The official 2013 "We're couples matching....and we're scared as hell" thred

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RainerMaria said:
I was wondering if someone wise could comment on commuting between cities/programs that are 1 hour a way. For example, if one person was in providence, the other boston -- would it be reasonable to live at the midpoint? Or is that too much time spent commuting during residency. (Although google maps says 30 minutes, I think between parking and commuter rails it will probably be an hour commute each way.)
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Depends on whether or not you could tolerate the commute. I think it's probably physically do-able, but I would personally kill myself. You'd probably be better off living closer to Boston and having a longer commute into Providence just because it won't be as miserable traffic-wise.

FWIW, one of my residency classmates was married to a guy who did a military EM residency which was 130 miles away. They lived about 1/3 of the way and he had the bigger commute. When she was on inpatient months w/ overnight call, she just rented a room near the hospital and stayed there. It wasn't perfect but it worked for them.
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Neuromonster said:
Again, not an expert here, but it was my understanding that no means no for residency programs. Your S.O may have to cancel or decline the invite if there are no other nearby programs that you guys would eventually rank or if you're not considering suicide matches.
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worth your while to call, particularly if you fit the profile. i'm applying in anes and my fiance is applying in IM, and i've "unrejected" myself from two places so far. granted i've gotten some rejections that my phone call fell on deaf ears, but what do you have to lose? i say just get as aggressive as possible.
 
Thepassageofgas said:
worth your while to call, particularly if you fit the profile. i'm applying in anes and my fiance is applying in IM, and i've "unrejected" myself from two places so far. granted i've gotten some rejections that my phone call fell on deaf ears, but what do you have to lose? i say just get as aggressive as possible.
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I agree that a phone call is probably worth your time; I just think it should be very clear that getting you "unrejected" in now way means that you have a realistic shot of matching there. Obviously, every program is different, but the idea that "the slate is wiped clean" once interviews start is woefully inaccurate for most programs. So while it doesn't hurt, and you can't match at a place you don't interview at, I would be cautious in assuming that you are going to go from rejected to highly ranked on a programs list. But again, it probably is worth the time and money in the many complexities of couples matching.
 
thierryhenry said:
I can tell you what we did.

We have couples matching listed on both our ERAS and NRMP sites, so I think thats a must because you could easily say you are "couples matching" but if its not verified on your ERAS app they might become suspicious.

If my gf had an invite at a place I didn't. I simply called and left a voicemail or emailed and asked them to review my app, stating she was invited to interview (this a different speciality too). She never did anything.

She did the same thing as well.

It worked out well.
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We finally did this a few days ago. So far, it has resulted in one rejection. Better to know now than later, I suppose!
 
So tired of being asked if i have any questions......hahaha. How's everyone's interview trail been going? Have you guys started working on ranking programs with your S.O? or are most of you waiting to be done interviewing? How many places offered both you and your S.O interviews?
 
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How is everyones process going? I'm scared ****less that we're not going to match together.

Both DO students. Both going into EM. I happen to be significantly more competitive in terms of board scores. We've had about 8 DO places interview both of us, another two different ones for each of us. I had another 9-10 MD places, she had about 3-4 MD places. So far one DO program has told us they're not ranking either one of us (??), another has just said they're going to rank me but not rank her.

The whole process is just terrible. We've done everything we can. We applied really broadly, we've gone on most of the interviews we've gotten, I think we both have the personality and done well on the actual interviews themselves, but if its only going to come down to board scores then ugh.

I just want to be somewhere. I don't care where anymore.
 
engineeredout said:
How is everyones process going? I'm scared ****less that we're not going to match together.

Both DO students. Both going into EM. I happen to be significantly more competitive in terms of board scores. We've had about 8 DO places interview both of us, another two different ones for each of us. I had another 9-10 MD places, she had about 3-4 MD places. So far one DO program has told us they're not ranking either one of us (??), another has just said they're going to rank me but not rank her.

The whole process is just terrible. We've done everything we can. We applied really broadly, we've gone on most of the interviews we've gotten, I think we both have the personality and done well on the actual interviews themselves, but if its only going to come down to board scores then ugh.

I just want to be somewhere. I don't care where anymore.
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Matching to the same speciality is not easy, it adds another degree of difficulty to the whole process. I wish you luck, hopefully one of these places will still work out.
 
Those of you with different #1's - how are you working it out? :confused:
 
JackBauerMD said:
Those of you with different #1's - how are you working it out? :confused:
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Well... we aren't done interviewing yet, so things may change a bit. But we went into this planning to make our individual #1s first regardless of geography, and then make everything after that match up. The point being that if we can't have our first choices at least we will be together. Of course, ideally our first choices would be in the same city... but that remains to be seen.
 
