Think long and hard before coming to Australia

[tk0102]

The medical 'tsunami' just hit --

http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/10/05/no-jobs-so-medical-graduates-face-a-life-serving-doughnuts/

Over a 100 NSW medical graduates will very likely not have an internship next year. On ANY continent. And it's not really their fault. They were constantly reassured throughout all four years that such internships would be available. Now, with having an IMG label, with having to sit out the match for a year, and with some having to scramble to take the USMLE or MCCEE, their medical careers are in serious jeopardy.

Also, consider the following:

1) Australian schools like USyd teach very little biochemistry. Or pharmacology. Or microbiology. Or any basic science subject really. This means that students who don't spend significantly extra time and money preparing for the USMLE will likely not pass. Does that sound like good value for your $60,000+/year tuition?

2) North American residency spots are becoming more and more difficult to match, as more North American medical students are graduating but fewer residency spots are opening. And with the 'fiscal cliff' looming next year, cuts to residency education are imminent, which will make matching even more difficult.

3) The match rate last year out of Sydney was around 60%. It's true that of those that matched, one guy got neurosurgery and another got IM at Columbia. They're rockstars. And rockstars from Australia will probably do better than rockstars from the Caribbean. But 40% didn't match. And soon, it'll be a coin toss--50/50. A coin toss on $300,000 debt and 4 years of the best years of your life.

Think long and hard before coming to Australia.

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[Phloston]

Take your posts elsewhere.

 

[tk0102]

Take your posts elsewhere.

I always appreciate your posts Phloston. I mean that truly, without sarcasm.

I think what I wrote is concordant with your posts elsewhere. Not sure why you disagree.

 

[Socrates25]

The USA will be in the same position as Australia in 20 years. Once all the baby boomers start dying off, there will be a HUGE doctor surplus as the number of medical schools in the USA has exploded with over 60 new programs the last 10 years.

 

[Phloston]

I guess I was a little harsh with my comment. Sorry about that.

 

[JohnSnow]

The medical 'tsunami' just hit --

http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/10/05/no-jobs-so-medical-graduates-face-a-life-serving-doughnuts/

Over a 100 NSW medical graduates will very likely not have an internship next year. On ANY continent. And it's not really their fault. They were constantly reassured throughout all four years that such internships would be available. Now, with having an IMG label, with having to sit out the match for a year, and with some having to scramble to take the USMLE or MCCEE, their medical careers are in serious jeopardy.

Also, consider the following:

1) Australian schools like USyd teach very little biochemistry. Or pharmacology. Or microbiology. Or any basic science subject really. This means that students who don't spend significantly extra time and money preparing for the USMLE will likely not pass. Does that sound like good value for your $60,000+/year tuition?

2) North American residency spots are becoming more and more difficult to match, as more North American medical students are graduating but fewer residency spots are opening. And with the 'fiscal cliff' looming next year, cuts to residency education are imminent, which will make matching even more difficult.

3) The match rate last year out of Sydney was around 60%. It's true that of those that matched, one guy got neurosurgery and another got IM at Columbia. They're rockstars. And rockstars from Australia will probably do better than rockstars from the Caribbean. But 40% didn't match. And soon, it'll be a coin toss--50/50. A coin toss on $300,000 debt and 4 years of the best years of your life.

Think long and hard before coming to Australia.

1) No student should go abroad expecting to be fed the US curriculum unless they go to one of the diploma factories in the Caribbean. So a little extra work here and there shouldn't be a surprise to anybody.

2) This is just inaccurate. In fact, the Congress is looking to increase the number of Primary Care residencies by 15,000 over the next 5 years. Due to Obamacare getting passed there is an immense shortage of Primary Care doctors. This is a win for IMGs as most IMGs land in primary care anyway. You really shouldn't study abroad expecting anything more than a Primary Care residency, again, shouldn't be a surprise.

https://www.aamc.org/advocacy/washh...toincreaseresidencyslotsisagoodfirststep.html

3) I'm going to bet that most of the North Americans at USyd, and in Australia in general, are Canadians, not US citizens. Canadians require visa sponsorship to practice in the US which could be a possible reason for the lower match success rate out of USyd.

 

[88845]

1) No student should go abroad expecting to be fed the US curriculum unless they go to one of the diploma factories in the Caribbean. So a little extra work here and there shouldn't be a surprise to anybody.

