Taxes: Yikes

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SkiPharmer said:
... I have a customer who is the biggest Republican who ripped all entitlement programs and he just got on Medicare this year and now he bitches how it's not funded enough and that people don't care about old people and we want them dead...
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You have just described nearly every person over 65. They worked hard there whole lives and hate the thought of every entitlement program. Their hard earned money should not be paying for some welfare queens umpteenth child, etc. Somehow SS and Medicare are fine though, the only problem with those programs are they are not funded enough. In fact Obama is the devil for trying to cut those programs (although I have not seen him actually do that, but why muddle the argument with facts).

Also, Meidcare does not require prior auths, I must be doing something wrong when I process the claim. After all, they've never had this problem before!

EDIT: TOP!
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njac said:
If you overpay it's not like government has some slush fund set up for it. It's just going to cause more paperwork and they're likely to send it back to you. Doesn't work like that.

I would totally give more money if I could say where it went.
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Not to mention, the argument is that everyone should pay more (or everyone over a certain threshold, sic), not that any one person is not paying enough.
 
All4MyDaughter said:
I don't want to hear any whining from those who CHOOSE to send their children to private schools and then cry about paying taxes to support public schools. No one is preventing them from exercising their child's right to a free public education. They've decided to purchase something that they see as better or at least different than public school education and need to live with that choice.

I pay taxes that support public transportation in my city. So I could, if I wanted to, ride the bus all over town for a very nominal fee. I don't know what that fee is, because I've never done it, but that's not the point. I'm not getting anything out of my tax dollars that I pay for public transit, so should I demand a refund of them to help me pay for the three cars my husband and I have chosen to own? :rolleyes:
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The public education system is so poor that many parents feel it is better to send their children to private school or home school. We just don't like being forced to contribute to such a substandard system.

Kansas you are spot on but it's hard to get through to these kids just coming out of the liberal bastions of society. Just give them about 10 years out here in the real world and they will catch on. No substitute for experience.

Playing the class warfare card is ridiculous. We have all worked very hard to get where we are and we deserve the rewards. America is still the land of opportunity for all.

A fair tax would be a flat tax. The same for all. Our tax system is too complicated and costly for individuals and business.
 
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njac said:
If you overpay it's not like government has some slush fund set up for it. It's just going to cause more paperwork and they're likely to send it back to you. Doesn't work like that.

I would totally give more money if I could say where it went.
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1. You dont get a say how your current taxes are spent so why put that condition on any extra that you sent it? Seems like an excuse instead of just doing it for the betterment of the country.

2. Per the Treasury website: A fund was set up in 1843 (read: been around for almost 170 years just for this purpose) for anyone to give extra money to the gubment. No extra paperwork required or any chance of it getting sent back to you. Here is a link with an address.

http://www.fms.treas.gov/faq/moretopics_gifts.html

Like was discussed above: I am not trying to be an ingrate. But, I will defend my position with facts or will not debate at all. The problem with all political discussion in the last few years is most of it is made up numbers. If we could all sit down, not yell and scream, and just work with facts, we could once again turn the US into the leader of the world.

EDIT: Plus, I do enjoy the basic debate a wee bit. :smuggrin: I find that it stimulates the senses and exercises the ol' gray matter.
 
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Kansas... These threads always end up the same. Welcome to SDN.

Unchained... My views have nothing to do with age or experience. And, I think I am too close to 40 to be considered a "kid." I have been a liberal, pinko/commie type for most of my adult life and career.
 
All4MyDaughter said:
Kansas... These threads always end up the same. Welcome to SDN.

Unchained... My views have nothing to do with age or experience. And, I think I am too close to 40 to be considered a "kid." I have been a liberal, pinko/commie type for most of my adult life and career.
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:thumbup: If you can admit it, are not ashamed of it, or dont let emotion overcome facts, then I will always respect it. And I dont just mean you personally being a liberal, I mean every different view held by every different person. Maybe some day the country can return to some sort of civil discourse even when we vehemently disagree.
 
Unchained said:
Welcome to the real world. Try marrying another pharmacist and Obama would call you rich and raise your taxes more. You now have to start paying your "fair" share even though 47% of Americans pay no federal income tax. Do your part and vote Republican.
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Do us all a favor. Move to Canada. You are a very selfish person. Who did you bribe to graduate from Pharmacy school? There is not a single factual statement in your ******ed little post. Why don't you get a job at Mickey D's and join the 47% that don't pay any taxes.

