Surprise babies

Toofscum

Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
May 23, 2005
Messages
77
Reaction score
0
I am always surprised when I hear people--on this board or wherever--talk about having surprise babies or unexpected babies, especially when it complicates their marriages or schooling. Don't these couples always use birth control correctly in order to best plan out their children? I would think that most smart couples would never leave such an important consideration to chance. I know occasionally the condom breaks or whatever, but seeing as so many of my friends have had this happen (who are having problems now balancing work and their PhD or med school programs), I am confused.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Yeah. Well.

All that intelligence devoted to their graduate programs, and not enough leftover for adequate birth control. There are only so many IQ points. I guess people are bad at multitasking. ;)


How about extremely obese women (400lbs) who don't know they're pregnant until month 8? It happens, I tell you!

F*cking "surprise!" Eh?

p.s. I wonder if your friends were stupid and irresponsible (no condom, "pull out", misplaced diaphragm, missed pills, patch came off, etc) despite their graduate intellects. Sex does stupid things to people. Didn't they study that once, in some medical journal...? ;)
 
Toofscum said:
I am always surprised when I hear people--on this board or wherever--talk about having surprise babies or unexpected babies, especially when it complicates their marriages or schooling. Don't these couples always use birth control correctly in order to best plan out their children? I would think that most smart couples would never leave such an important consideration to chance. I know occasionally the condom breaks or whatever, but seeing as so many of my friends have had this happen (who are having problems now balancing work and their PhD or med school programs), I am confused.

Have you ever taken birth control pills? Is it easy for you to remember to take a pill every day, at the same time, for years? I've had many friends complain that they have a lot of trouble remembering it everyday, on good days (as I do, no matter what strategy I have tried). Throw in erratic schedules (residency with call, vacations, weekends, etc), and it's even more difficult. Sure there are rings, patches, IUD's, condoms, etc., but those don't work for everyone and often cost more (for example, my crappy health insurance while in med school wouldn't cover anything for an IUD -- which can cost a few hundred dollars, plus the doctor visits.)

I myself was an accident. I don't think I complicated my parents' lives more than a child ordinarily does. Keep in mind, "surprise" and "accident" doesn't always mean the child is unwanted. I'm sure if you ask many of these parents, even though the baby came at a less than opportune time, they would not change a thing.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
No, I've never taken birth control pills exactly for the reasons you mentioned. Too much trouble to remember to always take them. However, I do use condoms exclusively as my birth control method of choice. I guess I feel like if you can't be counted on to remember your bcp, then why not choose a more reliable and obvious method (like condoms, easy to remember to put one on before intercourse starts). It seems like an easy step.
 
Toofscum said:
However, I do use condoms exclusively as my birth control method of choice.

Condoms are not as good as OCPs for preventing unwanted pregnancy, even when used ideally. Some studies put their yearly effectiveness into the mid 80%s. When used with spermicide (a separate cream, not condom with spermicide) effectiveness gets into the high 90s, still not as good as ideal use OCPs (note that non-ideal use OCPs are still very good).

Just thought you should know...
 
jamie said:
I myself was an accident. I don't think I complicated my parents' lives more than a child ordinarily does. Keep in mind, "surprise" and "accident" doesn't always mean the child is unwanted. I'm sure if you ask many of these parents, even though the baby came at a less than opportune time, they would not change a thing.

:thumbup: Sometimes life throws you curveballs, and you have to just do your best. Sometimes those curveballs can be the best things that happen to you.

Though, it should be said that not all couples who have "accident" babies have that "oh, I don't regret a thing, I'm so happy it turned out this way" attitude. Many harbor resentment or regret for years, and continue to see the child as a mistake. How awful it must be to grow up in such a home...

I don't think I can agree with how tough it can be to take a pill, or look down before having sex to see if the patch is still where you put it, or remember to put on a condom. Millions of patients take many medications on a rigorous schedule (and many of these are elderly folks who can't remember last night's dinner menu). If you take a pill it's your responsibility to stay on the schedule.

Isn't that why they come in the packs, all labeled for you? So you don't have to go, "Gee, did I take it this morning, or not...?"

I remain confused about this issue, too. Biologically, a lot of things have to happen in concert for a couple to get pregnant, especially if they're really trying not to.

Some deviant chicks secretly throw away doses of the pill or pinprick condoms just to get pregnant. Not that these deviants would necessarily be prevalent in young professional populations, but you never know. The world is a funny place; personal integrity has nothing to do with money, brains, or a doctorate degree.
 
As I'm trying to debate this whole whether to apply to med school issue, and also being a married woman, I have to wonder why so many women in medicine have 3 or more kids and also complain about how hard it is to manage everything. Of course it's hard with one or two kids--I can't imagine 3 or more and being a wife and doctor.

So I guess I'm always confused as to why mommd types would want to make their lives harder by having so many kids. And many of these mommds also say that some of their kids were a surprise. So I guess I'd just logically conclude that if you're a woman in medicine you'd do your hardest (maybe even doubling up on pills and condoms) to not get unexpectedly pregnant. That's what I will sure to be doing if I end up in medicine. I know sometimes it's hard to conceive when you want to conceive, but surely it's not hard at all NOT to conceive when you're dilligent about putting on the condom, using spermicide as well, etc.

