The Allopathic Bunch

[turtleboard]

Hello. Many of you guys have probably seen my posts floating around here somewhere. I'm a transplant from the misc.education.medical USENET group.

Anyway this board is a decidedly osteopathic group, I realize, but I'm one of the few allopathic posers. I'd like to know how many of you dudes are also people of the allopathic cloth, just so maybe we can have our own little group thing on the allopathic forums.

I have a hunch of who among you are allopaths by training, but don't want to name names. So if you've got the guts to reveal yourself to the rest of the osteopathic world, we might just get somewhere.

Or you can email me...


Tim of New York City.
(I'm not an osteopathic student, but play one on the Internet)

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[Ian Wong]

I'm in. First year med at the University of British Columbia way over on the opposite coast.

Of course, there are no osteopathic medical schools here in Canada...

Ian, MS1
www.geocities.com/mdpremie

 

[Bren]

An allopath here!
At least I will be in August..

...you're not alone!

 

[Sheon]

Hey Tim, its me.

Sheon

 

[vyparik1]

Hey Tim....I thought you got to NYCOM...doesnt that stand for New York College of OSTEOPATHIC Medicine?? If it does then how can you be allopathic?

 

[Machie]

Can someone please explain the difference between osteopathic and allopathic? DO vs MD? Thanks!!

 

[Ponyboy]

Hi Tim,
I'm with you. I've seen your posts on the osteopathic boards. It does seem that there's almost a "reverse discrimination" at this site, doesn't it?

 

[turtleboard]

vyparik1, I don't attend NYCOM, but often recommend it to students. I think the school is excellent. I attend an state allopathic medical school in New York (SUNY Downstate Medical Center/Health Science Center at Brooklyn).

Machie, the differences between MDs and DOs are fewer than their similarities. There still exists a need for two systems of medical practice in this country, however, and therefore we have two medical professions. MDs and DOs share similar practice rights in all 50 states and US territories, share graduate education programs (residencies), and often share hospital facilities. The difference which still exist between the allopathic and osteopathic professions has more to do with philosophy of healthcare delivery. Once it was thought that Osteopathic Manipulative Therapy (OMT) was the main difference between an MD and DO, but as we've discussed on this board before, OMT doesn't cut it as the dividing line between MDs and DOs. This board still has not come to any conclusions on that issue. Perhaps you can learn more about the osteopathic profession from the osteopathic students (straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak).


Tim of New York City.

 

[turtleboard]

A total of five allopathic students thus far.

Good stuff.

How are you guys enjoying med school? It's a blast on my end of the continent. We're being hit pretty hard with the gastrointestinal/intermediary metablism block (we're organ systems based) after a relatively mild respiratory system block.

I'd like to know if you guys have doctor-patient/human behavior classes in med school. There's an ongoing debate here, and elsewhere in the country, as to its usefulness in the whole scheme of the education of a physician.


Tim of New York City.


Tim of New York City.

 

[Ponyboy]

School's fine.

As for the doctor-patient/human behaviour classes that seem to be the current fad in most medical schools: Being a patient-centered doctor comes from being a considerate person. Being considerate is a personality trait that can rarely be taught. Either you're a considerate person or you're not, you can't pick up that character trait from a lecture.

 

[turtleboard]

That seems to be the primary argument here against such courses.

It seems, however, that the AAMC/LCME is beginning to require that all medical schools have these courses in order to remain fully accredited (seven years).

Do you have a clinical portion of the course? We do, but the experience can be vastly different. While some learn how to do H&Ps, others are seeking the "patient's agenda" for the visit. It's a fairly inconsistent system.

Tim of New York City.

 

[HeatherR]

Hey. I'm a Canadian med student as well, and as Ian said "no osteopaths in Canada". I'm in third year, and I love it more and more every year.

As to the pt-dr courses; we had them in first and second year. I think they're great! In first year we mostly learned communication skills, but did learn the basics of history taking and a few physical exam skills. By the end of second year we learned all of the physical exam and history and became quite competent at present H&Ps - both written and verbal presentations. At the end of second year we had an OSCE exam (practical exam with simulated patients). Now that I'm a clerk, I can really appreciate having been taught how to take good H&Ps early on.

Best of luck to all you med students out there - both allopathic and osteopathic (not that there's any difference anyway)

 

[turtleboard]

Heather,

Do you think those doctor-patient classes merely helped you in practicing the skill of being able to communicate, or did it change your view of the patient and made you better able to empathize with the patient?