You are an ungrateful human being. As you can see people like you make my blood boil. Be thankful you make six figures and pay your taxes like a man. Get a job as a cop for 45K a year.

The median household income in the US is less and 50K. If you and wifey are both pharmacists, you make close to 250K. Now, you want to complain that the leaches making less than 50K should pay more so you can have a few more shekels. You are greedy turd.

Do you realize the national republican party almost single single handedly destroyed independent community pharmacy in the 1990's? The current capitalistic model of increasing productivity that turned pharmacy into piece work was a creation the "market forces" *****S like you wish to bring to pharmacy.

You have no idea how good you have. Sit down, shut up and pay your taxes. And be grateful you make kind of money that allows you to pay those taxes. I guarantee you, 15 minutes of working for a living at 47K a year and not paying those taxes will have you begging on your hands and knees to make that 250K and pay those taxes.
 
R2pharmD2 said:
Just to be clear, that was the point I was raising. We benefit directly from much of what we pay in taxes. It's not just forced charity.
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ohhh, woops! i quoted the wrong person, hah! i was trying to quote the person you were quoting. It is clear rereading the thread that we were in agreement
 
Old Timer said:
Do us all a favor. Move to Canada. You are a very selfish person. Who did you bribe to graduate from Pharmacy school? There is not a single factual statement in your ******ed little post. Why don't you get a job at Mickey D's and join the 47% that don't pay any taxes.

You are an ungrateful human being. As you can see people like you make my blood boil. Be thankful you make six figures and pay your taxes like a man. Get a job as a cop for 45K a year.

The median household income in the US is less and 50K. If you and wifey are both pharmacists, you make close to 250K. Now, you want to complain that the leaches making less than 50K should pay more so you can have a few more shekels. You are greedy turd.

Do you realize the national republican party almost single single handedly destroyed independent community pharmacy in the 1990's? The current capitalistic model of increasing productivity that turned pharmacy into piece work was a creation the "market forces" *****S like you wish to bring to pharmacy.

You have no idea how good you have. Sit down, shut up and pay your taxes. And be grateful you make kind of money that allows you to pay those taxes. I guarantee you, 15 minutes of working for a living at 47K a year and not paying those taxes will have you begging on your hands and knees to make that 250K and pay those taxes.
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So much for civil discourse. This is why nothing ever gets done. Side A says something the other side B doesnt like so side B calls side A a bunch of names and the roles reverse. Either post facts, solutions that can be actually measured or get out of the debate.

PS - I currently make only a smidge more than the 45k that you say is so bad. And I work upwards of 60 hours a week at a full time job and my 2 businesses (that I pay EXTRA self employment and property taxes on) all while attempting to get to pharm school. I have busted my ass for almost 20 years to get where I am at. So, when I graduate I should just be thankful that it took me over 20 years of my adult life to be able to "pay my taxes like a man"? To quote a great TV character: I dont think so Tim!
 
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Kansas Pharmer said:
So much for civil discourse. This is why nothing ever gets done. Side A says something the other side B doesnt like so side B calls side A a bunch of names and the roles reverse. Either post facts, solutions that can be actually measured or get out.
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That was civil. You should have seen the post before I cleaned it up.

You want facts:

It is greedy/selfish/narcissistic to for someone whose family income is 500% more than the median family income to complain that people making 1/5 of what he makes should pay more so he can have more himself.

As for name calling, if the shoe fits?

I would happily debate with you the relative merits of any particular position. But the idea that pharmacists pay too much in taxes has about as much factual support as Rick Perry's understanding of evolution.
 
Unchained said:
The public education system is so poor that many parents feel it is better to send their children to private school or home school. We just don't like being forced to contribute to such a substandard system.
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Please back this up with facts. Why is the system sub standard. Could it be that teachers are underpaid and under appreciated? The best and brightest minds don't go into teaching. We pay movie stars 20 million to make a movie and teachers start at 40K. The problem you describe has nothing to do with the our school system and everything to do with the values or lack there of in our society. The real reason is our society does not value anything that has to do with children. Go to medical school. Specialize. The lowest paying specialty, Pediatrics. Education? The lowest paid, Pre-School, the highest paid, college professors. Anything having to do with children is of no value in our society. Your understanding of our educational system could not found in a thimble if you had a scanning electron microscope.

