The Lady Non-Trad

[tetley]

Not a Lady NT, but many, many of my lady-physician friends met their BFs/husbands on OKC

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[Hezzer]

I met my husband on yahoo personals (back when they were still around )

 

[pageantry]

Man, I do not trust internet dating. I feel it dilutes my brand.

EDIT: I mean, I DID it. On all the sites. For like ten years. Never again. I just don't think the majority of guys know how to respect a woman they meet in that decontextualized advertising space.

 

[Eccesignum]

Not a Lady NT, but many, many of my lady-physician friends met their BFs/husbands on OKC

OKC left kind of a bad taste in my mouth. In several years of being on it, the vast majority of messages I got were either random cut/paste spam from people I could tell hadn't read a word of my profile, inappropriately sexual one-liners, "hi u hot whut u name honey"s, and (disturbingly often) comments on my appearance that have involved charged racial slurs.

Granted I live in a remote, sparsely populated area, and things may be different elsewhere. But I definitely have not had an encouraging experience with it.

 

[pageantry]

Granted I live in a remote, sparsely populated area, and things may be different elsewhere. But I definitely have not had an encouraging experience with it.

It's unfortunately not been better in California or NYC, in my (and all of my girlfriends') experience. I think it may have actually been better back when everyone was still scared of meeting an axe murderer. Now, you're just another girl desperate enough for a man that you're willing to commodify yourself like you were an Amazon product page. No one knows you, where you come from, or who would care if they treated you shabbily. They just know you've made yourself AVAILABLE. TO THEM.

My best experiences have come about as a result of joining community organizations, developing good friendships with firm boundaries, and allowing dating to happen only after respect is mutually established. Takes more work, but OKC was just wasting my time anyway.

 

[pageantry]

Basically what I'm saying is that online dating was better when men were literally afraid for their lives. *sigh*

 

[Eccesignum]

Basically what I'm saying is that online dating was better when men were literally afraid for their lives. *sigh*

I have been told I have the handwriting of a serial killer...

 

[DokterMom]

So anyway, I was wondering, how are the rest of you elderly ladies like me handling the maturity gap at your schools? Or planning to handle it? I have decided going to a school where I can afford to have my dog and my cat are just going to have to be a top priority.

Boy Toy!





Uh. I mean this --

One of the physicians at my job (who I have vented to quite a bit over this whole process) brought this up a few weeks ago. Not so much going to a school where I'd be likely to meet someone but to a school in a geographic area/city that would be more aligned with my general social interests. Especially since where you go to school can have a hand in determining where you stay for residency as well.

 

[DokterMom]

It's unfortunately not been better in California or NYC, in my (and all of my girlfriends') experience. I think it may have actually been better back when everyone was still scared of meeting an axe murderer. Now, you're just another girl desperate enough for a man that you're willing to commodify yourself like you were an Amazon product page. No one knows you, where you come from, or who would care if they treated you shabbily. They just know you've made yourself AVAILABLE. TO THEM.

My best experiences have come about as a result of joining community organizations, developing good friendships with firm boundaries, and allowing dating to happen only after respect is mutually established. Takes more work, but OKC was just wasting my time anyway.

OK, back to acting my age... I'd agree that meeting people in non-dating contexts and having a chance to get to know them as people first before considering a possible romantic angle is the way to go. You wouldn't want to get into a relationship with a jerk, even if he was incredibly hot. (OK - after a certain point in life you wouldn't.) I remember stating "Sorry - I require references" to a couple of would-be pick up artists once. The douchey one left immediately, but the nice one stuck around -- turns out we did have mutual friends, and he respected my stance.

 

[pageantry]

Boy Toy!

From experience I'd say that unfortunately the young ones who are attracted to us elderly ladies tend to be pretty needy. Oh well.

And locale really isn't eveything! NYC is filled with narcissists. They might be smart and capable, but not caring. It also doesn't lack for racists or sexists.

My job as I see it is to just try to grow as much as I can on my own so that when I meet a heart of gold it will be glad it found me too. Until then, Neil Young and I will be over here happily singing away with suspicious-looking boogers hanging out of our noses. (Note: JUST KIDDING.) (ABOUT THE SUSPICIOUSNESS.)

