So I'm from a middle-tier medical school in Chicago and I would love to stay here for residency but I'm also open to relocating. At first, I was just going to do all my away rotations in Chicago to give me the best chance of matching here but after talking to others, I get the impression that while this may help my chances in Chicago, it can hurt my chances at programs outside of this city because it looks like I'm set on staying. So my question is, if I plan on doing my aways outside of chicago, how much will it hurt my chances of getting interviews from Chicago? Just to give you an idea of where I stand, I have a 250+ step, all clinical honors, AOA, 3-4 ENT first author pubs, and two derm papers currently getting worked on. THanks!
Strategically planning away rotations
- Thread starter sawtella
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If you do aways in other cities it does give the impression that you are willing to move, which is a positive. I can tell you that my away rotation was brought up at several interviews (In a positive way...I luckily awayed at an awesome program).
I also got interviews in the area I did my away at that I doubt I would have gotten without the experience.
I would do one in Chicago and one somewhere else fairly far away (just what I would do...you need to decide on your own).
I'd say that if you are specifically interested in more than one program in Chicago and you are sure you won't botch the away, then by all means go for it. However, if you just do them because you want to stay in Chicago in general...uh, not so much...branch out elsewhere. Again, only my opinions..grain of salt.
I also got interviews in the area I did my away at that I doubt I would have gotten without the experience.
I would do one in Chicago and one somewhere else fairly far away (just what I would do...you need to decide on your own).
I'd say that if you are specifically interested in more than one program in Chicago and you are sure you won't botch the away, then by all means go for it. However, if you just do them because you want to stay in Chicago in general...uh, not so much...branch out elsewhere. Again, only my opinions..grain of salt.
If $$ isn't an issue, consider doing an international dermatology rotation. It is a great interview discussion point and illustrates that you aren't afraid of new environments (ie moving to South Dakota for residency).
Other reasons why one should consider doing an international derm rotation:
- Less competition. I found that US dermatology departments are overwhelmed with med students between June through September. This dilution factor makes your chance of standing out, getting High Honors and impressing a Derm Attending enough to obtain a stellar letter of recommendation only so-so.
- Less IRB issues, especially in some countries (easier to publish case reports)
- More hands on experience. i was able to perform tons of biopsies and I even helped the plastic surgery team with a hand amputation so I could do some tissue harvesting.
- You get to meet dermatologists within a different academic and social environment. two thumbs up on this one.
An important Con:
- You lose a guaranteed interview slot. But your stats suggest to me that this is not going to be your limiting factor.
Overall... i would say an international rotation is a great choice. And, to go back to your original question, sawtella, it makes you look less attached to your specific geographic area.
Other reasons why one should consider doing an international derm rotation:
- Less competition. I found that US dermatology departments are overwhelmed with med students between June through September. This dilution factor makes your chance of standing out, getting High Honors and impressing a Derm Attending enough to obtain a stellar letter of recommendation only so-so.
- Less IRB issues, especially in some countries (easier to publish case reports)
- More hands on experience. i was able to perform tons of biopsies and I even helped the plastic surgery team with a hand amputation so I could do some tissue harvesting.
- You get to meet dermatologists within a different academic and social environment. two thumbs up on this one.
An important Con:
- You lose a guaranteed interview slot. But your stats suggest to me that this is not going to be your limiting factor.
Overall... i would say an international rotation is a great choice. And, to go back to your original question, sawtella, it makes you look less attached to your specific geographic area.
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also not a horrible idea to do away rotations at institutions with research fellows, just so you may have your foot in the door if you dont match (just because they didnt take you in the match wouldnt necessarily mean that they wouldnt take you for a fellowship)
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It sounds like you have a strong enough background to match without doing excessive away rotations. Make sure your home program gets to know you and pick one other program where you think you'll have a great experience and obtain good letters and might want to end up. If you want to stay in Chicago, then spend a month at your home program, and one at an away in your town (unless you have a strong desire to be abroad for a month).
When you start to do more than two dermatology electives in your senior year, you begin to have diminishing returns. Your time might be better spent in a specialty that will help you in the future, such as plastics, pathology, rheumatology, allergy, and so on, or one that you'll never get to do again. In the end, interviews are random, and you'll get them near - and far, regardless of whether you spend your senior year in Chicago or the boondocks.
When you start to do more than two dermatology electives in your senior year, you begin to have diminishing returns. Your time might be better spent in a specialty that will help you in the future, such as plastics, pathology, rheumatology, allergy, and so on, or one that you'll never get to do again. In the end, interviews are random, and you'll get them near - and far, regardless of whether you spend your senior year in Chicago or the boondocks.
thanks for the responses everyone. Now as far as picking an away rotation, what would you say is more important? picking a prestigious program where although you may not get an interview at that particular program, it may help you get interviews elsewhere just by virtue of rotating there, or picking a program that may be well less known but offers you a better chance at matching at? for example, if i'm looking into rotating in boston, should I go with BU or Harvard? thanks!
