Switching To Radiology

[SeekerOfTheTree]

Tell me I am stupid for this...please. I'm a really bored fickle minded person at baseline. I've been out of ER for over 5 years. If I wanted to do radiology would it be:

1) Nearly impossible
2) Dumb
3) Anyway to work part time during residency so I still make money

Just looking for some input.

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[Clean7795]

Tell me I am stupid for this...please. I'm a really bored fickle minded person at baseline. I've been out of ER for over 5 years. If I wanted to do radiology would it be:

1) Nearly impossible
2) Dumb
3) Anyway to work part time during residency so I still make money

Just looking for some input.

Radiology is 6 years (intern + residency + fellowship), 5 if they accept your intern year. That's a hard pill to swallow once you're used to making real money working as an attending in any specialty.

 

[Eigenvector1]

It is not impossible. There are people who made the switch and are happy with their decision. But, make sure you know exactly what you are getting yourself into.

EM and Radiology have more in common than some people realize. Lack of control over patient volumes, private equity encroachment, lack of geographic flexibility, especially in major metropolitan areas etc.

Plus, who knows what the Radiology job market will look like in 6 years.

I am not discouraging you, but definitely do it only for the right reasons and not because you are bored of EM. Reading the umpteenth cancer follow up pet-ct or knee MRI or mammogram is just as tedious.

 

[Dave1980]

Tell me I am stupid for this...please. I'm a really bored fickle minded person at baseline. I've been out of ER for over 5 years. If I wanted to do radiology would it be:

1) Nearly impossible
2) Dumb
3) Anyway to work part time during residency so I still make money

Just looking for some input.

1) No
2) Yes
3) Tough because you need time off to study a lot. There is much more to know in Radiology compared to ER.

 

[Clean7795]

It is not impossible. There are people who made the switch and are happy with their decision. But, make sure you know exactly what you are getting yourself into.

EM and Radiology have more in common than some people realize. Lack of control over patient volumes, private equity encroachment, lack of geographic flexibility, especially in major metropolitan areas etc.

Plus, who knows what the Radiology job market will look like in 6 years.

I am not discouraging you, but definitely do it only for the right reasons and not because you are bored of EM. Reading the umpteenth cancer follow up pet-ct or knee MRI or mammogram is just as tedious.

Agree, I've met 2 former ER physicians now rads and they are very happy with rads. I've actually tried asking them about what made them leave and it seems to come down to a vague sense of loss of control and inability to derive satisfaction from their work. It never really made sense to me because in radiology the volumes are out of our control and the satisfaction is mostly intrinsic , which sounds like similar issues.

I guess the ability to sit down comfortably and have a coffee is a major difference maker.

 

[SeekerOfTheTree]

Agree, I've met 2 former ER physicians now rads and they are very happy with rads. I've actually tried asking them about what made them leave and it seems to come down to a vague sense of loss of control and inability to derive satisfaction from their work. It never really made sense to me because in radiology the volumes are out of our control and the satisfaction is mostly intrinsic , which sounds like similar issues.

I guess the ability to sit down comfortably and have a coffee is a major difference maker.

The intellectual satisfaction is not there. I don’t mean to sound like a prick saying that but the problem in ER(forgive me my colleagues for I have sinned) but after a bit it’s all routine. If it is something medically complex you admit and let them figure it out. Most of the time the rashes at 4 am or the ankle sprain, belly pain, belly pain, belly pain, vomiting all get old.

I know everything gets old after awhile but it would be nice to just not deal with the whiny patient. To get in to radiology going through the match again and getting recommendation letters seems impossible. How is this whole remote work for radiology? Does it happen a lot or not as much?

I always though I could do ER till 60; now I wonder if I could make it past 50. It gets taxing physically after awhile.

Than for answering my questions on here everyone.

 

[Dave1980]

Agree, I've met 2 former ER physicians now rads and they are very happy with rads. I've actually tried asking them about what made them leave and it seems to come down to a vague sense of loss of control and inability to derive satisfaction from their work. It never really made sense to me because in radiology the volumes are out of our control and the satisfaction is mostly intrinsic , which sounds like similar issues.