My husband and I personally use condoms and also the fertility charting method so it's double protection--I don't have sex at all during my ovulatory time and use condoms exclusively when I'm not fertile.
 
Toofscum said:
know sometimes it's hard to conceive when you want to conceive, but surely it's not hard at all NOT to conceive when you're dilligent about putting on the condom, using spermicide as well, etc.

My husband and I personally use condoms and also the fertility charting method so it's double protection--I don't have sex at all during my ovulatory time and use condoms exclusively when I'm not fertile.

I'm not a doctor yet, but I still think your thinking is flawed on two levels. First, if you haven't been using spermicide, you're using two methods that are decent at best (and I don't even think the timing method is decent), but not perfect. That's probably still not at the level of ideal or maybe even unideal usage OCPs. So your personal birth control method puts you at a higher risk for pregnancy than hormonal or IUD protection. I'm a big advocate of IUDs, so if you don't want to remember to take something, just get one-- it's the #1 form of contraception in the world for a reason. The poor effectiveness of condoms for preventing pregnancy is even more pronounced in my age group. Some studies have found that even with "ideal use" condom protection in a couple that lives together (marriage or not), that the rates of pregnancy for 20 somethings and younger is greater than 25%.

Also, ideal usage OCPs still have a rate of 0.4% - 1% a year of pregnancy if you average sex once a week, and this is one of the best methods. That means at most 1 in 100 women who use OCPs ideally will still get pregnant with steady intercourse. Women who have their tubes tied still get pregnant.

My point? You seem to put blame on women who get "accidentally" pregnant because they weren't properly using their birth control. Unfortunately, even with ideal use of excellent methods, they still get pregnant. You may wish to rethink your own methods.
 
Toofscum said:
I know sometimes it's hard to conceive when you want to conceive, but surely it's not hard at all NOT to conceive when you're dilligent about putting on the condom, using spermicide as well, etc.

My husband and I personally use condoms and also the fertility charting method so it's double protection--I don't have sex at all during my ovulatory time and use condoms exclusively when I'm not fertile.

I'm not a "mommd"- I'm a wife to a med student, so it's a bit differnet for me as I'm not the one missing school when the baby arrives.

Baby #1 for us- I was on the pill- took it consistently and correctly. We used condoms too...and I was conscious of my cycles so I tried to be extra careful around ovulation. We also lived in different cities and when we were together, it was 4-5 days before that fertile time! Things happen. You can't be too careful.

Even if you plan the perfect time for pregnancy and a recovery period- things still come up. Both of our daughters were born early and I was on bedrest on and off. You can't factor these things in when you pick the "perfect time"

All that said, yes "mistakes" happen- even when you are careful. In reality though, the majority of people do not use birth control (whatever method, pills, charting, pull out, condoms, spermicide) consistently or correctly all the time. Nothing is 100%.
 
Toofscum said:
I am always surprised when I hear people--on this board or wherever--talk about having surprise babies or unexpected babies, especially when it complicates their marriages or schooling. Don't these couples always use birth control correctly in order to best plan out their children? I would think that most smart couples would never leave such an important consideration to chance. I know occasionally the condom breaks or whatever, but seeing as so many of my friends have had this happen (who are having problems now balancing work and their PhD or med school programs), I am confused.


is that when a method of birth control says that it is 99% effective, it doesn' mean that only 1% of couples using said method will have a baby. It Really means that on the 100th trial EVERY one of those couples is likely to be expecting. We unexpectedly had our 2nd 15 months after our first (planned pregnancy) was born. It took me a long time to figure out how it could have happened. :rolleyes:
 
A question for you lovemydrhubby,

I was wondering if you still lived in different cities after your first pregnancy. My partner just got into medical school in another city and we're talking about options if we have kids while he's in school. We're now working out if we will move to the same city where he's in school, if he'll take a year off, etc. So we're trying to get as much advice and as many ideas as possible to figure out how to make this work.

Thanks for sharing your story!

Ladybugstar.


lovemydrhubby said:
I'm not a "mommd"- I'm a wife to a med student, so it's a bit differnet for me as I'm not the one missing school when the baby arrives.

Baby #1 for us- I was on the pill- took it consistently and correctly. We used condoms too...and I was conscious of my cycles so I tried to be extra careful around ovulation. We also lived in different cities and when we were together, it was 4-5 days before that fertile time! Things happen. You can't be too careful.

Even if you plan the perfect time for pregnancy and a recovery period- things still come up. Both of our daughters were born early and I was on bedrest on and off. You can't factor these things in when you pick the "perfect time"

All that said, yes "mistakes" happen- even when you are careful. In reality though, the majority of people do not use birth control (whatever method, pills, charting, pull out, condoms, spermicide) consistently or correctly all the time. Nothing is 100%.
 
Whoopsie lovemydrhubby,

I see you shared your story in another thread. Thanks!

Ladybugstar
 
We met during his undergrad yrs- I moved to another city to start college. Then I left college since I had a baby and being a mother was more important to me at the time. So we only lived in different cities for that 1 yr (his 4th yr undergrad, my 1st yr of college).

