get 6k wRVUs pearly, in private practice setting it is very reasonable to reach 10k.
 
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Within the Radiology dept lends itself to zero opioid mgmt and efficient procedures.

It's important consider what will happen in 1-2 years if things go sideways. Are you stuck with a no compete clause, no chance of equity, in an area you want to remain?

Even if you trust the people you talked to, it won't matter if the group is sold to a hedge fund and the entire mgmt replaced overnight.
 
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Lots of ppl are gonna give you their opinions but I'd take this job.

In 12 months I'm destroying the overwhelming majority of those 400 doctors when it comes to productivity.

Look at your competition. I'm in the 99% of that group.

No procedural competition.

No brainer IMO.
 
I would not sign without a bonus threshold in place. There should be some sort of structured agreement with the other physicians. I doubt they are all on straight salary

Otherwise are you going to be ok making 425 and bringing in 2 million as you get cranking
 
Keep that salary and ask for production bonuses.

Huge potential IMO.

BTW, I LOL at "relatively good payor mix" followed by 15% Medicare and Medicaid. I rarely see Medicaid but I love my Medicare pts. If you only see 15% you're gonna make a killing.

If Work Comp isn't heavily represented in that pt population you'd be a fool to walk away from this.
 
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I always favor PP than employed but if you like this then at least:
Higher base
Production based formula (with 400 docs including IR, they have enough data) with you getting the higher of the two
Share in ancillaries if possible
Favorable out-clauses
Hammer out the details on that retention bonus (yearly indefinitely? Owed back if quit? Etc)
Make sure there's no chronic med mx in the contract, as you'll be getting most from PCP if no ortho/NSG in group
 
Looking for everyone’s opinion on the following offer:

I have the opportunity to start a Pain Management practice for a large, multispecialty organization located in the Northeast. The group is composed of multiple different primary care and specialty practices (over 400 physicians-no Orthopedics or Neurosurgery) and I would be part of the Radiology Department (IR and Diagnostic Rads). The group is part of an MSO and there is no physician ownership of the practices.

As I will be building the practice, I will have the ability to design it however I like. I was told that I can choose to be as busy or unbusy as I like so long as I cover salary/benefits and overhead. My plan would be for an interdisciplinary practice utilizing their many other in-house service lines, minimal opioid management, bread and butter procedures, and some SCS trials. Procedures to be performed in office only and they already have the necessary equipment (C-Arm, Ultrasound, RF generator). Relatively good payor mix (less than 15% MCare/MCaid) with good contracts with private insurers (2x MCare). I am told that they have a long referral list of MSK pain patients that are currently being referred outside of the organization, so I would be busy right away. They are also encouraging me to advertise the practice in the community and understand that this will be done during clinical hours. This would be a full time position (5 days per week, no nights or weekends) and I decide my own hours. Primary call responsibility will be handled by Midlevel providers from the IR department.

The offer is $400k base with $50k sign-on bonus and full benefits. Contract is for 1 year and automatically renews yearly with $25k retention. I asked for a productivity bonus structure, however, I was told that they want to see my collections over the first year to determine this structure.

It seems like a relatively unique opportunity in that I will be able to practice how I like with support from their large organization without hospital admin oversight. I am a bit hung up on the fact that I won’t have a defined productivity bonus structure, especially considering there is no opportunity for equity for my practice-building efforts. I do get good vibes and trust their assurances. But even if they do make me a productivity structure down the line, who is to say it would be a favorable one?

Looking for everyone’s thoughts on the deal and advice on how to proceed. Should I push for the bonus structure to be defined in the contract at the risk of tanking the offer? Should I ask that the contract include language that the bonus structure is to be determined at a fixed point in time? Or accept the offer as is and consider that this may turn out to be more of a lifestyle position?
Won’t make productivity bonus the first year anyway. I do think it’s strange the group wants to see how the year goes before offering any productivity incentive though.
 
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He could hit the ground running and be at capacity very quickly.

It won't be perfect, but he also won't need to market himself that much.

I spent weeks driving around to different doctors introducing myself to them and shaking hands.

He can just waltz in and establish a referral network that COULD be great.

Assuming the details make sense of course.

Just make sure those docs know you're not a dope dealer.
 
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Make sure there's no chronic med mx in the contract, as you'll be getting most from PCP if no ortho/NSG in group
This x 1000.

I had a situation similar to this a few years ago. I agreed to manage some of the group's meds as part of the agreement for a comprehensive pain center with the understanding that the goal was highly interventional. I got tons of referrals for meds and they got angry when I did "too many" injections.

Your group sounds better and being part of IR is great, but just be sure about this.
 
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400 PCP's and others (?Rheum). The plaque on your wall says "pain management." How do you plan on not being the absolute opioid dumping ground for this group?

IR can always say- and they do- I'm just the radiologist I can't see you for follow up for worsening pain/PDPH/CSF fistula/necrotic injection site/opioid refill.

Can you?
 
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Thanks for the feedback everyone. I did establish expectations of minimal opioid prescribing with the group earlier in discussions based on recommendations from prior job offer threads on the forum. I think it is a relatively unique opportunity to establish a busy, yet ethical practice. It is not physician-owned and there is no opportunity for equity or revenue from ancillaries, so it is not the perfect job (does such a thing exist?), but it seems to align with my career goals and style of practice. I am happy with the base salary as I feel the built-in referral network will allow me to get busy relatively quickly, so I would like to focus negotations on the incentive bonus structure.