 

[Spydra]

So the thought has been presented a few times that I ought to consider going to the school where I feel I might be most likely to meet a compatible future mate.

What can I say, it's not a terrible point to consider. Everyone wants to meet someone.

But then I sat in on a class yesterday (conveniently, for this purposes of this thread, a class on contraception) and remembered, OH. OH WAIT. All my future classmates will be tiny children. Or anyway, they'll be mostly ten years younger than me and the guys will be snickering about the concept of multiple sizes of condoms.

So anyway, I was wondering, how are the rest of you elderly ladies like me handling the maturity gap at your schools? Or planning to handle it? I have decided going to a school where I can afford to have my dog and my cat are just going to have to be a top priority.

I will admit that the singles population in my age range was in my top 3 deciding factors when considering where to apply and where I've ultimately decided to go. I do want to get married in the future and I've exhausted the options to meet someone where I am. Of course my career is first, but I didn't want to be somewhere for 4+ years without the possibility of being asked on a date or having access to single events. The older you get the harder it is to meet someone anyway so I don't feel silly making it a factor.

As for the program I chose I won't be the only 30something and there are a lot of late 20somethings so the maturity gap won't be too wide. This is good because they get my pop culture references, have diverse work/life experiences, and are very focused on finishing on time in order to move forward in our careers. Also my POI mentioned my being older as a positive because it was an indicator that I'd be more organized and determined to finish on time as well as being professional when at practicum sites.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Man, I do not trust internet dating. I feel it dilutes my brand.

EDIT: I mean, I DID it. On all the sites. For like ten years. Never again. I just don't think the majority of guys know how to respect a woman they meet in that decontextualized advertising space.

I had actually completely forgotten about the site when my wife messaged me. I'm just lucky it went to my personal email too.

 

[Mad Jack]

It's unfortunately not been better in California or NYC, in my (and all of my girlfriends') experience. I think it may have actually been better back when everyone was still scared of meeting an axe murderer. Now, you're just another girl desperate enough for a man that you're willing to commodify yourself like you were an Amazon product page. No one knows you, where you come from, or who would care if they treated you shabbily. They just know you've made yourself AVAILABLE. TO THEM.

My best experiences have come about as a result of joining community organizations, developing good friendships with firm boundaries, and allowing dating to happen only after respect is mutually established. Takes more work, but OKC was just wasting my time anyway.

The best way to meet people, in my opinion, is still through social circles, acquaintances, and hobbies.

Then again, I'm just slightly too old to be a member of the Tinder/OKC/Match/wtfever generation.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

The best way to meet people, in my opinion, is still through social circles, acquaintances, and hobbies.

Then again, I'm just slightly too old to be a member of the Tinder/OKC/Match/wtfever generation.

Not sure how old you are, but there are plenty of 30 and 40 year olds on there. I was 29 when I met my wife, who was 32. But I talked to people in their late 30s.

 

[Mad Jack]

Not sure how old you are, but there are plenty of 30 and 40 year olds on there. I was 29 when I met my wife, who was 32. But I talked to people in their late 30s.

There's plenty of people on there, sure. I'm just saying I'm old enough that I'm part of a generation where online dating wasn't accepted by the majority of people until recently. Nowadays, my classmates are swiping left and right all hours of the evening and think nothing of it. Back in the day it was "you're going to get shanked or worse, be careful!"

 

[doyouhaveaflag]

From experience I'd say that unfortunately the young ones who are attracted to us elderly ladies tend to be pretty needy. Oh well.

Eeek! Elderly? Aren't we the same age? (Although my young millennial classmates definitely make me feel like a grandma sometimes)

I have a friend in her 50s who is totally enjoying the MILF-y attention she's getting on dating sites now that she's an empty-nester. But yeah, nothing long-term has come of it.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

There's plenty of people on there, sure. I'm just saying I'm old enough that I'm part of a generation where online dating wasn't accepted by the majority of people until recently. Nowadays, my classmates are swiping left and right all hours of the evening and think nothing of it. Back in the day it was "you're going to get shanked or worse, be careful!"

Yeah, I remember those days. It's definitely way more common and accepted now. Even just in the last few years.

