So know that there are probably a ton of posts already on the TEEX "condensed" 10 or 15 week paramedic courses but I was wondering if anybody could give me some insight into my specific situation and whether a course like that would be a good option. I currently hold a BS in Biomedical Engineering and minor in biology with high GPA and will hold a MS in Materials Science and Engineering (again, high GPA) by the time that I attend paramedic school, possibly at TEEX. I think that TEEX may be a good option for me because 1) it is the cheapest out there 2) I need out of NJ for awhile 3) I have already been in a "traditional" paramedic class but had to quit due to health problems. 4) I really want to be a paramedic but don't have much time to do so, and 5) TEEX has a damn good name and reputation in the fire service. Please give me any insight into this program, i.e. is it legit or not? and whether it produces good medics, especailly like somebody in my situation.
TEEX Paramedic School
- Thread starter KD1655
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2004
- Messages
- 4,153
- Reaction score
- 1,979
BME + MS and you want to be a medic? Interesting.
Do you want to be a medic because you're looking to improve your CV for app commities ? Or because you want to be a medic ? Because the general consensus is that app comms generally fall into one of two categories. Either they don't care about EMS experience, or they are smart enough to realize that someone with a cert and no experience is not the same as someone who has 3+ years actual EMS experience under their belt. Either way, if it is just for med school apps, you'd be better served putting that time into MCAT prep.
That being said, if you actually want to be a paramedic, I would not recommend the TEEX program.
Yes, TEEX has a great reputation in fire circles, because they do fire training wonderfully. But TEEX only has a paramedic program because so many FDs require their entry-level firemen to have their medic cert. They teach a bare-bones curriculum, aimed at letting you barely squeak over the National Registry minimums. They are, to use a pejorative term, a "patch factory".
I'm not the only one who thinks so. Applicants to Austin/Travis county EMS and Williamson county EMS, two highly regarded services, are -automatically excluded- from the hiring process if they are TEEX grads.
I think the program is well-suited for what it was designed for; firemen who need a patch to get hired.
That being said, if you actually want to be a paramedic, I would not recommend the TEEX program.
Yes, TEEX has a great reputation in fire circles, because they do fire training wonderfully. But TEEX only has a paramedic program because so many FDs require their entry-level firemen to have their medic cert. They teach a bare-bones curriculum, aimed at letting you barely squeak over the National Registry minimums. They are, to use a pejorative term, a "patch factory".
I'm not the only one who thinks so. Applicants to Austin/Travis county EMS and Williamson county EMS, two highly regarded services, are -automatically excluded- from the hiring process if they are TEEX grads.
I think the program is well-suited for what it was designed for; firemen who need a patch to get hired.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2009
- Messages
- 430
- Reaction score
- 3
Thats the notion I'm getting also. You cover ACLS, trauma stabilization, advanced airway, and perhaps some scattered ALS content. Obviously meant for the FF/PM's who are more firefighter than paramedic and just need the p patch because they are applying for a spot on a paramedic engine
The last thing that I want to go to medic school for is to put it on my CV. When I am teaching EMT-B classes, I always get a chuckle out of the mostly kids that say they are going to EMT school to put on applications. Most of them have a hard time concentrating through the 120 hours of basic school, much less the 1000+ hours of medic school in these parts.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2009
- Messages
- 606
- Reaction score
- 0
However, you do realise the TEEX programme is less than 700 clock hours? Therefore, you have a difference of around 400 hours when comparing TEEX to your local programmes.
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2004
- Messages
- 949
- Reaction score
- 74
I would never recommend such an abbreviated paramedic course to anyone, regardless of past history or "qualifications." Simply put, you cannot learn what you need to know in that amount of time. My opinion...
Imagine if someone posted on here in support of a 2 year M.D. program, citing a stint as an RN and a failed experience at a regular medical school as support for the cause. "But the program is very popular in the 3rd world," they say!
EMS deserves better than these ridiculous paramedic mills pumping out sub par certificate-holders for the benefit of lackluster fire departments.
Imagine if someone posted on here in support of a 2 year M.D. program, citing a stint as an RN and a failed experience at a regular medical school as support for the cause. "But the program is very popular in the 3rd world," they say!
EMS deserves better than these ridiculous paramedic mills pumping out sub par certificate-holders for the benefit of lackluster fire departments.
