Suny Downstate info

[DrBean09]

hi i was just wondering if anyone can give me info about downstate... i was accepted and most likely will attend this fall (ia) i just wanted to know if it is a good school or if i should attend umdnj-njms where i was already accepted but probably wont attend due to fam commitments and out-of-state tuition [btw im a ny resident.] id appreciate advice from current downstate students in particular... i've checked all over sdn and cannot find downstate students threads so any info at all would help (schedules, professors, parking, student life etc) thanks a lot

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[liynus]

Hi,
Lucky you caught me being lazy. I usually don't check the studentdoc boards, but I'm a MS1 at SUNY Downstate right now. As an overview, Downstate is a great school for those who are independent and know they will like the city. We have system based learned, eg Head and Neck, Musculoskel., Cardiovascular. Which means, you learn all the Physio, Anatomy, and Histo at the same time. There are plus and minuses, sometimes it can get a little confusing, but overall it's a plus IMHO because we only have block exams. Meaning one big exam for each subject. We don't have a gruellng marathon of exam week and a half like RWJ (i know bc my college room mate goes there) just one big exam every month. We also have spring break! But RWJ gets out earlier.

But even tho we have one exam, we do have quizes and midterms sometimes, so don't think you'll be able to slack for a month, just maybe 2-3 weeks. (slacking being a really subjective term) I'm in Renal/Endocrine now which is known as relaxation mode in Downstate. Plus of course, cheap tuition for instate, though they did hike it to +2K this year (grumble...). My class is super friendly and supportive (though this really depends on the year) the class above us are known to be gunners/or just really smart. There are a lot of reviews for MS1s and they do try to ease you in. However, I would recommend not living in the dorms. Working in Flatbush for the clinical experience is invaluable, you get to see everything (some of my friends are taking an ER elective, and they do attest to the gunshot wound every 6 hr rumor) however living there is another story.

Also don't be afraid that your patients will be ghetto. I asked a close friend who is a MSIII and he says, the people you treat are so greatful that you can help them, they won't treat you a lowly Medstudent but like a real doctor. And yes, even the crazies mellow out when they need help. That being said. It's not like living there you don't feel safe, in fact Flatbush has really calmed down as a neighborhood since NYC has improved so much. It's just that, you will want to be in a neighborhood where you can hang out and get stuff. Forget grocery shopping, fresh fruits, and the GAP (no wonder CVD is so high in poor urban areas! no not because they don't have fashion.) I highly recommend Park Slope for the yuppie kind of post college feeling. I have a 15min commute, some have 1/2hr depending on how far it is. And it's really the same price. Bonus, I'm 15mins on train to downtown Manhattan so I go there often on weekends. And also you'll see the Parkslope Downstate congregation at the 7th Ave Starbucks right b4 each block exam.

The teaching as in all schools is variable. I have to say tho our Cardio teacher, and Renal teacher kick butt! And GI was cool, cos we learned Biochem via the Atkins diet. I'm not sure I believed the hoopla, but it was definitely cool to learn it that way. Although, some of the more old school teachers I've stopped going to. Oh, and also Evidence Based Med is really not that good here. Meaning, if you want hand holding, PsychoSocialBio model blah blah Downstate is not the place. Its quality is really on medicine at least for MS1. And the administration is tough like that too, Downstate has really mellowed before it was said to be even tougher, but it still retains its characteristic hardness. That said the administration is receptive, but not overly.

MS2 is a lot harder tho. And I'm not too qualified to say that much. Since I haven't gone through it.

Hope that helps and good luck making your decision,
I was in the same place too last year. I decided on Downstate over Einstein. Just based on $$$s alone. And as a MS1 I surely don't regret it.

Charles

 

[doc05]

if you're deciding between njms and downstate, there is minimal difference: average/good schools, inner-city location, etc. I don't know about curriculum, etc, but the bottom line is that the schools are very comparable and you should go with downstate if it is significantly cheaper. best of luck.

 

[yoni]

Hi,
Lucky you caught me being lazy. I usually don't check the studentdoc boards, but I'm a MS1 at SUNY Downstate right now. As an overview, Downstate is a great school for those who are independent and know they will like the city. We have system based learned, eg Head and Neck, Musculoskel., Cardiovascular. Which means, you learn all the Physio, Anatomy, and Histo at the same time. There are plus and minuses, sometimes it can get a little confusing, but overall it's a plus IMHO because we only have block exams. Meaning one big exam for each subject. We don't have a gruellng marathon of exam week and a half like RWJ (i know bc my college room mate goes there) just one big exam every month. We also have spring break! But RWJ gets out earlier.

But even tho we have one exam, we do have quizes and midterms sometimes, so don't think you'll be able to slack for a month, just maybe 2-3 weeks. (slacking being a really subjective term) I'm in Renal/Endocrine now which is known as relaxation mode in Downstate. Plus of course, cheap tuition for instate, though they did hike it to +2K this year (grumble...). My class is super friendly and supportive (though this really depends on the year) the class above us are known to be gunners/or just really smart. There are a lot of reviews for MS1s and they do try to ease you in. However, I would recommend not living in the dorms. Working in Flatbush for the clinical experience is invaluable, you get to see everything (some of my friends are taking an ER elective, and they do attest to the gunshot wound every 6 hr rumor) however living there is another story.