Unchained said:
Kansas you are spot on but it's hard to get through to these kids just coming out of the liberal bastions of society. Just give them about 10 years out here in the real world and they will catch on. No substitute for experience.
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I will bet you anything, that I have more experience than you. I graduated pharmacy school in 1982, I have been married for almost 30 years, I have raised two children. That experience tells me that the uber rich do not pay nearly enough of their share the benefits they reap from our society.

Unchained said:
Playing the class warfare card is ridiculous. We have all worked very hard to get where we are and we deserve the rewards. America is still the land of opportunity for all. .
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You are the one playing the class warfare card. With your ******ed factoid about the 47% that don't pay any taxes. The accurate statement would be that 43% of taxpayers pay no Federal Income Tax. If you have any idea why, please explain it. Tax rates have nothing to do with this phenomenon.

Unchained said:
A fair tax would be a flat tax. The same for all. Our tax system is too complicated and costly for individuals and business.
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Fair, you wouldn't understand the difference between fair and unfair if it hot you on the head with steel club. Fair does not mean equal. It means fair. There is nothing wrong with a progressive income tax, where those that benefit the most pay more in taxes. Despite this crushing burden, there is not one reported case of a rich person voluntarily becoming a poor person to pay less taxes.

If you wish to have a constructive discussion of the tax code and how it is abused and advantaged by the wealthy, let's have at it.
 
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Old Timer said:
That was civil. You should have seen the post before I cleaned it up.

You want facts:

It is greedy/selfish/narcissistic to for someone whose family income is 500% more than the median family income to complain that people making 1/5 of what he makes should pay more so he can have more himself.

As for name calling, if the shoe fits?

I would happily debate with you the relative merits of any particular position. But the idea that pharmacists pay too much in taxes has about as much factual support as Rick Perry's understanding of evolution.
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Again with the name calling. And a statement calling someone names is not a fact, it IS an opinion.

So, let me help you out. Facts: 1. Many (not all) liberals think eveyone should be equal.

2. The current tax system is NOT equal, it taxes you more as you make more (e.g. 50k are taxed at 10% and 150 are taxed at 29%). To look at it from the earners standpoint, it is call the Law of Dimishing Returns. It is a basic concept in business.

3. I am not necessarily saying that I pay too much, all I am saying is I pay a lot more than most people. I can show this in my tax returns. I paid almost 15% last year for federal income tax. This is more than most people pay at 150k and down.

4. By stating that upper income people should pay more and lower income should pay less (by percentage not total amount) this can be rephrased as "From each according to his abilities to each according to his needs". But this phrase is not entirely accurate as used in the current times. Lets see if you actually know what it means.
 
Old Timer said:
Please back this up with facts. Why is the system sub standard. Could it be that teachers are underpaid and under appreciated? The best and brightest minds don't go into teaching. We pay movie stars 20 million to make a movie and teachers start at 40K. The problem you describe has nothing to do with the our school system and everything to do with the values or lack there of in our society. The real reason is our society does not value anything that has to do with children. Go to medical school. Specialize. The lowest paying specialty, Pediatrics. Education? The lowest paid, Pre-School, the highest paid, college professors. Anything having to do with children is of no value in our society. Your understanding of our educational system could not found in a thimble if you had a scanning electron microscope.

.
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but but they only have to work 9 months a year:rolleyes:
 
The bottom 50% of our country only has 15% of the nations wealth. Jon Stewart has a great rant on this. If you take half of EVERYTHING they own or earn, it equals the 700 B that Obama is trying to get by closing loopholes and modestly increasing the tax on those who earn 250K and above.
 
Kansas Pharmer said:
Again with the name calling. And a statement calling someone names is not a fact, it IS an opinion.

So, let me help you out. Facts: 1. Many (not all) liberals think eveyone should be equal.

2. The current tax system is NOT equal, it taxes you more as you make more (e.g. 50k are taxed at 10% and 150 are taxed at 29%). To look at it from the earners standpoint, it is call the Law of Dimishing Returns. It is a basic concept in business.

3. I am not necessarily saying that I pay too much, all I am saying is I pay a lot more than most people. I can show this in my tax returns. I paid almost 15% last year for federal income tax. This is more than most people pay at 150k and down.