Without throwing the baby into the mix, our plan was for him to attend med school near me since there were quite a few good options.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
So, if birth control can't be "counted on" to protect against getting pregnant and you don't want to get pregnant (because you're in school) does that mean you should wait to get married? I've been told that getting married means you have to be ready to start a family. If you're not in a place where that would be possible, because you don't make enough money, are too busy, are in school, etc. then you're not ready to get married. Any thoughts? (These aren't my argument, but ones I've heard and was wondering what some of the married med students would say).
 
Cuteasaurus said:
So, if birth control can't be "counted on" to protect against getting pregnant and you don't want to get pregnant (because you're in school) does that mean you should wait to get married? I've been told that getting married means you have to be ready to start a family. If you're not in a place where that would be possible, because you don't make enough money, are too busy, are in school, etc. then you're not ready to get married. Any thoughts? (These aren't my argument, but ones I've heard and was wondering what some of the married med students would say).

The major flaw I see with that argument is that it assumes that the point of marriage is to be able to have babies. I think marriage is about the two people it joins, and no one else. Your level of readiness to share the rest of your life with another person is completely independent of your financial readiness to have a child, or any other extraneous factor.
 
What people really want is just some support..."you can do it, etc"...most people that get pregnant even if not "planned" were not entirely closed to the idea. You have to decide what is important to you and not worry if others think you are crazy. We have five children. Ages 7, 6, 4, 3, and 1!!!! Husband is 3rd year in U.S. hospital. We went to foreign school, have moved all over, and the kids have been troopers.


Toofscum said:
I am always surprised when I hear people--on this board or wherever--talk about having surprise babies or unexpected babies, especially when it complicates their marriages or schooling. Don't these couples always use birth control correctly in order to best plan out their children? I would think that most smart couples would never leave such an important consideration to chance. I know occasionally the condom breaks or whatever, but seeing as so many of my friends have had this happen (who are having problems now balancing work and their PhD or med school programs), I am confused.
 
I have 3 children - ages 8 1/2, 6 1/2 and almost 2. I had trouble conceiving my first daughter and suffered two miscarriages before she was born. Daughter number two was completely planned and I became pregnant as soon as we tried. My son was about as big a surprise as you can get. My husband and I were using the same method you are...fertility charting and condoms (I can not take OCDs). Sometimes life throws you a curveball! I always have regular cycles and we had used this method for years before having children and since my daughters were born. I had no reason to expect a pregancy at all...no condom breaks, forgetting to use it, etc. Surprise!

I am very blessed to have all of my children and can't imagine life without my son. Would life be a little easier in med school without them...probably, but hey keep me balanced and there is nothing better to come home to. I am lucky to have a very supportive husband and family nearby. So far I seem to be doing a good job of being a med student and a Mom. If that every changes and I have to make a choice, my first priority is always my family.
 
I hear about surprise babies all the time after couples have been married for a few years. Things just become relaxed, and it's easy to forget to take your pill once in a while. I've been on BC for 5 years now, and 1-2 times a year I do forget to take my pill, especially since I take it before my bedtime. There are many times where I'm almost asleep and pop up in bed, realizing I forgot to take my pill. With med school or other big life changes, you can become distracted. I don't think it's about intelligence, it's just like forgetting to take your vitamin everyday. I've often told my BF to just set his watch alarm for me so I don't forget. He needs some responsibility in this too!

Toofscum said:
I am always surprised when I hear people--on this board or wherever--talk about having surprise babies or unexpected babies, especially when it complicates their marriages or schooling. Don't these couples always use birth control correctly in order to best plan out their children? I would think that most smart couples would never leave such an important consideration to chance. I know occasionally the condom breaks or whatever, but seeing as so many of my friends have had this happen (who are having problems now balancing work and their PhD or med school programs), I am confused.
 
can adultery explain the problem? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:






























Just kidding...... ;)
 
I think all of this talk of birth control methods such as the pill being unreliable is being blown a bit out of proportion. When used perfectly (meaning you take it at the same time every day), combined oral contraceptives are about 99.6% effective. I agree that this could be difficult for some people to do, however; I myself am crappy about remembering to take pills every day, which is why I have used depo (injectable contraceptive) for >9 years. As long as you get your injection every 12 weeks or so--4 whopping times a year I have to think about my fertility--depo is almost as effective as permanent sterilization at preventing pregnancy. If you don't like depo or pills, there are also patches and rings, which require weekly and monthly use, respectively. If you don't want hormones, use condoms (which, if used correctly with every act of intercourse, are very effective) or get an IUD. If cost is an issue, GO TO PLANNED PARENTHOOD or your county health department, where I guarantee you will be able to obtain free condoms and affordable birth control.