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In your case, since you'd probably rather stay in a geographic area, I'd target your rotation away from Chicago at a place that is a combination of a place you'd really like to be with the most prestigious name possible. I'm a fan of doing it for the experience, not necessarily to get the best letter/chances possible.
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This was my strategy for away rotations. I didn't really need more LORs and I just wanted to know if I would really be happy at the programs I rotated at. I had great experiences at both places and learned a ton of derm along the way i think this is very you dependent. my suggestion is to consider:
-- your language limitations and strengths,
-- your interests in dermatology (ie peds, path, mohs, etc)
-- who you or your colleagues already know,
-- your financial capacity, including your ability to pursue travel grants and sublet your apt
-- your family/relationship commitments
-- your ability to inspire a potential collaboration
if i could choose anywhere... i would try europe or japan right now. one could go try to network via the JSID or the ESDR. If you require an English speaking rotation, networking with the NZDS may be an ideal move.
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a little off-topic, but what is the general consensus on a research elective vs a clinical elective? seeing how I could use a few more derm projects, I was thinking about maybe doing an elective in just research but considering that it lasts for only a month, how much can you really expect to get done and is it even worth your time? also, does a research elective give you as much of a chance of getting an interview as a clinical elective does? thanks in advance.
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Depending on the situation, I generally think 1 month is not enough time to get anything significant accomplished. If you have a genuine interest in continuing research in a certain field in your career or if you share a specific interest with a faculty member performing research related to that, then do a research elective.
Otherwise, I think ones time is better spent doing a clinical elective. If you want projects, ask to help out with case reports or develop/write a review during your away time.
I did all of my aways in my region (mainly bc I didn't want to pay double rent, haha), and honestly, I don't think it made any difference outside of the region. Unless you get letters from every place you rotate at, how would other programs even know you ever went? Do your aways where you want to be or at a program you want to learn more about, whether it's in Chicago or at another cool program.
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Since my away was for credit, it was listed on my Dean's letter/MSPE (as well as the evaluation from the away rotation)
Most of my aways were done after my MSPE was written (in August), so they weren't all included. I don't think programs knew where I had rotated if I hadn't gotten a LOR there or mentioned it at my interview.
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I guess schools do it differently. I did my away in September and it was included on the MSPE for me. Something to ask the school ahead of time I guess.
Thanks for the replies everyone. I was thinking about doing an away at UW, because I would love to match into seattle. But as I was looking through the resident profiles, I couldn't help but to notice that more than 1/2 of them were former UW grads. Now I'm not sure how much stock I should put into this, but would you say this should be a red flag for someone who is an outsider trying to break into a new geographic area? I understand that rotating, even if you don't get an interview or match there, is still a worthwhile experience b/c of the connections you make, LORs, and etc..but for someone who is trying to rotate at a program that they can realistically match at, would you say that UW may not be my best bet?
I'm pretty late to the derm party, but I'll be applying next year to match (I'm an M3). Since I'm so late in the game at this point, I haven't even applied to any aways. What are my chances of obtaining an away rotation at this point? Are most deadlines passed?
I'm really hoping I'm not screwed at this point . . .
I'm really hoping I'm not screwed at this point . . .
sorry for the disruption. I'm actually not interested in derm, more interested in the not-so-competitive residencies of IM, EM, GS.
I couldn't in US school. But I can go to a top 10 med school in China (it's always ranked around 5-10), and there are 200 schools in China. I got accepted in many foreign schools, in some other small countries. but I love the schools in China. I also love to practice in US, where my fam is.
Chinese school only have 1 year of core rotations , 52 weeks, no elective rotations. I wonder what's the exact definition of away rotation? May I apply to some programs in US as a visiting student a couple years later and do 20 weeks of electives in my summer/winter breaks??
I'm a US citizen, no visa prob. I hope to get primary care or G. surg.
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This is the Dermatology board. Your question would be better answered in one of the other sub-forums (such as the Clinical Rotations board: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=19 ).
Bump.
does anyone have any experience with BU or tuft's derm program? if you could rotate at only one of those institutions, which one would you recommend? please feel free to PM me if you'd be more comfortable with that. thanks in advance!
i'm interested in learning more about tuft's derm program! please share if you have information....
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I was hoping some could share any feelings on the Chicago programs -- Loyola vs Rush? Or just in general, other derm programs that are good. By that I mean good program, but not hyper-competitive environment. It's going to be a stretch for me for derm as far as #s go, but I have really great LORs from top derm program directors, good clinical grades, and some other sig accomp while in med school. Looking for a program that considers the "whole package" and perhaps reads the whole application, not just sorts based on scores.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
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Ok so I have an away rotation scheduled for August. I'm thinking about doing a second away rotation somewhere in either October or November (I'm also doing a derm rotation at my home institution in July). So one home and two aways. Is that overkill?
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Depends who you ask, it would have been frowned upon by the deans at my school.
It seems par for the course in terms of students who have rotated through our clinic. I don't think doing 2 aways and 1 home (3 rotations total) is overkill so long as you can continue to be enthusiastic and interested throughout all rotations.