700 hour medic program = fail.
embarrassing. don't think about moving anywhere after you finish such a class because every other state requires the NREMT-P written as their licensure test, and the Registry won't test you if your program is not accredited or does not meet national standards. A >700 hour program does not meet national standards.
Here is my advice: take a college level human anatomy and physiology class and then enroll in a real paramedic program that grants a degree or college credit towards a degree.
embarrassing. don't think about moving anywhere after you finish such a class because every other state requires the NREMT-P written as their licensure test, and the Registry won't test you if your program is not accredited or does not meet national standards. A >700 hour program does not meet national standards.
Here is my advice: take a college level human anatomy and physiology class and then enroll in a real paramedic program that grants a degree or college credit towards a degree.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2009
- Messages
- 606
- Reaction score
- 0
The TEEX course is accredited and graduates from this programme can take the NREMT written exam and psychomotor exam.
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2004
- Messages
- 949
- Reaction score
- 74
What I get from this is you are paying for 240 hours of rushed, compressed lectures which have been trimmed down to the absolute basics. I see no mention of ACLS, PHTLS, or PHTLS certs (which are required to obtain medical control pretty much anywhere, and are essential knowledge for the NREMT-P exams). No mention of an A&P component whatsoever. After that they kick you out on your own to do all of your hospital and ambulance clinical hours, for which they likely offer zero support or guidance. That portion counts for more than 60% of the advertised class hours!
If the NREMT allows candidates to sit for their exam after that, then shame on the NREMT.
KD1655, this is a bogus program and I think you should avoid it at all costs. When looking around, I think a good standard to apply is CoAEMSP accreditation. There are 15 medic schools in Texas that are accredited by that organization, so there should be one near you. Look for one that takes the time to train candidates properly, with a solid foundation in A&P, proper lab/clinical/internship integration, and reasonable classroom hours.
Accredited by who? The CoAEMSP or some bogus accrediting body in Texas? Id like to see their grads attempt to sit for the NREMT-P next year.
http://www.jems.com/resources/directory/Accredited_EMT_and_Paramedic_Programs.html
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2004
- Messages
- 949
- Reaction score
- 74
From the website it looks like the course is "recommended for college credit" by an organization called the American Council on Education (http://www.acenet.edu). I don't know how legit that organization is, and "recommended" for college credit doesn't seem like an overwhelming endorsement, but there it is. Like you said, the CoAEMSP is really the gold standard in EMT-P school accreditation, and this school does not have it.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2009
- Messages
- 606
- Reaction score
- 0
However, TEEX advertises that grads can take NREMT. Therefore, the potential exists for a 600 hour medic to pass and practice outside of Texas depending on the state he or she looks at. Rather scary, but I see a somewhat similar trend in other fields such as nursing. We have a roadrunner programme in my area of the sand box where people with any degree are able to transition from zero to RN in a year.
So does Texas. Hows that working out for y'all out in California? Most of your paramedics work for AMR a lizard hauler private ambulance service.
Let me shed some light on TEEX for you greviously misinformed folks. TEEX is a state agency, operated by the University of Texas A&M University System, located in College Station, TX on the TAMU campus. They are not as you say "patch factory" they adhere to the state mandated requirements for EMS training hours. If your looking for a "patch factory" GOOGLE "Emergency Consultants Inc."
If you want to go to a Junior College and spend two years getting trained by volunteer firemen by all means go ahead. Just remember to study those things you learned 18-24 months ago because you will need them on your national registry.
"Austin/Travis county EMS and Williamson county EMS, two highly regarded services" Who the heck is highly regarding them? Tell you what, come down to the Houston Fire Department where I'm sure you will run more calls in a shift than you fellas run all week. There must be a reason the Houston Fire Department sends their paramedics through TEEX.. Oh yea its because Houston Community College pumped out crappy paramedics.