 

[bumblebee611]

There's plenty of people on there, sure. I'm just saying I'm old enough that I'm part of a generation where online dating wasn't accepted by the majority of people until recently. Nowadays, my classmates are swiping left and right all hours of the evening and think nothing of it. Back in the day it was "you're going to get shanked or worse, be careful!"

Just wait till the first wave of divorces. In the last office I worked in, out of about 25 lawyers, 4 had met their (second) spouses on Match.com. Average age of these folks now is mid 40s.

 

[Eccesignum]

From experience I'd say that unfortunately the young ones who are attracted to us elderly ladies tend to be pretty needy. Oh well.

Eeek! Elderly? Aren't we the same age? (Although my young millennial classmates definitely make me feel like a grandma sometimes)

I have a friend in her 50s who is totally enjoying the MILF-y attention she's getting on dating sites now that she's an empty-nester. But yeah, nothing long-term has come of it.

If you're the same age then I'm older than both of you. Imagine how I feel!

 

[pageantry]

If you're the same age then I'm older than both of you. Imagine how I feel!

I gain perverse pleasure from actively desexualizing myself. You guys can continue on as vixens!

 

[Eccesignum]

I gain perverse pleasure from actively desexualizing myself. You guys can continue on as vixens!

Pretty sure the number of years I've been single disqualifies me from ever applying that term to myself.

 

[pageantry]

Pretty sure the number of years I've been single disqualifies me from ever applying that term to myself.

Very well. I extend the open arms of the Schlub Club. Any time. Come on down. We're always just... sitting here.

 

[Eccesignum]

Very well. I extend the open arms of the Schlub Club. Any time. Come on down. We're always just... sitting here.

The Lady Non-Trad Schlub Club. This should be a nationwide thing.

 

[pageantry]

The Lady Non-Trad Schlub Club. This should be a nationwide thing.

With a special Snug Schlub Club Class of 2020 contingent!

 

[Eccesignum]

With a special Snug Schlub Club Class of 2020 contingent!

Happening in a living room near you!

 

[utmn]

Very well. I extend the open arms of the Schlub Club. Any time. Come on down. We're always just... sitting here.

You guys are hilarious. Wish you were gonna be at my school next year, we'd be great friends


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[Darth Doc]

So anyway, I was wondering, how are the rest of you elderly ladies like me handling the maturity gap at your schools? Or planning to handle it? I have decided going to a school where I can afford to have my dog and my cat are just going to have to be a top priority.

I'm not dating (already married), but there is a girl in my class dating a guy 5+ years younger than her. It's working out great for them so far, but like everyone's said, dating is distracting and not the best idea when you have to keep seeing that person if you break up.

Hospitals, though, are full of very smart, single (sometimes divorced) residents and attendings. Medical training takes its toll on physicians, and there are plenty of eligible men around if you're looking for someone over the age of 30.

The age gap can be an issue in the non-dating arena. I've managed to find a couple girls I study with who are a good 13+ years younger than me. It's worked out fine. They're mature for their age; I'm immature for mine. There are some in the class that I just can't spend time around because they are so immature. How they got into medical school I'll never know.

 

[Kasey79]

Darth Doc, I can relate, I was a stay at home for 6 years and while there were times I loved it and loved what I was giving to my kids, deep down I wasn't happy and am so much happier now going to school and working towards my goals. But even though I put in 6 years, my still stay at home mom friends wonder what is wrong with me that I would "purposely make my life harder" now that the kids are in school and I could have time to myself. Im sorry but I felt like my memory and intellect was declining quickly and that I had a greater purpose than what I was doing. Not that I didn't use my mind, but in completely different ways that weren't challenging to me. In addition, I had family members questioning my choices, the same ones that told me to keep working when I decided to stay at home.

The point is, you have to do what is best for you and what you feel is best for your future. Who cares about other people besides your spouse and children or future children. Your kids will know no different than the lifestyle they are provided. I worried and felt guilty that my kids would miss me staying at home with them so much. However, they tell me they are proud of me and they are excited to tell their friends that their mommy might one day become a doctor. I hear them aspiring to be more than what they aspired to before I was on this path. So although your kids may not get a stay at home mommy they have an awesome role model to look up to. I have never met a doctor's child that said they wished their parent wasn't a doctor, but normally they are proud when they tell others what their parent does.