Also don't be afraid that your patients will be ghetto. I asked a close friend who is a MSIII and he says, the people you treat are so greatful that you can help them, they won't treat you a lowly Medstudent but like a real doctor. And yes, even the crazies mellow out when they need help. That being said. It's not like living there you don't feel safe, in fact Flatbush has really calmed down as a neighborhood since NYC has improved so much. It's just that, you will want to be in a neighborhood where you can hang out and get stuff. Forget grocery shopping, fresh fruits, and the GAP (no wonder CVD is so high in poor urban areas! no not because they don't have fashion.) I highly recommend Park Slope for the yuppie kind of post college feeling. I have a 15min commute, some have 1/2hr depending on how far it is. And it's really the same price. Bonus, I'm 15mins on train to downtown Manhattan so I go there often on weekends. And also you'll see the Parkslope Downstate congregation at the 7th Ave Starbucks right b4 each block exam.

The teaching as in all schools is variable. I have to say tho our Cardio teacher, and Renal teacher kick butt! And GI was cool, cos we learned Biochem via the Atkins diet. I'm not sure I believed the hoopla, but it was definitely cool to learn it that way. Although, some of the more old school teachers I've stopped going to. Oh, and also Evidence Based Med is really not that good here. Meaning, if you want hand holding, PsychoSocialBio model blah blah Downstate is not the place. Its quality is really on medicine at least for MS1. And the administration is tough like that too, Downstate has really mellowed before it was said to be even tougher, but it still retains its characteristic hardness. That said the administration is receptive, but not overly.

MS2 is a lot harder tho. And I'm not too qualified to say that much. Since I haven't gone through it.

Hope that helps and good luck making your decision,
I was in the same place too last year. I decided on Downstate over Einstein. Just based on $$$s alone. And as a MS1 I surely don't regret it.

Charles

i'll agree with my friend charles in terms of curriculum. however, the tuition might be raised for ny residents (the bill is waiting to be passes). and umdnj makes out of staters in staters before the school year even starts. in other words, i think you will prob be saving money by going to umdnj. the other thing i want to say is the envirornments are very different (piscataway vs. brooklyn). you pretty much know what youre getting in piscataway, but brooklyn depends very much on where you live.
good luck,
yoni
downstate COM
Rutgers College 04

 

[gluon999]

and umdnj makes out of staters in staters before the school year even starts. in other words, i think you will prob be saving money by going to umdnj.

Wait, does that mean that an out of stater can pay in state tuition at NJ? How is that any different from a flat tuition rate?

 

[BGGA]

Hi,
Lucky you caught me being lazy. I usually don't check the studentdoc boards, but I'm a MS1 at SUNY Downstate right now. As an overview, Downstate is a great school for those who are independent and know they will like the city. We have system based learned, eg Head and Neck, Musculoskel., Cardiovascular. Which means, you learn all the Physio, Anatomy, and Histo at the same time. There are plus and minuses, sometimes it can get a little confusing, but overall it's a plus IMHO because we only have block exams. Meaning one big exam for each subject. We don't have a gruellng marathon of exam week and a half like RWJ (i know bc my college room mate goes there) just one big exam every month. We also have spring break! But RWJ gets out earlier.

But even tho we have one exam, we do have quizes and midterms sometimes, so don't think you'll be able to slack for a month, just maybe 2-3 weeks. (slacking being a really subjective term) I'm in Renal/Endocrine now which is known as relaxation mode in Downstate. Plus of course, cheap tuition for instate, though they did hike it to +2K this year (grumble...). My class is super friendly and supportive (though this really depends on the year) the class above us are known to be gunners/or just really smart. There are a lot of reviews for MS1s and they do try to ease you in. However, I would recommend not living in the dorms. Working in Flatbush for the clinical experience is invaluable, you get to see everything (some of my friends are taking an ER elective, and they do attest to the gunshot wound every 6 hr rumor) however living there is another story.

Also don't be afraid that your patients will be ghetto. I asked a close friend who is a MSIII and he says, the people you treat are so greatful that you can help them, they won't treat you a lowly Medstudent but like a real doctor. And yes, even the crazies mellow out when they need help. That being said. It's not like living there you don't feel safe, in fact Flatbush has really calmed down as a neighborhood since NYC has improved so much. It's just that, you will want to be in a neighborhood where you can hang out and get stuff. Forget grocery shopping, fresh fruits, and the GAP (no wonder CVD is so high in poor urban areas! no not because they don't have fashion.) I highly recommend Park Slope for the yuppie kind of post college feeling. I have a 15min commute, some have 1/2hr depending on how far it is. And it's really the same price. Bonus, I'm 15mins on train to downtown Manhattan so I go there often on weekends. And also you'll see the Parkslope Downstate congregation at the 7th Ave Starbucks right b4 each block exam.