I guess the ability to sit down comfortably and have a coffee is a major difference maker.

and WFH now for rads

 

[Dave1980]

I know everything gets old after awhile but it would be nice to just not deal with the whiny patient.

You should have been a radiologist!!!

Do you work at an academic center where you can hit up someone in the rads department for a letter?

Are any of your med school friends/classmates radiologists? If someone I knew was a good person came to me with your story I would write them a letter in a hearbeat.

WFH is becoming increasingly common. A huge portion of the market is no telerad which is all WFH and many practices are moving that way to increase radiologist satisfaction.

 

[Dave1980]

Another thought...did you ever actually express any interest in radiology in med school?

it would be great to get a letter from a rad at your school saying you struggled between choosing rads and er and ultimately chose ER. how they know you would be a great rad and support your move.

also are you an MD or DO and are you a strong candidate?

 

[SeekerOfTheTree]

Another thought...did you ever actually express any interest in radiology in med school?

it would be great to get a letter from a rad at your school saying you struggled between choosing rads and er and ultimately chose ER. how they know you would be a great rad and support your move.

also are you an MD or DO and are you a strong candidate?

I did when I was in medical school and at that time the old radiologists in our department said stay away because the market was bad. I didn’t keep in touch with any of my friends that became radiologists.

I’m an MD and was a pretty good candidate. 244/242 step 1 and 2. Thanks for answering so many of my questions.

 

[Dave1980]

I did when I was in medical school and at that time the old radiologists in our department said stay away because the market was bad. I didn’t keep in touch with any of my friends that became radiologists.

I’m an MD and was a pretty good candidate. 244/242 step 1 and 2. Thanks for answering so many of my questions.

Get in touch with those radiologists you knew in med school and ask for a quick phone call.

You aren't a med student. You are a clinical colleague who made it through residency and 5 years of practice. They should be able to hook you up with the letters you need.

You will be taking a huge financial hit and your quality of life will drop for the next 5 years. But if your heart is set on it I wish you luck!

 

[SeekerOfTheTree]

Get in touch with those radiologists you knew in med school and ask for a quick phone call.

You aren't a med student. You are a clinical colleague who made it through residency and 5 years of practice. They should be able to hook you up with the letters you need.

You will be taking a huge financial hit and your quality of life will drop for the next 5 years. But if your heart is set on it I wish you luck!

That financial hit is the only thing that will set me back. I wonder if I can moonlight. Thanks for your advice.

 

[Dave1980]

That financial hit is the only thing that will set me back. I wonder if I can moonlight. Thanks for your advice.

Wouldn't count on much.

As a rads resident you will only get 4 weeks off a year and will be working M-F 8-5 with scattered weekends and overnights.

You need to do a lot of studying on the weekends. Almost nothing you learned in med school and residency will matter if you go into Rads and there is so much to learn in Radiology. I think it will be vastly different than your ER training.

So you are basically going to miss out on like a million dollars of earnings if you pursue this. On the other hand you will likely make more as Rads attending compared to an ER attending but will have much more job stability and job options

 

[SeekerOfTheTree]

Wouldn't count on much.

As a rads resident you will only get 4 weeks off a year and will be working M-F 8-5 with scattered weekends and overnights.

You need to do a lot of studying on the weekends. Almost nothing you learned in med school and residency will matter if you go into Rads and there is so much to learn in Radiology. I think it will be vastly different than your ER training.

So you are basically going to miss out on like a million dollars of earnings if you pursue this. On the other hand you will likely make more as Rads attending compared to an ER attending but will have much more job stability and job options

What’s the oldest residents you guys have seen? Would programs not pick older people coming back for a second residency? Just curious. I would miss out closer to 2 mil during that time of earnings. The financial hit is the hard part. Would lead me to definitely be more satisfied.

 

[Dave1980]

What’s the oldest residents you guys have seen? Would programs not pick older people coming back for a second residency? Just curious. I would miss out closer to 2 mil during that time of earnings. The financial hit is the hard part. Would lead me to definitely be more satisfied.

we had no non trads or second time residents at my program.

you would definitely take somewhat of a hit being older and being this is your second residency (meaning no medicare dollars) but im sure you could get a spot somewhere if you were flexible.

honestly if you take a 2 million dollar hit over 5 years it means you are making 450k a year. I would not leave that job to become a rad. I was under the impression ER docs in this day and age were making more along the lines of 250k a year.