 

[PsyDGurl]

Congratulations all you intelligent women that are following your dreams!! I am a 35 year old married mother of two young children. In one year I will be finishing a Doctorate of Psychology that took 11 years to accomplish. I didn't have many easy days in the last 6 years but in spite of many of the unsolicited opinions we receive, I am living proof that you CAN be a woman and "have it all."

 

[TallPreMed]

My fiancé just told me I'm boring now because all I do is study and chores when I'm not working.

And so it begins...

 

[bunchesonothing]

My fiancé just told me I'm boring now because all I do is study and chores when I'm not working.

And so it begins...

For a good, long time, there was serious tension between my husband and I due to study schedules, etc. I was confused because he'd say to follow my dreams and then sometimes seem to pitch fits. We have been able to get past it, get to the root and work with each other. I understand him now and understand how to be successful in my classes, but present in my relationship as well. I admit, I might not have appeared to be for awhile. And he understands what it means to do what I'm doing. But, to a certain extent, we're doing it together.

Be careful with this and get to the root of stuff like this quickly, if it continues.... because resentment and frustration can build quickly. And it can get nasty.

However, I'm happy to report, having gotten past it, we've never been stronger as a couple.

 

[TallPreMed]

For a good, long time, there was serious tension between my husband and I due to study schedules, etc. I was confused because he'd say to follow my dreams and then sometimes seem to pitch fits. We have been able to get past it, get to the root and work with each other. I understand him now and understand how to be successful in my classes, but present in my relationship as well. I admit, I might not have appeared to be for awhile. And he understands what it means to do what I'm doing. But, to a certain extent, we're doing it together.

Be careful with this and get to the root of stuff like this quickly, if it continues.... because resentment and frustration can build quickly. And it can get nasty.

However, I'm happy to report, having gotten past it, we've never been stronger as a couple.

Yup. He's pushed me to do this too. Not that we are fighting or anything, but he tries to talk to me when I'm studying and I shut it down. I think it'll be easier once I can study in an office and not the living room and set the "if I'm in the office stay away" tone, but right now it's still rather ambiguous. Maybe I should wear a hat or something as my "Do Not Disturb" sign

 

[Spydra]

Hospitals, though, are full of very smart, single (sometimes divorced) residents and attendings. Medical training takes its toll on physicians, and there are plenty of eligible men around if you're looking for someone over the age of 30.

I knew it! When searching for programs I made a point to look for ones near medical schools and large hospitals. Honestly, where else is a smart 30something single gal supposed to husband shop? Lucky me I'll be spending the next four years surrounded by such options

 

[QuesoFresco]

My

I knew it! When searching for programs I made a point to look for ones near medical schools and large hospitals. Honestly, where else is a smart 30something single gal supposed to husband shop? Lucky me I'll be spending the next four years surrounded by such options

My lady friend who is an attending refers to this as, "catching the run off". As in, finding a partner after their first marriage is ruined by medicine. Apparently, this applies to all genders and orientations. We have one friend who met her husband as a resident and another who met his as an intern. Want to find a life partner who shares your love of medicine? Just wait until their first spouse leaves! I wish I was joking. I've been assured this is an observable phenomenon in many hospitals and, regardless of the truth, I find it humorous.

 

[TallPreMed]

My

My lady friend who is an attending refers to this as, "catching the run off". As in, finding a partner after their first marriage is ruined by medicine. Apparently, this applies to all genders and orientations. We have one friend who met her husband as a resident and another who met his as an intern. Want to find a life partner who shares your love of medicine? Just wait until their first spouse leaves! I wish I was joking. I've been assured this is an observable phenomenon in many hospitals and, regardless of the truth, I find it humorous.

Considering the fact that I'm getting married about two months before I hopefully start med school, this is terrifying.

 

[bunchesonothing]

Considering the fact that I'm getting married about two months before I hopefully start med school, this is terrifying.

Agreed. But I fully warned mine of this(high divorce rate) already.

 

[frosted_flake]

Considering the fact that I'm getting married about two months before I hopefully start med school, this is terrifying.