The teaching as in all schools is variable. I have to say tho our Cardio teacher, and Renal teacher kick butt! And GI was cool, cos we learned Biochem via the Atkins diet. I'm not sure I believed the hoopla, but it was definitely cool to learn it that way. Although, some of the more old school teachers I've stopped going to. Oh, and also Evidence Based Med is really not that good here. Meaning, if you want hand holding, PsychoSocialBio model blah blah Downstate is not the place. Its quality is really on medicine at least for MS1. And the administration is tough like that too, Downstate has really mellowed before it was said to be even tougher, but it still retains its characteristic hardness. That said the administration is receptive, but not overly.

MS2 is a lot harder tho. And I'm not too qualified to say that much. Since I haven't gone through it.

Hope that helps and good luck making your decision,
I was in the same place too last year. I decided on Downstate over Einstein. Just based on $$$s alone. And as a MS1 I surely don't regret it.

Charles

Thanks so much for the info. These are two of my choice also. With regards to the living situation at downstate, the only advantage I see in living in the dorms is the proximity to the school and the hospital (the price is cheaper for off campus). I have heard of park slope as a recommendation for housing before. Do you drive or use public transportation? How is the parking situation at downstate? In park slope?
Thanks again

 

[BGGA]

Wait, does that mean that an out of stater can pay in state tuition at NJ? How is that any different from a flat tuition rate?

I know for UMDNJ-New Jersey Medical school we were told that we could change residency qualify for instate tuition for all 4 years. I know for most other schools you pay out of state tuition for the first year and instate for the remaining 3. Great deal. I'm don't remember is this is the same case for Robert Wood Johnson.

 

[BGGA]

i'll agree with my friend charles in terms of curriculum. however, the tuition might be raised for ny residents (the bill is waiting to be passes). and umdnj makes out of staters in staters before the school year even starts. in other words, i think you will prob be saving money by going to umdnj. the other thing i want to say is the envirornments are very different (piscataway vs. brooklyn). you pretty much know what youre getting in piscataway, but brooklyn depends very much on where you live.
good luck,
yoni
downstate COM
Rutgers College 04

What about Brooklyn (Downstate) vs. Newark (NJMS)?

 

[dbpatto]

I know for UMDNJ-New Jersey Medical school we were told that we could change residency qualify for instate tuition for all 4 years. I know for most other schools you pay out of state tuition for the first year and instate for the remaining 3. Great deal. I'm don't remember is this is the same case for Robert Wood Johnson.

It is the same for Robert Wood Johnson (that is the school in Piscataway!) as it is for NJMS (In Newark).

 

[BGGA]

It is the same for Robert Wood Johnson (that is the school in Piscataway!) as it is for NJMS (In Newark).

I'm not sure. I remember when I interviewed at NJMS, Dr. Heinrich specifically mentioned it (I'm a NY resident). I don't remember it being mentioned at RWJ but that doesn't mean that it is not the case there. They are under the same UMDNJ system so I would assume that they have a similar policy

 

[liynus]

parking sucks. park slope included. probably worse in park slope than at downstate. as ms you don't get car space opps until 3rd year clerkships. for 1st two years only option is $100/mo at local garage, with sign up for random spaces on wait list (think 2yrs wait). i really don't recommend a car, unless you want to pay for it. (but i do have one, yesh, i am crazy).

 

[BGGA]

parking sucks. park slope included. probably worse in park slope than at downstate. as ms you don't get car space opps until 3rd year clerkships. for 1st two years only option is $100/mo at local garage, with sign up for random spaces on wait list (think 2yrs wait). i really don't recommend a car, unless you want to pay for it. (but i do have one, yesh, i am crazy).

I currently have a car and have been concerned about the parking situation in Brooklyn. Since there is no student parking I was wondering how students with cars cope. When I interview I paid $10 for valet. How do you manage? Is it a matter of getting to school early to find a parking space or do you pay for a lot? Did you ever consider selling? I really don't want to but I'll see what happens.

 

[DrBean09]

charles and yoni... i know u guys r really busy so thanks for taking your time out to reply back. as of now i will most likely attend downstate i've heard mostly good things about it. i was also wondering if it would be convenient to take the train to downstate. i live on long island and drive a suv so im also really concerned about the parking (im not a very good parker). i didnt see a station near downstate the day i interviewed just a bunch of bus stops but if anyone knows anything about it reply back. best of luck to everyone who's finalizing their choices... future downstaters see you in august

 

[f_w]

The Church Ave and Winthrop St stations are 5 minutes walk away. Hospital Police runs a shuttle during the daytime and will drop you off with a squad car at night.

There are a couple of private parking lots in the industrial area between the medschool and Nostrand Ave. They are pricey, but given the discount tuition an extra 1k per year shouldn't make a difference. Btw. you might want to think about changing that SUV for an older Buick Regal for your commute to Flatbush, reduces the heartbreak if something happens to it. Leave your car insurance at your parents place. Rates in central brooklyn are 2-3 times what you pay in the rest of the country (hint hint).

