Thoughts on dropping out

[swimwreck]

There's no "may." They will be. Some schools are fairly low in tuition, so OP might get out relatively unscathed, but if OP has a lot of loans already, then it would be impossible to service those loans without a doctor's salary. That's just how it works. You can pay 15% of income for 20 years and then have it forgiven, but you would still face a tax bomb.

Do you want to face the prospect of not being able to pay the IRS your tax bill in 20 years, OP?

There is literally no safety net for someone who does not complete a medical education. You either reapply to school (which has its own issues but is not necessarily impossible... but why put yourself through that?) or you find some other career that won't pay your student loans off. You would have the income based repayment schedule so you don't default on student loans, but you still have to pay the tax bill in 20 years. Imagine having like 100k in student loans forgiven and then being charged tax for that (100k + your yearly gross income taxed at a higher bracket).

If your spouse won't support you while in med school, find a new spouse.

OP has enough money to pay for med school, no loans, and then some left over.

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[Sn00pygrrl]

As someone whose dad did medical school in his early 40's with 3 kids (ages 12, 14, and 15) and a wife and a small business--things *can* work out for the best for everyone.

My parents' marriage ultimately did not survive those years, but I think that was more due to the intrinsic problems in a 25 year marriage than the fact that dad was in medical school. My mom was able to run (and eventually sell) the small business and easily get another job, though money was admittedly pretty tight during those years.

25 years later:
mom is remarried to love of her life
older sister is a successful phd with a family
younger brother is a successful phd with a family
dad is still happily working as an MD in his 70's, remarried to a great lady
I'm on here, so you can guess what I'm up to... in my early 40's... lol

You CAN do this with a wife and kids and everyone/everything can end up just fine. Trust the motivation that brought you to medicine in the first place.

 

[El-Rami]

In that case, if OP can get their old job back, then dropping out would be an option. Still, they should have done a better job to see if medicine is what they truly wish to do because they have essentially taken a seat that could have gone to someone who actually wanted to do medicine...

 

[Hippocrates II]

OP, I went through something very similar to you. Older student, had a great career, similar net worth as you, and wondered why I put myself and my family through this hell when I could realistically have just retired in my 30's/40's and lived an easy life.

For me, it came down to the fact that I had always wanted to be a physician from an early age, and it was an interest of mine that only grew every year of my life. I finally got to the point that I knew if I didn't pursue this, I would be an old man someday looking back on my life with regret for having not at least given this a real shot. I'm now in my 3rd year, and I'm finding the situation improves each year. It's hard to go from being a successful professional to having to be treated like a child by faculty and simply having to accept it, but my autonomy is improving each year and my end goal is becoming clearer each day. 1st and 2nd year were horrific for me and I would never want to repeat them, but now that I'm done with them, I'm continuing to see why I left my previous career and why this was the right choice for me.

So, I suppose my ultimate suggestion is to just let it play out for at least a year and see where you're at. This may just be a feeling of change and uncertainty that comes with medicine for everyone, or maybe you'll come to find that this isn't the career you had hoped it to be. Either way, you'll have given it a fair shake and you can make a decision from there. Good luck

 

[2020accoubt]

It may be worthwhile to talk with a counselor. Not a career or academic counselor, but an actual mental health counselor.

It really is tough to tell what being a physician will do to/for your life on the front end. We’re supposed to shadow so we have some idea what it all entails, but that just doesn’t work—none of us really know until we’re living it, and by then, so much has already been sacrificed.

We live in a unique time where many of us are blessed with the luxury of choosing our paths, and with that comes the burdens of regret and discontentment. Ideally, we would all find work that is a natural expression of who we are and makes us even better versions of ourselves. Medicine can do that, or it can do the opposite, and a counselor can help you dig through your real motives to suggest which way it goes.

I say this as someone who was a much worse person in my previous profession, which cost me my family. I am a much better person in this one, despite all the hardship it has imposed. Granted, I wish I had seen a counselor back then to work through why I was so dissatisfied, but that’s not in the cards anymore, and I’m just grateful I’m a much better version of me in medicine.

It really is a tough call you’re facing, but this can be an awesome field, which does carry some pretty high costs along the way. But I’ve seen several families pay those costs with incredible strength and dignity (e.g., the whole family views itself as on call or night float during those shifts).

 

[mspeedwagon]

It's impossible to no until you are in med school and living it. I really wish that med schools would create a semester long program specifically targeted at non-trads to give them the sense of day-to-day life of the first two years of med school. I had over 10 yrs of experience working in a hospital knowing exactly what doctors do on a day-to-day basis and still dropped out. I would likely be much poorer than I am now as a physician and truly went in for the love of medicine which I can't say for most of my classmates. They were more aiming for a stable decent paying job.