NREMT-P STATS for 2009
National Pass Average - 84
Texas First Pass Average - 65
Texas Overall Pass Average - 79
TEEX First Pass Average - 66
TEEX Overall Pass Average - 78
And some local popular Community Colleges that offer 2 year Paramedic college atmosphere courses for Comparison
Blinn First Pass Average - 62
Blinn Overall Pass Average - 77
Lonestar College Cy Fair First Pass Average - 67
Lonestar College Cy Fair Overall Pass Average - 89
LoneStar College North Harris First Pass Average - 78
LoneStar College North Harris Overall Pass Average - 78
Here's the link, feel free to look through it. http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/emstraumasystems/JF10NatRegistryNumbers.pdf
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2009
- Messages
- 606
- Reaction score
- 0
Invalid comparison IMHO. Pointing to other bad schools to justify another is rather silly. If your benchmark is the NREMT, why not just spend a couple of weeks teaching people how to pass the test, then send them on their way? After all, pre-hospital care is nothing but a static cook book of Betty Crocker patient care recipes...
Shoot, why not go minimalist?
http://www.fd-doc.com/2000Hours.htm
Shoot, why not go minimalist?
http://www.fd-doc.com/2000Hours.htm
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2008
- Messages
- 431
- Reaction score
- 8
About TEEX and the rest of Texas' paramedic schools... well, I don't have a dog in that fight. But this thread has made me wonder what makes certain people "better" medics/nurses/docs than others. Dr. Truthan has a point, but he stretches it further and further as that article goes on.
If all we do is what EMS was founded to do--trauma and cardiac care, if my recollection of the history is correct--EMT-Basic + AED is all the evidence currently supports. Look at the Ontario ALS studies... it's hard to measure how much "better" that system is for its patients with ALS providers compared to how it was with BLS providers.
On the other hand, if the infamous 2 dudes jumped me and broke my femur with a baseball bat, that ALS can start an IV and float me off to the hospital with a boatload of narcs--that would be worth a lot to me. But would it be worth the extra cost to all the people on my insurance plan who had to pay for it? Especially when realistically, 80-90% of these kind of things are due to conscious choices by the accident victim?
I'd be interested to see how things have turned out in Iowa... I did some clinicals there as a medic student, and talked to a couple of "Iowa Paramedic" students. Those programs trained up to the old 1997-ish NREMT-Intermediate curriculum over ~400 hours, took that version of the registry test, and were referred to as "paramedics." I was a 1600 hour A.S. paramedic student, and our training was miles apart in depth and breadth... yet they could do all the "fun" stuff I could do, like ACLS, intubation, & IV's. I wonder if someone's found a difference in the care they provide vs. the "Iowa Paramedic Specialist" NREMT-P's in that state.
I don't know the answer. I definitely support more than 200 or 400 hours of training, but I don't know how I'd be able to show that >1000 hours is required to be a good ALS provider. A few of my 1600-hour classmates never passed the registry... would another 400 hours of clinicals helped them pass? Another 1400?
The main problem I'd have if I hadn't skipped out on EMS for medical school is that if some 20 year-old kid can provide the same quality of care I can for 1/2 the time (15-20 weeks full-time) in class... that makes it a lot harder to argue EMS should be paid what they're worth.
Ok, time for me to get back to the books, in an attempt to end up a decent physician.
Yeah, and while you look through it, why don't you look at Austin CC's first-time pass rate. 27 out 27 all passed it on the first try. 100%, same as it was the year before, and the year before that.
The NREMT-P exam should be a joke. Compared to what MD/DOs need to know, it's a ****ing paint-by-numbers kit. Hell, it's that even compared to what your average PA, NP, or RN needs to know. If you find it at all difficult, you shouldn't be taking care of people.
Lets dive a little big deeper and pull some more statistics.
EVERY Program With a 100% Pass Rate
4 - Alvin Community College
27 - Austin Community College
4 - Dalhart EMS Education Department
3 - Houston Community College
1 - Life Ambulance EMS Academy
Now I'm sure you will say take the program at Life Ambulance EMS Academy because of the pass rate and the student/teacher ratio.
Lets take a look at some actual colleges.
160 78% University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
4 50% University of Texas at Brownsville
47 87% University of Texas Health Science Center
By your reasoning these people are dumb asses correct? No? Maybe because the difficulty of the course exceeds the difficulty of the national curriculum.
Taking a Paramedic course in 10-15 weeks exponentially increases the difficulty, your absorption rate must be intense, however if 75% of the students are passing National Registry, it must be AS effective as a traditional community college program.
Your attempt to compare across programs with cohorts one seventh to one twenty-seventh the size those at the ACC program is laughable, and your assumption of what I would "say" is presumptuous. And didn't you just say that Houston Community College was "pumping out" bad medics? You are flagrantly contradicting yourself.