Parking in Park Slope (hahaha) sucks. The only garage will be converted to condos and parking a BIKE there was $250/month back in the days. 20min searches for a spot are normal, at times you will hike 10min back from where you finally found one. Oh, and you know the concept of 'alternating' street cleaning ? 1 day per week you have to move your car from 9-11am. (If it's there at 9.05am you get a $105 ticket. If you park it at 10.55am you get a $105 ticket. It IS like in the Seinfeld episode !)

Oh, for housing look at 'Prospect Heights'. It is not as cool as Park Slope, but the rents are less prohibitive. Also, you have walking access to the 2/5 subway that brings you out to Downstate.

That said, I think it is a solid medschool. As a medstudent you get definitely a lot of bang for your buck.

 

[liynus]

With cars, you'll have to pay. $100/months for lots near downstate. But there are a bunch, so you'll have no problems. Again the best bet is the school lot, which is $10/mo i think, or something insanely cheap (but there's a long waitlist 2 yrs) 100/mo isn't really too bad imho.

As for parking for free near Downstate. Think 7AM early to grab a free spot. Tho strangely enough spots open up at 9:30AM because of alternate side street parking (look it up kiddies, if you own a car alternate street will dominate your life in nyc).

O and if you own a nice car. Please put it in a lot. To spare the heartbreak. This is generally recommened for all areas of Brooklyn. Not only because they will steal it, they might not, but because people parking will scratch and bump it.

If you are living in Parkslope. The parking is a lot more expensive. Imho it's harder to get a free spot there than near Downstate.

I second the Prospect Heights notion. I live right on the border, and my rent is much cheaper than people who live in the heart of Park Slope.

Welcome to Downstate, and make sure you enjoy your summer!! You'll need the rest.

Charles

 

[f_w]

Oh, and stay away from the dorms on New York Ave (even if you get a room there) they are a dump. This assumes that they are still standing, I allways suspected they would spontaneously collapse into the student union. Don't look to closely at the Downstate parking deck either. It is held together by duct-tape and self-tapping wood screws.

As for the car-theft issue: This is why I mentioned an older Regal as an option. For some reason it's not the new and big cars that get stolen, rather oddities like 1998 Accords (if you have something new, like an Altima, they will leave you the car and just take the headlights and the grill )

Car theft is probably not better or worse than in Newark. A relative of mine got his civic stolen there. The cops 'found' it 3 hours later with engine, wheels, steering collumn and front fenders missing. To add insult to injury he got fined $50 for littering and they towed the remains of the vehicle to the pound. Of course, they were smart enough not to divulge the condition of the car before the tow+fine was paid. (supposedly later some city employee and tow operator went to jail for towing cars and chopping them in the pound lot, sort of reversing the usual order of things).

 

[DrBean09]

hi again thanks for the great info- its helpful. some more questions: what is a typical MS-1 schedule like daily with classes, labs and clinicals? and what is a first-year allowed to do in the hospital? is there a note-taking servive? are exams in class? or online? is there a break between june and august? how many students are in the first year class combined? i know they went over a lot of this on interview day but i was so nervous i hardly remember anything from that day but, sdn has really been helping.
for accepted downstate students co'9: is anyone going for the second look this month?

 

[downstateguy]

hi again thanks for the great info- its helpful. some more questions: what is a typical MS-1 schedule like daily with classes, labs and clinicals? and what is a first-year allowed to do in the hospital? is there a note-taking servive? are exams in class? or online? is there a break between june and august? how many students are in the first year class combined? i know they went over a lot of this on interview day but i was so nervous i hardly remember anything from that day but, sdn has really been helping.
for accepted downstate students co'9: is anyone going for the second look this month?

the ms1 schedule is lectures m-f, start at 9 and usually go until early afternoon. anatomy starts a month or so into 1st year and means usually 2 afternoons per week in the lab. On top of that are small group sessions usually 2x per week. 1st-year lectures generally are awful, with the exception of some of the anatomy ones and the entire renal block.

first year clinicals are one day per week. you have lecture/small group in the am, and afternoons are spent in a "clinical site" Since there are so many students in the class (~180), people are sent all over Brooklyn, as well as Staten Island and even Manhattan. The 1st-year clinical experience is a nice attempt to introduce the ms1 class to clinical stuff but there is huge variability as far as quality of that experience.

there is also a noncredit "ER elective" open to 1st and 2nd year students. 1st years can take the course in the spring. you spend 1 nite per week in the kings county ER observing things. you're not supposed to "do things" since you're not covered by malpractice at that point.

there is a student-run notetaking service that transcribes all your lectures. some students swear by it; others will tell you it's unnecessary. the thing is that anything and everything you'll see on an exam is somewhere in the handout (course syllabus); so it just amounts to memorizing everything.

summer break after 1st year is about 8-10 weeks. you can do research but most people just go on vacation.