In that case, if OP can get their old job back, then dropping out would be an option. Still, they should have done a better job to see if medicine is what they truly wish to do because they have essentially taken a seat that could have gone to someone who actually wanted to do medicine...

 

[mspeedwagon]

Yes, but an SMP is $50k additional on top of a lot of debt so there's no incentive to go through it if you have a high GPA and decent MCAT. I did a DIY post-bac with a 4.0 on top of 10 yrs+ of working at different hospitals while dating a med student. I was implying a voluntary free/cheap program for 4 to 6-months leading up to the start of the first semester. That way, non-trads can withdraw ahead of the start of the school year and that seat can be filled off the waitlist. That would also create a better support community for non-trads when the semester starts.

To be fair, one of the YouTubers I watched, DocOssareh, said his school was sort of set up like this. They took one class ahead of all others to get settled in and familiar with med school. And, the state M.D. school my gf went to required all non-trads who had been out of school for a while to take anatomy the summer before the start of the first semester (there was no extra charge for this). So, these programs exist. I just wish they were more widespread.

There is. It's called doing an SMP or maybe DIY some upper-level science courses and aiming for a 4.0+ on top of extensive shadowing (while asking tough questions). N=1 but going through an SMP and listening to my friends describe their day to day lives in MS1-MS3 gave me a very good idea of what med school is like. There are so many resources (Youtube vloggers, etc.) that dive even deeper into it (as long as you're not watching the ones that act happy and bubbly 24/7 for the camera)

 

[mspeedwagon]

I think for the first part, you are looking at it wrong. Take me, for example. I went to a school that cost $50k per yr. And, the school only got $25k before I dropped out. I wasn't the only student. That money that they are losing should easily suffice to run one anatomy class in the summer for 10-20 people.

I can only speak for the boot camps I'm familiar with. The one at my gfs school was in anatomy and taken very seriously (no one failed). You had to be out of school for at least three years (if I recall correctly) to qualify to take it. Once passed, anatomy didn't have to be taken again. All the non-trads I talked to at that school (which was basically all of them since the school was about 150ish people with 15ish non-trads) loved it.

You haven't read my old posts. I'm a big advocate for moving to the city you went to go to med school at least three-six months out. I moved a week before and it was a complete disaster. I think the anatomy class at my gfs school went from Jun-mid-Aug. Then they had a two wk break and regular classes started. Non-trads that passed anatomy aren't required to take it again.

I also think not pre-studying if you are a non-trad who has been out of school for three plus years is a huge mistake. While I'm aware I'm comparing an M.D. school (where my gf went) to a D.O. school (where I went), doing it the way they did my gfs school they had 100% graduation rate of non-trads. I can think of several at my school that dropped out after the first semester (and it wasn't because they got into an M.D. program).

I was being a bit cheeky with the SMP comment. I know the costs are atrocious (I did one!). I too have a family friend at a T20 who did a "boot camp" before starting (non-trad and hadn't seen the material in a while). However, I don't see your idea working for a wide variety of reasons. Not every medical school, especially ones with lower funding, have the resources/professors/etc to hold these boot camps, and students wouldn't take them seriously because there is no incentive (and if there was a grade requirement it would be unfair if the student has other commitments like family/work etc 6 months out from med school). You could also cause a few people to burn out quicker (that's why some suggest not pre-studying the summer leading up to M1)

Also, lots of people aren't accepted 6+ months out and even if they are, most of them will have plans to end their work/travel/commitments very close to the start of medical school. If someone gets multiple acceptances then which school do they go with for the bootcamp/training program? Not everyone is willing to commit to a school so early. Sometimes the school will just take that as a loss as a way of doing "business". There are a few DO schools I know about that lose ~5 people in the first few weeks as students get off MD waitlists. You would think that with all their data they would "know" who these students are and to avoid them, in favor of picking weaker applicants who aren't able to get another acceptance (but still strong enough to handle the curriculum), but it's just "doing business" for them and they're willing to take that risk for the chance those stronger applicants continue there.

 

[mspeedwagon]

The D.O. school I attended sort of had this. There was an SMP type program where if you did well, you didn't re-take class. But admission was not guaranteed. I had a high GPA/above average MCAT so didn't see the need for the SMP that was advertised as being remedial for low GPAs/MCATs.

Knowing everything I do now, I would do a few things differently (aside from moving to the city early/doing a bit of pre-studying):
- Take another cycle and apply to M.D. schools again (I got interviews, but no acceptances). My friends that did poorly at M.D. school were far better supported. The one class my gf struggled in she was offered free weekly tutoring throughout the semester. Half my class failed the first physiology exam and we were definitely not supported at all.
- Assuming I had all the same offers, accept the offer I was made at A.T. Still University. They talked extensively about what I needed to do to succeed and they even suggested that I start a year out (I didn't see the value at the time but, in retrospect, they were right).
- Take some recent upper level bio courses (I took a lot of them but they were a while ago).