2) This is just inaccurate. In fact, the Congress is looking to increase the number of Primary Care residencies by 15,000 over the next 5 years. Due to Obamacare getting passed there is an immense shortage of Primary Care doctors. This is a win for IMGs as most IMGs land in primary care anyway. You really shouldn't study abroad expecting anything more than a Primary Care residency, again, shouldn't be a surprise.

https://www.aamc.org/advocacy/washh...toincreaseresidencyslotsisagoodfirststep.html

3) I'm going to bet that most of the North Americans at USyd, and in Australia in general, are Canadians, not US citizens. Canadians require visa sponsorship to practice in the US which could be a possible reason for the lower match success rate out of USyd.

This would be a major plus! However, I doubt it would even reach the Senate with our current Congress and political condition, overall. Great proposal, nonetheless.

 

[tk0102]

1) No student should go abroad expecting to be fed the US curriculum unless they go to one of the diploma factories in the Caribbean. So a little extra work here and there shouldn't be a surprise to anybody.

2) This is just inaccurate. In fact, the Congress is looking to increase the number of Primary Care residencies by 15,000 over the next 5 years. Due to Obamacare getting passed there is an immense shortage of Primary Care doctors. This is a win for IMGs as most IMGs land in primary care anyway. You really shouldn't study abroad expecting anything more than a Primary Care residency, again, shouldn't be a surprise.

https://www.aamc.org/advocacy/washh...toincreaseresidencyslotsisagoodfirststep.html

3) I'm going to bet that most of the North Americans at USyd, and in Australia in general, are Canadians, not US citizens. Canadians require visa sponsorship to practice in the US which could be a possible reason for the lower match success rate out of USyd.

Fair enough, I concede 3). But not 1) and 2).

Regarding 1): It's not "a little extra work." The difference in curriculum is substantial. And it's not about being "fed US curriculum." The Australian curriculum itself is problematic. There's just not enough basic science training: an excessive focus on "What" comes at the expense of "Why." It's a kind of vocational training that's not suitable for doctoral medical training (and definitely not the USMLE). And it shows in the quality of their graduates--just ask them. In my experience, quite a few wish they had had a more rigorous curriculum.

Also, I'm not sure why you're bashing on "Caribbean diploma mills." Some Caribbean schools are pretty darn demanding--certainly more demanding than Australian schools, where 20 hr/week part-time jobs amongst medical students is not uncommon. And who are you to look down on their diplomas anyway? We're all IMGs looking for a second chance, having to do well on the same licencing exams and having to match though the same process.

Regarding 2): Do you have any idea how Congress works? A bill has been proposed, you say? Wow! The AAMC supports it? OMG. Let me know when it gets out of a single committee... and then somehow gets passed by a Republican House. Look, the reality is that fiscal austerity is the current prevailing attitude, and the shortage of primary care doctors isn't acute enough to worry about yet... and when it is, I'm sure we'll have mid-levels get wider SOPs before we get substantially more funding for residency spots.

 

[tk0102]

x

 

[jp123ok]

Hi there,
I am an IMG. I have done medical exams in Canada(MCCEE&NAC), but I did not still match.
Given that I have the US green card, I am wondering if pursuing USMLE exams or doing MCQ exam would be quicker for work or residency?
Cheers,

If I were you I would try and decide why you were unsuccessful in Canada. Is anything going to be better if you apply for residency in another country or are the same factors that prevented you from matching in Canada going to stop you matching elsewhere?

I have experience with the USA and can discuss this. The USMLE exams consist of multiple parts and in order to obtain ECFMG certification you will need to successfully complete the Part 1, Part 2CS & CK exams. If you completed medical school some years ago this will count against you when you apply for a residency spot. Also, being an IMG will count against you and if English is not your first language then this will count against you too. Therefore, you need to do extraordinarily well on the USMLE exams to have a reasonable chance of securing a residency. If you fail any of the exams you will have blown your chance. If you only scrape through on the exams it won't be much better. Preparing for the USMLE exams sufficiently well to score highly requires a huge amount of effort. You have to decide whether you are willing to put in that effort.

 

[pitman]

Hi there,
I am an IMG. I have done medical exams in Canada(MCCEE&NAC), but I did not still match.
Given that I have the US green card, I am wondering if pursuing USMLE exams or doing MCQ exam would be quicker for work or residency?

I am very thankful for your response
if you have an experience of that.

Cheers,

Sareh, you have posted this same question (identical wording) in two other threads against SDN guidelines. The Australia threads you have multiply posted to are not particularly relevant to your question. If you sincerely want people here to help answer your questions, please do the research to find, and stick to, the appropriate thread. (You also will need to explain far more than you have -- are you aware that you are on an Australian forum, asking about getting into the US after failing Canada? Where have you been training? What MCQ exam?? etc..).