 

[downstateguy]

charles and yoni... i know u guys r really busy so thanks for taking your time out to reply back. as of now i will most likely attend downstate i've heard mostly good things about it. i was also wondering if it would be convenient to take the train to downstate. i live on long island and drive a suv so im also really concerned about the parking (im not a very good parker). i didnt see a station near downstate the day i interviewed just a bunch of bus stops but if anyone knows anything about it reply back. best of luck to everyone who's finalizing their choices... future downstaters see you in august

the train near campus is the subway (the 2/5 line). the LIRR does not run there and you'd have to connect trains. If you plan on living on long island (which I wouldn't recommend, since the LIE is a nightmare), you should drive in, especially since you already have a car. there is a surface lot available several blocks from campus staffed by downstate security; it's $4 a day and is open m-f. there is no "waitlist" for this, any student can by tickets for the lot. the parking garage, as someone mentioned, is only available for students doing clerkships. that's basically because parking is tight and the structure serves as parking for the hospital/med schools many employees.

if you're living in the dorms, you don't need a car since the school is across the street. going into manhattan is very convenient as the subway is close to school.

if you're living in park slope, you can take the 2/5 line to campus instead of driving in. this is basically because keeping a car in park slope can be a real pain, since street parking is hard to come by in that neighborhood (which is otherwise a very nice place to live).

street parking near campus is generally safe; the problem is that street parking is tough to come by, as alternate side parking rules apply 4 days/week in the neighborhood, and are from 8-9:30 am. Classes start at 9, so that's a problem. And while there's always the risk of your car getting scratched/dented/even stolen, that's the cost of living in the big city.

 

[cocoboomer]

My class is super friendly and supportive (though this really depends on the year) the class above us are known to be gunners/or just really smart.

Hey there....MS2 here. (COM 2007). Yeah, our class is INSANELY competitive. Everyone is super smart, and everyone seems to do well! Downstate curves down only when too many people fail a block. We've only been curved down like twice over the course of the entire first 2 years. That's cause there is a huge chunk of the class that does well. I hear that the current MS1 class has had several "curve-downs" already, so it seems they are more of a relaxed class.

A lot of my classmates are from really good academic undergrad schools (Lots of Ivy League alums, Duke, MIT, Hopkins, Berkeley) and maybe that is a reason for why our class seems to do so well. There are a lot of people who want to do really competitive residencies.....tons of orthopods, an insane amount of ER interest, plastics, derms, etc. I don't know what happened, since the class before us seems pretty chill, and so is the class after us. Oh well. Just goes to show you never what you're going to get......every incoming class has a different dynamic.

 

[BGGA]

Downstateguy,

Do you attend these awful lectures or do you bypass lecture and just study the material yourself? What is your general opinion of the school, are you happy with the decision that you made to attend? I'm seriously considering downstate and any insight that you (or any other current student) can give about the school would be appreciated.

the ms1 schedule is lectures m-f, start at 9 and usually go until early afternoon. anatomy starts a month or so into 1st year and means usually 2 afternoons per week in the lab. On top of that are small group sessions usually 2x per week. 1st-year lectures generally are awful, with the exception of some of the anatomy ones and the entire renal block.

first year clinicals are one day per week. you have lecture/small group in the am, and afternoons are spent in a "clinical site" Since there are so many students in the class (~180), people are sent all over Brooklyn, as well as Staten Island and even Manhattan. The 1st-year clinical experience is a nice attempt to introduce the ms1 class to clinical stuff but there is huge variability as far as quality of that experience.

there is also a noncredit "ER elective" open to 1st and 2nd year students. 1st years can take the course in the spring. you spend 1 nite per week in the kings county ER observing things. you're not supposed to "do things" since you're not covered by malpractice at that point.

there is a student-run notetaking service that transcribes all your lectures. some students swear by it; others will tell you it's unnecessary. the thing is that anything and everything you'll see on an exam is somewhere in the handout (course syllabus); so it just amounts to memorizing everything.

summer break after 1st year is about 8-10 weeks. you can do research but most people just go on vacation.

 

[downstateguy]

Downstateguy,

Do you attend these awful lectures or do you bypass lecture and just study the material yourself? What is your general opinion of the school, are you happy with the decision that you made to attend? I'm seriously considering downstate and any insight that you (or any other current student) can give about the school would be appreciated.

I stopped attending lectures midway thru ms1 year. The course syllabi provide everything you need, so why sit through those awful lectures??

the school is in general an ok place, lousy location, average-good clinical experience. depending on what other schools you are considering, it might be a good choice. I'd be happy to answer any specific questions you've got, just post them online. good luck.

 

[BGGA]

Thanks, I PMed you.

 

[nkhotakota]

Hey Downstateguy,

I'm curious to know why you think the lectures are aweful. Is it aweful because the lecturers at Downstate are bad or is it b/c MS1 lectures are boring in general?

thx

 

[bonez318ti]

Hi Downstate guy,

how accurate was the budget they oritinally gave you? There is a 7k line item for Misc which isnt very detailed.. and I was wondering if these were additional fees/etc that is required.. I have a budget from another SUNY and there was no 7k line item for this (only ~2.7k for Health Insurance).

 

[downstateguy]

Hey Downstateguy,

I'm curious to know why you think the lectures are aweful. Is it aweful because the lecturers at Downstate are bad or is it b/c MS1 lectures are boring in general?

thx

Why do I think they are awful?? Because they are. MS1 lectures are boring in general. But most of the preclinical faculty makes no attempt to provide interesting lectures, so this is magnified. Some are especially awful. The exception is the renal faculty for both ms1 and ms2. They are very very good.