Tim of New York City.

 

[HeatherR]

Tim,

Those classes gave me the opportunaty to develop my own style of communication with sick people, before I was influenced by the "bad habits" of some staff people. It also got me used to seeing sick people in a supportive environment where I could express my concerns and feelings without being ridiculed or rejected. As well, it gave all the anatomy, biochemistry, genetics, that we were learning in class a lot more meaning. You can easily lose sight of the bigger goal when in the first 2 years of med school you spend all your time in lectures and libraries with your head stuck in a book. Pt-Dr. class let us see what we had to look forward to, once we'd learned the basics. Applying that knowledge to help the patients.

 

[avi newman]

i am a student at an allopathic medical school...i do not feel uncomfortable, or out of place, on this forum...first, i identify with anyone who wants to help the sick, second, i like the quality of the posts here, and third...well, the first two are enough!...my own family doctor, Dr. Lawrence Blank,DO, of blessed memory, was an osteopath...and a really good and immensely popular doctor...my problem is gleaning enough information and practice to be of use to patients...knowing how to manage electrolyte imbalances, for example, takes up so much of my time and energy that i do not really have time to speculate on what the differences between md's and do's is...wish me and my patients luck...soon i start a rotation in emergency medicine in a very busy trauma center!!!!....regards...avi


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avi newman

 

[turtleboard]

Avi,

I don't think anyone in medical school has time to worry who's the MD and who's the DO, and I'm no exception. I also don't feel uncomfortable and out of place on this forum, since I'm in the company of medical colleagues.

It's frustrating to be told you are something, when you're not. It's also very frustrating to have your posts constantly being misread, and lambasted for it.

Good luck on your ER rotation. Which hospital? New York has only a handful of Level 1 Trauma Centers (one in Manhattan, two in Brooklyn, two in the Bronx I believe, and I don't know how many are in Queens or Staten Island).

Tim of New York City.

 

[nicolette]

Great idea, count me in. I'm an allopath student to be, come this fall. Any advice for incoming students?

 

[bDOc03]

I have a question for Ian and/or Heather re osteopaths in Canada. I understand from your posts that there are no osteopathic schools in Canada. Are there many (any) D.O.'s practicing up there? If so is getting a license a problem?

I have always thought that I would like to spend some time up in BC. It is such beautiful country. I like to ski too! Even if I didn't stay there forever, I think that it would be a great experience. Yes it is my plan to have a rural (very rural) practice. That has been my plan from the onset.

Any information or advice would be appreciated!

Thanks and have a great week,


bDOc03
UHSCOM, MS-1

 

[bDOc03]

HEY.......I just became a senior member!!!!!
Yahooooooooooo!!!!

Sorry..I was so happy that I couldn't help myself!!

bDOc03

 

[HeatherR]

bDOc03,

I really have no idea about DO getting licenced in Canada. Sorry.

Heather

 

[turtleboard]

Nicolette,

Congratulations!

My one word of advice for the coming summer: relax.

Once you get in, there are some things you can pick up that may make life easier in both Gross and Biochem (at least they've helped me so far). I'll tell you about them later.

No need to worry...

For the remainder of the year, however, you may want to see if you can shadow some physicians at the school you've been accepted to (if it's close enough). That way you can get some early exposure to different fields and get an idea for what you wanna focus on when you're an MS1.

It might seem silly, but it's something you can do to put yourself on the right career track.

Congrats again.


Tim of New York City.

 

[nicolette]

My question of for Turtleboard and any other current med students:
I've been out of school for a few years. Hence, my question about what kind of preparation I might take to make the transition back to school a little easier. Of particular concern is that I've never taken a course on genetics or microbiology. Is this a big disadvantage? If you guys have any suggestions on what kind of "pre-studying" might be the most helpful to a first year med student, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks,
Nicole

 

[turtleboard]

Whatever ails you!

What a lot of people outside med school might recommend is to take Gross Anatomy, or study it yourself! I wouldn't recommend it because, unfortunately, much of the Gross Anatomy you'll learn on your own escapes you after a while (certainly before med school starts). And, sad to say, much of the Gross Anatomy you learn IN school finds its way out too!

But if you find that you've had problems with Biochem or Genetics, then you may want to head into that stuff early.

The typical first year courses will be physiology, histology, biochemistry, genetics, gross anatomy, biostatistics, epidemiology, and neuroscience/neuroanatomy. Microbiology, pathophysiology, histopathology, pharmacology, and all that stuff is second-year.