4. By stating that upper income people should pay more and lower income should pay less (by percentage not total amount) this can be rephrased as "From each according to his abilities to each according to his needs". But this phrase is not entirely accurate as used in the current times. Lets see if you actually know what it means.
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I disagree.
I said he was selfish, greedy, and narcissistic. I think that matches his philosophy. If I call you Kansan, that's not calling you a name. If you say I am old that is not calling me a name. So stand by my statement that my description is fact and not opinion.

Next, you twist my argument into a pretzel. I fully understand the law of diminishing returns. But that does not preclude my argument that a progressive tax system is the fairest. I don't argue for a confiscatory tax rate for any income level. I merely argue that those that benefit (get the most) from this society should pay the most. I don't think everyone should get the same. As I pointed out equal is not identical. I treated both of the my daughters equally. I paid for their undergraduate education. It turns out I paid more for child two. Identical would mean I would have to give child one cash to make up the difference. Equal means I don't.

Your fourth point is where you show your intellectual dishonesty. While you decry name calling, in effect you call me a Marxist. Which in this society is several rungs lower than a mass murderer.

See what you fail to see is how much you benefit from the socicety you live in. Your ingratitude is what is so galling. You act like you are being short changed and the poor are taking all your money, unfairly.
 
lorain said:
but but they only have to work 9 months a year:rolleyes:
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SO that's 53K prorated. SO WHAT. Wanna trade and make 53K a year. You think you take abuse in a retail store. Try becoming a front line teacher.
 
Old Timer I respect your opinion. It was very eloquently conveyed. You haven't changed my opinion however. I never blamed the teachers for the state of our educational system. It is easy to see that it is not preparing our youth for the economic environment. The educational system which was greatly influenced by the early industrialists created obedient workers who were to work the production lines. Today creative thinking is still not rewarded and there is still too much concentration placed on standardized tests.

I think the largest injustice in the tax code is for corporations. It is true that they pay one of the highest tax rates in the world among the modern economies. This is why many have located their offices in Ireland, Sweden..etc. What is wrong is that the loopholes offset the high rate. GE is a prime example.

As far as the personal tax rate I don't think we could ever agree. You want a portion of society to assume a higher obligation to others. Many of this portion already do provide by creating jobs and investing. I think that penalizing those who become successful is not capitalistic. Many of them do contribute to charities already.
 
Old Timer said:
Your fourth point is where you show your intellectual dishonesty. While you decry name calling, in effect you call me a Marxist. Which in this society is several rungs lower than a mass murderer.

See what you fail to see is how much you benefit from the socicety you live in. Your ingratitude is what is so galling. You act like you are being short changed and the poor are taking all your money, unfairly.
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Only a couple of your comment bear answering so I will limit myself to them.

First, by quoting Marx, I actually was attempting to educate you (and anyone else following this now travesty of a thread). If you actually read the writings of Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, ad nausem, they all used a version of the infamous quote. But, what most people do not realize, only Marx used it as a redistribution idea and only in the context at the point of the final step of the final phase of government; communisim. All the rest of the people, (and Marx when talking about all other forms of government) actually used variations of the quote "The amount of labor given to society shall be given back to the producer". This means that more time or expertise that you give, the more you should be compensated. Therefore, if I go to a school, achieve a terminal degree in my field, then I should be compensated at a maximum level and people that do not do this should be given much less.

Second, I benefit from society the same amount as someone that only makes 20k a year. They are entitled to attend the same schools as me, get the same emergency response, drive on the same roads, drink the same water, etc. The only thing I do not like is my taxes subsidizing salaries of people that do not earn it themselves. Most entitlement programs were intended, in the beginning, to be fallbacks or emergency safety nets. They have now been bastardized into a "right" that is driving our country and society in the pits of hell and there should be accountability of every singe red cent that my government takes from me!
 
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Old Timer said:
SO that's 53K prorated. SO WHAT. Wanna trade and make 53K a year. You think you take abuse in a retail store. Try becoming a front line teacher.
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i was being facetious
 
Unchained said:
Old Timer I respect your opinion. It was very eloquently conveyed. You haven't changed my opinion however. I never blamed the teachers for the state of our educational system. It is easy to see that it is not preparing our youth for the economic environment. The educational system which was greatly influenced by the early industrialists created obedient workers who were to work the production lines. Today creative thinking is still not rewarded and there is still too much concentration placed on standardized tests.