 

[downstateguy]

Hi Downstate guy,

how accurate was the budget they oritinally gave you? There is a 7k line item for Misc which isnt very detailed.. and I was wondering if these were additional fees/etc that is required.. I have a budget from another SUNY and there was no 7k line item for this (only ~2.7k for Health Insurance).

I have no idea about the budget they originally gave me. You can live off what they give you in loans, so don't worry about this.

There were rumors that tuition at all SUNY med schools would be "out of state" --even for NYers -- for those not pursuing primary care. I don't know what happened to this proposal, but you should look into this. Your debt could be seriously affected if this goes through. Over the last 4 years, my tuition has been increasing 2k/year, every year. Thus 20k more debt than I expected when I accepted their offer of admission. Look into the tuition issue.

 

[DrBean09]

What are the drawbacks of attending downstate... i've heard mostly good things about it. What are the lecturers like? Is there a service where the lectures are online and hardly anyone attends class? I've already decided on Downstate but its nice to know more about it. Thanks for all the great advice so far. Also, this might sound like a stupid question: What part of Brooklyn is this campus in? Is it E Flatbush or Park Slope?- I'm not from there so I have no idea where to tell ppl it is.

 

[f_w]

> What part of Brooklyn is this campus in? Is it E Flatbush

East Flatbush. The politically correct way to describe this neighbourhood is 'caribbean working class'. The majority of the hospital population is from the islands, many jamaicans, plenty of folks from Grenada. In addition, in recent years there has been an influx of Ghanaians and Nigerians. At the Downstate hospital, you will see the occasional orthodox patient, either from Crown Heights or Borough Park (mostly the ones who have some beef with Maimo).

> or Park Slope?-

That would be great. The sad thing is that in the starting years, the school was located in Brooklyn Heights. When the state bought them out, they had the choice to co-locate it with the Brooklyn VA (in Bay Ridge) or Kings County Hospital. Back then, E-Flatbush was a good neighbourhood (in 52 there were something like 2 homicides in E Flatbush. Today it is more like 250), so they chose to put the school next to 'the county'. Imagine, if they had put it next to the VA: Looking over the bridge and a stone-throw from the ocean.

 

[BGGA]

f w,

How do you feel about downstate? What do you like/dislike? Thanks

 

[f_w]

First of all, I was a resident there, not a medstudent.

But I have seen many smart students there, and the ones that came through my service went places. I think you get a solid education there, and you just can't beat the bargain basement price (only instate). The school has trained more chairmen than most others (by virtue of volume. It was a large school when some of the chichi academic places graduated 20 students per year). Wherever in the northeast you go for residency and later, there will be someone who did his training at Downstate.

> How do you feel about downstate?

Mixed.

It was a miserable place to be a resident at. The hospitals are run by brain amputated monkeys, the ancillary services are nonexistent.

BUT, that doesn't affect the education the medstudents. Yes, you'll have to do a bit more scut on rotations, but that is a good preparation for residency anyway (if you do your rotations at some chichi private hospital with a phlebotomy and IV service, you won't learn how to do difficult IV's as a medstudent) The breadth of pathology you will see at a place like the county is unrivaled. You will see diseases extinct in the rest of the US (outside of Jackson Memorial, Cook County etc).

The faculty is dedicated. Many of the people teaching there are far better than the place deserves (based on the working conditions they offer their faculty).

You will however be faced with many of the unresolved social issues of this country. Many students live in a bubbleworld until they graduate college. (They grew up in some suburb of Albany, went away to some nice collegetown and never realized how life looks like on the 'other side of the tracks'.)

 

[downstateguy]

What are the drawbacks of attending downstate... i've heard mostly good things about it. What are the lecturers like? Is there a service where the lectures are online and hardly anyone attends class? I've already decided on Downstate but its nice to know more about it. Thanks for all the great advice so far. Also, this might sound like a stupid question: What part of Brooklyn is this campus in? Is it E Flatbush or Park Slope?- I'm not from there so I have no idea where to tell ppl it is.

the drawbacks??
the neighborhood. school reputation is good, but the name will hurt you somewhat if you're applying for the most competitive residencies (derm, plastics, etc). Even so, people match into every field. So it's a minor obstacle.

the main hospitals (Univ Hosp Brooklyn, Kings County) are very poorly run. you'll learn some skills doing endless scut, but guess what?? scut isn't medicine. Gross inefficiencies abound, which can be frustrating at best.


lectures??
I'll graduate in a few weeks. I can't remember much, except that I stopped going about mid-way through 1st year. Premeds put way too much emphasis on how preclinical curricula vary from school to school. Preclinical curricula matter very little, if at all. The lecturers, for the most part, suck. I've already stated that.

But it doesn't matter, since everything you'll see in an exam is written in the course syllabus -- you don't really have to read books since the syllabi cover almost everything. Your preclinical years also include small groups, CBL's, etc, which can be fun but can also be a pain, depending on who is in your group.