DON'T DO GROSS.

Tim of New York City.

 

[KimR]

I'm an allopath-to-be...trying to start in fall! Want to go to med sch in FL...no word yet. Would like to talk w/just allopaths, feel like on the "Everyone" board every thread becomes a DO vs. MD or someone posts a "What's a DO" question.

 

[turtleboard]

Well you're on the right side and in the right thread! Ask away or just shoot the breeze.

We've got a ton of allopaths on staff.


Tim of New York City.
(The Nice Guy Allopath)

 

[KimR]

Thanks...I enjoy this site so much. Has anyone read the book House of God? One of the medical schools I'm applying to has students read it.

 

[turtleboard]

Kim,

I've read it. Great book. Which school's having you read it? Have you read Mount Misery? That's the sequel to House of God by Sam Shem, but I haven't had a chance to pick it up, and I'm not a fan of sequels.


Tim of New York City.

 

[KimR]

Tim, the PIMS program at FSU has their students (MS1's) read it. I've heard from them that it is really good. I just bought it Monday. I didn't realize there was a sequel! I've read a couple great books about med education - A Not Entirely Benign Procedure by Perri Class, Walking Out on the Boys by Frances Conley, and White Coat by Ellen Lerner Rothman. I'm saving House of God for a plane trip I'm taking in a few weeks.

 

[turtleboard]

I tried reading those other med ed books, but they're kinda boring. House of God isn't on med ed, but it's damn entertaining.

It's also a very influential book! A lot of what you might hear on the wards is stuff that comes right out of the book (or perhaps it's the other way around).

Yes, there is a sequel. It's more of a continuation of the story. I won't ruin it for you, but you'll probably know what Mount Misery is about once you finish The House of God.


Tim of New York City.

 

[Tanya]

I am a part of the allopathic 'camp'... I am applying this summer. Whoo hooo!

While we're dicussing books, I would recommend "Intern Blues" by Robert Marion or "A Woman in Residence" by Michelle Harrison.

I have a question about choosing an allopathic school. Is it true that it doenst matter where you go to school because residency decides your career? Wont the school you attend decide what residency you will be accpeted to?

------------------
-Tanya
Class of '05 at ????
"Just like moons and like suns,
With the certainty of tides,
Just like hopes springing high,
Still I'll rise" -Maya Angelou "Still I Rise"

 

[turtleboard]

In the end, I don't think any patient chooses a doctor because he attended Harvard or avoids one because he attended Gonzaga Med School. But where you do your residency can affect your career in many ways.

I'm a firm believer that your med school does have an influence over where you do your residency. Not everyone will agree with me, however. But where you attend is probably not as important as grades, board scores, rotation/clerkship grades, recommendations, and connections.


Tim of New York City.

 

[KimR]

Tanya,

Did you like A Woman in Residence? I've been thinking about reading it!

 

[Tanya]

Yes, it was an excellent book! After graduating from medical school, the author, Michelle Harrison, works as a midwife. She then decides to enter a Ob/Gyn residency as a single mom. The book illustrates the stark conrast between midwifery and obstetrics. Also, Harrison, discusses the problems that arise when when one has values that are contrary to the medical establishment(feminism,liberalism)

------------------
-Tanya
Class of '05 at ????
"Just like moons and like suns,
With the certainty of tides,
Just like hopes springing high,
Still I'll rise" -Maya Angelou "Still I Rise"

 

[Dr NZ]

Hi I am a medical student from NZ, and as in Canada, there are not osteopahtic medical schools here....

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Dr NZ
UniOtago MD2

 

[Dr NZ]

There was a discussion a while back about the benefits of having Doctor-Patient communication papers in your medical course.
In NZ, medical schools place a great emphasis on this. I guess my conclusion is that it works for some but not others.

 

[Sheon]

What was "House of God" about? Was it more of a personal testimony or a story about a ward? Fill me in.

 

[turtleboard]

Sheon... It's about your impending medical career at Downstate.

Just kidding (I hope).

The House of God is about the life of an intern in Internal Medicine at one of the top hospitals in the country. I don't think there's anything more to it than that. It's entertaining, so that's good, but if you're looking for a deeper meaning, I don't think it's there.

It's told in the first-person, if that answers your question.

By the way, I've never been very good with literature and have always missed the big picture with certain books.


Tim of New York City.

 

[Golden Hour]

Bump.