 

[SeekerOfTheTree]

we had no non trads or second time residents at my program.

you would definitely take somewhat of a hit being older and being this is your second residency (meaning no medicare dollars) but im sure you could get a spot somewhere if you were flexible.

honestly if you take a 2 million dollar hit over 5 years it means you are making 450k a year. I would not leave that job to become a rad. I was under the impression ER docs in this day and age were making more along the lines of 250k a year.

Most cities that’s the right amount. I got pretty lucky. Money is good. I just gotta fill my mind with something else. I’m running out of Reddit threads at this point to read. The work is busy but it’s like a drive thru busy.

You make a lot of valid points. it would be a huge hit. Thanks for talking with me.

 

[Cognovi]

What’s the oldest residents you guys have seen? Would programs not pick older people coming back for a second residency? Just curious. I would miss out closer to 2 mil during that time of earnings. The financial hit is the hard part. Would lead me to definitely be more satisfied.

I saw someone graduate radiology residency 35 years after graduating medical school, so that's about age 60.

 

[GadRads]

I met an ENT attending (probably <5 years in practice) during my interviews. He matched at a decent program. However, given your current earnings, the decision to pursue radiology should be worth all the opportunity costs.

 

[SeekerOfTheTree]

I saw someone graduate radiology residency 35 years after graduating medical school, so that's about age 60.

How do PDs see us old guys I'm curious? Everyday at work lately does seem like a drag. The vague complaints, the silly complaints, the unnecessary visits...

 

[Dave1980]

I met an ENT attending (probably <5 years in practice) during my interviews. He matched at a decent program. However, given your current earnings, the decision to pursue radiology should be worth all the opportunity costs.

should be worth or shouldn't be worth?

it might be a wash in the end but it is close.

 

[guytakingboards]

How do PDs see us old guys I'm curious? Everyday at work lately does seem like a drag. The vague complaints, the silly complaints, the unnecessary visits...

Not a PD but have heard some anecdotal things about a mid-career guy who went back to do fellowship after many years as an attending. There's pluses and minuses to the situation.

Pluses of an older trainee:
-More life/work experience. Hopefully, the trainee by now knows how to navigate a professional environment and play well in the sandbox. I've seen a lot of residents not view residency as a professional job.
-Desire. Presumably if someone is willing to make a such a big change in life, they're going to take the job seriously.
-Practical knowledge. Especially coming from another specialty, you hopefully know what's relevant to the clinicians.

Minuses of an older trainee:
-Independent streak. Having been an attending, it could be very difficult to go back to being a trainee at the bottom rung. Harder to take feedback and criticism. Harder to get them to do menial tasks.
-Mindset. Switching from do'er mode back to learner mode can be tough. Cracking the books again, learning all that super obscure stuff again. That's not a big deal for someone fresh out of med school.
-Age difference to co-residents. Not a huge deal but it makes a difference if your co-resident is at a different stage of life and has nothing in common with you. Makes the residency experience slightly different.
-Age difference to attendings. Have heard about junior attendings relatively recently out of training have issues a trainee older than them. Something like the trainee treated them more like their colleague, which obviously they're not, or were interpreted to be insubordinate to the younger attending.

Every situation is unique but those are some of the things I've heard. Granted, people switch specialties not uncommonly so obviously it doesn't go poorly in every case.

 

[radsresident-US]

It’s doable. Seen a couple of people who have been in practice for other specialties in other countries, however they were immigrants coming to America and needed to do an American residency program to practice. I guess they didn’t like their specialty in home country so swapped in the process. The optics of it are obviously different since it’s part of the immigration pathway, but they were both older people who had a lot of the issues being talked about. No financial issues/hit though.

Medicare won’t fund the second residency but big academic places may still take you on the excess funding they may carry. It does make you less competitive if you were looking at top tier.

 

[Taurus]

I say go for it. You probably can have a longer working career in radiology than in EM. I plan to work til I’m 70.