Of course, there will always be that 0.4% of people who get pregnant even when using hormonal birth control correctly, but the reality is that most unplanned pregnancies happen because the parents didn't use contraception--period. I have worked in a reproductive health clinic for over 7 years, and have seen countless unplanned pregnancies in that time. In the vast, vast majority of these cases, pregnancy occurred because people were, simply put, being irresponsible. People who say they "use condoms" because they do so 75% of the time, or that they are "on the pill" because they take it 5/7 days a week, are not using their birth control method correctly and therefore if they become pregnant it is not because their method failed, but rather because they did not make it a priority to use it as instructed. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but I firmly believe that control over our reproduction is one of the greatest advances of the past century, particularly for women, and it saddens me that so many fail to take advantage of this incredible freedom to plan our families that our grandmothers (and for some of us, our mothers) didn't truly have. Unplanned children can of course be a joy for some, but more often it results only in unhappy choices for individuals and for society. Bringing another human being into this world is the largest responsiblity most of us will likely face, and it shouldn't be undertaken lightly. After seeing the cavalier attitude so many take towards reproduction, I feel I better understand why so many children (and later, adults) in our society are such a mess--when so many of their parents act as if pregnancy just happened to them like getting the measles, how much of a sense of responsibility can we expect them to pass on to their children? I am obviously referring here less to committed couples who are ambivalent about having children, but who are able to love and care for a child if pregnancy occurs, and perhaps aren't as rigorous about using birth control for that reason, than I am to people who have absolutely nothing to offer a child and don't particularly want one, but nevertheless practice lackluster (if any) contraceptive use. Given the effectiveness and availability of reliable birth control today, I don't think it is unfair to view pregnancy as a choice people make, either actively or passively (again, recognizing that there are some exceptions like rape and true contraceptive failure, but that these ultimately comprise a tiny fraction of unintended pregnancies). To qoute a bumper sticker, "a world of wanted children would make a world of difference." :thumbup:
 
Hey Mistress S, I hope to be an OHSU'er like you in a year or two!

FWIW, my baby sister (20 now), almost as smart as me :D had a "surprise" baby a year ago. She was on OCPs, took them perfectly, and had going-away-to-college sex with her BF of 3 years. Missed a period, took a pregnancy test, negative, missed another period, another negative test, and was still on pills so figured she was just screwy, and besides, she was in an all-girls dorm at a conservative Christian college, so thought for a while her cycle was just thrown off by all the female pheromones circling the halls. Never felt sick or anything. Didn't really think anything was amiss until her clothes started to feel tight despite having LOST 6-7# from running so much.

She went to her best friend's mom, an OB-GYN, who confirmed she was pregnant but thought "maybe" 14 weeks by exam (this is an OB with 15 years experience). Went for the sonogram the next day--26 WEEKS!!! And I kid you not, she still fit into her size 2 jeans and had a flat tummy.

But it was weird--almost immediately, as soon as the pregnancy was recognized, she filled out fast. Caleb arrived not 3 months later, was adopted by wonderful parents (the most agonizing decision I have ever been a part of), and my sister left the hospital in her size 2 jeans. Sickening, I know. It's an open adoption and we get to visit him every few months. My sister is completely at peace with her decision and back in college, pre-med, determined to be an OB-GYN. I have no doubt she will be.

We all tend to forget that 99.3% effectiveness with PERFECT USE for hormonal contraceptives means that 7 women out of 1000 will get pregnant in a year. I had a patient get pregnant on NuvaRing a few months ago--and yup, with perfect use. I think that every once in a while, despite our best scientific efforts to control every aspect of our lives (fertility included), we are not in ultimate control unless we choose not to have sex.

It's interesting what another poster said about "if you get married, you should be prepared to have children"...huh. My ex-husband and I got married agreeing that we most likely would NOT have children by choice. Years went on and he changed his mind but I didn't. Ultimately, it came down to my selfishness: I didn't want to have HIS children (but that's another story).

That was a really painful turning point to realize I could hem and haw and go on being married to him and deny him something he really wanted but I didn't or let him go. OMG it hurt more than you can possibly imagine unless you've been through it. Divorce is more like death than anything else I could fathom--in fact, often I thought it would have been easier if he had died (he threatened suicide more than once; eventually I gave up and said hey, I can't do this anymore, I can't fix you).

Oops, didn't mean to spout off personal stuff in there. I do find it interesting though that in all our 13+ years together (seriously, we started dating when I was 15), in how many thousands of episodes of intercourse, we never had an accident. Does that mean it wasn't meant to be? Dunno. But it's always made me wonder....

Lisa




Mistress S said:
I think all of this talk of birth control methods such as the pill being unreliable is being blown a bit out of proportion. When used perfectly (meaning you take it at the same time every day), combined oral contraceptives are about 99.6% effective. I agree that this could be difficult for some people to do, however; I myself am crappy about remembering to take pills every day, which is why I have used depo (injectable contraceptive) for >9 years. As long as you get your injection every 12 weeks or so--4 whopping times a year I have to think about my fertility--depo is almost as effective as permanent sterilization at preventing pregnancy. If you don't like depo or pills, there are also patches and rings, which require weekly and monthly use, respectively. If you don't want hormones, use condoms (which, if used correctly with every act of intercourse, are very effective) or get an IUD. If cost is an issue, GO TO PLANNED PARENTHOOD or your county health department, where I guarantee you will be able to obtain free condoms and affordable birth control.