My husband and I worked out our joint rank list like this:
We each made our own, individual list.
We each color coded our own, individual list into tiers: green meant no reservations, yellow meant a mild reservation (such as a single resident we didn't like), orange meant a fairly significant reservation that we could be persuaded to compromise on, and red meant we had a major reservation about the program and probably wouldn't be ranking it as an individual applicant.
Then we showed each other the list. If either of us had a program in red, it automatically went to the bottom tier of our combined list. If the worst color we had was orange it went to the second-from-bottom tier. If yellow then third-from-bottom. If it was green for both of us, it went to the top.
So, we wound up with a combined list that was also color-coded based on the worst color either of us had given a program. It wasn't too difficult to sort out from there. We had 3 in green, 4 in yellow, 4 in orange, and 5 in red on the combined list. The hardest part once we had the tiers sorted out was figuring out what order to put the top 3!
 
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Just put together our initial rank list. We started with every possible combination, and put together a spreadsheet with our combined score (each of us could give a program 1-5 points) and a column listing the total distance between programs (in hours of commuting time.... anything with a plane flight was 12 hours, anything requiring a plane flight plus additional travel was 20 hours).

Initially ranked in order of the combined score, and then we went through it together and deleted the combinations we were not willing to commute for, and tweaked some of the middle ranking spots. Our top five combinations are mostly being driven by geography (we have decided we are prioritizing being near family).

The tough part for us now is doing the section of one-person-not-matching. Is everyone including this? How are you ordering it?
 
Ugh that sounds so awful. My husband was an early match, so luckily we don't have to worry about ranking to not match... we just have to worry about not matching together (no pressure, right?!)
 
calico5 said:
Just put together our initial rank list. We started with every possible combination, and put together a spreadsheet with our combined score (each of us could give a program 1-5 points) and a column listing the total distance between programs (in hours of commuting time.... anything with a plane flight was 12 hours, anything requiring a plane flight plus additional travel was 20 hours).

Initially ranked in order of the combined score, and then we went through it together and deleted the combinations we were not willing to commute for, and tweaked some of the middle ranking spots. Our top five combinations are mostly being driven by geography (we have decided we are prioritizing being near family).

The tough part for us now is doing the section of one-person-not-matching. Is everyone including this? How are you ordering it?
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Review this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=604622
 
Finally put together our list. To give you a sense of context- we are an unmarried couple that met in medical school. We really want to stay together but are willing to be apart if we have to. We are matching PM+R (some categorical, some prelim) and Psychiatry. Here was our method:

1. Made our individual rank lists.
2. Made cards for all possible combinations (including do not matches). Cards were useful because they can be reordered and moved around easily as the process gets more complicated.
3. We broke the cards into 5 piles:
A) our top threes
B) programs that are close to one another
C) pairs that were acceptable
D) pairs that were unacceptable
E) the do not match pairs.
4. We ordered the top threes pile first. They were not all close together, but we were willing to be apart if it means we get to train at those places.
5. Then the close proximity pairs. If we can't match at our top 3's we'd at least like to be together in the same place.
6. Next we mixed in the "acceptable pairs." These weren't necessarily very close together, but either they were high enough on one or both of our lists, and/or they were within striking distance on the weekends.
7. Then we added to the bottom of the list the "unacceptable pairs." Low on our lists and far apart. Not the ideal choices, but better than not matching.
8. Last we put down the do not match combinations.
9. To wrap up we went through each pair and compared to the one above and below to make sure things were in the right place.

Total number of ranks: 192 (plus prelim stuff)
Time taken: 3 hours
Not ranking at 192 on match day: Priceless
 
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aProgDirector said:
Review this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=604622
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Thank you for the link. I had read that thread a few months ago and found it very helpful, and it was good to read it through again, just to make sure we're not doing anything crazy!

The psychology of this process, and what it reveals about relationships, is fascinating. I watched the 2009 episode of "doctors' diaries" with some med school friends when it came out (pbs followed a group of harvard med students for 10 years as they progressed through practice), and I feel like someone should interview all us couples' match people and follow us for 10 years, and see how many of our relationships survive! I wonder if the intensity and insight required to do this crazy thing will help us beat the overall divorce rate? Plus fascinating insight into life/career balance for 2-working parents, etc etc.

Sorry, that was random, but all this list making turns the planning part of my brain on strong, and I want to start planning the rest of my life.... eek!
 
We have recertified our list now. I was wondering if any of you saw this:

When you get the email from NRMP saying that your list is certified, it says the total # of ranks you have (which for us is like 350) but does it say the # of individual programs you have? I read that somewhere but in both my certified ROL emails all it said was total ranks and not individual programs I had.

Let me know and good luck to everyone, especially the couples!!
 
thierryhenry said:
When you get the email from NRMP saying that your list is certified, it says the total # of ranks you have (which for us is like 350) but does it say the # of individual programs you have?
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Congrats on certifying. I am excited about not having to think about it for a few weeks.