I think the largest injustice in the tax code is for corporations. It is true that they pay one of the highest tax rates in the world among the modern economies. This is why many have located their offices in Ireland, Sweden..etc. What is wrong is that the loopholes offset the high rate. GE is a prime example.

As far as the personal tax rate I don't think we could ever agree. You want a portion of society to assume a higher obligation to others. Many of this portion already do provide by creating jobs and investing. I think that penalizing those who become successful is not capitalistic. Many of them do contribute to charities already.
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id like to see where the tax cuts for rich created jobs

i agree, tax code needs to be redone to close loopholes, but then that would put a lot of tax attorney and accountants out of work, so is that really a net +? not sure
 
Unchained said:
As far as the personal tax rate I don't think we could ever agree. You want a portion of society to assume a higher obligation to others. Many of this portion already do provide by creating jobs and investing. I think that penalizing those who become successful is not capitalistic. Many of them do contribute to charities already.
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Huh, I didn't realize the rich created jobs, I thought they paid employees for their time in order to increase their own wealth. This whole time I was looking at it all wrong. The rich shouldn't have to pay more taxes because without them, there would be no jobs. It's wealthy people, not our economic system, that creates job. What an insight!
 
To those of you on the left, speaking as a financial conservative I do not consider myself selfish at all and, in fact, is the exact opposite of what I want to be. What I do want is for all of society to grow and develop. Of course there are those who want nothing but power and control, but you will find them on both sides of the political spectrum and are generally outliers so could we agree to forget about them? I realize in the conservative philosophy, some people will acquire more resources than others, this is a sad fact but one that is impossible to avoid, what does happen though is the creation of more resources for everyone. From one of my favorite books, the main character gives a speech on the lines of, "how do you spread the laughter of a single child throughout all of society? It is impossible, instead just make more laughter."

The principals of conservatism can be demonstrated in nature. When life was first formed on this planet, much of it was exactly the same. Over millions of years, certain organisms found ways to become better suited to their environments, and in so doing, set forth a chain of events that spawned the great biodiversity and complexity we see today. The same thing can be observed in my front yard. The grass that is all of the same species is a relatively weak form of life in that it must be watered and fertilized to survive. The weeds in my "garden", however, are of many different varieties and they all compete with each other for resources and amazingly they all grow taller and stronger than the grass without requiring any external water or fertilizer.

My father always told me as a child that you never have to look far to find a person worse off than you, and thus you should always be grateful. I am grateful, but I also want more for myself and those around me and for that I am willing to work very hard. Is that, then, not the most noble form of charity?
 
Unchained said:
Kansas you are spot on but it's hard to get through to these kids just coming out of the liberal bastions of society. Just give them about 10 years out here in the real world and they will catch on. No substitute for experience.
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I responded to this earlier from my phone and didn't feel like typing out a big response, but dang... this type of argument pisses me off. I am not a kid. I have as much if not more life experience than you do. But even if I were 10 or 20 years younger, my views on life are the same now as they were back then. I've always felt this way about politics, social issues, etc and imagine that I always will. It is SUPREMELY ****ty to assume that people who disagree with you do so out of lack of "experience" or because they are "kids" or they just haven't "caught on yet." You are not some wise old sage who has learned the way and the truth of life through your vast experience or superior intellect. Like any of us, you are just a guy on the internet with an opinion. No more, no less.
 
I think I am going to bow out of the debate now, I have said my piece. I do want to thank all of the posters (I would name you all but I would inevitably miss someone and I dont want to do that :eek:). While some of us many never agree and others of us are in complete harmony, it is great that we have a place to post our thoughts and beliefs and have a discussion the most common sticking points.

Also, thank you to all everyone that has read or thought about this post. Remember, our country was founded on many principles but one of them (I think one of the most important) is that the government works for all of us. Therefore, they are accountable to us and we should all question how money is being spent, how legislation will affect us all, etc. And I say this to all people: Libertarians like me, pinko commies like All4 (sorry, couldnt resist. You said it first :p) or right wing conservatives.

Our country has been the best in the world for over 200 years but we are slipping. As has been pointed out here, the vast majority of us have the intelligence and the means ($$) to help keep our government honest. It is imperative that we do so...
 
No one likes to pay taxes but here're the facts:

(1) Millionaires and billionaires pay the majority of the income taxes but they certainly do not pay their income at the 35% bracket.
(2) The bottom 45% of population do not pay federal income tax

Should everyone pay their share of taxes? Sure! But taxing the bottom half won't solve the problem because they do not generate enough money.

