The Indian Caste System

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Hmmm...meetlife.... :rolleyes: I do like talking abt myself alot huh? :laugh:
Well I guess now its only polite to give the thread back to sethi and the others...sorry we hijacked it... ;)

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sunny123 said:
Is marrying first cousins more prominent in Pakistan? I don't know the stats on first cousins marrying in S.Asia, nor whether it is more prominent in certain religious groups, or if it is a cultural thing.

And meet, Tina wasn't being angry, she was being polite ;) , as she always is.
Yeah, among Muslims.

Not among Hindus
 
sunny123 said:
Is marrying first cousins more prominent in Pakistan? I don't know the stats on first cousins marrying in S.Asia, nor whether it is more prominent in certain religious groups, or if it is a cultural thing.

And meet, Tina wasn't being angry, she was being polite ;) , as she always is.
;)
 
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Premedtomed said:
Yeah, among Muslims.

Not among Hindus
Nope.In Tamil Nadu,there is a hindu community where in its common to get married to first cousins,maternal uncles....
 
I guess it must be really really weird to get married to your first cousin....i mean the moment this love-boy-girl thing comes into your mind,all u would think of would be "which bro/sis am i going to marry" I swear it must be really stupid.....and as it is it narrows your options ;) (if u know what i mean)
 
meetlife said:
Nope.In Tamil Nadu,there is a hindu community where in its common to get married to first cousins,maternal uncles....
YEch!!! That is horrible to even think of...!
I thought india respected that relation...i mean with Rakhi..and all...the bro-sis relationship is considered sacred there!?
 
Premedtomed said:
Yeah, among Muslims.

Not among Hindus
See, I only heard about it on the news over here, but those were just isolated incidents, so I was not familiar with the stats. I know for a fact in Islam, that marriages usually take place at a younger age (early 20's). 6 of my classmates have gotten married already, about two years back, but they didn't marry their first-cousins.

I just can't see poeple getting married so early. I mean, for one, how will you support yourselves? When you hit 20, school becomes more important then ever. I have a sikh friend, and he got married at the age of 23 (last October). I asked him why?? He said why not? I asked him, "Aren't you still in school?? How will you support yourself? Is she gonna be living with you?" He told me that she's in shcool too, neither of them have a job, and they would each live in their own homes. I didn't understand this kind of marriage at all. I guess when you find the right match, some people want to make it official, so that no one else can come along and make a better offer. Ah well.
 
"Make an offer!!"
that's funny...and sad...at the same time....
But my sis is almost 24...and my parents are now starting to look for a match....Believe me...It IS hard....so hard ...there are so many parameters to look at...and then in the midst of it all...if you sit backa nd look at whats going on...it is a market place situation... alright! :rolleyes: ...sometimes it takes years to find a match....my mom and dad told her they would try theough summer...if not...then its up to her to find one in school or someplace.... she's old enough anyways.... and choosy...?heck yeah!! she's a little more than 5'6'', but won't even look at a guy less than 5'10"...she says that otherwise she won't be able to prance around in heels!! :laugh: wow...what a reason ;)
 
Honestly, getting married is definitely a big deal. People want to make sure they get it right on the first shot. You never know who you might be fixed up with, or even meet. Meeting someone who is 5"10 is fine and dandy, but you have to make sure this person is good for you and good too you.

Just this morning, my dad called back hom in India to talk with one of his cousins, and she started asking my dad if he knew of any "good" boys for her daughter. Parents, in our culture especially, really worry about finding someone. It really isn't just about a person with a 5/6/7 figure income, it is a factor to some extent, but a person's habits/personality/etc. should be just as important. Many of our elders just use the line, "Ohh he/she comes from a good family", and that alone should be enough to squash all your doubts. I mean come on, you won't be marrying the family.

The friend I mentioned who soaks up all the oil on her pizza, told her parents that if they were to introduce her to someone, they would be dating (yes she used the word dating) for at least 1-2 years. Just so they could know each other, and see if they really do compliment one another.

Soo much to consider....
 
Yeah sunny ofcourse...personality and compatibility is the most imp. thing to consider beyond looks, income, caste etc... But to get to that phase where you are ready to get to know the person and find out if this is it or not...well getting there requires going through the stage of the initial attraction...and that can be based upon just the general chemistry...or looks...or sadly income!