Of course, there will always be that 0.4% of people who get pregnant even when using hormonal birth control correctly, but the reality is that most unplanned pregnancies happen because the parents didn't use contraception--period. I have worked in a reproductive health clinic for over 7 years, and have seen countless unplanned pregnancies in that time. In the vast, vast majority of these cases, pregnancy occurred because people were, simply put, being irresponsible. People who say they "use condoms" because they do so 75% of the time, or that they are "on the pill" because they take it 5/7 days a week, are not using their birth control method correctly and therefore if they become pregnant it is not because their method failed, but rather because they did not make it a priority to use it as instructed. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but I firmly believe that control over our reproduction is one of the greatest advances of the past century, particularly for women, and it saddens me that so many fail to take advantage of this incredible freedom to plan our families that our grandmothers (and for some of us, our mothers) didn't truly have. Unplanned children can of course be a joy for some, but more often it results only in unhappy choices for individuals and for society. Bringing another human being into this world is the largest responsiblity most of us will likely face, and it shouldn't be undertaken lightly. After seeing the cavalier attitude so many take towards reproduction, I feel I better understand why so many children (and later, adults) in our society are such a mess--when so many of their parents act as if pregnancy just happened to them like getting the measles, how much of a sense of responsibility can we expect them to pass on to their children? I am obviously referring here less to committed couples who are ambivalent about having children, but who are able to love and care for a child if pregnancy occurs, and perhaps aren't as rigorous about using birth control for that reason, than I am to people who have absolutely nothing to offer a child and don't particularly want one, but nevertheless practice lackluster (if any) contraceptive use. Given the effectiveness and availability of reliable birth control today, I don't think it is unfair to view pregnancy as a choice people make, either actively or passively (again, recognizing that there are some exceptions like rape and true contraceptive failure, but that these ultimately comprise a tiny fraction of unintended pregnancies). To qoute a bumper sticker, "a world of wanted children would make a world of difference." :thumbup:
 
Hey primadonna,

Good luck with your app when the time comes! I'm really excited about starting at OHSU. It's a great school.

There are a couple of sad stories in your post, but it sounds like things turned out for the best, more or less. I don't mean to sound all preachy and high-horsey, so I apologize if I came off that way. I just see a lot of irresponsibility when it comes to sex in my job, and rarely do I see people who are truly being responsible with birth control use face an unintended pregnancy. That's not to say it doesn't happen though, and I tried to acknowledge that in my post. My stronger words on this subject were not aimed at those unlucky individuals overburdened with fertility who, despite perfect use of effective contraception, end up with an unplanned pregnancy. We can all cite anecdotal stories of friends and relatives who became pregnant due to apparent birth control failure, but I think we can also agree that these cases do not make up the majority of unplanned pregnancies (which was the point I was trying to make).
 
Oh, agreed. And I never have actually asked my sister "are you SURE you were taking the pills absolutely perfectly, the same time every day, never missed a pill, yada yada yada...." At the time it hardly seemed relevant.
I'm a PA now in family medicine. I see it all too. I saw a 15 y/o last week who was being abused by a 37 y/o "friend of the family". I wasn't the one to take her statement or do her sexual abuse exam--we have a whole separate county clinic for that, and she had an appointment the following Tuesday. She was in my office with her stepmom to find out how to get on some BC just in case "God forbid" anything like that were to happen again. It's so wrong on so many levels...but do you think I was going to talk her out of contraception? Hell, NO!
Talk her INTO it was more like it. She didn't want to take anything, and it's such a muddy issue because I think the last thing this kid needs is to feel like she has NO power over her own body. Yikes.
OK, I really should find something else to do on Friday night. I miss my boyfriend....
Lisa

Mistress S said:
Hey primadonna,

Good luck with your app when the time comes! I'm really excited about starting at OHSU. It's a great school.

There are a couple of sad stories in your post, but it sounds like things turned out for the best, more or less. I don't mean to sound all preachy and high-horsey, so I apologize if I came off that way. I just see a lot of irresponsibility when it comes to sex in my job, and rarely do I see people who are truly being responsible with birth control use face an unintended pregnancy. That's not to say it doesn't happen though, and I tried to acknowledge that in my post. My stronger words on this subject were not aimed at those unlucky individuals overburdened with fertility who, despite perfect use of effective contraception, end up with an unplanned pregnancy. We can all cite anecdotal stories of friends and relatives who became pregnant due to apparent birth control failure, but I think we can also agree that these cases do not make up the majority of unplanned pregnancies (which was the point I was trying to make).
 
I know this probably sounds like a troll post, but things like this are why I'm glad I'm bi and have the choice. No opposite-sex partners while finishing education. Period, end of story. Makes it easy.
 
Huh. Unfortunately for me women just don't do it. I miss my boyfriend....
;)
Lisa

thirdunity said:
I know this probably sounds like a troll post, but things like this are why I'm glad I'm bi and have the choice. No opposite-sex partners while finishing education. Period, end of story. Makes it easy.
 
thirdunity said:
I know this probably sounds like a troll post, but things like this are why I'm glad I'm bi and have the choice. No opposite-sex partners while finishing education. Period, end of story. Makes it easy.
But don't forget that you still have to worry about STD's! I once had a 15yo girl ask me about different types of birth control (this was in a sexual abuse facility) and I gave her a spiel. Then she said she was "pretty sure" she was gay and she didn't have to worry about "that stuff." So I said, "Probably, but you still need to know about STD's". And got out the book (pictures speak louder than words). I don't think she'd ever heard the words "dental dam" come out of a doctor's mouth... Told me later she was very glad I told her everything and wasn't squeamish. :laugh:
 
Mistress S said:
In the vast, vast majority of these cases, pregnancy occurred because people were, simply put, being irresponsible. People who say they "use condoms" because they do so 75% of the time, or that they are "on the pill" because they take it 5/7 days a week, are not using their birth control method correctly and therefore if they become pregnant it is not because their method failed, but rather because they did not make it a priority to use it as instructed.