You know who have greatly benefited from government programs? Health-care professionals like pharmacists. Medicare, Medicaid, Medicare part D, government student loans, government research grants, government sponsored residencies, etc. The list goes on and on.
 
Republican= work hard and you can make it mentality

Democrat= redistribution of wealth and under the current adminstration the promotion of socialism :thumbdown:

Whats all the fuss about, Republican all the way baby lol
 
Pillz said:
Republican= work hard and you can make it mentality

Democrat= redistribution of wealth and under the current adminstration the promotion of socialism :thumbdown:

Whats all the fuss about, Republican all the way baby lol
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This seems a great oversimplification, not necessarily rooted in reality.

I also have to question the huge dislike so many have for socialism. Many great Scandinavian countries operate with a socialist bent through the Nordic Model; it hasn't served them poorly, either. When needs like healthcare insurance are offered through means other than employment with a specific company, people feel free to leave these companies and create their own jobs. This seems like a good idea...especially if you've ever had to misfortune of attempting to purchase health coverage as an individual in the US.
 
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Pillz said:
Republican= work hard and you can make it mentality

Democrat= redistribution of wealth and under the current adminstration the promotion of socialism :thumbdown:

Whats all the fuss about, Republican all the way baby lol
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i find it funny when people call the current admin the S word....they arent even liberal, they rule by the center, as you can see by how many policies of previous admin are still continued..
 
You all make good points. The bottom line is that this country thrives under Republican rule and I don't think you can deny that.

The question at hand is more complicated, but I'm a simple person so I oversimplify :D

BTW, I don't think whats going on effects pharmacist salary range much. It impacts the people at both extreme ends really.

I was very open minded to this current admin, but they have ruined there chances to convince me to vote for them b/c they are full of fantastic ideas that never come true. This isn't just domestic issues I'm talking about but International policies as well. I have never seen an American President disrespected by a foreign countries prime minister. This is not my idea of a strong leader.

Please keep in mind this is my opinion about the most powerful country on this planet. I respect your opinion if it differs, its really an interesting topic most people are too afraid to discuss.
 
I became at peace the day I realized that democrats and republicans are just different sides of the same coin.

Remember the line from that song by The Who? "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
 
Pillz said:
You all make good points. The bottom line is that this country thrives under Republican rule and I don't think you can deny that.

The question at hand is more complicated, but I'm a simple person so I oversimplify :D

BTW, I don't think whats going on effects pharmacist salary range much. It impacts the people at both extreme ends really.

I was very open minded to this current admin, but they have ruined there chances to convince me to vote for them b/c they are full of fantastic ideas that never come true. This isn't just domestic issues I'm talking about but International policies as well. I have never seen an American President disrespected by a foreign countries prime minister. This is not my idea of a strong leader.

Please keep in mind this is my opinion about the most powerful country on this planet. I respect your opinion if it differs, its really an interesting topic most people are too afraid to discuss.
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youre talking bout a prez who gets disrespected by news hosts here by cutting him off b4 he can finish a answer

the climate these days is very bad
 
Rockinacoustic said:
I became at peace the day I realized that democrats and republicans are just different sides of the same coin.

Remember the line from that song by The Who? "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
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yea totally agree in this day and age
 
lorain said:
youre talking bout a prez who gets disrespected by news hosts here by cutting him off b4 he can finish a answer

the climate these days is very bad
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excuses excuses lol
 
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Old Timer said:
Do us all a favor. Move to Canada. You are a very selfish person. Who did you bribe to graduate from Pharmacy school? There is not a single factual statement in your ******ed little post. Why don't you get a job at Mickey D's and join the 47% that don't pay any taxes.

You are an ungrateful human being. As you can see people like you make my blood boil. Be thankful you make six figures and pay your taxes like a man. Get a job as a cop for 45K a year.

The median household income in the US is less and 50K. If you and wifey are both pharmacists, you make close to 250K. Now, you want to complain that the leaches making less than 50K should pay more so you can have a few more shekels. You are greedy turd.

Do you realize the national republican party almost single single handedly destroyed independent community pharmacy in the 1990's? The current capitalistic model of increasing productivity that turned pharmacy into piece work was a creation the "market forces" *****S like you wish to bring to pharmacy.