But at the same time you can't blame parents for looking for a guy from a good family, with a good job etc... they have reasons...ofcourse nowdays that doesn't work because the family does not have much of an influence on the individual's values due to growing independence ( good or bad? :rolleyes: ), and ofcourse the relationship will work better if the person has a job! And i think i read this in a forum before...but it's true...marrying within the caste does make things easy--everyone cannot hold together a relationship due to those differences--some people just don't want to...i don't think that's a horrible thing ......coz people just look for what makes them happy...ofcourse for other's it's the differences that make life more interesting....knowing something someway your whole life..and then meeting someone who can give you a completely diff perspective... :)

AH! and Increasingly people nowdays look for women with jobs...i love that :love: it's so encouraging...And also nowdays more parents let their daughters get to that stage--giving as much importance to their career (pronounced indian style :laugh: ) -- as they would for their son...
I'm so glad :) ;) :p
 
Well, hopeful, it's a brand new day.
Anyways, back to the issue of caste-system,

With India's economy getting wealthier, it will be possible to make a lot mre people richer.
Like A_Sethi said, capitalism will make good amount of difference.

But how do we change the mentality of the society as a whole? The rich won't mind, but the Indian social outlook is like "Log kya kahenge?" (what will people say (if we do this/that)?

This is a very big issue. Doctors can make a lot of difference, the ones that have the drive to undertake bigger projects (unlike Sunny :p ).
By focusing on the health issues of the lower caste people - offering them a sense of dignity and self-respect. Making them feel like they are an important part of the community.

Sadly, only the Hindu Nationalist organizations like RSS do this type of work i.e. make the lower caste people feel like they belong to the Hindu fold.
 
Incorporating caste systems into constitution is the biggest joke and its hurting india's growth more than anything today.....people with 75% (BC, BP) in HSC board gets into med school while one with 87% (open caste) goes to pharmacy school...and yes I've seen this happening
 
Hi, just adding my two cents here. I see it as another form of racism and here in the USA is manifested by sense of self-entitlement as well as extreme arrogance.

Just as a disclaimer, I wanna mention I'm not Indian;I'm from the US(raised up North, lived in the South for several years in a major medical city).
 
Its universal dialect to have poles and its human nature to create foreground/background in perception.. somebody must be low so that I must feel how high I am :love:.. unfortunately the story is that simple, even at meat-level! Dont think that cast system is the only one, everywhere there are "de fato casts".. in Turkey for instance during Ottoman Empire era, just like its European likes, there was a High Palace Circle and people.. later in republican time, there was an Elite Republicans circle, and people again! Now its fading but until recent a couple of years, there was a Moderns circle and pious people again!.. just because I began to use headscarf, I have been ousted from business world, albeit I was a high quality pro.. until this year, we were banned from getting in universities.. literally!.. there were security officers before the gates of the universities and we were not allowed to literally!, physically! "step in the campus area"!

How about US.. winner/loser, cool/not-cool, rich/poor, Manhattan/Bronx..

As long as we dont intellectually develop (I dont mean to be snob, I exactly mean to develop our minds), then we live at this meat-level quality.. actually as long as we dont develop, we maintain to be little emperialists.. and our fake "civilization"s evaporate right at this point! As long as there is a starving human in this planet, if we dig enough, we will find our own ancestors, looking amazingly just like ourselves..

We are more than this.. first because of this reason we dont deserve any type of cast system anywhere, not because of the relative perception with which we fake everybody, beginning with ourselves.
 
i agree with u. What I have been told that there is only one race in this world and that is humanity. i believe that too. I am from a higher caste and I have fallen in love with a guy from one of the lower castes (the untouchables). i am a medical student whereas he is a veterinary student and we are from malaysia where most of the indians here are quite modern but still not civilised enough to accept the low caste people into their family.
It is very hard for me to truly like a guy and this guy is everything I like in a guy. He is funny, smart and caring. My family is against this relationship, but what can I do? I do not believe in the caste system, but I am forced into this ridiculous system. How can you possibly judge a person based on his or her caste?

What should I do? Just forget about him and marry another guy and end up regretting my decision and having depression? That would just be equivalent to killing myself gradually. Why do indians still believe in this system? Why can't people be more open-minded and treat everyone equally? Other religions do not practise this discrimination. It's time for younger generations to change this perception because educated people should not practise stigmatisation.

please give me your thoughts on this matter. i could really use any advise or opinion. thank you.
 
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Another Secret for you ! In India Brahmins think that God has already decided them to be the one who Enters into the Heaven just because they have been born as Brahmins ... lolzzzzz :laugh:
 
i agree with u. What I have been told that there is only one race in this world and that is humanity. i believe that too. I am from a higher caste and I have fallen in love with a guy from one of the lower castes (the untouchables). i am a medical student whereas he is a veterinary student and we are from malaysia where most of the indians here are quite modern but still not civilised enough to accept the low caste people into their family.
It is very hard for me to truly like a guy and this guy is everything I like in a guy. He is funny, smart and caring. My family is against this relationship, but what can I do? I do not believe in the caste system, but I am forced into this ridiculous system. How can you possibly judge a person based on his or her caste?