You made alot of valid points... and I agree those people that SAY they use it perfectly...there is always human error. You can't be there to see this perfect use.

So, that said. You got me there. I wrote above that our first daughter was conceived while I was on the pill and we were using condoms. The pill- well there was one day around her conception I took the pill very late. It was an extremely valid reason/one of a kind situation (so you aren't sitting here wondering- it was 9/11 and I lived in NYC.) I guess I will never know if it was "just meant to be" or if that once day messed with my entire fertility!
 
How can you get pregnant on the pill and using condoms at the same time? That just seems like the unlikliest possibility. If the condom doesn't break, I don't understand how that could happen.

Quite frankly, it makes me afraid to have sex--if you can conceive despite taking every imaginable precaution.
 
No method (besides abstinence) is absolutely perfect. There are plenty of "birth control" babies out there. We probably SHOULD be afraid to have sex unless we're prepared for the possibility, however remote, of pregnancy.
Lisa

Toofscum said:
How can you get pregnant on the pill and using condoms at the same time? That just seems like the unlikliest possibility. If the condom doesn't break, I don't understand how that could happen.

Quite frankly, it makes me afraid to have sex--if you can conceive despite taking every imaginable precaution.
 
Toofscum said:
, I have to wonder why so many women in medicine have 3 or more kids and also complain about how hard it is to manage everything. Of course it's hard with one or two kids--I can't imagine 3 or more and being a wife and doctor.
QUOTE]

There are so many responses I would like to make, but let's start with some simple issues...exactly how many "Women in medicine (who) have 3 or more kids" have you personally spoken to who complain about managing everything? First of all, don't make blanket assumptions. Second, I don't care if you are a physician, cpa, plumber or stay at home parent, you are going to talk about how hard it is to "manage everything." If you actually had children, you would understand this. There is no such thing as "imagining" (correctly, that is), what it is like to have children. I have to laugh at all of my husband's early 20-something classmates who complained about putting in 10 hour days during clinical rotations, or having to get out of bed before 8 am. HA!!!! What is the difference between their complaints about "trying to manage" everything, and a parent's?

Be very, very careful about trying to "figure out" or "understand" the so called mistakes of other people. That's a sure-fire way to end up pregnant, with or without condoms.If you really are educated, you understand the failure rates of contraceptives, and take all the "failure" stories to heart. Tubal ligation even has failure rates for goodness sake.....I was personally told I could never concieve without fertility medication or in-vitro. After two clomid + injection babies, we were done.....except that I'm now holding our four-week old surprise. How about my uncle who had THREE vascectomies before it "took"? Don't want kids? Abstain or get a hysterectomy. End up having children? I challenge you to go three weeks without discussing how hard it is to "manage" everything.
 
Woohoo, you're awesome!
Congrats on the babe. (I'm a little bit jealous...but just a little bit.)
lisa
p.s. I'm STILL trying to figure out how my mom managed seven of us and still remembered all our names...and always knew who the guilty one was.... :rolleyes:


Be very, very careful about trying to "figure out" or "understand" the so called mistakes of other people. That's a sure-fire way to end up pregnant, with or without condoms.If you really are educated, you understand the failure rates of contraceptives, and take all the "failure" stories to heart. Tubal ligation even has failure rates for goodness sake.....I was personally told I could never concieve without fertility medication or in-vitro. After two clomid + injection babies, we were done.....except that I'm now holding our four-week old surprise. How about my uncle who had THREE vascectomies before it "took"? Don't want kids? Abstain or get a hysterectomy. End up having children? I challenge you to go three weeks without discussing how hard it is to "manage" everything.[/QUOTE]
 
primadonna22274 said:
Be very, very careful about trying to "figure out" or "understand" the so called mistakes of other people. That's a sure-fire way to end up pregnant, with or without condoms.If you really are educated, you understand the failure rates of contraceptives, and take all the "failure" stories to heart. Tubal ligation even has failure rates for goodness sake.....I was personally told I could never concieve without fertility medication or in-vitro. After two clomid + injection babies, we were done.....except that I'm now holding our four-week old surprise. How about my uncle who had THREE vascectomies before it "took"? Don't want kids? Abstain or get a hysterectomy. End up having children? I challenge you to go three weeks without discussing how hard it is to "manage" everything.
[/QUOTE]

Yep. Even if there's a 1% failure rate with perfect use, somebody's still got to be that 1%.

Stuff like this is why I won't have hetero sex w/o it being a very clear-cut "leading to marriage" type relationship... I'm thinking engagement... between men and women, the potential of pregnancy has to be planned for. When I realized my husband was not someone I'd want to father my children, I left him.
 