You have no idea how good you have. Sit down, shut up and pay your taxes. And be grateful you make kind of money that allows you to pay those taxes. I guarantee you, 15 minutes of working for a living at 47K a year and not paying those taxes will have you begging on your hands and knees to make that 250K and pay those taxes.
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To think that someone should "sit down, shut up and pay [their] taxes" "like a man" is completely ridiculous. Income taxes are voluntary. Yet, the IRS uses scare tactics or jail to make people pay their taxes. What a joke!

Move to China... where you can shut up and do as you are obligated.
 
Y'all a bunch of whiny ideologues.

How about the upper 1% pays more taxes because its practical. Without some sort of wealth distribution, money is always funneled to the top. That **** kills the middle class and aggregate demand. Without a strong middle class, you can't do ****. Collectively, anyway.

There needs to be a balance of power between corporate and governmental power. Because to the working stiff and the vast majority of citizens, it doesn't matter who has more power. Work all day, be taxed. Work all day, have your income siphoned off by those that own capital. Same ****, different master.

If you lived in France, I could see the validity of such a complaint. They send people out to do the laundry of pregnant women. That's over the top. But this is the US. The corporate powers and wealthy are the ones getting the aggregate welfare. What's the stat? The top 400 families own 50% of the wealth and even more of the capital? It's like they are our corporate government. And we pay them taxes in the form of profit generated from our labor. The effective tax rate for them is like 17%. Boohoo, poor them. And their effective tax rates have been decreasing for some time. In fact, its the lowest in the modern era under Obama. Who, by the way, isn't anything close to a socialist. His moves in office have included continuing a lower tax rate for the wealth class, introducing a literally fascist (as in the opposite of socialist) healthcare bill that will wind up giving more money and power to insurance companies and Big Pharma and less to something that isn't corporate power, etc, etc. He is George Bush, III. His policies are clearly right-of-center. But the US is so far out in lala land that apparently a view that includes any sort of rational, mixed economy is radically leftist.

But RIGHT NOW, there needs to be a correction away from the borderline fascist economics of the early 80s to today. People are seriously complaining about the rich paying like 40% in taxes? Back in the day, during the 40s, 50s, and 60s (i.e. the most successful economic periods in US history), they were taxed over 80%. And until Kennedy it was over 90%! Did the economy collapse? No. Was the middle class strong? Yes. Was the US economy strong? The strongest ever.

Of course its more complex than that. There are issues with free trade, the exploitation of third world labor taking away US jobs and, eventually, domestic aggregate demand...this has caused the decimation of urban centers...and so many other issues...an expensive healthcare system that is already mostly socialistic in workpace-based insurance fiefdoms, but everyone is too stupid to realize it...a giant military we don't need (why the antisocialists never want to dismantle that is beyond me. War is the most socialistic endeavor imaginable)...an overbearing justice system and expensive, wasteful "war on drugs"...there are so many effing problems with this country, its astounding when you step back for a second and think about it.

And none of it will ever be fixed because we are led by ideologues, not rational thinkers. These idiots govern based upon principle rather than practicality. That's got to be *****ic, correctable problem #1.

...anyway.

I guess my point is...I understand the fear of an overbearing government. Of communism. Of not having the freedom to work harder and earn more. But I honestly can't for the life of me understand why people fear government so deeply, yet SIMULTANEOUSLY embrace the concept of plutocracy as if it were a golden lifeline. You can vote for your government. You can't vote for who owns capital. What the hell do you think is going to happen when power and wealth concentrate even more without a progressive, rational taxation system proving some sort of social safety net? It would unravel into a sort of capitalistic feudalism. And some think we are almost at that point. But whether you know it or not, that's what you are advocating. "I'll take some feudalism, please."
 
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PharmDstudent said:
To think that someone should "sit down, shut up and pay [their] taxes" "like a man" is completely ridiculous. Income taxes are voluntary. Yet, the IRS uses scare tactics or jail to make people pay their taxes. What a joke!

Move to China... where you can shut up and do as you are obligated.
Click to expand...

So would it be preferable for individuals to build public goods like lighthouses, public health, and roads? How should those be paid for? Some kind of fee on every ship that passes by in the nighttime or every person that gets a food-borne illness? How would you ensure compliance?

Income taxes seem a bit more sensible. Besides, how many countries with no or incredibly low income taxes are places you'd really want to live?
 