All-in-all, it all worked out well for me. I'll hit a $3 million net worth by 45 (possibly sooner) and, while my gf makes double what I do ($400k+), once you factor in debt and the fact that she just started earning that a year ago, we'll be well into our 50s before she has any hope of passing my net worth.

The best compromise I can see is if med schools made their SMPs exactly 1:1 (or as close as possible - since not all of them are like that, mine wasn't) to MS1 and then you would still apply through AMCAS/AACOMAS but if accepted you don't have to retake those classes, possibly saving you a year or saving you time/tuition that you can spend focusing on other skills, and if you do poorly or change your mind about medicine then it's a $25-50k loss like you said.

 

[NontradICUdoc]

Nothing in this world comes without sacrifice. I was in the research world with a wife and children before starting medical school. But I am the kind of person who cannot live with/does not want to live with regret. Granted I did not have a net worth that you do nor being in an academic research position would I probably ever. I was finding myself in a deep financial hole even before medical school started.

The situation changed for me and I made a decision, with the blessing of my wife, to at least try. If I did not get in then at least I can say I gave it a shot. Long story short,I did get into medical school and I did do three years of residency, And two years of fellowship. These were the longest nine years of struggle we have ever had. But… When I wake up in the morning and I know I have to go to work I am not upset. Tired? Yes but upset no. I remember when Sunday nights were filled with dread because I knew I had to be at work in the morning and this has to be the worst feeling ever. Monday through Friday I could not stand getting up for work. In my earliest work experience after college I would even Look around the parking lot for my boss’s car and if I saw it I knew it would be a bad day.

Right now, I love what I do. Because of the pandemic it has become much harder and more stressful but still, when I get up for work I am OK with it. Not only that but at times I look forward to it especially if I am on a multiday run And have had the same patients since their admission and they have been getting better.

you have to make the decision that is best for you. Not what’s best for your wife and not what’s best for your family. Because in the end you have to live with your decision and you do not want to blame other people for a decision that you never wanted to make in the first place. That being said, since you are a first year medical student, ask yourself this: in seven years (assuming a minimum three-year residency) when you wake up in the morning to go to work will you be looking forward to it or will you be dreading it and wishing you made a different decision.

 

[DO&DPM]

Well, never thought I’d find myself in this position but here goes.

Mid 30s male with a family(stay at home spouse and kids). I’m coming from another professional career and worked for about a decade and did reasonably well in my position. Six figure salary and built a networth of about 750 k prior to matriculating this year - I think this is important to mention as it holds weight in the decision.

A bit of a background on medicine - it was always something I have wanted to do and spent the better part of the last decade preparing for it. I fell into my previous career by chance and so medicine was always the goal. I worked extra hard to build myself financially so that my family will be okay through this journey of medical education and training. I got accepted to a school up north and a few months after that I started getting cold feet but chocked it up to a natural feeling that one would get to let go of a good paycheck. I decided then that medicine was more important and followed through.

Here we are now, 2 months in and I am trying to remember why i want to do this. I wake up every morning with a sense of dread, I miss my old life (which by the way was 80 hr work weeks so I’m not unaware of hard work) - but i was in control and it seems now that it was a smooth simple life. I look at my kids and I have a sense of guilt for what I am about to put them through for the next 7 years. My wife is a saint and has always encouraged me to follow my heart. But I keep asking myself now...why am I doing this to myself and to everyone. I keep thinking that if I put this much efffort In something else for the next 7 years, I would save my myself and my family a lot of heartache, both emotional and financial. I am also extremely angry at myself because I knew all this prior to matriculating, none of this is a surprise and I keep on telling myself to stop thinking so much and be positive but the thoughts don’t go away. What makes this particularly difficult is my boss for who I still do a couple of hours of work on the weekends mentioned that my position is still open and I could go back should I want in the next few weeks. The time limit to this is also adding a sense of pressure to my decision. Sorry for the wall of text, but I guess I’m trying to figure out if anybody has been through a similar situation here. What did you do? Are these just normal thoughts that eventually disappear?

I'm assuming you took your MCAT and probably some more classes while working your old 80hrs/wk job just to get into medical school....which means you wanted this to happen soooo freakn bad! don't let the first awful 6 months of medical school hinder your vision. you're feeling tired and guilty, which is normal. Just think about this, if you're old job isn't available anymore would you drop out and look for a new one?