Accidents are accidents because things can happen in spite of your best plans and expectations. Being smart or not smart has nothing to do with it. I know a couple in their mid forties whose two kids are in college....Last year, she got pregnant again after almost 20 years....with twins. :eek:
 
toffscum
something about your post hit a nerve with me but I don't know exactly why. Let me just say that nothing is 100%, and you can get pregnant too if you are having sex! Also, women in medicine are just as entitled to having children as anyone else. Maybe I read your post the wrong way, or the tone, but I got the impression from it that you were looking at it that way.
 
Xandie said:
The major flaw I see with that argument is that it assumes that the point of marriage is to be able to have babies. I think marriage is about the two people it joins, and no one else. Your level of readiness to share the rest of your life with another person is completely independent of your financial readiness to have a child, or any other extraneous factor.

I'd always understood the argument to not be that you should WANT to have a family as soon as you get married (or even ever if that's your choice), but that if you were married you should be stable enough (relationship and money wise) to take care of children should they be planned or not. If you're totally ready to start a life with someone, but one or both of you is in a part of your schooling or career to which a child would be a big burden (instead of the blessing it should be), should you holdoff on getting married? Most of the time it shouldn't matter, but if you're that 1% who ends up pregnant...

I'm not trying to be antagonistic...just trying to "tease" out what people are really trying to say on this subject. :)
 
Cuteasaurus said:
I'd always understood the argument to not be that you should WANT to have a family as soon as you get married (or even ever if that's your choice), but that if you were married you should be stable enough (relationship and money wise) to take care of children should they be planned or not. If you're totally ready to start a life with someone, but one or both of you is in a part of your schooling or career to which a child would be a big burden (instead of the blessing it should be), should you holdoff on getting married? Most of the time it shouldn't matter, but if you're that 1% who ends up pregnant...

I'm not trying to be antagonistic...just trying to "tease" out what people are really trying to say on this subject. :)

I see what you're saying, but that assumes that people aren't putting themselves in the situation where they could get pregnant (i.e. having sex) until they get married. I don't know of any statistics, but I'd wager it's less than 10 % of couples at this point. So for those 90 % (or whatever), getting married won't change the likelihood of them getting pregnant.
 
You're right, I should have specified that I was assuming a "wait until marriage" policy. For those who aren't waiting I suppose the opposite would be true...better to get married "earlier" in case an accident does happnen. ;)
 
Hi all, i am new to this but i was reading your post and felt i should share my story. I am a young medical student in the UK. I have a degree already in physical therapy, and just recieved a grade A 94% in my end of year medical exams. i had the world at my feet. untill....i recieved a letter through the door from a girl....

It was a girl i had stupidly had a one night fling with a year ago, silly i know but we are all young and it was totaly out of the norm for me. She informed me she had given birth to twins and sure enough they were mine. it shattered my world, and i am still shattered by it. many guys would just walk away but i am a sensitive guy and this has really affected me, it is my worst nightmare come true. The thing that bothers me so much is that i cannot work out how she became pregant to me. I am meticulous in use of condoms. i put it on perfect, we had sex for all of 5 minutes, i pulled out before i ejaculated (as i always do even with a condom),
then checked the condom, even filling it with water (i am so paranoid about this), and she still got pregnant!! How? the chances of it are incredible

1. she was told she could no longer have kids after ovarian trouble
2. i used a condom so very carefuly, it did not break
3. we had sex once only
4. i never even came inside her
5. it was twins as well to make matter worse.

I fele like the unluckiest guy in the world!!

just wanted you all to know that us guys suffer too, i did all a man can do to prevent this (albeit i should never have slept with her, but lifes like that)
its just incredible and it has really affected my life!! i'l never know to the day i die how my sperm reached that ovum. devastating to me and my family.

thank you for reading

good luck all
 
Get a paternity test, if you haven't already. And then, if paternity really is established, you will have to make peace with being a dad.
Pregnancy is a natural consequence of sex. Despite our best intentions--it happens. Happened to my sister (same precautions) and to many people I know. Quite frankly, given the law of averages and my age (31), the more I know the more I'm amazed it hasn't happened to me.
Good luck,
Lisa

youngmedic said:
I fele like the unluckiest guy in the world!!

just wanted you all to know that us guys suffer too, i did all a man can do to prevent this (albeit i should never have slept with her, but lifes like that)
its just incredible and it has really affected my life!! i'l never know to the day i die how my sperm reached that ovum. devastating to me and my family.

thank you for reading

good luck all
 
" I have to laugh at all of my husband's early 20-something classmates who complained about putting in 10 hour days during clinical rotations, or having to get out of bed before 8 am. HA!!!! What is the difference between their complaints about "trying to manage" everything, and a parent's?"

The difference is you CHOSE to be a parent, so you shouldn't be complaining because everyone else didn't CHOOSE that same thing. Did you ever complain about getting up early or putting in long days before having children?? I'm sure you did. So you really have no right to laugh at those other students. They will manage just as much as you do now when and if they decide to become parents.
 