This.

 

[QofQuimica]

It (divorce rate) is high. Medical training puts a lot of stress on a relationship, and particularly if the relationship was kind of hanging on by a thread even before throwing med school/residency into the mix. That being said, it isn't inevitable that your relationship will fail because of medical training. You do have to keep on top of things, not let resentment fester, make time for your SO, etc.

I met my last boyfriend when I was an intern, and we dated all through the rest of my residency. (We broke up when I moved back to Florida after residency.) He was a cop, so he totally "got" my crazy schedule. There is life during med school and residency.

 

[kwebster0814]

I'm not even 20 yet (I'm an undergraduate sophomore), and people ALREADY get judgy with me about this! I want to do an MD/PhD program after I graduate, and I constantly get the unsolicited "what about having a family?" or "guess you'll be having kids late!" when people ask me about my post-undergrad plans... I imagine this only gets more constant as you get further along your path. So happy to see a forum of other women (I see you too, men) standing up to these kinds of comments and moving on.


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[TallPreMed]

This.

Yeah and my fiancé has already started complaining that I'm not giving him enough attention, what with me working full time and going to school half/full time and my response is

 

[Spydra]

My lady friend who is an attending refers to this as, "catching the run off". As in, finding a partner after their first marriage is ruined by medicine. Apparently, this applies to all genders and orientations. We have one friend who met her husband as a resident and another who met his as an intern. Want to find a life partner who shares your love of medicine? Just wait until their first spouse leaves! I wish I was joking. I've been assured this is an observable phenomenon in many hospitals and, regardless of the truth, I find it humorous.

What a weird phrase. I'm not at all surprised that this happens though given how difficult it must be to find someone that gets a med student/attending schedule. I can't say I wouldn't struggle with it, but at least I'd have plenty to occupy my own time being in my own doctoral program. Plus the options there have to be way better than law school guys. I have enough horror stories to write a book lol.

 

[yeshymae]

i get comments from people often. but those comments are usually based around the fact that i already have kids and i am married. i have two kids ages 8 and 6. So while i am in school or in EC activities missing football practice and baseball practice, and have to miss dropping off and picking up from school, when i can make it to that, other moms are telling me that "this" (sports practice etc) is where they would rather be than chasing a career, or school etc. I hate it bc they think that i would rather be sitting in a classroom bc i don't like my kids or care for them. I get people telling me to just get something more obtainable. I also get people telling me that i am their "super hero" but really i am just chasing what feels right for me.
i would love to not have ambition, to be a stay at home mom that bakes 5 dozen cupcakes for their kids classroom, but that isn't me. I did not have the maternal instinct. I am still learning, and I am sure i would have been better off not having children bc i have more of a desire to be in school and be a doctor than to be baking cupcakes and running the carpool for school.
Having a family isn't the only thing a woman can do to have a fulfilling life. Sadly, people still think woman have this NEED to become mothers. You can always adopt children, and marry someone at 76, or at 45, or whatever age you choose. I started early, but that still hasn't kept me from chasing my dream.

 

[bumblebee611]

i get comments from people often. but those comments are usually based around the fact that i already have kids and i am married. i have two kids ages 8 and 6. So while i am in school or in EC activities missing football practice and baseball practice, and have to miss dropping off and picking up from school, when i can make it to that, other moms are telling me that "this" (sports practice etc) is where they would rather be than chasing a career, or school etc. I hate it bc they think that i would rather be sitting in a classroom bc i don't like my kids or care for them. I get people telling me to just get something more obtainable. I also get people telling me that i am their "super hero" but really i am just chasing what feels right for me.
i would love to not have ambition, to be a stay at home mom that bakes 5 dozen cupcakes for their kids classroom, but that isn't me. I did not have the maternal instinct. I am still learning, and I am sure i would have been better off not having children bc i have more of a desire to be in school and be a doctor than to be baking cupcakes and running the carpool for school.
Having a family isn't the only thing a woman can do to have a fulfilling life. Sadly, people still think woman have this NEED to become mothers. You can always adopt children, and marry someone at 76, or at 45, or whatever age you choose. I started early, but that still hasn't kept me from chasing my dream.