Not sure that an RVU-based structure would make the most sense given the quality of the payor mix, so I am thinking a collections-based structure might be more appropriate. Any general recommendations on what I should propose as a starting point? But again, they seem to want to see what I am able to produce before even proposing a bonus structure which is a bit concerning to me.
 
Looking for everyone’s opinion on the following offer:

I have the opportunity to start a Pain Management practice for a large, multispecialty organization located in the Northeast. The group is composed of multiple different primary care and specialty practices (over 400 physicians-no Orthopedics or Neurosurgery) and I would be part of the Radiology Department (IR and Diagnostic Rads). The group is part of an MSO and there is no physician ownership of the practices.

As I will be building the practice, I will have the ability to design it however I like. I was told that I can choose to be as busy or unbusy as I like so long as I cover salary/benefits and overhead. My plan would be for an interdisciplinary practice utilizing their many other in-house service lines, minimal opioid management, bread and butter procedures, and some SCS trials. Procedures to be performed in office only and they already have the necessary equipment (C-Arm, Ultrasound, RF generator). Relatively good payor mix (less than 15% MCare/MCaid) with good contracts with private insurers (2x MCare). I am told that they have a long referral list of MSK pain patients that are currently being referred outside of the organization, so I would be busy right away. They are also encouraging me to advertise the practice in the community and understand that this will be done during clinical hours. This would be a full time position (5 days per week, no nights or weekends) and I decide my own hours. Primary call responsibility will be handled by Midlevel providers from the IR department.

The offer is $400k base with $50k sign-on bonus and full benefits. Contract is for 1 year and automatically renews yearly with $25k retention. I asked for a productivity bonus structure, however, I was told that they want to see my collections over the first year to determine this structure.

It seems like a relatively unique opportunity in that I will be able to practice how I like with support from their large organization without hospital admin oversight. I am a bit hung up on the fact that I won’t have a defined productivity bonus structure, especially considering there is no opportunity for equity for my practice-building efforts. I do get good vibes and trust their assurances. But even if they do make me a productivity structure down the line, who is to say it would be a favorable one?

Looking for everyone’s thoughts on the deal and advice on how to proceed. Should I push for the bonus structure to be defined in the contract at the risk of tanking the offer? Should I ask that the contract include language that the bonus structure is to be determined at a fixed point in time? Or accept the offer as is and consider that this may turn out to be more of a lifestyle position?
i had a job like that and i thought it sounded great - high base and "build the practice" same line about the advertising the practice..

they rode me super hard to do more and more advertising and do more and more marketing dinners - it was horrendous and i had to leave.

i think it all depends on the people and how truly autonomous they allow you to be. how much of your time is marketing vs actually practicing?
 
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No.

No opioid prescribing. If they really have 400 physicians you should be beyond 100% busy doing only interventions and consults for interventions.
 
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Also, there is no need for any marketing other than to have the admin drive you around and meet the other physicians yoir
first couple of weeks.
 
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Also, 400 is a lot of docs, but how spread out is this network? How many are actually in close enough proximity that their patients would drive to you?
 
I have 10 in house and can barely keep up with the kyphos.
I do Rx, but I do not fix anyone else's messes.
Been in same spot since 2007. RVU goes up every year. Despite inability to add time to schedule.
Great practice model.
 
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The vision of the multi-specialty group is very important as well, I know some groups only anticipate the pain physicians to maintain the practice, they actually do not plan to have you more efficient. Without ortho and neuro in the group, the pay scale for pain can be dragged toward the primary care physician's direction.
 
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Why do. you need them?? go out on ur own
 
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No physician ownership of a medical practice is an obvious red flag. Physician-governed organizations have consistently demonstrated better quality, outcomes, and higher physician satisfaction than organizations run by suits and night-school MBA graduates.

Also, it doesn't matter what you "think" you're going to do. In reality, you will do what your Boss tells you. Do you and your Boss agree on that point?
Bingo. Very first thing I saw, "No Physician Ownership." The suits will be nasty after 1 year, I can assure you and they won't be understanding. If you try to be "unbusy" they will definitely start telling you no matter what that they're losing money in your department and you're not even making your guaranteed salary. In fact, you'll never meet your guaranteed base, they'll definitely tilt it in their favor. When I was a fellow, there was an Ortho Hand Surgeon in one of the groups I rotated at, one of the coolest guys actually and when I showed him a job opportunity that came my way via a recruiter with great numbers, he told me something I'll never forget; "When it's too good to be true, it's too good to be true."
 
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i had a job like that and i thought it sounded great - high base and "build the practice" same line about the advertising the practice..

they rode me super hard to do more and more advertising and do more and more marketing dinners - it was horrendous and i had to leave.

i think it all depends on the people and how truly autonomous they allow you to be. how much of your time is marketing vs actually practicing?
Same situation with a large Hospital Health System I was at. If all I'm doing is working super hard to do more and more advertising, more and more marketing dinners, meeting after meeting, why on earth am I not just opening and building my own practice? Same amount of stress and effort, but at least I'd be building equity and something where I am my own boss. The former is just useless, I'm building equity and profit for others.
 
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The only thing I would add is that the large group with no equity stake could be UnitedHealth AKA optimum, AKA Harvard Vanguard and Reliant in the Boston Area. Not a deal breaker but I would want to know.
 
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