PharmDstudent said:
Some people have won cases where they could not "show the law". I wish I had an example, but I haven't read about it in a while. Let me think about it for a minute.

Example: http://www.shreveporttimes.com/arti...attorney-acquitted-federal-income-tax-charges
Click to expand...

In that instance, a lawyer found a loophole and exploited it, which is the exception and not the norm. Come on now, you don't really believe that we aren't legally obligated to pay income taxes, do you? I figured you were just trying to rile people up a bit :laugh:
 
Rx MPLS said:
So would it be preferable for individuals to build public goods like lighthouses, public health, and roads? How should those be paid for? Some kind of fee on every ship that passes by in the nighttime or every person that gets a food-borne illness? How would you ensure compliance?

Income taxes seem a bit more sensible. Besides, how many countries with no or incredibly low income taxes are places you'd really want to live?
Click to expand...
I don't know how they're being paid for, ie where do the tax dollars actually go? Do you know?

I think it's a false assumption to assume that income taxes = a nicer country to live in, especially if we don't know where the money actually goes.
 
R2pharmD2 said:
In that instance, a lawyer found a loophole and exploited it, which is the exception and not the norm. Come on now, you don't really believe that we aren't legally obligated to pay income taxes, do you? I figured you were just trying to rile people up a bit :laugh:
Click to expand...
Yes. I don't think we are legally obligated to pay income taxes. Show us the law.

At this point, I have no problem paying "my share" of income taxes.
But at some point, I could have a problem with it. If "my share" jumps up to 50% or more, let's say, then I will probably work a lot less. If only half (or less) of my time is effectively compensated, what's the point?
 
Jon Siegel said:
The federal tax laws are contained in the Internal Revenue Code, also known as Title 26 of the United States Code, which is the compilation of laws passed by the Congress ("Title" basically means "Volume" when applied to the U.S. Code as a whole, so Title 26 is what might more casually be called Volume 26).
The Internal Revenue Code is the law that requires people to pay taxes (and yes, the Internal Revenue Code is the law -- for more detail on this point click here).
The most important statutory provision with regard to income taxes is section one of the tax code, 26 U.S.C. § 1. This is the section that actually imposes the income tax. It's very simply written. If you are unmarried, the relevant provision is § 1(c), which states:
26 U.S.C. § 1​
There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of every individual . . . who is not a married individual a tax determined in accordance with the following table: followed by a table specifying the tax rates on various income amounts. If you are married, you are covered by the similar provision at § 1(a). There are also a couple of other possible filing statuses covered elsewhere in § 1 (such as "head of household"), but the basic point is that section 1 imposes an income tax.
Click to expand...

Jon Siegel said:
The Internal Revenue Code is law. It was passed by the United States Congress. It does not come from the IRS. The IRS writes regulations that help implement the Code, but the Code itself was passed by Congress. Under the Constitution, if a bill is passed by both houses of Congress and signed by the President, it is the law. That's what happened with the Internal Revenue Code, so the Code is the law.
The Code is called the "Internal Revenue Code" because that's the name chosen for it by the Congress. (See section 7701(a)(29).) So it does have the word "Code" in its name. But it is, absolutely, law passed by the Congress.
Click to expand...

Good stuff.
 
Are you losers seriously arguing over whether or not the IRS can collect taxes?

I'd like to imagine that at some point this **** would have just been ignored as the ramblings of a crazy person.

See, this is the downside of the internet. Everyone now thinks they are an expert on everything and crazy conspiracy theories run rampant. And now everyone wants to be a member of some stupid group because they can't come up with their own ideas.

Lookie at me...I'm a libertarian...I'm a leftist...I'm a Republican...I'm a Democrat, I'm a whateverthe**** this, I'm a whateverthe**** that...

This is the conclusion all of you need to come to; if your entire world view can be described by a single word, it goes pretty damn far to show how complex of a person you are. You are as complex as an amoeba. You just consume bull**** and then regurgitate bull****. None of you actually think for yourselves. You're all a bunch of ideologues. Discussing societal issues is like talking to a preprogrammed computer anymore. I'm yet to hear an original, nuanced idea about anything in years. We just have ideologue bots. Gleefully proclaiming how the random things they believe are infallible. Rather than shaping their world view with evidence...they shape the evidence to their world view.

A pox on all of your houses. A POX!!!

Now everyone STFU and close this thread.
 
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