Wow, those are some pretty intense feelings - not judging, but it is rare to hear someone say she would have been better off not having become a mother. I applaud you for your honesty.

As a mother of school-aged kids, I also get some of the same sorts of commentary, but I've been getting it for ages given my prior career, so it no longer fazes me. I am confident that I am the best mom for my kids and they are the best kids for me. What more could I ask?

 

[pageantry]

Wow, those are some pretty intense feelings - not judging, but it is rare to hear someone say she would have been better off not having become a mother. I applaud you for your honesty.

That was my favorite moment in the last season of House of Cards.

 

[futuremdforme]

i get comments from people often. but those comments are usually based around the fact that i already have kids and i am married. i have two kids ages 8 and 6. So while i am in school or in EC activities missing football practice and baseball practice, and have to miss dropping off and picking up from school, when i can make it to that, other moms are telling me that "this" (sports practice etc) is where they would rather be than chasing a career, or school etc. I hate it bc they think that i would rather be sitting in a classroom bc i don't like my kids or care for them. I get people telling me to just get something more obtainable. I also get people telling me that i am their "super hero" but really i am just chasing what feels right for me.
i would love to not have ambition, to be a stay at home mom that bakes 5 dozen cupcakes for their kids classroom, but that isn't me. I did not have the maternal instinct. I am still learning, and I am sure i would have been better off not having children bc i have more of a desire to be in school and be a doctor than to be baking cupcakes and running the carpool for school.
Having a family isn't the only thing a woman can do to have a fulfilling life. Sadly, people still think woman have this NEED to become mothers. You can always adopt children, and marry someone at 76, or at 45, or whatever age you choose. I started early, but that still hasn't kept me from chasing my dream.

That must be frustrating to get feedback that you should strive for less than what you intend to do...

Question about having your kids in general though: is it more of a hypothetical "in principal, it would have been better not to have kids" or do you really think it was the wrong move? If so, why did you decide to have a second? I'm totally not judging and am just really curious, because I've always used the second kid as someone's decision that they like being a parent, whereas I figured if they only have one, it's a toss-up.

 

[pageantry]

As an aside, it's always a fun little feminist re-up moment when I tell someone I'm going to medical school in August and they immediately say back to me, "Oh, which nursing school are you planning to attend?"

Gonna be a long career.

 

[Eccesignum]

As an aside, it's always a fun little feminist re-up moment when I tell someone I'm going to medical school in August and they immediately say back to me, "Oh, which nursing school are you planning to attend?"

Gonna be a long career.

Interestingly, you should hear some of the backlash our male nurses have experienced about their career choices.

 

[pageantry]

Interestingly, you should hear some of the backlash our male nurses have experienced about their career choices.

I bet. I don't mind being confused with a nurse. I'm just amazed how deep the gendering goes. Like they don't even hear the word "medical" when I say it.

 

[Spriteling]

Perhaps because I'm already in a male-dominated industry (software engineering) I've never heard any negative comments about my going into medicine. Everyone I've spoken to has been very supportive of my dream, and I've never heard any comments about kids/marriage/reproduction.

 

[yeshymae]

That must be frustrating to get feedback that you should strive for less than what you intend to do...

Question about having your kids in general though: is it more of a hypothetical "in principal, it would have been better not to have kids" or do you really think it was the wrong move? If so, why did you decide to have a second? I'm totally not judging and am just really curious, because I've always used the second kid as someone's decision that they like being a parent, whereas I figured if they only have one, it's a toss-up.

It's hard to say either or because I am 100% in love with the kids i have and I do try and be the best mother I can be. I am not a bad mother, i know my statement from my original post may seem like i am awful, but i am not. I think what it really means is that my goals and outlook in life is one of a person who has kids really late in life, or not at all. I would rather be traveling and or working on my carer goals than to be picking up kids from school at 3 pm and running snacks for the football teams and setting up play dates. That stuff just isn't for me. i do it, but it's just not for me.
The second kid was a contraceptive mistake by me. I kept going back and forth about having an abortion but ultimately, i waited until it waste late to have one so i can have that excuse. But my kids are definitely my world, and what sucks is that i always have to be explaining that to people because in people's eyes you are either a good mother, or you're a career woman.