That is correct- they send the total number of ranks you each have regardless of the number of unique programs. I had a small panic attack when my partner and I had a different number of ranks- but then I realized they include supplementary list ranks. So I had 203 and he had 208, since he had 5 preliminary programs ranked in his supplemental list.
 
Hey all--

for anyone who certified a list with greater than 30 ranks, were you prompted to pay? my buddy and I didn't get prompted to pay our "tab" and now I'm sorta nervous.

Thoughts?
 
Thepassageofgas said:
Hey all--

for anyone who certified a list with greater than 30 ranks, were you prompted to pay? my buddy and I didn't get prompted to pay our "tab" and now I'm sorta nervous.

Thoughts?
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My understanding is that the #30 refers to distinct programs, not ranks. So I have 200 some ranks, but only 11 programs. My partner had 11 programs and 5 preliminary programs.
 
So question: Say we have long shot rank combinations, places we don't really think either one of us would match at even on our own. Would it hurt chances to match at our match-unmatch combinations to place these long shots above them?

IE: Suddenly, a desired Match-Unmatch is now rank #10 instead of #7, due to ranking long shot match-match combinations about it
 
engineeredout said:
So question: Say we have long shot rank combinations, places we don't really think either one of us would match at even on our own. Would it hurt chances to match at our match-unmatch combinations to place these long shots above them?

IE: Suddenly, a desired Match-Unmatch is now rank #10 instead of #7, due to ranking long shot match-match combinations about it
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The only way it would affect your match-unmatch options is if you match at your "long-shot" combinations. So as long as you'd rather be matched at a long shot over one of you ending up unmatched then there is nothing to lose. If you don't end up getting ranked high enough to match at the long shots then the computer will just move on down your list to see if one of your match-unmatch combinations works.
 
I am confused. Shouldn't your long shots be at the top of your list? If this is where you want to go, you should rank it at the top.

The "best" strategy for applicants in the match is to rank the programs you want to go to most at the top of your list.

You cannot "lose" a spot lower on your list by ranking something else "higher" on your list.

If you do not match at all, you would not have matched no matter what order your rank list was in.

For couples, you almost always want your match/unmatched combinations at the bottom of your list (although there are exceptions, depending on personal circumstances)
 
aProgDirector said:
You cannot "lose" a spot lower on your list by ranking something else "higher" on your list.

If you do not match at all, you would not have matched no matter what order your rank list was in.

For couples, you almost always want your match/unmatched combinations at the bottom of your list (although there are exceptions, depending on personal circumstances)
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You know, I think I already knew it but was just looking for reassurance due to being in the couples match that the couples combinations wouldn't screw with the match-unmatch ones. No actual logic here, just nerves. Thanks!
 
Hi all,
Been a long term reader, but I figured I can get some input.

I met my boyfriend in medical school (Dating for over 2 years). We are both from a Carribean school and both are going for IM. On ERAS we indicated as couples, and because of each other we were successful in getting interviews at the exact hospitals and programs.

However, he thinks it's better that we do not Link on the NRMP. He thinks after so much work, we should run our lists individually because we need to match and have a job. That being said he stated he wants to go somewhere where I go.

We made our rank lists separately, and it looks exactly the same. Except for number 3 and 4. We have it backwards.

Programs know we are together, we have interviewed and done second looks together. If anyone had a similar experience.... do you think we will have a chance to match a the same program together?

i have changed my ROL 4 times because of this and it's driving me crazy!
 
discombobulous said:
However, he thinks it's better that we do not Link on the NRMP. He thinks after so much work, we should run our lists individually because we need to match and have a job. That being said he stated he wants to go somewhere where I go.
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Why wouldn't you just put down couples combinations if you want to be together, but then put combinations of you in different locations, and finally match-nomatch combinations?
 
Unless most of your ranks are in the same city, you are practically guaranteeing matching apart. I heard is someone else that tried doing this and ended up in opposite parts of the country. If you rank all the possible combination of matches you should the same exact chance of matching when couples matching as individuals.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using SDN Mobile
 
engineeredout said:
Why wouldn't you just put down couples combinations if you want to be together, but then put combinations of you in different locations, and finally match-nomatch combinations?
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He is afraid of not matching at all because of me. He knows the computer will not run lists separately if we link. So if 1 doesn't match, the other won't. He is not willing to take that risk.

That being said, the first two we have the same programs. 3 and 4 are backwards. 5,6 are the same, 7 is different, 8 and 9 the same, and 10 is different. I thought to make it happen, we made both our lists similar to the same lists. (We are both ranking 10 programs).
 
FON86 said:
Unless most of your ranks are in the same city, you are practically guaranteeing matching apart. I heard is someone else that tried doing this and ended up in opposite parts of the country. If you rank all the possible combination of matches you should the same exact chance of matching when couples matching as individuals.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using SDN Mobile
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He won't do it like that. I told him that...