That is fallacious in several ways. For starters, without speaking to the underlying curriculum, the time-table in which it is presented is almost meaningless. I would hardly consider a 15 week EMT-B course intensive. I also wouldn't consider a 10 week course on how to say your ABC's intense.
A major part of my issue with TEEX is the timetable, yes. However, my main issue with TEEX is -what- they teach. Or rather, what they don't. I've seen printed syllabi from the program, and it's a bare bones, teaching-to-the-test outline of the material, with a smattering of skills training thrown in.
I'll be the first to admit that arguing about one paramedic program over the other on SDN is a bit silly. It goes without saying that even the most thorough, degree-conferring paramedic programs are still total bush-league next to MD/DO. But at the end of the day, you realize that what you are arguing for is that it is -Acceptable- for 240 hours to be the extent of your clinical education to be taking care of patients ?
That is literally a stone's throw away from "Well, I'm not a medical professional, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night." Why is it only in EMS that people are constantly arguing that we need less education?
I said it once, and I'll say it again. The NREMT-P exam is an absolute cakewalk compared to the NCLEX, MCAT, or USMLE. The fact that you are defending your school's 60% 1st-time passing rate by pointing to other schools doing just as bad or worse, goes a long way to explain why EMS is the red-headed stepchild of the medical community.
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2010
- Messages
- 149
- Reaction score
- 0
That is literally a stone's throw away from "Well, I'm not a medical professional, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night." Why is it only in EMS that people are constantly arguing that we need less education?
I said it once, and I'll say it again. The NREMT-P exam is an absolute cakewalk compared to the NCLEX, MCAT, or USMLE. The fact that you are defending your school's 60% 1st-time passing rate by pointing to other schools doing just as bad or worse, goes a long way to explain why EMS is the red-headed stepchild of the medical community.[/QUOTE]
Right on, I dont know anything about TEEX, but a simple google search turned up statements like this....
"they felt that HCC's program was too intense, so they went with TEEX. Bad to worse if you ask me................."
"The TEEX 10 week course was at one point being taught by a paramedic with less than 1.5 years since he got his card and less than half a year of experience as a paramedic. From what I hear, he's still there."
now in regards to NREMT you couldn't be more right. I'm not a medic only an EMT-B and before I took NREMT I had a look around on EMS websites and stumbled on threads about people failing multiple times EMT-B/I/P. I went in nervous about failing after reading these peoples posts. Come to find out this test was easier then any of the ones I was given in class. Long story short if you cant pass this test after 2 you should be required to take the whole class over again, they give you 3 chances(cringeworthy) which is to much IMO. I actually believe you get 6 tries total 3-24 hour refresher-3 (could be wrong). But one thing is certain I would not want a 10 week medic working on me/family or friends. Being on scene with one while working would make me nervous. If you come out a good medic, more power to you.
I said it once, and I'll say it again. The NREMT-P exam is an absolute cakewalk compared to the NCLEX, MCAT, or USMLE. The fact that you are defending your school's 60% 1st-time passing rate by pointing to other schools doing just as bad or worse, goes a long way to explain why EMS is the red-headed stepchild of the medical community.[/QUOTE]
Right on, I dont know anything about TEEX, but a simple google search turned up statements like this....
"they felt that HCC's program was too intense, so they went with TEEX. Bad to worse if you ask me................."
"The TEEX 10 week course was at one point being taught by a paramedic with less than 1.5 years since he got his card and less than half a year of experience as a paramedic. From what I hear, he's still there."
now in regards to NREMT you couldn't be more right. I'm not a medic only an EMT-B and before I took NREMT I had a look around on EMS websites and stumbled on threads about people failing multiple times EMT-B/I/P. I went in nervous about failing after reading these peoples posts. Come to find out this test was easier then any of the ones I was given in class. Long story short if you cant pass this test after 2 you should be required to take the whole class over again, they give you 3 chances(cringeworthy) which is to much IMO. I actually believe you get 6 tries total 3-24 hour refresher-3 (could be wrong). But one thing is certain I would not want a 10 week medic working on me/family or friends. Being on scene with one while working would make me nervous. If you come out a good medic, more power to you.