What should I do? Just forget about him and marry another guy and end up regretting my decision and having depression? That would just be equivalent to killing myself gradually. Why do indians still believe in this system? Why can't people be more open-minded and treat everyone equally? Other religions do not practise this discrimination. It's time for younger generations to change this perception because educated people should not practise stigmatisation.

please give me your thoughts on this matter. i could really use any advise or opinion. thank you.

It's your life. If your parents don't want what will make you happy then that's their problem. Marry this guy and hope they grow up. It would be childish and pathetic if they held a grudge against you forever because of this.
 
What do young Indians think of the Indian Caste system ? In the UK, it unfornately thrives and we have intelligent med students (I'm sure other students as well) who still follow this malignant practice.

Early on in India, most Brahmins (priests) kept the ancient religious & philosphical knowlege of the Vedas and Upshinads to themselves. Divisions in society (caste) where produced, intially to run an organized and efficient society. The Brahin caste realized that enforcing such divisions by associating divisions with divinity, they could keep their job. Religious rites and ceromonies would always belong to an elite and kept in the family, assuring status and wealth.However such strict divisions have hindered India's progress. The constant invasions-from the Mughals to the British can be partlly attributed to the lack of unity in society caused by such divisions.

Even in the present day, an Indian person will look at a surname and be able to tell whether he/she is a high caste or low caste. Generally, high caste believe that they are the most educated and uphold moral virtues. But as Henry Thoreau says in Walden- The setting sun is reflected from the windows of the almshouse as brightly as from the rich man's abode.
High caste or Low caste-people should be judged on their actions. A high caste person steals, so does a low caste person. A brahim family prays and so
does a low caste family prays. We are the same- but its is what we do (our actions) that define us.

What does everyone think? Any staunch supporters of caste system, please give evidence of how it has helped India and if it has ever been a useful social system.

A Sethi

You are absolutely right.

The "caste system" is actually not a part of Sanatana Dharma (the pure and original form of what is now called Hinduism).

The common Hinduism as it is practiced now is actually a corrupted version of the original Sanatana Dharma ("Eternal Law/Order/Truth" is a rough translation from Sanskrit). Things like vegetarianism, sectionalism, and what is described today as the caste system are deviations and corruptions of the original path of Sanatana Dharma.

I come from a family that has, for a countless number of generations, followed and studied Sanatana Dharma - particularly the Shruti - aka the Vedas, which, according to Sanatana Dharma, are the words of the divine (Bhagavad Gita is considered smriti). The Vedas are the central pillars of Sanatana Dharma/"Hinduism".

According to the Vedas, there are four varnas (varna basically means aspect/characteristic of society). These are described as the Brahmin (learned/educated/scholar), Rajanya (royalty/princely/knightly/diplomatic), Vaishya (businessman/shopkeeper/merchant/trade), and Shudra (servant/farmer/labourer). This is merely a description of society and its groups. It is similar to how there are terms such as middle-class, upper-class, blue-collar, etc used to describe groups in America. There was nothing indicative of individuals being locked into castes based on birth. In fact, many respected gurus, including certain rishis themselves, were not born into traditionally brahmin families, but were regarded as brahmins after they gained great wisdom and whatnot. Notice there is no mention of "untouchable' or anything of that sort in the Vedas.

The reason the caste system of today developed is because of the way things started working. For various reasons, including diffulty of social mobility and corruption of people in power, the caste system developed into today's.

The Hindus who look down upon others based on birth do not know the true meaning of the path they claim to follow.

Long story short - the Vedas recognize that different people have different skills and qualifications, but it is not by birth, it is by guna (qualification) and karma (work). So if someone born of a shudra father becomes qualified and works as a brahmin (someone who seeks the truth, gains wisdom, and "does good"), he is a brahmin. In the same way if the son of a brahmin doesn’t have the qualifications of a brahmin or work as a brahmin then he is not a brahmin. There are so many examples of this in the Vedic scriptures.
 
Caste system is purely man made. Man and animals to like to dominate so we dominate someone to get the upper hand. To think caste or even class minded has nothing to do with intelligence. It is more often to do with one,s upbringing but even so despite one being brought up caste minded one can always listen to his or her own heart and follow your true heart. Incidentally to Indian,s living in western countries the Indian constitution was written by Dr Ambedkar who was an untouchable( the lowest caste). Not everyone can be tall or white or black or brilliant or fat or thin . We live in a world of mixture. We have to learn to accept one another . I do not believe in the bible although I am born a catholic completely but I have a very high regard for Jesus,s teaching,s as he said " love your neighbour as you love yourself". To be honest it is very very hard to do that.
 
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