Online lectures? Not when I was an ms1/2. I don't think things have changed, but you never know. There is a student-run notetaking service which has a turnaround time of 2-3 days, so if you put any stock into lectures, you can get the info that way.

Even so, you should realize that med school lectures are NOTHING like college lectures. In college, you need to attend lectures, since the professors actually teach concepts, engage in discussions, etc. In med school, there are no concepts. Just facts. Lots and lots. So lectures can become boring. And since all the facts you have to recall for an exam are in the course notes, attending lecture can literally waste valuable time you could use memorizing your course syllabus. Even so, almost 1/2 my class attended lectures for ms1/2. Maybe the lectures will work for you. You'll see next year.

E Flatbush. f w is accurate in his characterization of the neighborhood. It used to be a terribly run-down slum, now it's still poor, but somewhat safer. Even so, you probably won't want to live around there. Park slope is a nice area where many students live.

good luck.

Any other questions?? Just post them.

 

[bonez318ti]

what type of grading does downstate use?

I found Honor/Pass/Fail on the web, but wasn't sure if it was outdated or not. How competitive is the atmosphere? Are students typically pretty willing to help each other out, or is it every man for themselves?

I've also been drawn to Downstate because of its clinical experience.. I find your comment that this translates to scut.. while I accept the fact that MS3-4 will be doing some scut work, I'd hope that there is something more than scut work in the 'amazing clinical experience' that everyone talks about

 

[Orbitz]

Hey Downstateguy,

Thanks for answering our questions. From what you're saying it seems that there is a great deal of scut during the clinical years. It has also been my understanding that residency program directors tend to like Downstate students because they get such an great clinical education. Does this still happen with all the scut? Or is my understanding inaccurate?

Thanks for all your help!

 

[f_w]

I've also been drawn to Downstate because of its clinical experience.. I find your comment that this translates to scut.. while I accept the fact that MS3-4 will be doing some scut work, I'd hope that there is something more than scut work in the 'amazing clinical experience' that everyone talks about


Yes, you will go an track down some x-rays, or run some cultures to the micro lab. Residents/interns are told not to dump that stuff on the students, but it will still happen.

As for the 'amazing clinical experience'. There are practically no 'private patients'. Every patient (at least at the county and downstate) is 'teaching material'. While as the medstudent you are not expected to make any decisions, it is your responsibility to follow the patients labs etc. And with responsibility comes learning. The services are typically resident run, during your clinicals you will never hear 'oh, stay out of that room. that is a vip patient of dr cohen'. And as I mentioned, you will see stuff that is uncommon in other places (manifestations of tertiary syphilis, community acquired TB, plenty of AIDS advanced presentations of cancer etc. Kings County serves as the tertiary care center for Kingston Jamaica. Patients stumble out of a plane at JFK, with a $20 bill and a note 'drive me to kings county hospital'.)

 

[teamdick]

As another soon to be Downstate grad, i'll offer my opinion.

For years 1-2, they will suck no matter where you go. endless amount of material to read and memorize. I attended most of the lectures 1st year, and virtually zero during 2nd year. You'll figure out your system, but in the end, I felt well prepared for the boards and did well.

Years 3-4. Unless you end up in some really posh private hospital with all single room beds, you will get scut anywhere you go. True, Kings County and VA have more scut than usual because they lack in ancillary services, but guess who does the 3 am blood draw or replaces the IV? Yes, the intern, so get good at it now, that's the way I saw it. And by doing the scut, you make your days more efficient. Once all your labs are back and x-rays are read and necessary adjustments are made, you can go study rather than waiting hours on the computer for the report to come back or having to wait until phlebotomy gets to it and then hours after that for a lab result. And not all scut is bad, yes blood draws and iV's get boring after a while, but then you may get the opportunity to do spinal taps, NG tubes, central lines, foley changes, etc. If you have shown that you can do procedures, you'll get the opportunity to do it. On my sub-I this year, the MS3 got first crack a the LP. He got it first time, then we took turns moving up the chain of command. He eventually got to tap this guy twice (serial LP for treatment of crypt meningitis in HIV pt). do get me wrong, only do scut when it is needed like a stat lab but if your residents know you are somewhat competent, you will have a chance to do more. as an ms3 i put in a few central lines.

As far as great clinical eduction, the patients are POOR (financially). Sure, some of them realize they can come into the ER for a bee sting, but others wait until their arm is gangrenous and falling off and then come in to complain about a hangnail. So you will see your interesting and rare pathologies. Most of all, I think that because there is a bit more scut and the hospitals are somewhat inefficient, you will have 2 years to make yourself super efficient. when you start your residency, you will be a bit ahead compared to other interns who went to more posh institutions. residency directors see this and say you are well prepared clinically.

 

[downstateguy]

Hey Downstateguy,

Thanks for answering our questions. From what you're saying it seems that there is a great deal of scut during the clinical years. It has also been my understanding that residency program directors tend to like Downstate students because they get such an great clinical education. Does this still happen with all the scut? Or is my understanding inaccurate?