Program A is on the west cost rakned #1. Program B is on the east coast ranked as #2.... And program C is #3 is ont he west coast. Yes we should do Programs A anc C together and move program B as number 3, but he won't budge.
 
Unfortunately it doesn't sound like he understands how the couples match works at all, and you have a very short time period to educate him. Good luck, make him read this thread, make him read the NRMP informational material. If he refuses maybe this is his way of saying that he isn't that in to you...
 
discombobulous said:
He is afraid of not matching at all because of me. He knows the computer will not run lists separately if we link. So if 1 doesn't match, the other won't. He is not willing to take that risk.

That being said, the first two we have the same programs. 3 and 4 are backwards. 5,6 are the same, 7 is different, 8 and 9 the same, and 10 is different. I thought to make it happen, we made both our lists similar to the same lists. (We are both ranking 10 programs).
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As others have said, he is simply wrong. If you list all combinations in the couples match, you cannot do any worse than if you rank separately.

See here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=604622

If you have X ranks and he has Y ranks, then your maximum combined rank list will be ((X+1) * (Y+1)) -1) ranks long. if so, you can maximize your chances of matching together, yet have the same chance of not matching at all.

The "price" you pay is that someone might get a "lower" rank on your individual preference in order to match together. So, for example, let's say both of your first two ranks are in Boston, and the next two are in NYC. As a seperate match, it's possible that you will match in Boston, and he will match in NYC. If you couple match, then you would might match in NYC -- you get something lower on your list, but you get to be together. But as long as you rank all of the combinations (including the ones were you are in different cities), you don't increase your chances of not matching.

So, either he just doesn't get it, just doesn't care, or is worried that he is a better applicant than you and will get a "worse" spot if couples matched, which is a possibility as explained above.
 
Thank you APD.

I brought it up again with him, it's not worth arguing anymore. I set my rank list based on my preference, what I like, and where I will be happy.

Stupid question though... We didn't tell programs, "hey, we changed our mind, we are not coupling on NRMP". I should still match based on my individual rank list, no?
 
Yes. And remember that programs simply rank you two wherever they want on their rank lists, so can match one, both, or neither. So, in the end, no harm, no foul.
 
discombobulous:
it is unfortuante that you didnt start talking about this earlier.
I was in a simular mindset to your boyfriend with my SO and we are both coming from the carib as well. Did the research and realized that we could have a good chance at the dream of being together at our best programs if we couples matched.
Our list was essentially:

1. dream combos at very good programs. (about 7 combos)
2. Every other single combination of our programs, arranged in our individual rank orders. (11X14 combos - the 7 above)
3. both of our lists seperately with the other person not matching. (11+14)

There is no change in our chance of matching. And if we are not at ouf of our dream combos at the top of our list, the algorithm will essentially run through our match lists individually. Hopeully future couples will be aware that this is an option, especially people like us coming from the carib who are limited in their options.
 
Okay question maybe for aPD and others who might know.

So Monday March 11th, we find out only if we match or not and only on Friday march 15th do we know where. My question becomes well what happens if one half of a couple matches and the other doesn't. The unmatched applicant wouldn't be able to use soap to find a position near the matched applicant because we'd have no idea where the matched one ended up, correct?
 
K31 said:
Supposedly if that happens you can call the NRMP and they'll tell you the city where the matched applicant matched.
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aProgDirector said:
This is absolutely correct
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Seriously?? That's awesome! Thank you so much. Definitely takes a little bit of stress off. Still hoping it won't even be an issue but that's great to know.

I don't know how else to find out this sort of information. I swore I watched/read everything about the couples match and SOAP.
 
The wait is driving us to the edge of madness......how are you guys relieving some of the stress?
 
Not talking about it
and not "jinxing it," per my SO

Im on nights, so that sucks
other than that just enjoying life thats distraction enough
 
Sheldor said:
If only there was something that couples could do together to relieve stress...
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Haha, I was thinking the same thing. In addition to that particular stress relieving activity we have been try to go out on dates and have a good time together, enjoy these last few months of relative freedom, as much as possible not dwelling on the impending joy/ doom.

We also joined a board gaming group because nothing distracts you better than destroying someone in a 3 hour game of Risk.
 
MilkmanAl said:
Destroying elder gods in a 3-hour game of Arkham Horror might give it a run for its money. :p
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All hail Cthulu. We've actually been playing a lot of Seven Wonders- doesn't usually take 3 hours though.
 
I finished Assassin's Creed 3.

Why are they putting Assassin's Creed 4 commercials on TV when it isn't being released until October?
 
its obviously too late for those applying now, but why is there no data on couples matching (other than how many applied/matched)? i hear all these stats about matching and im just like, well none of it really applies to me b/c i am couples matching. it would nice to be not completely in the dark here.
 
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