My daughter will be arriving in September, and honestly the prospect of becoming a dad has lit a fire under my ass as far as getting back to school and getting on with what I want to do for a living- I had just been existing, but now I don't just have myself and my fiancee to worry about. It's made me a more mature individual (believe it or not), and I must say that it was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Not bad for a mistake, eh?
 
Steve- How exciting!! Congrats on your little one. My daughters had the same effect on me for sure. Watching then grow up shows me the kind of person I want to be and how much family matters. It really did motivate me to change or improve on any issues I faced.

For my husband- he sounds alot like you too. He's had his "downs" about parenthood like anyone else...sometimes he just gets overwhelmed and might wonder what things would be like if he was on his own. Overall though, he tells me his family is one of his biggest motivators for success. It's nice to know you have someone to lean on as you go through med school and beyond.
 
OSURxgirl said:
" I I]

The difference is you CHOSE to be a parent, so you shouldn't be complaining because everyone else didn't CHOOSE that same thing. Did you ever complain about getting up early or putting in long days before having children?? I'm sure you did. So you really have no right to laugh at those other students. They will manage just as much as you do now when and if they decide to become parents.


My intent was not to say that one is necessarily harder than the other...it simply has to do with personal experience and perspective. Actually, it's more the perspective of a 32 year old viewing the life of a 22 year old...it has very little to do with the kiddos. Of course I complained way back when....that's why I laugh! Oh, and by the way, you CHOOSE to go to medical school and put in long hours too, so your point is moot.
 
I know this is an old thread, and though I should, I simply cannot resist. I must say that if my wife of five years had me wrap it each time I wanted to hit it, she'd be turned to the curb. How can you make your poor husband have sex with you like you're nothing more than a one-night stand? C'mon, now, that's just not right. :mad: The pill is not all that difficult to master. Leave the dial by your toothbrush so you never forget it at night. You can even decide when you want to have your period... :thumbup: It's a marvelous invention that's been keeping brothers out of child support for a little less than forty years now, time to liberate your hubby! ;)

(I know, I know, I should be on the Dr. Phil Show.) :D
 
To the OP, you better be knocking on some wood (hah- the cellulose kind)!

I have a good friend who went off on this spiel about how professional women shouldn't have kids because it derails their careers...and unbeknownst to her, she was pregnant at the time!

It's all part of the yin and the yang, the universe doing it's best to teach lessons to the ignorant.
 
wow, after hearing about all of the surprise pregnancies that occurred while people were using contraception, I'm starting to wonder why I never got pregnant back when I had a life.. Used condoms only without any real backup method for at least 6 months in last LTR (ah, I know, dumb, but I loved the guy and we wanted kids someday at the time), and on the pill only with my first love for nearly a year (both virgins and tested neg. for everything), never had an "accident." I'm starting to think my fertility is compromised; anyone else raising eyebrows at their uterus at this point?
 
frankly, i dont believe all these surprise pregnancies on meticulous birth control . . . someone goofed somewhere. i'll admit, the pill can be tricky to remember, especially as a third/fourth year med student with a schedule that is constantly changing. even so, if the woman is on some kind of hormonal contraceptive, plus the guy wears a condom with spermicide AND you avoid sex during supposed ovulation, i swear to god, how can you possibly become pregnant???? i swear its impossible. honestly. i dont care about that .1% chance even with perfect use. i think thats just something drug companies can use so they dont get sued. my obgyn said that in reality, if used 100% absolutely positively correctly, hormonal birth control is 100% effective. it has to be- when you're on it, YOU DONT OVULATE.

or perhaps, like irlandessa, im just kidding myself, and im really just infertile. :rolleyes:
 
ISU_Steve said:
but now I don't just have myself and my fiancee to worry about
So you knocked her up before marrying her, huh?
 
I feel the need to chime in. You sound bitter or suspicious (of women?).

Not everyone is able to take hormonal OCPs - there are some contraindications. I know a lot of friends that got preggo on OCPs and especially the patch. This is more common since the doses have creeped lower in the past 10 years.
There's also Depo but now that is suggested to use for only 2 years.
Condoms are not as effective as people think. Other barrier methods can be even worse.
Lots of docs won't place an IUD unless you've already had a child.

Maybe some of these people planned it but are embarassed to say so because of the immense social pressure to put work before family.

Maybe the man should just get a vasectomy and harvest sperm when the couple wants kids. I'm sure you'll disagree...it is an unreasonable measure. :)

The only way to prevent an unwanted pregnancy is to not have sex. Some of us think the risk is less than the benefit. :oops:

I don't know any medical school that educates on the appropriate way to use contraceptive methods except with descriptions. I learned in a Junior High class but it was very controversial and VERY strange at that age.

Toofscum said:
I am always surprised when I hear people--on this board or wherever--talk about having surprise babies or unexpected babies, especially when it complicates their marriages or schooling. Don't these couples always use birth control correctly in order to best plan out their children? I would think that most smart couples would never leave such an important consideration to chance. I know occasionally the condom breaks or whatever, but seeing as so many of my friends have had this happen (who are having problems now balancing work and their PhD or med school programs), I am confused.
 
raspberry swirl said:
it has to be- when you're on it, YOU DONT OVULATE.

Unless you DO. Not everyone's body responds the same way to exogenous hormones, you know. :rolleyes:
 
Top