Thanks for all your help!

Great clinical education? I'd say good to very good. Scut, however, will be the main focus of your internship (and even as an attending you'll spend lots of time doing mindless tasks like paperwork), so whether you do medicine or surgery, you'll be well-prepared for the scut.

But you're not an intern forever. Does HMS turn out awful physicians just because they do less scut as med students?? Of course not. Internship is a steep learning curve; so whether you've done zero or 100 iv lines as a med student, everyone's on equal footing pretty quickly.

At Kings County, you'll see some pretty wacky disease presentations. Even so, there are also many patients who are admitted due to homelessness and similar social problems.

 

[Orbitz]

Does anyone know if downstate puts out a list of people who are looking for roommates and apartments? If i don't get a single studio, I will have to start searching for an apartment, preferably park slope. How do students go about finding roommates? Please let me know.

Thanks!

 

[kryptokal]

Does anyone know if downstate puts out a list of people who are looking for roommates and apartments? If i don't get a single studio, I will have to start searching for an apartment, preferably park slope. How do students go about finding roommates? Please let me know.

Thanks!

Unfortunately, Downstate's not too great about providing much off campus housing info because they focus mainly on promoting the dorms. When I tried to set something up, I didn't get much support because of "liability" issues...basically, they worry that if they go ahead and promote off campus housing, and then, god forbid, someone is shot or raped in say Park Slope or Prospect Heights, they worry that will come back and haunt them.

They DO, however, provide an Excel sheet with names and numbers of landlords and realtors that have dealt with many Downstate students in the past and probably have leads on vacancies, etc. Here's a link to get you started: http://www.downstate.edu/residential-life/accommodations.html#Anchor-34280

IMO, it's a "profit" issue because they need to keep the dorms up and running...

If you're willing to deal with some uncertainty early on in the year, wait to secure a place until Orientation starts and see if anyone else is looking for a roommate...once your email account is up and running, you can send an email specifically to the classes to see if anyone else is looking.

 

[Skiam]

Current students.

Would you recommend living on or off campus for your first year?

 

[f_w]

Does anyone know if downstate puts out a list of people who are looking for roommates and apartments? If i don't get a single studio, I will have to start searching for an apartment, preferably park slope. How do students go about finding roommates? Please let me know.


There is a large blackboard on the ground floor of the school. This time of the year, there should be plenty of turnover.

Also, go to 7th Ave Park Slope and pick up the throwaway papers at the coffee shops. Check for postings on lampposts, craigslist etc.

The off-campus housing office is useless.

Some areas to look at:
Park Slope (above 5th ave, better 6th)
Prospect Heights (heterogeneous, before your rent, hang out on that street for a little while. one street might be fine, the next block is all section8)
Windsor Terrace (used to be working class, now fairly gentrified)
Kensington (so and so)
Along Ocean Parkway (there is a gigantic apartment building right at the beginning which is fairly decently maintained. They have 3bdrms that might be interesting if you can find 2 people)

 

[downstateguy]

Current students.

Would you recommend living on or off campus for your first year?

I'd recommend living on-campus. It provides some sense of community (about 1/2 your class will live on campus 1st year). After you meet some people, you'll probably get together with 1 or 2 classmates and share a place in Park Slope. That's what usually happens.

good luck.

p.s. If you're more than a couple years out of college, though, I'd recommend against it. Very much a "college-dorm" atmosphere that many older students don't like.

 

[eag]

When are the start dates for the summer program (if there is one), orientation, and the first day of classes? Thanks

 

[ilanahg]

Hey--

I'm starting DS in August and was wondering if you knew any fourth years who are vacating their apartment....we're having a lot of difficulty finding a place that fits the SUNY housing budget in Park Slope :-(

 

[ilanahg]

Do people live in manhattan? if so, where? I'm starting SUNY Downstate in the fall, but my fiancee is a rising fourth year at columbia med-- we're trying to split the difference. Any thoughts on affordable neighborhoods (i.e. UES?)

the train near campus is the subway (the 2/5 line). the LIRR does not run there and you'd have to connect trains. If you plan on living on long island (which I wouldn't recommend, since the LIE is a nightmare), you should drive in, especially since you already have a car. there is a surface lot available several blocks from campus staffed by downstate security; it's $4 a day and is open m-f. there is no "waitlist" for this, any student can by tickets for the lot. the parking garage, as someone mentioned, is only available for students doing clerkships. that's basically because parking is tight and the structure serves as parking for the hospital/med schools many employees.

if you're living in the dorms, you don't need a car since the school is across the street. going into manhattan is very convenient as the subway is close to school.

if you're living in park slope, you can take the 2/5 line to campus instead of driving in. this is basically because keeping a car in park slope can be a real pain, since street parking is hard to come by in that neighborhood (which is otherwise a very nice place to live).

street parking near campus is generally safe; the problem is that street parking is tough to come by, as alternate side parking rules apply 4 days/week in the neighborhood, and are from 8-9:30 am. Classes start at 9, so that's a problem. And while there's always the risk of your car getting scratched/dented/even stolen, that's the cost of living in the big city.